'Crackdown has curbed graft'

[scorecard]

He said it would take some time to ensure that action taken against the wrongdoers was fair and transparent,

hmmm, I don't see anything that resembles transparency in this process...

You don't see anything transparent in the process.

You expect that every detail of every investigation going on right now will be made public immediately?

Even people accused with massive corruption are entitled to proper legal process, or had you conveniently forgotten that?

Have you considered that the police etc., people are also being careful to not reveal things that would alert other corrupt people to flee or attempt to intimidate or silence witnesses, etc?

On the other hand if all evidence and details was revealed immediately you would probably be the first to scream 'unfair' 'kangaroo court' etc.

[Thai at Heart]

Enough about the past elected government, let's get to the present problem--the military and the junta are corrupt. They are not going to clean up government, they're just going to re-direct the payments.

It's been obvious since shortly after the coup that the junta's interest in corruption was selective http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/. The trafficking scandal makes it clear that the corruption has been long running http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/830349-human-trafficking-crackdown-thai-army-officer-faces-13-charges/?p=9482741&hl=%2Bmanas.

However the corruption has long been entrenched in the military, it's fair to say it has become institutionalized. Competence in corruption has become a critical career skill and necessary for advancement:

"...Prayuth soon became a prominent member of the Eastern Tigers, a royalist military faction based in eastern Thailand. In the 1990s, Chambers said, the Eastern Tigers amassed considerable wealth by trading gems with Cambodian Khmer Rouge insurgents based along the two countries’ border, a racket which “directly benefited” the faction and some of its commanders. Within a decade, the Eastern Tigers dominated the Thai military."

The above is from a respected journal, you can find the source by doing an internet search on "Foreign Policy", "Prayuth" and "Eastern Tigers". The article is about Prayuth, but the title makes the moderators nervous so I can't provide a link.

Corruption is at least as entrenched in the military as in the government, however the military can see to it that it is never investigated. Expecting the military to eliminate corruption is like expecting Al Capone to eliminate bootlegging in prohibition era Chicago.

The very set up for a coup is corrupt in itself. The army is not some united amorphous bunch of blind loyalty to a the head man. Factions abound, and loyalties are BOUGHT. How do you think commanding officers in camps around the country get organised to move? They wait for the wonga to hit their accounts and then they move. A camp is a personal fiefdom to be bought.

[scorecard]

Banks don't prevent bank robberies by attempting to catch thieves after the robbery, they have security systems in place to make robbing the bank difficult and dangerous.

Honest governments don't prevent corruption by attempting to catch and prosecute corrupt officials after the fact, they have rules requiring transparency that make corrupt practices difficult and risky.

Unfortunately for Thailand, neither the military nor any political party wants transparency--not only do they not know how to govern in a transparent system, it would cost them their fortunes.

..............."nor any political party wants transparency"......................

At last we agree on something. I knew it would happen one day.

Actually if the governments of the day, around the world, suddenly became transparent, it would be very scary indeed.

Comparatively clean governments have laws mandating transparency. There are always people who will try to get around these laws, which is why there also must be routine audits and checks to catch these people. No government ever achieves zero corruption, but the governments with transparency requirements and mechanisms to enforce them keep corruption at a low level.

Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes. Also, only a military firmly under civilian control will allow an elected government to force transparency on it. So long as the military does not serve the elected government there is no hope of cleaning up the military.

A corrupt junta has no need to accommodate the people, which is why people who think the junta will eliminate corruption are dreaming.

"Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes."

The laugh of the month.

[heybruce]

Banks don't prevent bank robberies by attempting to catch thieves after the robbery, they have security systems in place to make robbing the bank difficult and dangerous.

Honest governments don't prevent corruption by attempting to catch and prosecute corrupt officials after the fact, they have rules requiring transparency that make corrupt practices difficult and risky.

Unfortunately for Thailand, neither the military nor any political party wants transparency--not only do they not know how to govern in a transparent system, it would cost them their fortunes.

..............."nor any political party wants transparency"......................

At last we agree on something. I knew it would happen one day.

Actually if the governments of the day, around the world, suddenly became transparent, it would be very scary indeed.

Comparatively clean governments have laws mandating transparency. There are always people who will try to get around these laws, which is why there also must be routine audits and checks to catch these people. No government ever achieves zero corruption, but the governments with transparency requirements and mechanisms to enforce them keep corruption at a low level.

Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes. Also, only a military firmly under civilian control will allow an elected government to force transparency on it. So long as the military does not serve the elected government there is no hope of cleaning up the military.

A corrupt junta has no need to accommodate the people, which is why people who think the junta will eliminate corruption are dreaming.

"Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes."

The laugh of the month.

I take it you have greater faith that a corrupt junta will become transparent and govern without corruption. Or perhaps you just prefer life under a corrupt military government.

[tbthailand]

Banks don't prevent bank robberies by attempting to catch thieves after the robbery, they have security systems in place to make robbing the bank difficult and dangerous.

Honest governments don't prevent corruption by attempting to catch and prosecute corrupt officials after the fact, they have rules requiring transparency that make corrupt practices difficult and risky.

Unfortunately for Thailand, neither the military nor any political party wants transparency--not only do they not know how to govern in a transparent system, it would cost them their fortunes.

..............."nor any political party wants transparency"......................

At last we agree on something. I knew it would happen one day.

Actually if the governments of the day, around the world, suddenly became transparent, it would be very scary indeed.

Comparatively clean governments have laws mandating transparency. There are always people who will try to get around these laws, which is why there also must be routine audits and checks to catch these people. No government ever achieves zero corruption, but the governments with transparency requirements and mechanisms to enforce them keep corruption at a low level.

Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes. Also, only a military firmly under civilian control will allow an elected government to force transparency on it. So long as the military does not serve the elected government there is no hope of cleaning up the military.

A corrupt junta has no need to accommodate the people, which is why people who think the junta will eliminate corruption are dreaming.

"Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes."

The laugh of the month.

I don't get you - you seem to understand about... Hmmm, ... zippo.

[billd766]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

[smedly]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

Totally agree, the problem with forums like these are the inability of some people to have a discussion without taking it to a personal level,

rule No1....Discuss the Topic or reply not the poster

There have been many a good thread on here ruined by people who just cannot resist commenting on the poster, the discussion soon goes down a rat hole with a tirade of personal insults, those that should be acting on it fail to see it.

Although the comment above "another one who understands nothing" seems on the face of it to be reasonable - it quite frankly is not, it is an insulting personal attack against another poster who has a differing opinion, it is IMO a flaming post and contributes nothing to the discussion and should be removed, what he basically said was - interpretation - "you are stupid" to a other poster

[tbthailand]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

Totally agree, the problem with forums like these are the inability of some people to have a discussion without taking it to a personal level,

rule No1....Discuss the Topic or reply not the poster

There have been many a good thread on here ruined by people who just cannot resist commenting on the poster, the discussion soon goes down a rat hole with a tirade of personal insults, those that should be acting on it fail to see it.

Although the comment above "another one who understands nothing" seems on the face of it to be reasonable - it quite frankly is not, it is an insulting personal attack against another poster who has a differing opinion, it is IMO a flaming post and contributes nothing to the discussion and should be removed, what he basically said was - interpretation - "you are stupid" to a other poster

hey guys, He wasn't offering an opinion at that time as you claim - the poster was asking Banzai to explain something that would likely end in an immediate ban.

Either the poster knew that and was baiting or he didn't know that in which case the comment was completely accurate.

[rubl]

..............."nor any political party wants transparency"......................

At last we agree on something. I knew it would happen one day.

Actually if the governments of the day, around the world, suddenly became transparent, it would be very scary indeed.

Comparatively clean governments have laws mandating transparency. There are always people who will try to get around these laws, which is why there also must be routine audits and checks to catch these people. No government ever achieves zero corruption, but the governments with transparency requirements and mechanisms to enforce them keep corruption at a low level.

Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes. Also, only a military firmly under civilian control will allow an elected government to force transparency on it. So long as the military does not serve the elected government there is no hope of cleaning up the military.

A corrupt junta has no need to accommodate the people, which is why people who think the junta will eliminate corruption are dreaming.

"Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes."

The laugh of the month.

I take it you have greater faith that a corrupt junta will become transparent and govern without corruption. Or perhaps you just prefer life under a corrupt military government.

Absolutely, but back to Thailand ... ... the junta instated government seems better at curbing corruption than the previous government which had it's PM state to take special care of corruption, but shies away from responsibility and accountability. Must be part of the 'electoral mandate', just like in our own democratic countries where politicians can do what they want once elected.

Edited June 10, 2015 by rubl

[Banzai99]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

Totally agree, the problem with forums like these are the inability of some people to have a discussion without taking it to a personal level,

rule No1....Discuss the Topic or reply not the poster

There have been many a good thread on here ruined by people who just cannot resist commenting on the poster, the discussion soon goes down a rat hole with a tirade of personal insults, those that should be acting on it fail to see it.

Although the comment above "another one who understands nothing" seems on the face of it to be reasonable - it quite frankly is not, it is an insulting personal attack against another poster who has a differing opinion, it is IMO a flaming post and contributes nothing to the discussion and should be removed, what he basically said was - interpretation - "you are stupid" to a other poster

hey guys, He wasn't offering an opinion at that time as you claim - the poster was asking Banzai to explain something that would likely end in an immediate ban.

Either the poster knew that and was baiting or he didn't know that in which case the comment was completely accurate.

Exactly.

And I would suggest others do some research into the case, then they will understand why I or anybody else here will be unable to comment on it, and if you don't already know why, then I repeat, you know nothing.

Asking me to explain it to you which would result in my immediate banning is a little unfair.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Banzai99

[heybruce]

"Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes."

The laugh of the month.

I take it you have greater faith that a corrupt junta will become transparent and govern without corruption. Or perhaps you just prefer life under a corrupt military government.

Absolutely, but back to Thailand ... ... the junta instated government seems better at curbing corruption than the previous government which had it's PM state to take special care of corruption, but shies away from responsibility and accountability. Must be part of the 'electoral mandate', just like in our own democratic countries where politicians can do what they want once elected.

Clearly you did not read my earlier post.

Enough about the past elected government, let's get to the present problem--the military and the junta are corrupt. They are not going to clean up government, they're just going to re-direct the payments.

It's been obvious since shortly after the coup that the junta's interest in corruption was selective http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/. The trafficking scandal makes it clear that the corruption has been long running http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/830349-human-trafficking-crackdown-thai-army-officer-faces-13-charges/?p=9482741&hl=%2Bmanas.

However the corruption has long been entrenched in the military, it's fair to say it has become institutionalized. Competence in corruption has become a critical career skill and necessary for advancement:

"...Prayuth soon became a prominent member of the Eastern Tigers, a royalist military faction based in eastern Thailand. In the 1990s, Chambers said, the Eastern Tigers amassed considerable wealth by trading gems with Cambodian Khmer Rouge insurgents based along the two countries’ border, a racket which “directly benefited” the faction and some of its commanders. Within a decade, the Eastern Tigers dominated the Thai military."

The above is from a respected journal, you can find the source by doing an internet search on "Foreign Policy", "Prayuth" and "Eastern Tigers". The article is about Prayuth, but the title makes the moderators nervous so I can't provide a link.

Corruption is at least as entrenched in the military as in the government, however the military can see to it that it is never investigated. Expecting the military to eliminate corruption is like expecting Al Capone to eliminate bootlegging in prohibition era Chicago.

[Banzai99]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

It cannot be discussed here, it is is a bannable topic if he doesn't know that then he doesn't understand the case wouldn't you agree ?

Asking me to explain it and getting an immediate ban is a little unfair to say the least.

[rijb]

Why do I get the feeling that... whoever smelt it dealt it.

[Banzai99]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

Oh and you seem to have forgotten about this gent the former head of the police CSD General Pongpat Chayapan whose jail time is now up to 31 years. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Ex-crimebuster-has-more-assets-seized-30258636.html.

With many more arrests, dismissals and investigations underway into the conduct of high ranking officers and civil servants.

You do realise why Pongpat was investigated don't you, c'mon Robby you can't be that blind.

Have you not seen the scale of corruption that man has accomplished ? You are the blind one if you would not accept that he has been corrupt beyond any normal scale.

You go on in your next post to rant about red and yellow while in this one intimating that he has only been investigated because of political connections. And you somehow prefer believe that he should not have been investigated because of those connections.

Blinded by red.

Anyway I posted in answer to the "Non existent" of the previous poster and your post has confirmed that I was right.

Yes he amassed an absolute fortune, but he didn't do it overnight, but he was untouchable before, then all of a sudden he had a big target on his back, but we can't talk about this on here without getting banned, and Blinded by Red I don't understand, i'm Farang, I'm not involved in Thai Politics, you may be Thai, I don't know and you may be a Yellow or a Red again I don't know, but I am neither, I'm a Farang who has no say what happens in Thailand.

The same as 99% of Thai people now have no say what happens in Thailand, not that it ever made any difference to them when they did, the rich stayed rich the poor stayed poor, the Army Generals and Police Chiefs or 3rd world and Developing countries are allowed to get away with mass corruption for a reason, they keep the Rich and Powerful, Rich and Powerful by controlling the men in uniforms who can shoot their own countrymen by the issue of a simple order, it tends to keep people in their place, a shoot to kill policy normally does the trick and puts down dissent, or just roll out the tanks on the streets, the poor are still poor the rich are still rich, if in your wildest dreams you think a change of PM will end corruption in any country, let alone Thailand, then I think you're wrong, certain people will be in for the chop because they backed the wrong horse, those who chose sides more wisely It's business as usual.

And of course you still have a group of untouchables, no matter what they do, always have, always will.

Seems anyone who disagrees with you is labelled a Red, no matter that the subject has nothing to do with Red or Yellow, strange, myopic way of thinking.

You come across as rather intelligent, and you do make some good points, and I have enjoyed many of your informative posts on this forum, but you sort of spoil many of the posts with the 'You're a Red " obsession, get over it Robby, It's history.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Banzai99

[mikemac]

I don't think you will get an answer to that as I would assume he does not want to get banned or arrested!!!!

If you can't or don't want to answer these questions don't bring them up.

Much like the morons who keep harping on about the Amart and the Elite and when you ask who they are their answer is - "I will get into trouble if I answer that".

I can tell you now all you Thaksin fans and supporters who rave on about the "Elite" are fools because what the heck do you think the Shinawatras are ? Struggling Issan rice farmers ?

The only difference between the "Amart" and the Shinawatras is the Shins are out-numbered and have worn out their welcome in Thailand.

[Banzai99]

In a few Years all of the bickering on here will be replaced with, ah, now I see why The head of the Army and his chosen people were put in complete and unquestionable control of Thailand at that time in history, it all makes sense to me now.

Yet you won't be able to really discuss it without getting banned, ThaiVisa has to observe the laws of Thailand too, even if they are not based in Thailand, they can be banned from Thai servers, which is not good for business, so for this Forums sake, I think this issue of crackdowns and red this and yellow that should not be encouraged, yet........

These discussions are sometimes started by ThaiVisa staff for the amount of traffic they recieve, they know arguments will ensue, but every hit is revenue, and it's a business so it's understandable, the Mods can only do so much, and whatever they do, they will never please everyone, I think it's up to us, as responsible members of this forum to self moderate our response at times, I'll include myself in that group, cos when I drink I tend to get drunk and I spout off some BS, but I'm mostly sober ( like now).

[billd766]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

It cannot be discussed here, it is is a bannable topic if he doesn't know that then he doesn't understand the case wouldn't you agree ?

Asking me to explain it and getting an immediate ban is a little unfair to say the least.

I disagree entirely with what you have said. I said nothing about the topic at all.

It is your attitude that says because he does not know about the topic means he understands nothing at all when like many people he does not know about that particular topic.

I did not ask you to explain the topic and get banned but frankly your attitude is not good towards other posters.

[Banzai99]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

It cannot be discussed here, it is is a bannable topic if he doesn't know that then he doesn't understand the case wouldn't you agree ?

Asking me to explain it and getting an immediate ban is a little unfair to say the least.

I disagree entirely with what you have said. I said nothing about the topic at all.

It is your attitude that says because he does not know about the topic means he understands nothing at all when like many people he does not know about that particular topic.

I did not ask you to explain the topic and get banned but frankly your attitude is not good towards other posters.

I'm surprised you want to carry this on, almost at a personal level, and it also seems you have no understanding as why the present situation in Thailand exists, amazing Thaivisa members. Maybe you should put in a little research outside ThaiVisa before judging me as arrogant.

Best you leave it where it stands Bill, or we'll both be getting banned. Peace.

Read the post before yours Bill, get a cold one and relax, you know it makes sense.

It's just an anonymous forum, don't take it so seriously, you wouldn't slag off a 6'3" 260 Pound guy in a bar would you, no, nor would I......555

Edited June 10, 2015 by Banzai99

[phoenixdoglover]

Regarding the "knows nothing" kerfuffle...

If you are relying solely on your personal experiences in Thailand, and the news posted on TVF, to develop your mental model about "what is happening in Thailand, and why?", then you may know some things, but you do not know enough.

There are critical subject areas that are never reported in the Thai press, and are almost never discussed in TVF.

Moreover, the Thai press is terrible at investigative journalism. Mostly, they just go to official events, collect quotes, and regurgitate.

Thus, if you wish to know more, and have a more accurate understanding, you have to seek out different sources of enlightenment. Sources outside of Thailand.

If you don't want to do that, fine. Nobody is forcing you and there are only so many hours in a day. Just steel yourself against the likely abuse from those arrogant guys who put in a bigger effort.

[Banzai99]

Regarding the "knows nothing" kerfuffle...

If you are relying solely on your personal experiences in Thailand, and the news posted on TVF, to develop your mental model about "what is happening in Thailand, and why?", then you may know some things, but you do not know enough.

There are critical subject areas that are never reported in the Thai press, and are almost never discussed in TVF.

Moreover, the Thai press is terrible at investigative journalism. Mostly, they just go to official events, collect quotes, and regurgitate.

Thus, if you wish to know more, and have a more accurate understanding, you have to seek out different sources of enlightenment. Sources outside of Thailand.

If you don't want to do that, fine. Nobody is forcing you and there are only so many hours in a day. Just steel yourself against the likely abuse from those arrogant guys who put in a bigger effort.

Spot on.

At last, someone who has a clue.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Banzai99

[smedly]

I'm surprised you want to carry this on, almost at a personal level, and it also seems you have no understanding as why the present situation in Thailand exists, amazing Thaivisa members. Maybe you should put in a little research outside ThaiVisa before judging me as arrogant.

Best you leave it where it stands Bill, or we'll both be getting banned. Peace.

Read the post before yours Bill, get a cold one and relax, you know it makes sense.

It's just an anonymous forum, don't take it so seriously, you wouldn't slag off a 6'3" 260 Pound guy in a bar would you, no, nor would I......555

Look mate - many on here think they are right and others are wrong, this forum allows people to discuss and give opinions - as to who is right or wrong only time will tell

For now, all people have here are opinions based on what they see and how they interpret what is going on.

I am willing to give the Good General a chance because even though he may have a few chinks in his armour he seems to be heading in the right direction and doing what nobody else has attempted in Thailand, I do know one thing for sure and need nobody to convince me or tell me different -

- the removal of PTP was required

- reforms before elections are required

- a constitution that holds office holders responsible and accountable for their actions and enforces the law on everyone equally

- powerful independent agencies and an effective police force that upholds the law is required

- any future bills of certain types and constitutional amendments must get 2/3 majority in the lower house

- and those suspected of corruption must be brought to the courts and receive severe penalties if convicted

Can this administration deliver on that - only time will tell

[kaorop]

I'm surprised you want to carry this on, almost at a personal level, and it also seems you have no understanding as why the present situation in Thailand exists, amazing Thaivisa members. Maybe you should put in a little research outside ThaiVisa before judging me as arrogant.

Best you leave it where it stands Bill, or we'll both be getting banned. Peace.

Read the post before yours Bill, get a cold one and relax, you know it makes sense.

It's just an anonymous forum, don't take it so seriously, you wouldn't slag off a 6'3" 260 Pound guy in a bar would you, no, nor would I......555

Look mate - many on here think they are right and others are wrong, this forum allows people to discuss and give opinions - as to who is right or wrong only time will tell

For now, all people have here are opinions based on what they see and how they interpret what is going on.

I am willing to give the Good General a chance because even though he may have a few chinks in his armour he seems to be heading in the right direction and doing what nobody else has attempted in Thailand, I do know one thing for sure and need nobody to convince me or tell me different -

- the removal of PTP was required

- reforms before elections are required

- a constitution that holds office holders responsible and accountable for their actions and enforces the law on everyone equally

- powerful independent agencies and an effective police force that upholds the law is required

- any future bills of certain types and constitutional amendments must get 2/3 majority in the lower house

- and those suspected of corruption must be brought to the courts and receive severe penalties if convicted

Can this administration deliver on that - only time will tell

a pig with new lipstick is still just a pig

18 coups and running tells you what may be delivered

i do hope he does get the country halfway on track, but i dont hold high ones.

[Banzai99]

I'm surprised you want to carry this on, almost at a personal level, and it also seems you have no understanding as why the present situation in Thailand exists, amazing Thaivisa members. Maybe you should put in a little research outside ThaiVisa before judging me as arrogant.

Best you leave it where it stands Bill, or we'll both be getting banned. Peace.

Read the post before yours Bill, get a cold one and relax, you know it makes sense.

It's just an anonymous forum, don't take it so seriously, you wouldn't slag off a 6'3" 260 Pound guy in a bar would you, no, nor would I......555

Look mate - many on here think they are right and others are wrong, this forum allows people to discuss and give opinions - as to who is right or wrong only time will tell

For now, all people have here are opinions based on what they see and how they interpret what is going on.

I am willing to give the Good General a chance because even though he may have a few chinks in his armour he seems to be heading in the right direction and doing what nobody else has attempted in Thailand, I do know one thing for sure and need nobody to convince me or tell me different -

- the removal of PTP was required

- reforms before elections are required

- a constitution that holds office holders responsible and accountable for their actions and enforces the law on everyone equally

- powerful independent agencies and an effective police force that upholds the law is required

- any future bills of certain types and constitutional amendments must get 2/3 majority in the lower house

- and those suspected of corruption must be brought to the courts and receive severe penalties if convicted

Can this administration deliver on that - only time will tell

I'm not allowed by Law to comment my real thoughts, then again , neither are you, your Forum icon is for gallantry so lets call it a gallant draw.......Cheers mate.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Banzai99

[rubl]

I'm surprised you want to carry this on, almost at a personal level, and it also seems you have no understanding as why the present situation in Thailand exists, amazing Thaivisa members. Maybe you should put in a little research outside ThaiVisa before judging me as arrogant.

Best you leave it where it stands Bill, or we'll both be getting banned. Peace.

Read the post before yours Bill, get a cold one and relax, you know it makes sense.

It's just an anonymous forum, don't take it so seriously, you wouldn't slag off a 6'3" 260 Pound guy in a bar would you, no, nor would I......555

Look mate - many on here think they are right and others are wrong, this forum allows people to discuss and give opinions - as to who is right or wrong only time will tell

For now, all people have here are opinions based on what they see and how they interpret what is going on.

I am willing to give the Good General a chance because even though he may have a few chinks in his armour he seems to be heading in the right direction and doing what nobody else has attempted in Thailand, I do know one thing for sure and need nobody to convince me or tell me different -

- the removal of PTP was required

- reforms before elections are required

- a constitution that holds office holders responsible and accountable for their actions and enforces the law on everyone equally

- powerful independent agencies and an effective police force that upholds the law is required

- any future bills of certain types and constitutional amendments must get 2/3 majority in the lower house

- and those suspected of corruption must be brought to the courts and receive severe penalties if convicted

Can this administration deliver on that - only time will tell

I'm not allowed by Law to comment my real thoughts, then again , neither are you, your Forum icon is for gallantry so lets call it a gallant draw.......Cheers mate.

Which law would that be and in how far would your comments really relate to "crackdown has curbed graft'?

[billd766]

quote "Another one who understands nothing."

How incredibly arrogant of you to say something like that.

Have you ever met or talked to him? Do you in fact know anything about him other than what he posts on TVF?

It cannot be discussed here, it is is a bannable topic if he doesn't know that then he doesn't understand the case wouldn't you agree ?

Asking me to explain it and getting an immediate ban is a little unfair to say the least.

I disagree entirely with what you have said. I said nothing about the topic at all.

It is your attitude that says because he does not know about the topic means he understands nothing at all when like many people he does not know about that particular topic.

I did not ask you to explain the topic and get banned but frankly your attitude is not good towards other posters.

I'm surprised you want to carry this on, almost at a personal level, and it also seems you have no understanding as why the present situation in Thailand exists, amazing Thaivisa members. Maybe you should put in a little research outside ThaiVisa before judging me as arrogant.

Best you leave it where it stands Bill, or we'll both be getting banned. Peace.

Read the post before yours Bill, get a cold one and relax, you know it makes sense.

It's just an anonymous forum, don't take it so seriously, you wouldn't slag off a 6'3" 260 Pound guy in a bar would you, no, nor would I......555

I will, if you will.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't think you will get an answer to that as I would assume he does not want to get banned or arrested!!!!

If you can't or don't want to answer these questions don't bring them up.

Much like the morons who keep harping on about the Amart and the Elite and when you ask who they are their answer is - "I will get into trouble if I answer that".

I can tell you now all you Thaksin fans and supporters who rave on about the "Elite" are fools because what the heck do you think the Shinawatras are ? Struggling Issan rice farmers ?

The only difference between the "Amart" and the Shinawatras is the Shins are out-numbered and have worn out their welcome in Thailand.

If you think the Bangkok ammart consider Thaksin to be their equal, or part of the gang you are very naive.

Having a boat load of cash doesn't automatically buy your way into that club.

[rubl]

I don't think you will get an answer to that as I would assume he does not want to get banned or arrested!!!!

If you can't or don't want to answer these questions don't bring them up.

Much like the morons who keep harping on about the Amart and the Elite and when you ask who they are their answer is - "I will get into trouble if I answer that".

I can tell you now all you Thaksin fans and supporters who rave on about the "Elite" are fools because what the heck do you think the Shinawatras are ? Struggling Issan rice farmers ?

The only difference between the "Amart" and the Shinawatras is the Shins are out-numbered and have worn out their welcome in Thailand.

If you think the Bangkok ammart consider Thaksin to be their equal, or part of the gang you are very naive.

Having a boat load of cash doesn't automatically buy your way into that club.

Not that any of this has much to do with the topic, but is there a "non-Bangkok Amart" ?

[phoenixdoglover]

Lese Majeste is a consideration for TVF, so rules have been set to limit our discussion, which is a reasonable policy.

Accordingly, the picture painted here is somewhat incomplete.

I am sure this applies to most of the items we do discuss regularly.

Have I danced enough along this line?

[rubl]

Lese Majeste is a consideration for TVF, so rules have been set to limit our discussion, which is a reasonable policy.

Accordingly, the picture painted here is somewhat incomplete.

I am sure this applies to most of the items we do discuss regularly.

Have I danced enough along this line?

Absolutely, you're ready for a prime time show.

As American you probably never had much exposure to corruption anyway as everyone knows Americans don't condone corruption and neither does their government.

Edited June 11, 2015 by rubl

[heybruce]

Lese Majeste is a consideration for TVF, so rules have been set to limit our discussion, which is a reasonable policy.

Accordingly, the picture painted here is somewhat incomplete.

I am sure this applies to most of the items we do discuss regularly.

Have I danced enough along this line?

Absolutely, you're ready for a prime time show.

As American you probably never had much exposure to corruption anyway as everyone knows Americans don't condone corruption and neither does their government.

In America there has never been a military coup staged by an army faction that got rich from illegal trade with the Khmer Rouge. I'm not aware of any kind of corruption that comes close to that.