Will lack of education be the downfall of Thailand?

[rayongchelsea]

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

Okay, so let me understand this... You think it is good for Thailand and Thai-people that their education system way is behind most other countries? Do you think it is good that a large part of the population can not read and write? Is it good parenting to just accept a bad educational system, that gives your child no real options in life?

Yes, Thailand has a nearly full employment rate. And what does most of the jobs really consist of? Sitting on a chair sleeping or playing Candy Crush all day. Do you really think education is something unimportant in todays world? You sound like you believe education is something only White-persons value... Are you serious?

And by the way... Not all Thai people are happy. I know many Thai-people who are sad and frustrated, that they are forced to work shitty jobs for the rest of their life, because they never had access to a good educational system. Just because they smile when you pay them, does not mean they are happy.

You wrote, "Yes, Thailand has a nearly full employment rate. And what does most of the jobs really consist of? Sitting on a chair sleeping or playing Candy Crush all day."

Based on that statement I have arrived at two conclusions. 1. You don't know much about Thailand and 2. Your purpose in this thread was to denigrate Thailand and really has nothing to do with education.

​I think I can show indubitably that you know almost nothing about the Thai economy. 1. 40% of the hard drives in the world are made in Thailand. 2. As of 2012, the Thailand automotive industry was the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World. The Thailand industry has an annual output of near 1.5 million vehicles (mostly commercial vehicles), more than countries such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, Czech Republic, and Turkey.

Those millions of cars and hard drives can not be made while sleeping or playing candy crush.

Lets take a look at a country close by, Malaysia. Tourists' naked photo shoot atop Malaysian peak blamed for major earthquake as locals claim nudity angered 'mountain spirits. Now that is dead dumb.

Try googling the ten most worthless currencies in the world and what countries come up? Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia and Vietnam. 19,327 Dong to the Dollar.

I can tell you without a doubt that the Thai education system is better than Detroit or DC (I was in a D mood).

I think there should be a rule that before you are allowed to comment on the Thai education system that you should know something about it; like teaching in a Thai college for a few years.

And before you comment on Thailand's economy that you should realize that there are about 100 countries in the world that have a GDP per capita less than Thailand. That means that more than half the countries in the world play candy crush and sleep on the job more than Thailand,

Just to make some things clear... I am NOT trying to say something bad about Thailand or Thai-people. If I hated Thailand, I would not live here and I would properly never had married a Thai-woman and have had a child with her. Furthermore, I would for sure never had been coming to Thailand for more than 20 years, if I hated the place or the people.

The fact is, that the Thai-educational system is very bad and since education a very important part of a countries development, then that is not good for Thailand. So the reason why I am worried about the educational system here, is actually because I worry and feel sorry for Thailand, because it will effect many people here. In other words I worry, because I like Thailand.

Why is it that so many Farangs here in Thailand start thinking like Thais after a while living here? All of a sudden it is not allowed to face the simple facts or criticises anything that is related to Thailand or Thai-people. If some Farang says something "wrong" or "bad", then the typical response is "Then why don't you just leave, if you do not like it here?"... I will never understand why some people can not see, that the only way for something to improve, like e.g. the educational system here, is to FACE THE FACTS and not just try to find excuses. Because that is exactly the Thai way of reacting and it just does not solve problems or provide progress for neither the country or the people.

Yes, there are worse countries than Thailand in the world, but if Thailand does not face reality then at some point in the future, there will not be many countries worse than Thailand. And that is exactly my point. Thailand is moving backwards while other surrounding countries are moving forward. Hiding from the facts (Thai-Style), does not solve the problems or make them go away.

If you really cared and knew something about Thailand, then you would worry too. Especially, if you had children here.

Oh... and by the way... I actually have a teachers degree, have been guest teacher at many universities here and my wife also has a teenage son in the Thai-school system. I think I know just a bit about the educational system here or at least the level of it.

Foreigners who have a vested interest here, family children etc..and recognize that the education system is poor have every right and duty to criticize, it is not Thai bashing..it is a country they care about

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Also the whole setup just benefits the richer Thais etc...

Overall couldn't agree more.

[rayongchelsea]

" As of 2012, the Thailand automotive industry was the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World. The Thailand industry has an annual output of near 1.5 million vehicles (mostly commercial vehicles), more than countries such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, Czech Republic, and Turkey"

There is no Thai automotive industry.

There are no Thai cars.. ( except maybe tuk tuks?)

Automotive industries from developed countries are taking advantage of Thailand's cheap uneducated labor to assemble their products for a fraction of the cost of assempl in their home countries.

Most motorcycles are produced here for the same reason..

.exploiting the cheap uneducated labor available here in Thailand.

I read recently that many Thais believe that FORD is a Thai car company! ( they are assembled here, right?)

Does Singapore have an auto industry? Hong Kong? How about most Euro countries, do they all have internationally recognized autos? Is there an Aussie brand auto? You're nit-picking. Would you rather Thailand not manufacture cars at all?

It's not just about cheap labor, otherwise manufacturers would be building cars in Somalia. Thailand has the infrastructure and workforce to support major manufacturing. But I'm sure anything positive about Thailand offends you.

Your argument is a good one, but because you always so one sided when discussing anything they loose credibility..why add the last sentence..

People must see your name and just switch off, the same with that other guy " something 69", you need to be more balanced..

There is a great manufacturing base here in Thailand, although primarily low skilled.

There are many positives about Thailand, but this topic ain't one of them.

[duanebigsby]

" As of 2012, the Thailand automotive industry was the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World. The Thailand industry has an annual output of near 1.5 million vehicles (mostly commercial vehicles), more than countries such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, Czech Republic, and Turkey"

There is no Thai automotive industry.

There are no Thai cars.. ( except maybe tuk tuks?)

Automotive industries from developed countries are taking advantage of Thailand's cheap uneducated labor to assemble their products for a fraction of the cost of assempl in their home countries.

Most motorcycles are produced here for the same reason..

.exploiting the cheap uneducated labor available here in Thailand.

I read recently that many Thais believe that FORD is a Thai car company! ( they are assembled here, right?)

Does Singapore have an auto industry? Hong Kong? How about most Euro countries, do they all have internationally recognized autos? Is there an Aussie brand auto? You're nit-picking. Would you rather Thailand not manufacture cars at all?

It's not just about cheap labor, otherwise manufacturers would be building cars in Somalia. Thailand has the infrastructure and workforce to support major manufacturing. But I'm sure anything positive about Thailand offends you.

Yes, there is Holden, an Aussie brand auto.....General Motors Holden (GMH).

And Holden is a GM subsidiary. It produces a few models themselves, but rely heavily on GM products manufactured elsewhere including Thailand.

[duanebigsby]

The jobs in the car factories are generally low-skill. The middle and top management is usually Japanese.

This might change if education was better.

I wouldn't say low skill, I'd say medium. That is exactly how autoworkers are all over the world. Japan, Germany, US cars are built by medium skilled workers. What is wrong with that?

Only a very few people in the West or here are going to have management jobs. In Canada all the middle and upper management at Hyundai are Koreans.

[MaeJoMTB]

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Mine go to Thai government schools,

Speaking two languages fluently (English and Thai) is enough of an advantage for my children.

Most kids attending western schools never manage that.

[sickwaterbuffalo2]

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Mine go to Thai government schools,

Speaking two languages fluently (English and Thai) is enough of an advantage for my children.

Most kids attending western schools never manage that.

Strange i live in Belgium and speak Dutch,French,English and some German and went to government schools and most Thai woman i know married to fellow country men who have young Thai kids from former marriages or relationships with Thai men wont nothing else then bring their kids to Europe to get a decent education.

[mike324]

Cars are not made by countries they are made by international industrial concerns that are based in many countries. China can be as proud of Jaguar as anyone. It is not a country thing anymore. Not even the American sailors racing for the America's cup are from America! So you can forget about the national identity it went the way of the wind in sailboat racing. (We can debate this forever but the America's cup is the oldest trophy in Yachting history and a source of pride to Americans for a hundred years and it's now bogus.)

Do you think Thai education just got bad and Vietnamese and Burmese education just got good? The Thais are smarter than the Vietnamese and the Burmese that's why they have the bucks and the Vietnamese are still living in poverty.

Do you think thousands of wealthy educated Thai people are rushing to retire in the UK?

Thailand is not the UK. All those folks who want it to be like the UK should go back to the UK. All those who like Thailand better should come to Thailand.

You want to change Thailand but if you really liked Thailand you would not want to change it.

In the 1930's Thai women didn't wear tops and they were just fine and cool. Some nut wanted to make Siam just like the West so he mandated that Thai women wear tops. Now are you happy?

Just leave the Siamese alone. If you want to change someone go colonize India or something.

Well perhaps your view on car production is different from mine. You are entitled to be proud that a BMW is made in Thailand and boast about it. But its different than people boasting about that BMW is a German brand quality.

Thai education got bad because the country stop moving forward. Thais may be more developed due to the government, but they are not necessary smarter. You can keep on thinking that Thais are superior to their neighbor, just like a typical snobby Thai attitude looking down on your neighbors.

I know Thailand is not the UK, and what makes you think that I am even a westerner to begin with.

"You want to change Thailand but if you really liked Thailand you would not want to change it"

Thank you for that statement, that is exactly the same mentality why Thailand is moving backwards, nobody wants and accepts change.

Why don't you ask you mom or grandma if they want walk around topless? Why are you still embracing western culture and technology? or heck, why are you even on TV?

Why can't you admit and accept that Thai education system is a failure and students are getting dumber? lose of face? hard to swallow the truth?

Thailand has one of the highest education budgets in the world, and the highest by a big margin comparing to all the other ministries in Thailand such as social, economic, etc. Yet all the money is lost through corruption with nothing being done to overhaul the system.

It is up to Thais to make the change and voice their opinion, sadly most Thais don't care or want to do much about it too! Its only the foreigners who wants Thais to get better because they see how much better this society can and could have been, how ironic!

You are talking about too much stuff to carry on a intelligent debate. A lot of the stuff you are saying I agree with like the corruption and misspent money.

Thailand is much like a spouse. Many people get married and then want to change their spouse. As in Los, "now that we are married you will have to stop drinking so much." What's up with that. I was a drunk when you married me.

Many people who came to Thailand from the West in the 1930's did not want their teenage daughters to go topless. I think they should have stayed home. Love me love my dog.

I came here not to change the place but to appreciate it as it is. Whatever the Thai people want is OK with me. If I don't like it I'll leave.

I would not have colonized Burma to improve them either; I think that is terrible. I would not have invaded Vietnam. I would not have colonized Laos or Cambodia.

I think Western influence in South East Asia has sucked big time.

I'm talking too much stuff to carry on an intelligent debate? But you intelligent debate and topic revolves around malaysia, topless women, spouse, Burma, Vietnam. All my points were on topic regarding to Thailand and Education.

I don't see why its so hard for you to accept change for Thai society, what many are preaching here applies to any developing country. Its not about westerners coming here to try to change things. Its about progression and evolving to keep up, even the Thais want change and better society, but the thing that's holding them back are law enforcement and politics.

I'll just end it here as my not so intelligent debate does not involve around dogs and colonization that you keep on preachings about.

[buhi]

Was just having a very good open talk with my son; he is eleven coming on twelve.

He asked me am I growing much taller now.

I told him he was as he was approaching puberty.

Our discussion continued and I reminded him of the facts I had already taught him and asked if his school was as open as I with sex education.

He replied mostly, but not quite like you.

It is a private school.

He told me that girls get taller faster than boys.

I replied that was not always true, but girls do reach puberty earlier than boys generally.

It was a wonderful open discussion, one I will treasure.

Flamers off you go!

Edited June 13, 2015 by buhi

[MaeJoMTB]

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Mine go to Thai government schools,

Speaking two languages fluently (English and Thai) is enough of an advantage for my children.

Most kids attending western schools never manage that.

Strange i live in Belgium and speak Dutch,French,English and some German and went to government schools and most Thai woman i know married to fellow country men who have young Thai kids from former marriages or relationships with Thai men wont nothing else then bring their kids to Europe to get a decent education.

Most NES only speak English.

And I'm talking fluent ....... I doubt you speak English fluently.

Not only that,

As a Flemish person you should be speaking all three of your national languages fluently (Dutch, French, German), and you admit you can only manage two.

Edited June 13, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[buhi]

Was just having a very good open talk with my son; he is eleven coming on twelve.

He asked me am I growing much taller now.

I told him he was as he was approaching puberty.

Our discussion continued and I reminded him of the facts I had already taught him and asked if his school was as open as I with sex education.

He replied mostly, but not quite like you.

It is a private school.

He told me that girls get taller faster than boys.

I replied that was not always true, but girls do reach puberty earlier than boys generally.

It was a wonderful open discussion, one I will treasure.

Flamers off you go!

Sex education is very difficult to teach to a class. One has to be aware that there are different religions and cultures.

It is a parent's duty to teach these facts .

I am so happy my son can be willing to discuss this subject with me.

Great day.

[sickwaterbuffalo2]

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Mine go to Thai government schools,

Speaking two languages fluently (English and Thai) is enough of an advantage for my children.

Most kids attending western schools never manage that.

Strange i live in Belgium and speak Dutch,French,English and some German and went to government schools and most Thai woman i know married to fellow country men who have young Thai kids from former marriages or relationships with Thai men wont nothing else then bring their kids to Europe to get a decent education.

Most NES only speak English.

And I'm talking fluent ....... I doubt you speak English fluently.

Oh but i do i work offshore as a construction supervisor for a Scandinavian company worldwide and am a former first engineer working on container ships worldwide.

Once met a scotish English teacher in an expat bar in Buriram did not understand a word the guy was saying ,Lucky his girlfriend was there to act as a translator.......

[MaeJoMTB]

Most NES only speak English.

And I'm talking fluent ....... I doubt you speak English fluently.

Oh but i do i work offshore as a construction supervisor for a Scandinavian company worldwide and am a former first engineer working on container ships worldwide.

Once met a scotish English teacher in an expat bar in Buriram did not understand a word the guy was saying ,Lucky his girlfriend was there to act as a translator.......

Foreigners (non NES) always claim that, but rarely do.

I rarely make the effort to talk to them, too much like hard work.

Edited June 13, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[duanebigsby]

Most NES only speak English.

And I'm talking fluent ....... I doubt you speak English fluently.

Oh but i do i work offshore as a construction supervisor for a Scandinavian company worldwide and am a former first engineer working on container ships worldwide.

Once met a scotish English teacher in an expat bar in Buriram did not understand a word the guy was saying ,Lucky his girlfriend was there to act as a translator.......

Foreigners (non NES) always claim that, but rarely do.

I rarely make the effort to talk to them, too much like hard work.

You're just being a dick. Belgians and Dutch start English education right from the start and many are fluent. He's telling you he's fluent and you refuse to believe him. Why? Is your definition of fluency being born into a native speaking English country?

[buhi]

mae....

Can I ask you to reveal your qualifications?

[Crazy chef 1]

English language skills equals education...says Bob the binman from Bristol....

[MaeJoMTB]

Most NES only speak English.

And I'm talking fluent ....... I doubt you speak English fluently.

Oh but i do i work offshore as a construction supervisor for a Scandinavian company worldwide and am a former first engineer working on container ships worldwide.

Once met a scotish English teacher in an expat bar in Buriram did not understand a word the guy was saying ,Lucky his girlfriend was there to act as a translator.......

Foreigners (non NES) always claim that, but rarely do.

I rarely make the effort to talk to them, too much like hard work.

You're just being a dick. Belgians and Dutch start English education right from the start and many are fluent. He's telling you he's fluent and you refuse to believe him. Why? Is your definition of fluency being born into a native speaking English country?

I didn't refuse to believe him, just pointed out it's rarely true.

He might be the rare case, spoken to loads of Euro speakers, only One Norwegian turns out to be really fluent in English, he is fluent in Issan too.

Many claim fluency, but don't realize how hard they really are to understand.

Edited June 13, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

mae....

Can I ask you to reveal your qualifications?

5 'A' levels, Honours Science Degree, PGCE, along with assorted other stuff not worth listing.

(All from around 40 years ago)

Edited June 13, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[duanebigsby]

I didn't refuse to believe him, just pointed out it's rarely true.

He might be the rare case, spoken to loads of Euro speakers, only One Norwegian turns out to be really fluent in English, he is fluent in Issan too.

Many claim fluency, but don't realize how hard they really are to understand.

yes you did. You absolutely denied that he could be fluent in English. Again what is your definition of fluency, because many, many people around the world speak English as a second or third language fluently. It's often true that someone who says they can speak the language are fluent, not rare at all.

You're just being a dick. Belgians and Dutch start English education right from the start and many are fluent. He's telling you he's fluent and you refuse to believe him. Why? Is your definition of fluency being born into a native speaking English country?

Edited June 13, 2015 by duanebigsby

[MaeJoMTB]

Again what is your definition of fluency,

Fluency

Speaking English in a way that I don't have to work hard to understand.

(Most Scots, Welsh, Yorkshire and Cornish fit in that definition, most Euro speakers don't)

[buhi]

mae....

Can I ask you to reveal your qualifications?

5 'A' levels, Honours Science Degree, PGCE, along with assorted other stuff not worth listing.

Fine, not bad.

I a BA in English and American studies, postgraduate degree in education.

Forty years as a teacher,; twenty in England where I was a head teacher and twenty in Thailand.

Punjab indeed!

[MaeJoMTB]

mae....

Can I ask you to reveal your qualifications?

5 'A' levels, Honours Science Degree, PGCE, along with assorted other stuff not worth listing.

Fine, not bad.

I a BA in English and American studies, postgraduate degree in education.

Forty years as a teacher,; twenty in England where I was a head teacher and twenty in Thailand.

Punjab indeed!

I'd still like to know your native language, cos it ain't English (from your written posts).

What language did your parents speak to each other?

[Asheron]

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Mine go to Thai government schools,

Speaking two languages fluently (English and Thai) is enough of an advantage for my children.

Most kids attending western schools never manage that.

Oh really? In Finland all children have to learn not just finnish but english and the second national language swedish. In Sweden you have to learn swedish and english and can choose to learn spanish, german, french and in some schools japanese, korean or chinese (mandarin).

But what is "fluent"? If i can discuss the weather in thai with Somchai am i then fluent in thai? Read the newspaper and understand everything or almost everything as it can happen there is a word or two that you do not know the meaning of? My view of who is "fluent" in a language is when you stop to "translate" the language you are going to speak to your native language before actually saying the words. And according to my view i'm quite fluent in english.

But the matter is still that very small minority of all the thais know english or any other language that would be of use outside Thailand.

[Asheron]

Again what is your definition of fluency,

Fluency

Speaking English in a way that I don't have to work hard to understand.

(Most Scots, Welsh, Yorkshire and Cornish fit in that definition, most Euro speakers don't)

Pronounciation has nothing to do with fluency.

Most british i have talked to speak a form of english that even they can't understand when talking with each others. Once i sat at a bar around 3 pm drinking my beer and next to me were two british guys. I didn't really want to listen to them but they were quite loud so i "had" to listen when they "talked". It took me good 5-10 minutes to understand that they were actually from UK but whatever "language" they were talking was not proper english. But i wouldn't call them "non-fluent" because of that.

[lostoday]

Again what is your definition of fluency,

Fluency

Speaking English in a way that I don't have to work hard to understand.

(Most Scots, Welsh, Yorkshire and Cornish fit in that definition, most Euro speakers don't)

Pronounciation has nothing to do with fluency.

Most british i have talked to speak a form of english that even they can't understand when talking with each others. Once i sat at a bar around 3 pm drinking my beer and next to me were two british guys. I didn't really want to listen to them but they were quite loud so i "had" to listen when they "talked". It took me good 5-10 minutes to understand that they were actually from UK but whatever "language" they were talking was not proper english. But i wouldn't call them "non-fluent" because of that.

I met a Korean fellow - ordered a Rum and cock at a bar in Pattaya. Maybe it has a bit to do with fluency. The Korean story ended up with a happy ending but I don't know if it was exactly what he had in mind.

[MaeJoMTB]

But what is "fluent"? If i can discuss the weather in thai with Somchai am i then fluent in thai?

Only if Somchai doesn't keep saying 'arai na'.

My view of who is "fluent" in a language is when you stop to "translate" the language you are going to speak to your native language before actually saying the words. And according to my view i'm quite fluent in english.

Judgement needs to be decided externally, else every Thai English teacher would be considered fluent.

Edited June 13, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[robertthebruce]

Most NES only speak English.

And I'm talking fluent ....... I doubt you speak English fluently.

Oh but i do i work offshore as a construction supervisor for a Scandinavian company worldwide and am a former first engineer working on container ships worldwide.

Once met a scotish English teacher in an expat bar in Buriram did not understand a word the guy was saying ,Lucky his girlfriend was there to act as a translator.......

Foreigners (non NES) always claim that, but rarely do.

I rarely make the effort to talk to them, too much like hard work.

You're just being a dick. Belgians and Dutch start English education right from the start and many are fluent. He's telling you he's fluent and you refuse to believe him. Why? Is your definition of fluency being born into a native speaking English country?

Dutch for sure, speak fluent English..., as for Belgians ??? I somehow don't think so, Not any that I have met, Fench are the Same, they struggle...

[khunpa]

Just to make some things clear... I am NOT trying to say something bad about Thailand or Thai-people. If I hated Thailand, I would not live here and I would properly never had married a Thai-woman and have had a child with her. Furthermore, I would for sure never had been coming to Thailand for more than 20 years, if I hated the place or the people.

The fact is, that the Thai-educational system is very bad and since education a very important part of a countries development, then that is not good for Thailand. So the reason why I am worried about the educational system here, is actually because I worry and feel sorry for Thailand, because it will effect many people here. In other words I worry, because I like Thailand.

Why is it that so many Farangs here in Thailand start thinking like Thais after a while living here? All of a sudden it is not allowed to face the simple facts or criticises anything that is related to Thailand or Thai-people. If some Farang says something "wrong" or "bad", then the typical response is "Then why don't you just leave, if you do not like it here?"... I will never understand why some people can not see, that the only way for something to improve, like e.g. the educational system here, is to FACE THE FACTS and not just try to find excuses. Because that is exactly the Thai way of reacting and it just does not solve problems or provide progress for neither the country or the people.

Yes, there are worse countries than Thailand in the world, but if Thailand does not face reality then at some point in the future, there will not be many countries worse than Thailand. And that is exactly my point. Thailand is moving backwards while other surrounding countries are moving forward. Hiding from the facts (Thai-Style), does not solve the problems or make them go away.

If you really cared and knew something about Thailand, then you would worry too. Especially, if you had children here.

Oh... and by the way... I actually have a teachers degree, have been guest teacher at many universities here and my wife also has a teenage son in the Thai-school system. I think I know just a bit about the educational system here or at least the level of it.

"because it will effect many people here. In other words I worry, because I like Thailand."

Grammar correction; [affect] as opposed to "effect".

An effect is to have an affect on...

Therefore, "it will affect many people here..."

So sorry about that mistake and thanks for pointing it out. English is not my First Language, so mistakes do happen some times :-)

However, I hope my english was good enough for you to at least understand the meaning of what I wrote?

[lostoday]

Well perhaps your view on car production is different from mine. You are entitled to be proud that a BMW is made in Thailand and boast about it. But its different than people boasting about that BMW is a German brand quality.

Thai education got bad because the country stop moving forward. Thais may be more developed due to the government, but they are not necessary smarter. You can keep on thinking that Thais are superior to their neighbor, just like a typical snobby Thai attitude looking down on your neighbors.

I know Thailand is not the UK, and what makes you think that I am even a westerner to begin with.

"You want to change Thailand but if you really liked Thailand you would not want to change it"

Thank you for that statement, that is exactly the same mentality why Thailand is moving backwards, nobody wants and accepts change.

Why don't you ask you mom or grandma if they want walk around topless? Why are you still embracing western culture and technology? or heck, why are you even on TV?

Why can't you admit and accept that Thai education system is a failure and students are getting dumber? lose of face? hard to swallow the truth?

Thailand has one of the highest education budgets in the world, and the highest by a big margin comparing to all the other ministries in Thailand such as social, economic, etc. Yet all the money is lost through corruption with nothing being done to overhaul the system.

It is up to Thais to make the change and voice their opinion, sadly most Thais don't care or want to do much about it too! Its only the foreigners who wants Thais to get better because they see how much better this society can and could have been, how ironic!

You are talking about too much stuff to carry on a intelligent debate. A lot of the stuff you are saying I agree with like the corruption and misspent money.

Thailand is much like a spouse. Many people get married and then want to change their spouse. As in Los, "now that we are married you will have to stop drinking so much." What's up with that. I was a drunk when you married me.

Many people who came to Thailand from the West in the 1930's did not want their teenage daughters to go topless. I think they should have stayed home. Love me love my dog.

I came here not to change the place but to appreciate it as it is. Whatever the Thai people want is OK with me. If I don't like it I'll leave.

I would not have colonized Burma to improve them either; I think that is terrible. I would not have invaded Vietnam. I would not have colonized Laos or Cambodia.

I think Western influence in South East Asia has sucked big time.

I'm talking too much stuff to carry on an intelligent debate? But you intelligent debate and topic revolves around malaysia, topless women, spouse, Burma, Vietnam. All my points were on topic regarding to Thailand and Education.

I don't see why its so hard for you to accept change for Thai society, what many are preaching here applies to any developing country. Its not about westerners coming here to try to change things. Its about progression and evolving to keep up, even the Thais want change and better society, but the thing that's holding them back are law enforcement and politics.

I'll just end it here as my not so intelligent debate does not involve around dogs and colonization that you keep on preachings about.

Your topics.1 - 9 my answers in italics.

1. But its different than people boasting about that BMW is a German brand quality.

Any yokel with a computer can design a car it takes some brains to go from design to finished product and that in almost all cases is an international effort.

2. Thai education got bad because the country stop moving forward.

Thai education was always bad when compared to more technologically advanced societies.

3. Thais may be more developed due to the government, but they are not necessary smarter.

Thai government has almost always been a handicap to Thai people. All Thailand has is smart people who rescue the government when it stumbles.

4. You can keep on thinking that Thais are superior to their neighbor, just like a typical snobby Thai attitude looking down on your neighbors.

Oh come on now. I've been to Vietnam, Burma, Laos and Cambodia and Malaysia. Thailand is clearly superior - that's why I live here.

5. I know Thailand is not the UK, and what makes you think that I am even a westerner to begin with?

Because mostly Western people come on here without the experience or education to have a good understanding of South East Asia. Japanese and Koreans have a better idea.

6. Thank you for that statement, that is exactly the same mentality why Thailand is moving backwards, nobody wants and accepts change.

Thai people don't want change because change has usually meant disaster (think Phibun). Thais have never starved or wanted for a place to stay. Lots of food and shelter here for free and whiskey is only 5 baht a glass and tobacco is grown locally and the women are easy.

7. Why don't you ask you mom or grandma if they want walk around topless? Why are you still embracing western culture and technology? or heck, why are you even on TV?

Granny still goes topless. I'm on the computer because I work and the rest is just to fill in space so I don't get bored. The first years I was in Thailand there were no computers and I got along fine (TWX machine) but now I'm getting older and need more chair time.

8. Why can't you admit and accept that Thai education system is a failure and students are getting dumber? lose of face? hard to swallow the truth?

The education is a failure by your standards. Japan, China and most of the Western countries have suicide rates 400% higher than Thailand. I'm not so sure the Thai education system is a failure. A. Low rate of suicide. B. Full employment. C. Whiskey 5 baht a shot. D. Rice, vegetables and tobacco almost free.

9. sadly most Thais don't care or want to do much about it too! Its only the foreigners who wants Thais to get better because they see how much better this society can and could have been, how ironic!

Except me and a few others all of the Farang can go home. I don't talk to many of them any more and I have sourced all of my own food by now. So I don't need them.

It's not ironic - it is your lack of understanding about what is really important to Thai people. What is important to you is not important to them. It is their country they get to decide.

Edited June 13, 2015 by lostoday

[robertthebruce]

Well perhaps your view on car production is different from mine. You are entitled to be proud that a BMW is made in Thailand and boast about it. But its different than people boasting about that BMW is a German brand quality.

Thai education got bad because the country stop moving forward. Thais may be more developed due to the government, but they are not necessary smarter. You can keep on thinking that Thais are superior to their neighbor, just like a typical snobby Thai attitude looking down on your neighbors.

I know Thailand is not the UK, and what makes you think that I am even a westerner to begin with.

"You want to change Thailand but if you really liked Thailand you would not want to change it"

Thank you for that statement, that is exactly the same mentality why Thailand is moving backwards, nobody wants and accepts change.

Why don't you ask you mom or grandma if they want walk around topless? Why are you still embracing western culture and technology? or heck, why are you even on TV?

Why can't you admit and accept that Thai education system is a failure and students are getting dumber? lose of face? hard to swallow the truth?

Thailand has one of the highest education budgets in the world, and the highest by a big margin comparing to all the other ministries in Thailand such as social, economic, etc. Yet all the money is lost through corruption with nothing being done to overhaul the system.

It is up to Thais to make the change and voice their opinion, sadly most Thais don't care or want to do much about it too! Its only the foreigners who wants Thais to get better because they see how much better this society can and could have been, how ironic!

You are talking about too much stuff to carry on a intelligent debate. A lot of the stuff you are saying I agree with like the corruption and misspent money.

Thailand is much like a spouse. Many people get married and then want to change their spouse. As in Los, "now that we are married you will have to stop drinking so much." What's up with that. I was a drunk when you married me.

Many people who came to Thailand from the West in the 1930's did not want their teenage daughters to go topless. I think they should have stayed home. Love me love my dog.

I came here not to change the place but to appreciate it as it is. Whatever the Thai people want is OK with me. If I don't like it I'll leave.

I would not have colonized Burma to improve them either; I think that is terrible. I would not have invaded Vietnam. I would not have colonized Laos or Cambodia.

I think Western influence in South East Asia has sucked big time.

I'm talking too much stuff to carry on an intelligent debate? But you intelligent debate and topic revolves around malaysia, topless women, spouse, Burma, Vietnam. All my points were on topic regarding to Thailand and Education.

I don't see why its so hard for you to accept change for Thai society, what many are preaching here applies to any developing country. Its not about westerners coming here to try to change things. Its about progression and evolving to keep up, even the Thais want change and better society, but the thing that's holding them back are law enforcement and politics.

I'll just end it here as my not so intelligent debate does not involve around dogs and colonization that you keep on preachings about.

Your topics.1 - 9 my answers in italics.

1. But its different than people boasting about that BMW is a German brand quality.

Any yokel with a computer can design a car it takes some brains to go from design to finished product and that in almost all cases is an international effort.

2. Thai education got bad because the country stop moving forward.

Thai education was always bad when compared to more technologically advanced societies.

3. Thais may be more developed due to the government, but they are not necessary smarter.

Thai government has almost always been a handicap to Thai people. All Thailand has is smart people who rescue the government when it stumbles.

4. You can keep on thinking that Thais are superior to their neighbor, just like a typical snobby Thai attitude looking down on your neighbors.

Oh come on now. I've been to Vietnam, Burma, Laos and Cambodia and Malaysia. Thailand is clearly superior - that's why I live here.

5. I know Thailand is not the UK, and what makes you think that I am even a westerner to begin with?

Because mostly Western people come on here without the experience or education to have a good understanding of South East Asia. Japanese and Koreans have a better idea.

6. Thank you for that statement, that is exactly the same mentality why Thailand is moving backwards, nobody wants and accepts change.

Thai people don't want change because change has usually meant disaster (think Phibun). Thais have never starved or wanted for a place to stay. Lots of food and shelter here for free and whiskey is only 5 baht a glass and tobacco is grown locally and the women are easy.

7. Why don't you ask you mom or grandma if they want walk around topless? Why are you still embracing western culture and technology? or heck, why are you even on TV?

Granny still goes topless. I'm on the computer because I work and the rest is just to fill in space so I don't get bored. The first years I was in Thailand there were no computers and I got along fine (TWX machine) but now I'm getting older and need more chair time.

8. Why can't you admit and accept that Thai education system is a failure and students are getting dumber? lose of face? hard to swallow the truth?

The education is a failure by your standards. Japan, China and most of the Western countries have suicide rates 400% higher than Thailand. I'm not so sure the Thai education system is a failure. A. Low rate of suicide. B. Full employment. C. Whiskey 5 baht a shot. D. Rice, vegetables and tobacco almost free.

9. sadly most Thais don't care or want to do much about it too! Its only the foreigners who wants Thais to get better because they see how much better this society can and could have been, how ironic!

Except me and a few others all of the Farang can go home. I don't talk to many of them any more and I have sourced all of my own food by now. So I don't need them.

It's not ironic - it is your lack of understanding about what is really important to Thai people. What is important to you is not important to them. It is their country they get to decide.

Exactly, and that's why "Thailand" is a Third World Country", but that's fine, like you said, it's there Country...., we are just short term visitors, but that suits me too....

[Asheron]

Again what is your definition of fluency,

Fluency

Speaking English in a way that I don't have to work hard to understand.

(Most Scots, Welsh, Yorkshire and Cornish fit in that definition, most Euro speakers don't)

Pronounciation has nothing to do with fluency.

Most british i have talked to speak a form of english that even they can't understand when talking with each others. Once i sat at a bar around 3 pm drinking my beer and next to me were two british guys. I didn't really want to listen to them but they were quite loud so i "had" to listen when they "talked". It took me good 5-10 minutes to understand that they were actually from UK but whatever "language" they were talking was not proper english. But i wouldn't call them "non-fluent" because of that.

I met a Korean fellow - ordered a Rum and cock at a bar in Pattaya. Maybe it has a bit to do with fluency. The Korean story ended up with a happy ending but I don't know if it was exactly what he had in mind.

And how does that relate to what i wrote?