Will lack of education be the downfall of Thailand?

[duanebigsby]

Again what is your definition of fluency,

Fluency

Speaking English in a way that I don't have to work hard to understand.

(Most Scots, Welsh, Yorkshire and Cornish fit in that definition, most Euro speakers don't)

I don't understand most Scots, English or Irish Northerners at all, so by your definition, I'd say they weren't fluent in English. There's a Liverpudlian and a Dutchman

frequent the bar I do, I speak to the Dutch fellow because I can't understand a word of Scouse.

I do say that you've been quite condescending to the Finnish fellow, without ever hearing his English. He speaks four languages, how many do you speak?

[khunpa]

Although foreign language skills are of course in some jobs important, I do not think e.g. English is so important here in Thailand, when it comes to the debate about the educational system here.

The biggest value you can get from education is the ability to learn new things, seek information, use the information and think independently. That is in my opinion the biggest problem about the educational system here. Thailands educational system does not create individuals with open mindsets. It creates "robots" that think alike and do not question anything. That is of course good, if the goal is to create a static work force, that just follows orders - like e.g. factory workers.

But the problem is, that the country also need individual "thinkers" and not "robots" to progress. Unless of course Thailand wants other nationalities to take care of that part. Like e.g. when we see foreign managers running the hotels, factories and other businesses that require further skills, than those of a "robot-thinker".

Again I am not Thai-bashing... I just think it is a shame for Thailand that they do not realise that globalisation is something you can not ignore, without consequences. At some point it will catch up and hurt the normal population here. I am not talking about The Elite. They will and do not care. I think ASEAN will hurt Thailand, instead of create progress. Because if Thailand educational system continues to fall back and the others contries go forward, then at some point there will be a change.

Edited June 13, 2015 by khunpa

[MaeJoMTB]

Again what is your definition of fluency,

Fluency

Speaking English in a way that I don't have to work hard to understand.

(Most Scots, Welsh, Yorkshire and Cornish fit in that definition, most Euro speakers don't)

I don't understand most Scots, English or Irish Northerners at all, so by your definition, I'd say they weren't fluent in English. There's a Liverpudlian and a Dutchman

frequent the bar I do, I speak to the Dutch fellow because I can't understand a word of Scouse.

I do say that you've been quite condescending to the Finnish fellow, without ever hearing his English. He speaks four languages, how many do you speak?

In order of competence,

English, Thai, French, Spanish, German .... that's 5, but I only claim fluency in one.

I did start learning Portuguese, but gave that up when everyone in Brazil seemed to understand my Spanish.

I also learned enough Gaelic to follow scripts for children's TV shows, read by other people, but forgot that all years ago.

Edited June 13, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[duanebigsby]

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Mine go to Thai government schools,

Speaking two languages fluently (English and Thai) is enough of an advantage for my children.

Most kids attending western schools never manage that.

Strange i live in Belgium and speak Dutch,French,English and some German and went to government schools and most Thai woman i know married to fellow country men who have young Thai kids from former marriages or relationships with Thai men wont nothing else then bring their kids to Europe to get a decent education.

Most NES only speak English.

And I'm talking fluent ....... I doubt you speak English fluently.

Not only that,

As a Flemish person you should be speaking all three of your national languages fluently (Dutch, French, German), and you admit you can only manage two.

Why should he speak every one of his country's languages?

Canada has two official languages and 95% of Canadians don't speak French.

I lived in Vancouver 4ooo kilometers from a French speaking province where everyone will speak to me in English anyways.

[lostoday]

Fluency

Speaking English in a way that I don't have to work hard to understand.

(Most Scots, Welsh, Yorkshire and Cornish fit in that definition, most Euro speakers don't)

Pronounciation has nothing to do with fluency.

Most british i have talked to speak a form of english that even they can't understand when talking with each others. Once i sat at a bar around 3 pm drinking my beer and next to me were two british guys. I didn't really want to listen to them but they were quite loud so i "had" to listen when they "talked". It took me good 5-10 minutes to understand that they were actually from UK but whatever "language" they were talking was not proper english. But i wouldn't call them "non-fluent" because of that.

I met a Korean fellow - ordered a Rum and cock at a bar in Pattaya. Maybe it has a bit to do with fluency. The Korean story ended up with a happy ending but I don't know if it was exactly what he had in mind.

And how does that relate to what i wrote?

You wrote, "Pronounciation has nothing to do with fluency."

If you are fluent you will be understood. The Korean man was not understood.

Pronunciation has has everything to do with fluency.

Like, I'm thinking- how could this fellow Asheron not understood what I wrote - it's perfectly clear. I would suspect you are not fluent in English.

In Thai I used to shy away from saying the Thai word for Korea because it is close to prostitute and I didn't want to make an error. If I had been fluent it would not have been a problem.

Edited June 13, 2015 by lostoday

[buhi]

mae....

Can I ask you to reveal your qualifications?

5 'A' levels, Honours Science Degree, PGCE, along with assorted other stuff not worth listing.

Fine, not bad.

I a BA in English and American studies, postgraduate degree in education.

Forty years as a teacher,; twenty in England where I was a head teacher and twenty in Thailand.

Punjab indeed!

I'd still like to know your native language, cos it ain't English (from your written posts).

What language did your parents speak to each other?

Cockney!

[lostoday]

For that self righteous racialist; I am white. born in the East end of London !

What the hell is wrong with this guy?

Inflated ego would be a simple answer,

Which one?

[CharlieH]

A number of bickering posts removed.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[buhi]

Out of here! Enough.

[Blackfox]

Just to make some things clear... I am NOT trying to say something bad about Thailand or Thai-people. If I hated Thailand, I would not live here and I would properly never had married a Thai-woman and have had a child with her. Furthermore, I would for sure never had been coming to Thailand for more than 20 years, if I hated the place or the people.

The fact is, that the Thai-educational system is very bad and since education a very important part of a countries development, then that is not good for Thailand. So the reason why I am worried about the educational system here, is actually because I worry and feel sorry for Thailand, because it will effect many people here. In other words I worry, because I like Thailand.

Why is it that so many Farangs here in Thailand start thinking like Thais after a while living here? All of a sudden it is not allowed to face the simple facts or criticises anything that is related to Thailand or Thai-people. If some Farang says something "wrong" or "bad", then the typical response is "Then why don't you just leave, if you do not like it here?"... I will never understand why some people can not see, that the only way for something to improve, like e.g. the educational system here, is to FACE THE FACTS and not just try to find excuses. Because that is exactly the Thai way of reacting and it just does not solve problems or provide progress for neither the country or the people.

Yes, there are worse countries than Thailand in the world, but if Thailand does not face reality then at some point in the future, there will not be many countries worse than Thailand. And that is exactly my point. Thailand is moving backwards while other surrounding countries are moving forward. Hiding from the facts (Thai-Style), does not solve the problems or make them go away.

If you really cared and knew something about Thailand, then you would worry too. Especially, if you had children here.

Oh... and by the way... I actually have a teachers degree, have been guest teacher at many universities here and my wife also has a teenage son in the Thai-school system. I think I know just a bit about the educational system here or at least the level of it.

"because it will effect many people here. In other words I worry, because I like Thailand."

Grammar correction; [affect] as opposed to "effect".

An effect is to have an affect on...

Therefore, "it will affect many people here..."

So sorry about that mistake and thanks for pointing it out. English is not my First Language, so mistakes do happen some times :-)

However, I hope my english was good enough for you to at least understand the meaning of what I wrote?

You're welcome Khunpa.

Certainly no need to apologise.

I did understand the meaning of your post.

In actual fact, I genuinely believe that many who do not have English as first language have a better grasp of it than we do.

In many of the English native tongue nations now, if you don't have the cash, your children will get a substandard education...including correct grammatical, written and spoken English.

It's the same here.

Bottom line; the more wealth a Thai family has, the better education their children will receive.

It's disappointing, because all should have equivalent opportunities for education.

In my country Australia, as elsewhere, there is an increasing divide of those that have and can, to those that don't.

That's capitalism.....here it's corruption, lack of genuine foresight, leadership and ignorance.

[Blackfox]

Well perhaps your view on car production is different from mine. You are entitled to be proud that a BMW is made in Thailand and boast about it. But its different than people boasting about that BMW is a German brand quality.

Thai education got bad because the country stop moving forward. Thais may be more developed due to the government, but they are not necessary smarter. You can keep on thinking that Thais are superior to their neighbor, just like a typical snobby Thai attitude looking down on your neighbors.

I know Thailand is not the UK, and what makes you think that I am even a westerner to begin with.

"You want to change Thailand but if you really liked Thailand you would not want to change it"

Thank you for that statement, that is exactly the same mentality why Thailand is moving backwards, nobody wants and accepts change.

Why don't you ask you mom or grandma if they want walk around topless? Why are you still embracing western culture and technology? or heck, why are you even on TV?

Why can't you admit and accept that Thai education system is a failure and students are getting dumber? lose of face? hard to swallow the truth?

Thailand has one of the highest education budgets in the world, and the highest by a big margin comparing to all the other ministries in Thailand such as social, economic, etc. Yet all the money is lost through corruption with nothing being done to overhaul the system.

It is up to Thais to make the change and voice their opinion, sadly most Thais don't care or want to do much about it too! Its only the foreigners who wants Thais to get better because they see how much better this society can and could have been, how ironic!

You are talking about too much stuff to carry on a intelligent debate. A lot of the stuff you are saying I agree with like the corruption and misspent money.

Thailand is much like a spouse. Many people get married and then want to change their spouse. As in Los, "now that we are married you will have to stop drinking so much." What's up with that. I was a drunk when you married me.

Many people who came to Thailand from the West in the 1930's did not want their teenage daughters to go topless. I think they should have stayed home. Love me love my dog.

I came here not to change the place but to appreciate it as it is. Whatever the Thai people want is OK with me. If I don't like it I'll leave.

I would not have colonized Burma to improve them either; I think that is terrible. I would not have invaded Vietnam. I would not have colonized Laos or Cambodia.

I think Western influence in South East Asia has sucked big time.

I'm talking too much stuff to carry on an intelligent debate? But you intelligent debate and topic revolves around malaysia, topless women, spouse, Burma, Vietnam. All my points were on topic regarding to Thailand and Education.

I don't see why its so hard for you to accept change for Thai society, what many are preaching here applies to any developing country. Its not about westerners coming here to try to change things. Its about progression and evolving to keep up, even the Thais want change and better society, but the thing that's holding them back are law enforcement and politics.

I'll just end it here as my not so intelligent debate does not involve around dogs and colonization that you keep on preachings about.

Your topics.1 - 9 my answers in italics.

1. But its different than people boasting about that BMW is a German brand quality.

Any yokel with a computer can design a car it takes some brains to go from design to finished product and that in almost all cases is an international effort.

2. Thai education got bad because the country stop moving forward.

Thai education was always bad when compared to more technologically advanced societies.

3. Thais may be more developed due to the government, but they are not necessary smarter.

Thai government has almost always been a handicap to Thai people. All Thailand has is smart people who rescue the government when it stumbles.

4. You can keep on thinking that Thais are superior to their neighbor, just like a typical snobby Thai attitude looking down on your neighbors.

Oh come on now. I've been to Vietnam, Burma, Laos and Cambodia and Malaysia. Thailand is clearly superior - that's why I live here.

5. I know Thailand is not the UK, and what makes you think that I am even a westerner to begin with?

Because mostly Western people come on here without the experience or education to have a good understanding of South East Asia. Japanese and Koreans have a better idea.

6. Thank you for that statement, that is exactly the same mentality why Thailand is moving backwards, nobody wants and accepts change.

Thai people don't want change because change has usually meant disaster (think Phibun). Thais have never starved or wanted for a place to stay. Lots of food and shelter here for free and whiskey is only 5 baht a glass and tobacco is grown locally and the women are easy.

7. Why don't you ask you mom or grandma if they want walk around topless? Why are you still embracing western culture and technology? or heck, why are you even on TV?

Granny still goes topless. I'm on the computer because I work and the rest is just to fill in space so I don't get bored. The first years I was in Thailand there were no computers and I got along fine (TWX machine) but now I'm getting older and need more chair time.

8. Why can't you admit and accept that Thai education system is a failure and students are getting dumber? lose of face? hard to swallow the truth?

The education is a failure by your standards. Japan, China and most of the Western countries have suicide rates 400% higher than Thailand. I'm not so sure the Thai education system is a failure. A. Low rate of suicide. B. Full employment. C. Whiskey 5 baht a shot. D. Rice, vegetables and tobacco almost free.

9. sadly most Thais don't care or want to do much about it too! Its only the foreigners who wants Thais to get better because they see how much better this society can and could have been, how ironic!

Except me and a few others all of the Farang can go home. I don't talk to many of them any more and I have sourced all of my own food by now. So I don't need them.

It's not ironic - it is your lack of understanding about what is really important to Thai people. What is important to you is not important to them. It is their country they get to decide.

Exactly, and that's why "Thailand" is a Third World Country", but that's fine, like you said, it's there Country...., we are just short term visitors, but that suits me too....

Jeez mate; I'm guessing from your avatar that English is your first language.

If it is, you should no longer post here because you are a fool.

If English is your second, then perhaps a little learning.

Thailand is a "developing country", 2nd world although as I understand, it's perhaps not politically correct to be using 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

I'd suggest "developed", "developing", and a "farking long way to go" country.

Thailand being in the middle.

Also, "it's there country"? Incorrect.

The correct word is "their".

"We are just short term visitors..."

Best be on your way; Thailand certainly doesn't need you.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Blackfox

[lostoday]

Exactly, and that's why "Thailand" is a Third World Country", but that's fine, like you said, it's there Country...., we are just short term visitors, but that suits me too....

Jeez mate; I'm guessing from your avatar that English is your first language.

If it is, you should no longer post here because you are a fool.

If English is your second, then perhaps a little learning.

Thailand is a "developing country", 2nd world although as I understand, it's perhaps not politically correct to be using 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

I'd suggest "developed", "developing", and a "farking long way to go" country.

Thailand being in the middle.

Also, "it's there country"? Incorrect.

The correct word is "their".

"We are just short term visitors..."

Best be on your way; Thailand certainly doesn't need you.

Because of how you composed your reply I have no idea who you are talking to. I do know there is a rule in Thai Visa not to correct grammar unless it is part of the topic or necessary to understand what the poster meant.

Like I said I don't know if you are talking to me or not but Thailand is a first, second and third world country depending on what you are talking about. 1st world medical care and malls, industrial parks and movies and 3rd world education and politics.

If you have a problem understanding what a person meant when he wrote there instead of their I wonder at what happens when you speak Thai. Good luck.

Edited June 13, 2015 by lostoday

[chrisandsu]

I think you slammed the nail on the head lost? 1st world malls and hospitals , third world corruption , politics , education ! Of course if you have the money it becomes marginally better but that's the world throughout right ?

[Craig krup]

They could transform their education system and their country, and actually save money, just by abandoning their script. The pronunciation lives in the spoken language, and they already have their entire vocabulary in western script. Why not just have a "Kemal Ataturk" moment and adopt a,b,c...?

As soon as you do that learning English and other languages becomes much easier, you gain access to all of the teaching materials, periodicals and other resources and the world opens up. There is no reason to persist with such a terrible and dysfunctional script other than dumb tradition.

Reforming teacher training would be your next move.

[lostoday]

They could transform their education system and their country, and actually save money, just by abandoning their script. The pronunciation lives in the spoken language, and they already have their entire vocabulary in western script. Why not just have a "Kemal Ataturk" moment and adopt a,b,c...?

As soon as you do that learning English and other languages becomes much easier, you gain access to all of the teaching materials, periodicals and other resources and the world opens up. There is no reason to persist with such a terrible and dysfunctional script other than dumb tradition.

Reforming teacher training would be your next move.

Since English/Western alphabet is not a tonal alphabet what would you do with the 5 tones in the Thai language?

Edited June 13, 2015 by lostoday

[Stan42]

My one and a quarter cents (That's all I can spare):

I've directly seen and experienced this with the younger members in my big Thai family.

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

One must consider what is exactly being taught in Thai schools.

Look at the teachers: English is taught by young backpacking tourists who don't even have a degree in education, they just follow their text books and don't even speak a single word of Thai (Some of my friends from high school had to study for four years and earn a degree before they were qualified to teach). My Thai cousin studied German (probably because I'm German and his family has some sort of inferiority complex) for three years, he now proudly "teaches" German courses for 1'500thb per student when I, as a fluent speaking German, can clearly say he cannot even pronounce the words properly.

Therefore it shouldn't surprise anyone that employers automatically check if their applicants have been educated abroad or not. It's because they know how poor Thai education is, and spending a single year at a top university abroad instantly boosts your chances of getting a good job. But of course you need to be rich in the first place to afford attending a university abroad, let alone complete a four year BA degree there. So once again only the Hiso have the luxury of attending a top university and getting a good paying job. If you were born into a poor family, regardless of how superior your intelligence is, you're going to end up selling street food.

[lostoday]

My one and a quarter cents (That's all I can spare):

I've directly seen and experienced this with the younger members in my big Thai family.

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

One must consider what is exactly being taught in Thai schools.

Look at the teachers: English is taught by young backpacking tourists who don't even have a degree in education, they just follow their text books and don't even speak a single word of Thai (Some of my friends from high school had to study for four years and earn a degree before they were qualified to teach). My Thai cousin studied German (probably because I'm German and his family has some sort of inferiority complex) for three years, he now proudly "teaches" German courses for 1'500thb per student when I, as a fluent speaking German, can clearly say he cannot even pronounce the words properly.

Therefore it shouldn't surprise anyone that employers automatically check if their applicants have been educated abroad or not. It's because they know how poor Thai education is, and spending a single year at a top university abroad instantly boosts your chances of getting a good job. But of course you need to be rich in the first place to afford attending a university abroad, let alone complete a four year BA degree there. So once again only the Hiso have the luxury of attending a top university and getting a good paying job. If you were born into a poor family, regardless of how superior your intelligence is, you're going to end up selling street food.

Nuts. You need to get out and meet some Thai graduates who make the cars, petroleum products, steel, and the thousands of companies that have Thai graduates on the payroll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Thailand

There are thousands of scholarships for poor students in Thailand. It is all on the internet if you but want to look. Many universities make contracts with students to pay for degrees by teaching at the university for 2 years after graduation. Many industrial companies award scholarships for poor students. There is an exam taken by poor teaching students that if passed they are awarded a 4 year scholarship in return for teaching for 4 years after graduation at government schools. So if the kid is smart and studies they can get an education regardless of financial means.

[KarenBravo]

They could transform their education system and their country, and actually save money, just by abandoning their script. The pronunciation lives in the spoken language, and they already have their entire vocabulary in western script. Why not just have a "Kemal Ataturk" moment and adopt a,b,c...?

As soon as you do that learning English and other languages becomes much easier, you gain access to all of the teaching materials, periodicals and other resources and the world opens up. There is no reason to persist with such a terrible and dysfunctional script other than dumb tradition.

Reforming teacher training would be your next move.

Since English/Western alphabet is not a tonal alphabet what would you do with the 5 tones in the Thai language?

Ask the Vietnamese. They speak a tonal language and use the Latin script.

[Blackfox]

Exactly, and that's why "Thailand" is a Third World Country", but that's fine, like you said, it's there Country...., we are just short term visitors, but that suits me too....

Jeez mate; I'm guessing from your avatar that English is your first language.

If it is, you should no longer post here because you are a fool.

If English is your second, then perhaps a little learning.

Thailand is a "developing country", 2nd world although as I understand, it's perhaps not politically correct to be using 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

I'd suggest "developed", "developing", and a "farking long way to go" country.

Thailand being in the middle.

Also, "it's there country"? Incorrect.

The correct word is "their".

"We are just short term visitors..."

Best be on your way; Thailand certainly doesn't need you.

Because of how you composed your reply I have no idea who you are talking to. I do know there is a rule in Thai Visa not to correct grammar unless it is part of the topic or necessary to understand what the poster meant.

Like I said I don't know if you are talking to me or not but Thailand is a first, second and third world country depending on what you are talking about. 1st world medical care and malls, industrial parks and movies and 3rd world education and politics.

If you have a problem understanding what a person meant when he wrote there instead of their I wonder at what happens when you speak Thai. Good luck.

Lostoday,

The post pertains to another, not yourself.

I agree with all of your thoughts and comments.

Apologies to the mods re my post last night.

A lack of strong leadership, foresight, will, corruption, and ignorance will be detrimental for Thailands future.

Communication, business and media encompasses the entire world; globalisation.

Thailand must shed its insular attitude to progress, and that starts with education.

Although, I do think the rising middle class in BKK are making a good go of it.

There are some very good Thai schools you can't buy your way in to, and out of, with a pass mark.

They'll only accept the bright kids.

Within my extended Thai family and friends, there is an understanding now that they must be proactive in their children's learning.

I also help. 1.5 hours of English lessons yesterday and the same for today.

Yesterday, my near 6 year old Thai niece wrote words beginning with letters from A to M (no assistance). Today will be the 2nd 1/2 of the alphabet.

Nevertheless, I (44) and my wife (37) will take her to Australia in about 10 years with or without a child of our own.

Western exposure for a Thai student is a tremendous opportunity, not just for education, but personal growth.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Blackfox

[lostoday]

They could transform their education system and their country, and actually save money, just by abandoning their script. The pronunciation lives in the spoken language, and they already have their entire vocabulary in western script. Why not just have a "Kemal Ataturk" moment and adopt a,b,c...?

As soon as you do that learning English and other languages becomes much easier, you gain access to all of the teaching materials, periodicals and other resources and the world opens up. There is no reason to persist with such a terrible and dysfunctional script other than dumb tradition.

Reforming teacher training would be your next move.

Since English/Western alphabet is not a tonal alphabet what would you do with the 5 tones in the Thai language?

Ask the Vietnamese. They speak a tonal language and use the Latin script.

They use little marks above the letters. That's a good point.

[Berkshire]

" As of 2012, the Thailand automotive industry was the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World. The Thailand industry has an annual output of near 1.5 million vehicles (mostly commercial vehicles), more than countries such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, Czech Republic, and Turkey"

There is no Thai automotive industry.

There are no Thai cars.. ( except maybe tuk tuks?)

Automotive industries from developed countries are taking advantage of Thailand's cheap uneducated labor to assemble their products for a fraction of the cost of assempl in their home countries.

Most motorcycles are produced here for the same reason..

.exploiting the cheap uneducated labor available here in Thailand.

I read recently that many Thais believe that FORD is a Thai car company! ( they are assembled here, right?)

Does Singapore have an auto industry? Hong Kong? How about most Euro countries, do they all have internationally recognized autos? Is there an Aussie brand auto? You're nit-picking. Would you rather Thailand not manufacture cars at all?

It's not just about cheap labor, otherwise manufacturers would be building cars in Somalia. Thailand has the infrastructure and workforce to support major manufacturing. But I'm sure anything positive about Thailand offends you.

Your argument is a good one, but because you always so one sided when discussing anything they loose credibility..why add the last sentence..

People must see your name and just switch off, the same with that other guy " something 69", you need to be more balanced..

There is a great manufacturing base here in Thailand, although primarily low skilled.

There are many positives about Thailand, but this topic ain't one of them.

Appreciate your comments--fair enough. I am actually quite balanced....in real life. But not so much on TV. Why? Because TV doesn't need yet another Thai-basher. There are so many ignorant and racist fools on TV, I'd just rather not be on the "dark side." I just wonder about all these guys who jump on the bandwagon to criticize the Thais, do they actually think it makes them seem smarter? It definitely does not and I need to tell them so.

[Berkshire]

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

So typical: A lot of what you've brought up are western-centric. Why in God's name would you expect Thais to know or care about western history? Do you know anything about Asian and Thai history? Does that make you stupid?

[Blackfox]

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

So typical: A lot of what you've brought up are western-centric. Why in God's name would you expect Thais to know or care about western history? Do you know anything about Asian and Thai history? Does that make you stupid?

There still needs to be a balance.

Thais perhaps need not know about Western history but an understanding of current world affairs is warranted.

Globalisation affects us all…even the rice farmer.

[duanebigsby]

They could transform their education system and their country, and actually save money, just by abandoning their script. The pronunciation lives in the spoken language, and they already have their entire vocabulary in western script. Why not just have a "Kemal Ataturk" moment and adopt a,b,c...?

As soon as you do that learning English and other languages becomes much easier, you gain access to all of the teaching materials, periodicals and other resources and the world opens up. There is no reason to persist with such a terrible and dysfunctional script other than dumb tradition.

Reforming teacher training would be your next move.

Since English/Western alphabet is not a tonal alphabet what would you do with the 5 tones in the Thai language?

Not to mention the sounds and vowels that simply don't exist in the English alphabet, ngaa nguu, tdaa tdow. See it is a failure for me to just give an example.

[duanebigsby]

They could transform their education system and their country, and actually save money, just by abandoning their script. The pronunciation lives in the spoken language, and they already have their entire vocabulary in western script. Why not just have a "Kemal Ataturk" moment and adopt a,b,c...?

As soon as you do that learning English and other languages becomes much easier, you gain access to all of the teaching materials, periodicals and other resources and the world opens up. There is no reason to persist with such a terrible and dysfunctional script other than dumb tradition.

Reforming teacher training would be your next move.

Since English/Western alphabet is not a tonal alphabet what would you do with the 5 tones in the Thai language?

Ask the Vietnamese. They speak a tonal language and use the Latin script.

They use little marks above the letters. That's a good point.

What about the letters and vowels that there are absolutely no English letter equivalents for?

The Thai noodle writing (I'm just learning it) is appropriate for the Thai language and using Roman alphabet to approximate the sound is ludicrous.

[duanebigsby]

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

So typical: A lot of what you've brought up are western-centric. Why in God's name would you expect Thais to know or care about western history? Do you know anything about Asian and Thai history? Does that make you stupid?

There still needs to be a balance.

Thais perhaps need not know about Western history but an understanding of current world affairs is warranted.

Globalisation affects us alleven the rice farmer.

Thai students are being taught world history. Sometimes I walk into class after the Socials teacher and they're drawing and talking about WW2 and other countries. I just repeat it all in English and that's our English class. sometimes I just bring in maps and say let's go nuts. Students really want to know about the world!

[lostoday]

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

So typical: A lot of what you've brought up are western-centric. Why in God's name would you expect Thais to know or care about western history? Do you know anything about Asian and Thai history? Does that make you stupid?

There still needs to be a balance.

Thais perhaps need not know about Western history but an understanding of current world affairs is warranted.

Globalisation affects us alleven the rice farmer.

Thai students are being taught world history. Sometimes I walk into class after the Socials teacher and they're drawing and talking about WW2 and other countries. I just repeat it all in English and that's our English class. sometimes I just bring in maps and say let's go nuts. Students really want to know about the world!

We have a four year old in the family. She told me if I didn't take her to 7/11 she was going to run away to Uganda or Ethiopia. I was laughing to hard to ask her how she decided to run away to those places.

[duanebigsby]

Thai students are being taught world history. Sometimes I walk into class after the Socials teacher and they're drawing and talking about WW2 and other countries. I just repeat it all in English and that's our English class. sometimes I just bring in maps and say let's go nuts. Students really want to know about the world!

We have a four year old in the family. She told me if I didn't take her to 7/11 she was going to run away to Uganda or Ethiopia. I was laughing to hard to ask her how she decided to run away to those places.

did you tell her there are no Sevens in Uganda? Too funny!

[Stan42]

My one and a quarter cents (That's all I can spare):

I've directly seen and experienced this with the younger members in my big Thai family.

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

One must consider what is exactly being taught in Thai schools.

Look at the teachers: English is taught by young backpacking tourists who don't even have a degree in education, they just follow their text books and don't even speak a single word of Thai (Some of my friends from high school had to study for four years and earn a degree before they were qualified to teach). My Thai cousin studied German (probably because I'm German and his family has some sort of inferiority complex) for three years, he now proudly "teaches" German courses for 1'500thb per student when I, as a fluent speaking German, can clearly say he cannot even pronounce the words properly.

Therefore it shouldn't surprise anyone that employers automatically check if their applicants have been educated abroad or not. It's because they know how poor Thai education is, and spending a single year at a top university abroad instantly boosts your chances of getting a good job. But of course you need to be rich in the first place to afford attending a university abroad, let alone complete a four year BA degree there. So once again only the Hiso have the luxury of attending a top university and getting a good paying job. If you were born into a poor family, regardless of how superior your intelligence is, you're going to end up selling street food.

Nuts. You need to get out and meet some Thai graduates who make the cars, petroleum products, steel, and the thousands of companies that have Thai graduates on the payroll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Thailand

There are thousands of scholarships for poor students in Thailand. It is all on the internet if you but want to look. Many universities make contracts with students to pay for degrees by teaching at the university for 2 years after graduation. Many industrial companies award scholarships for poor students. There is an exam taken by poor teaching students that if passed they are awarded a 4 year scholarship in return for teaching for 4 years after graduation at government schools. So if the kid is smart and studies they can get an education regardless of financial means.

I forgot to mention, my nephew got into a top university last year after his parents bribed donated 300k.

[lostoday]

My one and a quarter cents (That's all I can spare):

I've directly seen and experienced this with the younger members in my big Thai family.

Ironically, Thai students work harder than Western students, have more homework, spend their holidays being tutored 24/7, but are still as dumb as a sack of hay. Ask any Thai teenager about, the four fundamental forces, WW2, the periodic table, evolution, or the rise of the Roman Empire and it's decline into the Dark Ages. Or simply ask them to name some of the most influential historical figures and exactly what they did.

One must consider what is exactly being taught in Thai schools.

Look at the teachers: English is taught by young backpacking tourists who don't even have a degree in education, they just follow their text books and don't even speak a single word of Thai (Some of my friends from high school had to study for four years and earn a degree before they were qualified to teach). My Thai cousin studied German (probably because I'm German and his family has some sort of inferiority complex) for three years, he now proudly "teaches" German courses for 1'500thb per student when I, as a fluent speaking German, can clearly say he cannot even pronounce the words properly.

Therefore it shouldn't surprise anyone that employers automatically check if their applicants have been educated abroad or not. It's because they know how poor Thai education is, and spending a single year at a top university abroad instantly boosts your chances of getting a good job. But of course you need to be rich in the first place to afford attending a university abroad, let alone complete a four year BA degree there. So once again only the Hiso have the luxury of attending a top university and getting a good paying job. If you were born into a poor family, regardless of how superior your intelligence is, you're going to end up selling street food.

Nuts. You need to get out and meet some Thai graduates who make the cars, petroleum products, steel, and the thousands of companies that have Thai graduates on the payroll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Thailand

There are thousands of scholarships for poor students in Thailand. It is all on the internet if you but want to look. Many universities make contracts with students to pay for degrees by teaching at the university for 2 years after graduation. Many industrial companies award scholarships for poor students. There is an exam taken by poor teaching students that if passed they are awarded a 4 year scholarship in return for teaching for 4 years after graduation at government schools. So if the kid is smart and studies they can get an education regardless of financial means.

I forgot to mention, my nephew got into a top university last year after his parents bribed donated 300k.

I'll bet Lulu paid more? 25 million to Wellesley. Same school Hillary Rodham went to back in the day. That Lulu is quite a chick 25 big ones USD in millions. You know what they say at Wellesley? Whatever Lulu wants Lulu gets. Lulu Chow Wang