Shophouse/townhouse vs Condo in Bangkok

[kanwisher]

We are starting a small family, and given the prices of condos near the BTS. I can get a 150sqm, 4 story townhouse for the same price for an extra 10 min walk, or even better with a shop house. Despite the ownership issue, has anyone bought these rather old townhouses or shophouses and remodeled them. There are a couple threads in thaivisa but never went anywhere. If you look at the history of brooklyn, which was largely a horribly bad place in the 50s. A lot of people remodeled old buildings. Seems to be a better longer term investment also, cause land in walking distance of BTS is always going to be scarce.

[kbelyeu]

Anyone?

[hhgz]

You can buy the structure, not the land, explained dozens of times on this thread. The land needs to be rented/leased/usufructed, also explained many times. Since you own the structure, you are free to remodel it at your pleasure. Many people have done so, and the hardest thing is to get the remodelers to complete the job for the cost negotiated, and at the quality specified.

[kbelyeu]

You can buy the structure, not the land, explained dozens of times on this thread. The land needs to be rented/leased/usufructed, also explained many times. Since you own the structure, you are free to remodel it at your pleasure. Many people have done so, and the hardest thing is to get the remodelers to complete the job for the cost negotiated, and at the quality specified.

True to Thaivisa form you have spouted nothing but drivel. If you don't have anything constructive to say why then why say anything at all?

Kurt

[DGS1244]

Having lived in Bangkok for many years I would go for the shop house option anyday. Condos can be fine but it is amazing how many end up with problems some serious requiring more money along the way. At least with the shop house you control what happens, just make sure who ever does any remodeling is well supervised at all times. The larger condos in Bangkok, not the 'rooms', are seriously overpriced for what you get.

[stbkk]

I live on a small (older) moo-baan which is made up of town-houses around a pool, communal area etc., which is 5 minutes walk from a sky train station.

There are several houses for sale on it. The prices being asked are a considerable saving on similar sized condo near a sky train, although with fewer facilities.

If you are interested PM me for contact details.

[Guest]

You can buy the structure, not the land, explained dozens of times on this thread. The land needs to be rented/leased/usufructed, also explained many times. Since you own the structure, you are free to remodel it at your pleasure. Many people have done so, and the hardest thing is to get the remodelers to complete the job for the cost negotiated, and at the quality specified.

True to Thaivisa form you have spouted nothing but drivel. If you don't have anything constructive to say why then why say anything at all?

Kurt

Kurt .. "Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot?"

He is underlining the fact that he will only own the shop house, much like a condo. "Between the lines' it begs the question, "who then will actually have their name on the deed for the LAND it sits on?" Many of us recognize that for the crap shoot it becomes years from now.

He is also saying, that it is a near nightmare to get fair priced quality work done even FOR A THAI .. now imagine how lovely it will be for a Farang.

That being said, if i were truly "all in" and dedicated to at least 10 years of living in the same place, yes ... shop house is visionary and could turn out very nicely if there is a "SoHo effect" in BKK years from now.

Condos are easy to buy, rent and sell .. they are high above the smog line, the rat line, the cockroach line and most important .. the water line.

I hardly noticed the flood years ago on floor 30 ... food for thought.

But I have to be honest about it, I did look at the same idea years ago .. there is something very cool about it, and if this guy has the time, money and grit it takes to get this done, more power to him.

[kbelyeu]

You can buy the structure, not the land, explained dozens of times on this thread. The land needs to be rented/leased/usufructed, also explained many times. Since you own the structure, you are free to remodel it at your pleasure. Many people have done so, and the hardest thing is to get the remodelers to complete the job for the cost negotiated, and at the quality specified.

True to Thaivisa form you have spouted nothing but drivel. If you don't have anything constructive to say why then why say anything at all?

Kurt

Kurt .. "Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot?"

He is underlining the fact that he will only own the shop house, much like a condo. "Between the lines' it begs the question, "who then will actually have their name on the deed for the LAND it sits on?" Many of us recognize that for the crap shoot it becomes years from now.

He is also saying, that it is a near nightmare to get fair priced quality work done even FOR A THAI .. now imagine how lovely it will be for a Farang.

That being said, if i were truly "all in" and dedicated to at least 10 years of living in the same place, yes ... shop house is visionary and could turn out very nicely if there is a "SoHo effect" in BKK years from now.

Condos are easy to buy, rent and sell .. they are high above the smog line, the rat line, the cockroach line and most important .. the water line.

I hardly noticed the flood years ago on floor 30 ... food for thought.

But I have to be honest about it, I did look at the same idea years ago .. there is something very cool about it, and if this guy has the time, money and grit it takes to get this done, more power to him.

Thanks for the response but I am a bit confused.

Are you saying when someone (not a foreigner) purchases a shop house then they don't own the land?

Kurt

[Phaeton]

Seems like a good idea. The only thing I noticed, was that sometimes these "attached" townhouses, your neighbor can let his place go to hell. I was renting a beautiful place, in Ban Chang, which was actually one of four units. But a couple of the other houses in this attached row of houses, were pretty much abandoned it seemed. I asked my landlord about this problem, and he suggested one scenario where the farang and thai spouse get divorced. She gets the house, but doesn't have the money to keep it up. I hope you will keep us informed about your search and decisions.

[DGS1244]

You can buy the structure, not the land, explained dozens of times on this thread. The land needs to be rented/leased/usufructed, also explained many times. Since you own the structure, you are free to remodel it at your pleasure. Many people have done so, and the hardest thing is to get the remodelers to complete the job for the cost negotiated, and at the quality specified.

True to Thaivisa form you have spouted nothing but drivel. If you don't have anything constructive to say why then why say anything at all?

Kurt

Kurt .. "Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot?"

He is underlining the fact that he will only own the shop house, much like a condo. "Between the lines' it begs the question, "who then will actually have their name on the deed for the LAND it sits on?" Many of us recognize that for the crap shoot it becomes years from now.

He is also saying, that it is a near nightmare to get fair priced quality work done even FOR A THAI .. now imagine how lovely it will be for a Farang.

That being said, if i were truly "all in" and dedicated to at least 10 years of living in the same place, yes ... shop house is visionary and could turn out very nicely if there is a "SoHo effect" in BKK years from now.

Condos are easy to buy, rent and sell .. they are high above the smog line, the rat line, the cockroach line and most important .. the water line.

I hardly noticed the flood years ago on floor 30 ... food for thought.

But I have to be honest about it, I did look at the same idea years ago .. there is something very cool about it, and if this guy has the time, money and grit it takes to get this done, more power to him.

Thanks for the response but I am a bit confused.

Are you saying when someone (not a foreigner) purchases a shop house then they don't own the land?

Kurt

What he is saying is that a Foreigner cannot own land, condo or shop house, he can own the building so you will need to put the ownership of the land in a Thais or Thai company's name and then arrange a lease on the land, normally for 30 years.

[boonchu]

I have bought 5 older properties over the years (in conjunction with my Thai wife) and have demolished 3 and renovated 2. It does take some time to find reliable works but I found the ones I have used most often by walking around the muu bahn and looking at their work. I always purchase materials myself and have the workers charge for labour only (sometimes use their contacts for other services) I pay them at the end of each week in arrears after checking the work, so far no problems.

[Tatsujin]

The only problem with "buying" a house, especially the townhouse/shophouse type, is that you just won't know who will be moving in next to you once you've performed your dream renovation. You could well wake up one morning to find 20 people living there, 5 cars (with parking for only one), scooters, babies, loud music, sitting/living on the sofa on the street, drinking, partying, selling food etc etc ... all right next to you.

[Guest]

You can buy the structure, not the land, explained dozens of times on this thread. The land needs to be rented/leased/usufructed, also explained many times. Since you own the structure, you are free to remodel it at your pleasure. Many people have done so, and the hardest thing is to get the remodelers to complete the job for the cost negotiated, and at the quality specified.

True to Thaivisa form you have spouted nothing but drivel. If you don't have anything constructive to say why then why say anything at all?

Kurt

Kurt .. "Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot?"

He is underlining the fact that he will only own the shop house, much like a condo. "Between the lines' it begs the question, "who then will actually have their name on the deed for the LAND it sits on?" Many of us recognize that for the crap shoot it becomes years from now.

He is also saying, that it is a near nightmare to get fair priced quality work done even FOR A THAI .. now imagine how lovely it will be for a Farang.

That being said, if i were truly "all in" and dedicated to at least 10 years of living in the same place, yes ... shop house is visionary and could turn out very nicely if there is a "SoHo effect" in BKK years from now.

Condos are easy to buy, rent and sell .. they are high above the smog line, the rat line, the cockroach line and most important .. the water line.

I hardly noticed the flood years ago on floor 30 ... food for thought.

But I have to be honest about it, I did look at the same idea years ago .. there is something very cool about it, and if this guy has the time, money and grit it takes to get this done, more power to him.

Thanks for the response but I am a bit confused.

Are you saying when someone (not a foreigner) purchases a shop house then they don't own the land?

Kurt

Kurt, It is a bit shocking here on Thai Visa to have you not know "Farang 101" information, and be so negative and critical of others.

For the 1,000 th time on Thai Visa:

Foreigners can not own land in the Kingdom.

They can own buildings / condos sitting on that land.

Therefore, only a Thai National or Thai Holding Company can own the land.

That is why 49% of a condo project can be sold "Freehold" to a Foreigner and they do have all the features and benefits of owning that condo.

I almost bought a riverside shop house with my (EX) Thia partner years ago. Turns out she was simply a Sukhumvit Hi-So Vampire who cheated me out a lot of money. (THAT is certainly not a new story.)

Thank god she did not own the land under my house !!!

But hey, at least i ain't bitter ! 555 !

Anyway, no disrespect intended to the OP, but many of us have learned the hard way that Thai women go from angel to serpent very quickly when the wheels fly off the bogey.

Did you know that "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" ... was a translation form the original Thai scripture?

I feel that to keep the relationship on equal footing and in the long run, happier .. it is best for Foreigners to rent. Thinks change quickly in Thailand.

If they insist on buying, make it a Freehold Condo with your name on the deed.

By the way, buyers in Thailand must learn to understand that "profit" must be calculated in the currency of origin.

So many people here brag , "I bought it for 10,000,000 and sold it for 11,000,000" ... not accounting for the fact that it now costs that much more to buy your currency back! You are at break even!

[Minnehaha]

Shophouse renovation is not easy. They are narrow so rooms are small. You go up a lot of god damn stairs to go from room to room. That gets old very fast.

One way to avoid that is to buy 2 or more next to each other. Then renovate and you have a pair of duplex - 2 x 2 on top of each other (assuming 4 stories).

Walls are thin, and the thicker you make them the less space you have. Neighbors are always an issue with these things.

Some good renovations include that Vietnamese restaurant and other shops across from Villa in Soi 39. They took out the ceiling on the 2nd floor and got a super high ceiling so the ground floor looks larger. But it is still narrow.

[mike324]

I think the first question you should answer is how long you plan on being here, if less than 10 years then I suggest go the condo route and buy a used condo.

I am also in the same situation with an addition to the family and thinking about trading up from a 74 sqm condo to a townhouse.

Aside from land ownership issue. Here are the pro and cons

Condo Pros:

Security

Fitness

Swimming Pool

Technician on hand

Condo Cons:

Yearly maintenance fees

Size

Townhouse Pros:

Larger living area

Pets

Townhouse Cons:

No security

Neighbors can be bad (loud music, dirty surrounding, trash etc)

Cars parked all over the place making streets narrow

Renovation costs can be pricey and may take up to 1 year depending on what you want done

Renovation is another issue on its own. Townhouses can range from 2 stories to 5. I think its best to buy two units side by side to create a decent living space with car park. What is your budget and location you are looking at?

Edited June 15, 2015 by mike324

[Heng]

Townhouse/shophouse all the way IF and only if the ownership issue is secure. For most foreigners, it will only be as secure as any relationship they are in or the political climate regarding corporate ownership of land.

Just the basic issue that I prefer that I don't have 1-80 families living above or below me in a condo who likely have different standards regarding fire safely and bathroom tile maintainence (among other things).... the grout does need to be redone periodically and water does have to go somewhere you know.

:-)

[kanwisher]

Mike324, thats a good list of pros/cons. At least where I live (Ekkamai), there isn't as much a problem with bad neighbors. All the condos are getting scooped up by developers, the ones that aren't, are getting remodeled. The biggest problem I see with living in a townhouse, is there are almost no sidewalks around. Not sure how I feel about my children growing up on a street like that.

Btw apparently renovating these townhouses is fairly popular in thai circles, if you google for รีโนเวททาวน์เฮาส์ in thai. You'll find 100s of articles.

Edited June 15, 2015 by kanwisher

[coulson]

I got a place not far from you, within 15min walk to BTS. (2 min motocy) after living in the building a few months.

I looked around the area and on sales websites, it was extremely off putting. Most places on offer within my desired budget were small, with no decent communal space and high management fees.I also do not trust the quality of workmanship on many of these new builds. I noticed after a while a lot of signs on the soi, these places were not even on the net. Then the management office noticeboard, revised rental/ sale listing on the block got updated. The ballpark came down dramatically from 37k to 21k baht per sqm and left enough over to renovate (mostly removing sh1tty built in furniture) and furnish.

I looked at one soi house, aside from not getting the deed in my name, I was put off by the soi dogs, the bikes whizzing past and it would have taken a lot more time/ money to fix up. Not to mention the idea of living on a back street would entirely depend on the location.

I like the place I'm in, older but solid construction, sizeable communal area and decent pool. Couple of shops, mostly Thai owners/ tenants with a few ex pats, decent security and quietly tucked off the main rd. Management fees are a pain but not the highest, and whenever I needed anything done, theres always a spare hand available immediately and not expensive.

Good luck with the search, don't limit it to the internet.

[kanwisher]

You saw prices as low as 21l per sqm? I've never seen below 66k sqm. Was curious where you were looking around Ekkamai? If you don't want to post can you PM me? I can't PM you for some reason.

I got a place not far from you, within 15min walk to BTS. (2 min motocy) after living in the building a few months.

I looked around the area and on sales websites, it was extremely off putting. Most places on offer within my desired budget were small, with no decent communal space and high management fees.I also do not trust the quality of workmanship on many of these new builds. I noticed after a while a lot of signs on the soi, these places were not even on the net. Then the management office noticeboard, revised rental/ sale listing on the block got updated. The ballpark came down dramatically from 37k to 21k baht per sqm and left enough over to renovate (mostly removing sh1tty built in furniture) and furnish.

I looked at one soi house, aside from not getting the deed in my name, I was put off by the soi dogs, the bikes whizzing past and it would have taken a lot more time/ money to fix up. Not to mention the idea of living on a back street would entirely depend on the location.

I like the place I'm in, older but solid construction, sizeable communal area and decent pool. Couple of shops, mostly Thai owners/ tenants with a few ex pats, decent security and quietly tucked off the main rd. Management fees are a pain but not the highest, and whenever I needed anything done, theres always a spare hand available immediately and not expensive.

Good luck with the search, don't limit it to the internet.

[coulson]

You saw prices as low as 21l per sqm? I've never seen below 66k sqm. Was curious where you were looking around Ekkamai? If you don't want to post can you PM me? I can't PM you for some reason.

You got mail

[kanwisher]

Good advice all, I walked around for a few hours today, and found 3 more units not on the internet. You have to ignore the security guards, even if you speak simple thai to them. "I want to buy a house", they will be like no houses, or one even tried to ask how much money I had. Have to get to the back office.

[DrTuner]

Having lived in a BKK concrete box for five months now, I'm just about ready to open the purse strings and get one of 'em townhouses for my wife so I can invade it. Having your own front door is a must.

[trogers]

When city hall cannot even control shop houses to have proper drainage pipes for their shaded shop front, don't expect your remodeled unit to be matched by even a repainted unit on both sides.

I detest walking past the front of shop houses while trying to avoid the drips from their air condenser units.

[nowork114]

Just few more things.

You can buy townhouse in moo baan (secured compound) or on the street. If you but in moo baan, usually there are some facilities (gym, pool, security, playground etc.) with yearly fees approx 15,000 THB (500+ townhouse moo baan). If you buy on the street, no common fees, no facilities and usually no car park. As you said you plan family and sooner or later you will need a car. Make sure the house has a (secured) place to park.

[mike324]

Mike324, thats a good list of pros/cons. At least where I live (Ekkamai), there isn't as much a problem with bad neighbors. All the condos are getting scooped up by developers, the ones that aren't, are getting remodeled. The biggest problem I see with living in a townhouse, is there are almost no sidewalks around. Not sure how I feel about my children growing up on a street like that.

Btw apparently renovating these townhouses is fairly popular in thai circles, if you google for รีโนเวททาวน์เฮาส์ in thai. You'll find 100s of articles.

I'm a big fan of townhouse living. Ekamai area is quite pricey but if you need any sources I can post real estate sites to help with your search, but looks like you are already on top of it.

Ideally somewhere close to any one of the parks around Bangkok would be best so kids can ride their bikes and play in the afternoon. The other con is that kids have nowhere to play outdoors.

[ldnguy]

Mike324, thats a good list of pros/cons. At least where I live (Ekkamai), there isn't as much a problem with bad neighbors. All the condos are getting scooped up by developers, the ones that aren't, are getting remodeled. The biggest problem I see with living in a townhouse, is there are almost no sidewalks around. Not sure how I feel about my children growing up on a street like that.

Btw apparently renovating these townhouses is fairly popular in thai circles, if you google for รีโนเวททาวน์เฮาส์ in thai. You'll find 100s of articles.

I'm a big fan of townhouse living. Ekamai area is quite pricey but if you need any sources I can post real estate sites to help with your search, but looks like you are already on top of it.

Ideally somewhere close to any one of the parks around Bangkok would be best so kids can ride their bikes and play in the afternoon. The other con is that kids have nowhere to play outdoors.

Can you post those sites, as this is something I'm also interested in.

Edited June 17, 2015 by ldnguy

[kbelyeu]

You can buy the structure, not the land, explained dozens of times on this thread. The land needs to be rented/leased/usufructed, also explained many times. Since you own the structure, you are free to remodel it at your pleasure. Many people have done so, and the hardest thing is to get the remodelers to complete the job for the cost negotiated, and at the quality specified.

True to Thaivisa form you have spouted nothing but drivel. If you don't have anything constructive to say why then why say anything at all?

Kurt

Kurt .. "Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot?"

He is underlining the fact that he will only own the shop house, much like a condo. "Between the lines' it begs the question, "who then will actually have their name on the deed for the LAND it sits on?" Many of us recognize that for the crap shoot it becomes years from now.

He is also saying, that it is a near nightmare to get fair priced quality work done even FOR A THAI .. now imagine how lovely it will be for a Farang.

That being said, if i were truly "all in" and dedicated to at least 10 years of living in the same place, yes ... shop house is visionary and could turn out very nicely if there is a "SoHo effect" in BKK years from now.

Condos are easy to buy, rent and sell .. they are high above the smog line, the rat line, the cockroach line and most important .. the water line.

I hardly noticed the flood years ago on floor 30 ... food for thought.

But I have to be honest about it, I did look at the same idea years ago .. there is something very cool about it, and if this guy has the time, money and grit it takes to get this done, more power to him.

Thanks for the response but I am a bit confused.

Are you saying when someone (not a foreigner) purchases a shop house then they don't own the land?

Kurt

Kurt, It is a bit shocking here on Thai Visa to have you not know "Farang 101" information, and be so negative and critical of others.

For the 1,000 th time on Thai Visa:

Foreigners can not own land in the Kingdom.

They can own buildings / condos sitting on that land.

Therefore, only a Thai National or Thai Holding Company can own the land.

That is why 49% of a condo project can be sold "Freehold" to a Foreigner and they do have all the features and benefits of owning that condo.

I almost bought a riverside shop house with my (EX) Thia partner years ago. Turns out she was simply a Sukhumvit Hi-So Vampire who cheated me out a lot of money. (THAT is certainly not a new story.)

Thank god she did not own the land under my house !!!

But hey, at least i ain't bitter ! 555 !

Anyway, no disrespect intended to the OP, but many of us have learned the hard way that Thai women go from angel to serpent very quickly when the wheels fly off the bogey.

Did you know that "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" ... was a translation form the original Thai scripture?

I feel that to keep the relationship on equal footing and in the long run, happier .. it is best for Foreigners to rent. Thinks change quickly in Thailand.

If they insist on buying, make it a Freehold Condo with your name on the deed.

By the way, buyers in Thailand must learn to understand that "profit" must be calculated in the currency of origin.

So many people here brag , "I bought it for 10,000,000 and sold it for 11,000,000" ... not accounting for the fact that it now costs that much more to buy your currency back! You are at break even!

Maybe you should read my post again as I absolutely was not referring to a foreigner troll

sent from my Sony Z3 using tapatalk.

[mike324]

Mike324, thats a good list of pros/cons. At least where I live (Ekkamai), there isn't as much a problem with bad neighbors. All the condos are getting scooped up by developers, the ones that aren't, are getting remodeled. The biggest problem I see with living in a townhouse, is there are almost no sidewalks around. Not sure how I feel about my children growing up on a street like that.

Btw apparently renovating these townhouses is fairly popular in thai circles, if you google for รีโนเวททาวน์เฮาส์ in thai. You'll find 100s of articles.

I'm a big fan of townhouse living. Ekamai area is quite pricey but if you need any sources I can post real estate sites to help with your search, but looks like you are already on top of it.

Ideally somewhere close to any one of the parks around Bangkok would be best so kids can ride their bikes and play in the afternoon. The other con is that kids have nowhere to play outdoors.

Can you post those sites, as this is something I'm also interested in.

www.ddproperty (there are a lot of local agents listing there, so you can even ask them to find houses for you)

http://www.acuterealty.com/index.asp

http://www.plus.co.th

The first link has more listing by private agents, so there are more listings that are outside of the normal popular areas. There are many other real estate links, I think the three above covers a lot.