Thai-US ties hinge on 'return of democracy'

[micmichd]

US "protection" meant "US invasion" in too many cases. Who guarantees the USA would accept the result of an election?

[Peterbkk7]

Since when is democracy suitable for Thailand?

Benevolent dictatorship is what the country needs.

[phoenixdoglover]

Since when is democracy suitable for Thailand?

Benevolent dictatorship is what the country needs.

This begs the question, "Why?"

[baboon]

Since when is democracy suitable for Thailand?

Benevolent dictatorship is what the country needs.

And what do you propose for the country once the benevolent dictatorship decides not to be benevolent any more? Oh, that's right, you p!ss off elsewhere and leave them to it once you have no further use for them...

[TomJoad]

Since when is democracy suitable for Thailand?

Benevolent dictatorship is what the country needs.

This begs the question, "Why?"

Dysfunctional democracies can be just as dangerous as dictatorships. A dysfunctional one in Germany gave Hitler a way into power in 1933. Then of course there's the Iraq fiasco (complements of Bush).

The most saber-rattling Thailand ever seems to do is squabble with Cambodia over a temple once in a while.

[lostoday]

US "protection" meant "US invasion" in too many cases. Who guarantees the USA would accept the result of an election?

Anyone with half a brain. The USA didn't even invade Thailand during WWII when they were the enemy.

[micmichd]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_in_World_War_IIttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Bangkok_in_World_War_II

Feel free to check yourself. Thailand was bombed by US in WW2 because Japanese occupants used Thailand as a stage for their attacks on the allies. There was a strong resistance against Thai policy within Thailand, so Thailand eventually became neutral again.

What do USA want now?

Get an ally or accept Thai neutrality?

Remember how US military lost the Vietnam war: not only against VC, but also against their own GIs, part of whom started to shoot their officers instead of fighting against VC.

Feel free to read David Cortright "Soldiers in revolt" about the Vietnam war disaster.

I was in Thailand before the 2014 coup, and I talked to many Red Shirts. None of them wanted Thaksin back. They were actually fed up about only having the choice between two elites.

Now have a look at the US model of democracy. It is also only a choice between two elites. With the possibility of a strong "grass root" resistance inside the US.

USA should better care about "their own house" before imposing a doubtful political system on foreign countries.

USA now hide their interests behide a law from 1961.

May I remind you about Chile when it comes to acceptance of democratic elections?

US Aid to a *neutral* Thailand would be fine I guess. This is a peaceful country, not a US ally, and able to solve internal conflicts without US dirigism.

Edited June 16, 2015 by micmichd

[lostoday]

Mic. Thai ally Japanese. Invaded Burma with Japan. Seri Thai resistance is post war fiction. USA bombed Bangkok many times in non Japanese areas. Thailand declared war on UK and USA. Thailand Invaded and occupied by British 1946 and forced to pay war reparations and war crimes trials. Check out quick before all real history re written. USA now has close mitary ties with Thailand. Google rendition base Thailand or something like that. Check Thai equipment and training and maintenance.

Edited June 16, 2015 by lostoday

[micmichd]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Thai_Movement

all not true?

[lostoday]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Thai_Movement

all not true?

[lostoday]

Mic. Thailand has been very busy re writing ww2 history. Google a bit for real info. Same Vietnam, political not military loss. I don't want to take up forum space if you want links I'll pm.

Edited June 16, 2015 by lostoday

[micmichd]

Hopefully nobody thinks I'm anti-American.

In fact, I admire the USA for its system of checks and balances. Especially the free press (Washington Post) which forced President Nixon to resign before he got impeached.

In my opinion, democracy can only work if the ones in power don't get alienated from their voters.

[jdinasia]

A bit rich, to say the least, coming from the representative of a country which has cynically used the so-called "war on terror" as a pretext to systematically undermine the democratic rights of its own citizens and attack other nations without just cause.

Feigned American concern over political freedom and human rights in Thailand should fool no-one.

What the White House really wants is a return to the palmy, freewheeling days when their billionaire proxy, Thaksin Shinawatra, presided over the Kingdom's affairs. The military-led caretaker administration, pledged to squeeze corruption and cronyism out of the system, is equally determined to keep the Oriental wolf of Wall Street from their door at any cost.

So, it's seconds out. . .

The longer a general election is delayed, the louder one can expect the howls of US-fostered international outrage to become. With an increasingly belligerent China actively seeking closer political and economic ties with Thailand, relations between the US and its diminutive but strategically important Asian allay could be about to enter a crucial new phase.

Not hardly it is a US law passed in 1961 that is withholding money from Thailand among other things.

Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (as added by Public Law 110–161) [22 U.S.C. 2378d], and any provision of an Act making appropriations for the Department of State, foreign operations, and related programs that restricts assistance to the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree.

Now don't you feel better knowing the truth. Nothing to do with the White House or Thaksin. But you baiters really go the extra mile trying to change every thread into a Thaksin bash. You hoping we will just give up and you win again by stifling rational on topic discussion.

This thread is about a return to democracy not the return of Thaksin. If you want to talk about Thaksin - open another thread.

Yet the law in question doesn't end either military aid, or other aid. It prevents the sale of arms.

The US military is still working with the Thai military. USAID is still operating here. JUSMAG THAI is still up and running. The US Army is still sending ROTC cadets to help train Thai pre-cadets and RTA cadets. Arms are still coming to Thailand, although not directly from the US.

Does the US care about democracy in Thailand? Not particularly. Do they make the appropriate noises, and then carry on with the status quo? Yes.

There are a few reasons for the US attitudes. One is indeed that the state of "democracy" in Thailand under Thaksin and his proxies was a step back from the already very poor state of democracy here.

The others include the US enlightened self-interest in having Thailand as a stable ally in light of what will be happening here soon.

So.... Millions? Not really.

[micmichd]

So, US military industrial complex needs 'democracy' in Thailand to sell arms - ie suck money out of Thailand, right?

[lostoday]

So, US military industrial complex needs 'democracy' in Thailand to sell arms - ie suck money out of Thailand, right?

I think you might want to look at Sweden first for sucking lately. In mid-October 2007 The Thai Cabinet approved a budget of 34.4 billion baht (about $1.1 billion) for the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) to purchase 12 JAS-39 Gripen multi-role fighters to replace its aging fleet of F-5 B/E Tiger II aircraft (the Israeli-upgraded F-5Ts with DASH helmet displays and Python missiles will remain in service). The RTAF would also buy 2 Saab S-1000/ S340 Erieye Airborne Early Warning aircraft, together with associated equipment and services.

A recent sale to Thailand has expanded Saab’s horizons somewhat, as the Gripen beat out the SU-30s favored by the previous Thai government. Lockheed Martin’s F-16 had been considered the leading contender to replace the RTAF’s 15-25 aging F-5B/Es, given Thailand’s extensive history with that aircraft. Other candidates included Russia’s MiG-29, and France’s Rafale. Saab had a very competitive offering on cost and performance, but in order to win, they had to throw in a very significant “something extra”: their Saab 340-AEW AWACS aircraft. And don't forget the AV-8S Harrier IIs.

My favorites the Walker Bulldog coup tanks are really getting old. They went into service in 1953 and everyone knows a coup tank has got to look spiffy and at 60 years old it is sometimes difficult to look spiffy (believe me I know).

It would be a good topic though, "who sucks the most out of Thailand?" I think it would have to be the shadow banking system from China among other places.

I'm sure others know more than I about hoovering Thais.

[gandalf12]

US "protection" meant "US invasion" in too many cases. Who guarantees the USA would accept the result of an election?

Anyone with half a brain. The USA didn't even invade Thailand during WWII when they were the enemy.

The USA tried to stay out of it all together. If Pearl Harbor had not been bombed they wouldnt never have entered the war. Thailand remained neutral so how would they have been an enermy?

Edited June 17, 2015 by gandalf12

[lostoday]

US "protection" meant "US invasion" in too many cases. Who guarantees the USA would accept the result of an election?

Anyone with half a brain. The USA didn't even invade Thailand during WWII when they were the enemy.

The USA tried to stay out of it all together. If Pearl Harbor had not been bombed they wouldnt never have entered the war. Thailand remained neutral so how would they have been an enermy?

1940 Thailand starts war with France. See Franco Thai War.

1941 It was only a few hours after the Japanese invasion began when Phibun, the pro-Japanese premier, ordered surrender and subsequently signed an alliance pact with Japan, which included a declaration of war on the United States and Great Britain.

E Bruce Reynolds, the author of Thailand's Secret War: OSS, SOE, and the Free Thai Underground during World War II, the most comprehensive critical work on the subject.

You are also wrong about the entry of the US into WWII but it would be off topic to tell you about it. Sorry

[VIPinthailand]

don't tell me that the USA have a democracy.

it's not because you vote once every 4 years for a schmuck for the white house that you can call it a democracy.

anyway, Thailand don't need to receive lessons from a country which has soon 20t$ debt and 80t$ derivate debt.

No USA bashing but face the reality. if you want a democracy, clean in front of your door first.

Edited June 26, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[AZBill]

Restored? When did Thailand ever have it? It's unfortunate that Thailand can't send over hordes of illegal aliens promising to vote democrat upon receiving citizenship. Relations would be just fine then.