US: White gunman caught in killing of 9 in historic black church

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Please stay on topic.

[Neurath]

This is a terrible act - but clearly done by an individual who is insane and should be judged accordingly.

In an interview with a local I saw on the BBC last night, if you reversed the words 'black' and 'white' in his comments, they would never have aired it because of how racist it was.

But the other way around it's OK.

Racism should be treated equally for both sides.

Yeah, this incident is the perfect opportunity to highlight the issue of deplorable racism against whites.

[contraian]

In Thailand the most common occurrence is when two thai are sitting drinking whiskey all day and one says the wrong thing or calls him something that offends him .... he goes home and comes back and shoots the other.

In America it's a rant racist issue or problem and the guy goes home, comes back and shoots nine in a church.

If there were strict gun laws in place and these people could not own and are not allowed to have a gun, then they cannot shoot anyone. !!

how hard is it to work out.

Are you from the US? I only ask because anyone who has lived there for any amount of time knows there are multitudes of reasons why people get shot with guns, Just like in any other country. Racism is just one small reason. Did you know that most of the crimes and murders against blacks in the US are committed by other blacks? You won't know that if your just listening to today's agenda driven US media. If you did come from the US then you already know there's strict gun laws in place.

If you have lived there and you don't know that then you haven't been paying attention or you've never tried to obtain a weapon legally.

The main issue in the US right now about guns is you have the democrats who want to strip the right to own from law abiding citizens. The problem they have is that it's a constitutional right for law abiding people to bear arms and the leftist in the US can't stand that law. So they have an agenda to try and force law abiding people who don't agree with them, to give up their weapons. That's just never going to happen. So every time there's a gun incident the liberal media joins forces to demonize law abiding gun owners. It's as simple as that. Here's one last note. Let's say by waving a magical wand all guns were vanished from everyone. You don't think determined people won't find another way to kill?

[samran]

Picture I saw, he was wearing a bullet proof jacket, and appears to have a black eye...

Just hope they have the right guy.

Luckily he wasn't arrested at a pool party while dressed in swimmers. Imagine the force they'd have to use then!!

[Neurath]

From your quandl.com link (OECD) murders per 100,000 (most recent year)

USA - 5.2

Mexico - 23.4

I guess the USA needs to bring in more violent Mexicans to get its rate on par.

I wonder what the rate would be if just the illegal-resident and black-on-black murders were omitted.

Quite true that the homicide rates for black men between the ages of 15-35 is very, very high. Very good book on this is Ghettocide: A True Story of Murder in America.

Book goes some way in answering why it is so intractably high.

There are some, and I'm not saying your are one them, who think that the only way to reduce the murder rate in the US is to kill more young black men. They after all do most of the killing, so it just stands to reason.

[nemrut]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

"....What is interesting, is generally speaking the people who would like to see firearms banned in America, want the death penalty banned as well."

No one is saying ban firearms so quit speaking hyperbole. Many democrats own firearms so obviously trying to ban them will get no where.

[nemrut]

In Thailand the most common occurrence is when two thai are sitting drinking whiskey all day and one says the wrong thing or calls him something that offends him .... he goes home and comes back and shoots the other.

In America it's a rant racist issue or problem and the guy goes home, comes back and shoots nine in a church.

If there were strict gun laws in place and these people could not own and are not allowed to have a gun, then they cannot shoot anyone. !!

how hard is it to work out.

"...Racism is just one small reason. Did you know that most of the crimes and murders against blacks in the US are committed by other blacks? You won't know that if your just listening to today's agenda driven US media. If you did come from the US then you already know there's strict gun laws in place."

The main issue in the US right now about guns is you have the democrats who want to strip the right to own from law abiding citizens. The problem they have is that it's a constitutional right for law abiding people to bear arms and the leftist in the US can't stand that law. So they have an agenda to try and force law abiding people who don't agree with them, to give up their weapons. "

Racism in US is not 'just one small reason' but the root of the problem in the US, as its history is grounded in violence and subjugation of non-white persons. Easy to conveniently forget that and deny any responsibility while being the primary beneficiary of such actions generations later.

As for crimes committed by blacks against blacks what's your point? Most crimes against whites in US are committed by other whites. Do you have some silly graph about black violence increasing gun violence...

No one is trying to strip rights to own guns 'legally' in US so quit talking nonsense. What has been attempted is to pass legislation, which the NRA strongly opposed and defeated, requiring background checks on gun sales at gun shows and on the Internet.

Why should anyone be allowed to buy a firearm on the Internet let alone a semi-automatic online without any verification?

[Jingthing]

Most violent crimes in the U.S. are just violent crimes and not motivated by hatred against a class of people.

Most U.S. states (but not South Carolina) can make the charges more severe if it can be proven the crime was motivated by hatred of a class of people (generally about race, religion, or sexuality).

This isn't about that really, other crimes that didn't have such a hate element.

Like if a black man robs a white guy with a gun to get money, that's an armed robbery, not a hate crime, unless there is hard evidence of a hate motivation.

I still am not getting now that we know this Southern dude wanted to start a race war that his massacre isn't being openly called domestic terrorism.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[mikebike]

In 2012 only 259 "justifiable homicides" involving a private citizen were reported in the USA, compared to 8,342 criminal homicides committed with a gun.

Put another way, for every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. And that does not take into account "tens of thousands" of gun-related suicides and unintentional shootings.

The influential National Rifle Association contends that "guns are necessary for self-defence".

"But this gun industry propaganda has no basis in fact, in a nation of more than 300 million firearms, it is striking how rarely guns are used in self-defense."

Edited June 19, 2015 by mikebike

[contraian]

"Racism in US is not 'just one small reason' but the root of the problem in the US, as its history is grounded in violence and subjugation of non-white persons. Easy to conveniently forget that and deny any responsibility while being the primary beneficiary of such actions generations later."

What an arrogant comment from a know it all liberal. Maybe you have benefited immensely from owning slaves but I sure haven't and

how would it be easy to forget that there was a time LONG ago when slaves were owned in the US? The media reminds everyone constantly as

do the know all's like yourself.

Blacks have been given every opportunity to succeed over the past 40 years at least.

If they choose not to do the hard work necessary to build a career then that's on them.

So stop making excuses for people regardless of color when they refuse to do what's necessary to build a better life for themselves and their families.

When it comes to racists, whites don't have that market cornered. There's many blacks who are just as racist as any other group.

As far as what's the point about black on black crime it should be obvious, why isn't it?

As far as weapons purchases I just wish voting in a US election had the same background and credential checks as trying to purchase a weapon. If

​that occurred I doubt seriously if Democrats could ever win a fair election.

[connda]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

Yes, it's that simple. But in America, it's anything but. The pro-gun folks are already out firing with both barrels (in a manner of speaking), saying that this could only happen in a "gun-free zone." Gun ownership is so entrenched in the American psyche that I can't see anything changing in our lifetimes. The pro-gun lobby and the people who support them are so powerful and well-funded that even politicians (read people who make laws) won't mess with them. So get used to it, America, this will keep happening over and over again.

How come none of you liberal gun-control types are calling for the disarmament of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Ukraine, Libya, etc, etc, etc where gun related horror stories and mass murder are a daily occurrence? Where do more gun related deaths occur: The Southwest US or Mexico? There is carnage happening in Mexico, but nobody chimes it for the disarmament of all Mexican citizens.

Come on. Every time there is a gun crime in Thailand, start pounding the OPs with calls for the disarmament of the Thai people.

Ya'll are just a bit hypocritical don't you think? I do.

[Jingthing]

Just found this article about the question of terrorism and Charleston.

Seems that issue is getting some attention:

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/18/8807433/charleston-shooting-terrorism

Yes, Charleston was terrorism. Denying that isn't just wrong, it's offensive.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[connda]

In 2012 only 259 "justifiable homicides" involving a private citizen were reported in the USA, compared to 8,342 criminal homicides committed with a gun.

Put another way, for every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. And that does not take into account "tens of thousands" of gun-related suicides and unintentional shootings.

The influential National Rifle Association contends that "guns are necessary for self-defence".

"But this gun industry propaganda has no basis in fact, in a nation of more than 300 million firearms, it is striking how rarely guns are used in self-defense."

You're confused. Really! Why aren't there more 'justifiable homicides' by average citizens who legally carry weapons? Because in the States that have concealed carry (or open carry) laws, violent criminals think twice and will go for the 'easiest prey'. And 259 justifiable homicides goes to show that the average citizen who owns and carries weapons do so responsibility. But this is like talking to a brick wall. You'll never understand.

Edited June 19, 2015 by connda

[connda]

Yet another shooting in a "gun free" zone. One can only imagine the carnage if the whole country was so.

It's about the mentally ill, that write and believe, such rubbish.

The ad-hominem attack is a logical fallacy. Try again.

He can't try again. It's like a checker player wanting to get the best of someone who plays chess.

[steven100]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

Yes, it's that simple. But in America, it's anything but. The pro-gun folks are already out firing with both barrels (in a manner of speaking), saying that this could only happen in a "gun-free zone." Gun ownership is so entrenched in the American psyche that I can't see anything changing in our lifetimes. The pro-gun lobby and the people who support them are so powerful and well-funded that even politicians (read people who make laws) won't mess with them. So get used to it, America, this will keep happening over and over again.

How come none of you liberal gun-control types are calling for the disarmament of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Ukraine, Libya, etc, etc, etc where gun related horror stories and mass murder are a daily occurrence? Where do more gun related deaths occur: The Southwest US or Mexico? There is carnage happening in Mexico, but nobody chimes it for the disarmament of all Mexican citizens.

Come on. Every time there is a gun crime in Thailand, start pounding the OPs with calls for the disarmament of the Thai people.

Ya'll are just a bit hypocritical don't you think? I do.

hmmmm... yeah, but to be honest I don't care about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Ukraine, Libya, etc, etc, etc ...

You have to start somewhere ... let them all shoot each other ... Everyone knows all those governments are cheats, thiefs, crooks otherwise they would stop Boko Haram , Taliban and other terrorists ...

Please don't try to us those places as your argument for defence ...

I was more thinking about US and home ... we need to get society thinking better and that has got to be a start ??

Edited June 19, 2015 by steven100

[chuckd]

<<snip>>

hmmmm... yeah, but to be honest I don't care about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Ukraine, Libya, etc, etc, etc ...

You have to start somewhere ... let them all shoot each other ... Everyone knows all those governments are cheats, thiefs, crooks otherwise they would stop Boko Haram , Taliban and other terrorists ...

Please don't try to us those places as your argument for defence ...

I was more thinking about US and home ... we need to get society thinking better and that has got to be a start ??

Just curious, where is "home" for you?

[connda]

But you'll never hear about this AP article about 9 people being shot in Bridgeport, CT in the US last week, and note that there is absolutely no reference to race.

http://www.ctpost.com/news/crime/article/9-shot-1-killed-at-Bridgeport-housing-complex-6320678.php

If the link above is not allowed, just Google "9 shot at housing complex; 1 woman struck while in shower" to link to the Associate Press story.

What I find disturbing is the 'race baiting' discourses that are originating from main stream media and then are further hyped and inflamed by politicians.

What's the difference between the shooting of nine people in a 'black church' by a 'white man' that makes "World News", and the shooting of nine people of unspecificed race in a Bridgeport, Connecticut housing complex by shooters of unspecified race. Why didn't the AP writer take the time to specify the race of the victims, the shooter, and the predominate race of those within the housing complex?

Use your analytical skills!

Stop reacting and think: What is the difference between these two stories?

Think: What is the agenda? Why is one story hyped on the US and world stage, and the other allowed to fall off into obscurity?

Edited June 19, 2015 by connda

[thaibeachlovers]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

Yep but 95% of America wants gun control of some kind but your gun lobby wasn't as strong as ours. Yea also your pm got <deleted> for passing said law. Vice did an interview with him. He actually put the country before himself. Shocking. Not going to happen in USA.

The gang bangers want gun control, then they won't need to worry about a potential victim being armed. NB the gangbangers have no problem getting all the guns they want.

[thaibeachlovers]

In Thailand the most common occurrence is when two thai are sitting drinking whiskey all day and one says the wrong thing or calls him something that offends him .... he goes home and comes back and shoots the other.

In America it's a rant racist issue or problem and the guy goes home, comes back and shoots nine in a church.

If there were strict gun laws in place and these people could not own and are not allowed to have a gun, then they cannot shoot anyone. !!

how hard is it to work out.

Are you from the US? I only ask because anyone who has lived there for any amount of time knows there are multitudes of reasons why people get shot with guns, Just like in any other country. Racism is just one small reason. Did you know that most of the crimes and murders against blacks in the US are committed by other blacks? You won't know that if your just listening to today's agenda driven US media. If you did come from the US then you already know there's strict gun laws in place.

If you have lived there and you don't know that then you haven't been paying attention or you've never tried to obtain a weapon legally.

The main issue in the US right now about guns is you have the democrats who want to strip the right to own from law abiding citizens. The problem they have is that it's a constitutional right for law abiding people to bear arms and the leftist in the US can't stand that law. So they have an agenda to try and force law abiding people who don't agree with them, to give up their weapons. That's just never going to happen. So every time there's a gun incident the liberal media joins forces to demonize law abiding gun owners. It's as simple as that. Here's one last note. Let's say by waving a magical wand all guns were vanished from everyone. You don't think determined people won't find another way to kill?

Obama lost no time in politicizing Charleston to call for arms control.

[DavisH]

In 2012 only 259 "justifiable homicides" involving a private citizen were reported in the USA, compared to 8,342 criminal homicides committed with a gun.

Put another way, for every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. And that does not take into account "tens of thousands" of gun-related suicides and unintentional shootings.

The influential National Rifle Association contends that "guns are necessary for self-defence".

"But this gun industry propaganda has no basis in fact, in a nation of more than 300 million firearms, it is striking how rarely guns are used in self-defense."

...and how many of those justifiable homicides are carried out by law enforcement officers in the line of duty? Considering myself a law abiding citizen, I'd be really nervous about using a gun in any but the most extreme circumstances. I mean, good people do not murder other people. Imagine my house get invaded, but I hesitate for just one second in using my weapon. The intruder sees me armed and I'm dead. Had I not been armed I do not pose a threat to the intruder. I could still be killed (for the thrill), but it is much less likely. I think I'd pass on owning a gun. But maybe that's just my Australian upbringing.

[CMNightRider]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

"....What is interesting, is generally speaking the people who would like to see firearms banned in America, want the death penalty banned as well."

No one is saying ban firearms so quit speaking hyperbole. Many democrats own firearms so obviously trying to ban them will get no where.

Gee nemrut, I didn't exaggerate about anything. Although, you are right that trying to ban guns in America, will go no where.

[connda]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

Yep but 95% of America wants gun control of some kind but your gun lobby wasn't as strong as ours. Yea also your pm got <deleted> for passing said law. Vice did an interview with him. He actually put the country before himself. Shocking. Not going to happen in USA.

"Yep but 95% of America wants gun control of some kind..."

Please source that statement. Who published the statement, who conducted the polls, etc. It sounds made up! If you can't source it, then consider retracting it. If you can source it, then we can debate the accuracy of the source and not the veracity of your statement.

In some the the areas I've lived in within the US, I'd say that up to 80% of the population were armed.

[connda]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

Yes, it's that simple. But in America, it's anything but. The pro-gun folks are already out firing with both barrels (in a manner of speaking), saying that this could only happen in a "gun-free zone." Gun ownership is so entrenched in the American psyche that I can't see anything changing in our lifetimes. The pro-gun lobby and the people who support them are so powerful and well-funded that even politicians (read people who make laws) won't mess with them. So get used to it, America, this will keep happening over and over again.

How come none of you liberal gun-control types are calling for the disarmament of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Ukraine, Libya, etc, etc, etc where gun related horror stories and mass murder are a daily occurrence? Where do more gun related deaths occur: The Southwest US or Mexico? There is carnage happening in Mexico, but nobody chimes it for the disarmament of all Mexican citizens.

Come on. Every time there is a gun crime in Thailand, start pounding the OPs with calls for the disarmament of the Thai people.

Ya'll are just a bit hypocritical don't you think? I do.

hmmmm... yeah, but to be honest I don't care about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Ukraine, Libya, etc, etc, etc ...

You have to start somewhere ... let them all shoot each other ... Everyone knows all those governments are cheats, thiefs, crooks otherwise they would stop Boko Haram , Taliban and other terrorists ...

Please don't try to us those places as your argument for defence ...

I was more thinking about US and home ... we need to get society thinking better and that has got to be a start ??

Utter elitist, racist, hypocrisy. And, Thailand is 'home'.

Edited June 19, 2015 by connda

[MaxYakov]

In 2012 only 259 "justifiable homicides" involving a private citizen were reported in the USA, compared to 8,342 criminal homicides committed with a gun.

Put another way, for every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. And that does not take into account "tens of thousands" of gun-related suicides and unintentional shootings.

The influential National Rifle Association contends that "guns are necessary for self-defence".

"But this gun industry propaganda has no basis in fact, in a nation of more than 300 million firearms, it is striking how rarely guns are used in self-defense."

...and how many of those justifiable homicides are carried out by law enforcement officers in the line of duty? Considering myself a law abiding citizen, I'd be really nervous about using a gun in any but the most extreme circumstances. I mean, good people do not murder other people. Imagine my house get invaded, but I hesitate for just one second in using my weapon. The intruder sees me armed and I'm dead. Had I not been armed I do not pose a threat to the intruder. I could still be killed (for the thrill), but it is much less likely. I think I'd pass on owning a gun. But maybe that's just my Australian upbringing.

"I mean, good people do not murder other people."

Except when they actually do murder other people, of course.

That's fine if you want to risk your own life, I suppose, but what if you had a family or livelihood to protect?

How the D.C. family brutally killed in their home spend their final days - WaPo - 30 May 2015

Of course, home invasion murders don't happen in Australia, do they?

Murderer sentenced to 20 years after violent home invasion in Hamlyn Terrace - abc.net.au - 8 Apr 2015

Thornlie man, 19, charged with attempted murder over violent Salter Point home invasion - PerthNow - 19 Feb 2015

Murder charges over Sydney home invasion - The Australian - 22 Oct 2014

(This is only the very short list)

Apparently, not all Australians have benefited from your style of "Australian upbringing", have they?

Edited June 19, 2015 by MaxYakov

[nemrut]

"Racism in US is not 'just one small reason' but the root of the problem in the US, as its history is grounded in violence and subjugation of non-white persons. Easy to conveniently forget that and deny any responsibility while being the primary beneficiary of such actions generations later."

What an arrogant comment from a know it all liberal. Maybe you have benefited immensely from owning slaves but I sure haven't and

how would it be easy to forget that there was a time LONG ago when slaves were owned in the US? The media reminds everyone constantly as

do the know all's like yourself.

Blacks have been given every opportunity to succeed over the past 40 years at least.

If they choose not to do the hard work necessary to build a career then that's on them.

So stop making excuses for people regardless of color when they refuse to do what's necessary to build a better life for themselves and their families.

When it comes to racists, whites don't have that market cornered. There's many blacks who are just as racist as any other group.

As far as what's the point about black on black crime it should be obvious, why isn't it?

As far as weapons purchases I just wish voting in a US election had the same background and credential checks as trying to purchase a weapon. If

​that occurred I doubt seriously if Democrats could ever win a fair election.

Let's address your points:

" Maybe you have benefited immensely from owning slaves but I sure haven't and

how would it be easy to forget that there was a time LONG ago when slaves were owned in the US? "

Early US industry was built on the backs of slaves (eg, farming, cotton, railroad, etc). Without slavery, US economy would not have thrived nor attracted a steady flow of immigrants(ie cheap labor) which further fueled growth.

The privileges, opportunities and high standard of living you enjoy as a white American would not have been possible without slavery driving the engine of early US economic growth.

"Blacks have been given every opportunity to succeed over the past 40 years at least.

If they choose not to do the hard work necessary to build a career then that's on them.

So stop making excuses for people regardless of color when they refuse to do what's necessary to build a better life for themselves and their families."

Have blacks been given 'every opportunity' to succeed?

Let's not forget the breaking up of families during slavery, raping of mothers by slave owners, abuse/forced labor of children and black men forced to fight each other for sport.

What about the daily lynchings of blacks which were deemed socially acceptable by white Americans up to the early 1920s until anti-lynching laws were finally passed.

And what about segregation where blacks couldnt go to the same schools, eat in the same restaurants, drink from the same water fountain as whites up until 40yrs ago?

So here we are today, 40yrs after desegregation, and data clearly shows blacks suffer more hate crimes than any other minority, are detained more often by police and suffer more abuse if not death by law enforcement officers.

In your mind, is that sufficient time to heal such deep seated wounds?

"As far as what's the point about black on black crime it should be obvious, why isn't it?

What in your mind is obvious about black on black crime? What about white on white crime which accounts for most of the crime in the US?

"As far as weapons purchases I just wish voting in a US election had the same background and credential checks as trying to purchase a weapon. "

What would that achieve? US citizens already have to register to vote with verifiable information.

I seriously hope you do some research on these areas mentioned to educate yourself vs spreading ill-informed opinions masquerading as facts.

[Publicus]

Charleston is grieving ..... very sad that people can not even be safe in church.

If the gun laws were similar to that of Australia ... there would not be so many shootings in the US.

Guns kill people and the people who have easy access to guns kill people ... it's not rocket science ...

Yep but 95% of America wants gun control of some kind but your gun lobby wasn't as strong as ours. Yea also your pm got <deleted> for passing said law. Vice did an interview with him. He actually put the country before himself. Shocking. Not going to happen in USA.

"Yep but 95% of America wants gun control of some kind..."

Please source that statement. Who published the statement, who conducted the polls, etc. It sounds made up! If you can't source it, then consider retracting it. If you can source it, then we can debate the accuracy of the source and not the veracity of your statement.

In some the the areas I've lived in within the US, I'd say that up to 80% of the population were armed.

Ask and ye shall receive, courtesy of the Washington Post the last time gun legislation was being considered in Congress, in 2013. As the WaPo article notes, all the mainstream and consistently reliable polling had the same findings, i.e., almost all Americans supported improved background checks of gun purchasers and the vast majority support comprehensive improvements to gun laws.

90 percent of Americans want expanded background checks on guns. Why isn’t this a political slam dunk? Nine in 10 Americans support expanding background checks on gun purchases in a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, an extraordinary level of agreement on a political issue and a finding that's been duplicated in nearly every major public poll.

Surveys show broad support spans gun owners and non-gun owners alike, Democrats and Republicans, and even among members of the National Rifle Association, whose leadership is leading efforts to spike the measure from pending legislation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/04/03/90-percent-of-americans-want-expanded-background-checks-on-guns-why-isnt-this-a-political-slam-dunk

The only people opposed are the extreme of the extreme right wing gun nuts and the hard core of the hard core NRA leadership and membership.

Of the 100 million Americans who own firearms, only 4 million are members of the NRA so no right winger here should presume to speak for me as a gun owner in the United States and as a registered Democrat who doesn't go near the NRA and its members who voluntarily post to websites domestically and abroad.

[Jingthing]

More about calling this terrorism:

Police are investigating the shooting of nine African Americans at Emanuel AME Church in Charleston as a hate crime committed by a white man. Unfortunately, it’s not a unique event in American history. Black churches have long been a target of white supremacists who burned and bombed them in an effort to terrorize the black communities that those churches anchored. One of the most egregious terrorist acts in U.S. history was committed against a black church in Birmingham, Ala., in 1963. Four girls were killed when members of the KKK bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church, a tragedy that ignited the Civil Rights Movement.

But listen to major media outlets and you won’t hear the word “terrorism” used in coverage of Tuesday’s shooting. You won’t hear the white male shooter, identified as 21-year-old Dylann Roof, described as “a possible terrorist.” And if coverage of recent shootings by white suspects is any indication, he never will be. Instead, the go-to explanation for his actions will be mental illness. He will be humanized and called sick, a victim of mistreatment or inadequate mental health resources. Activist Deray McKesson noted this morning that, while discussing Roof’s motivations, an MSNBC anchor said “we don’t know his mental condition.” That is the power of whiteness in America.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/18/call-the-charleston-church-shooting-what-it-is-terrorism/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b&hpid=z3

[Chicog]

The only people opposed are the extreme of the extreme right wing gun nuts and the hard core of the hard core NRA leadership and membership.

And a house full of politicians who are afraid of losing, or being targeted for removal, by NRA money.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Chicog

[Publicus]

The only people opposed are the extreme of the extreme right wing gun nuts and the hard core of the hard core NRA leadership and membership.

And a house full of politicians who are afraid of losing, or being targeted for removal, by NRA money.

Point well taken yet the Senate did vote 54 in favor of the proposed legislation in 2013 which was the last time Congress considered gun laws. That's a majority of four, however, the bill needed 60 votes to pass, so that was that.

In the House the point has never been more accurate. So many tea party and other extreme lunar Republicans are recently elected to the House Republican majority that the NRA doesn't have to do much armtwisting there to prevail.

[Publicus]

"Racism in US is not 'just one small reason' but the root of the problem in the US, as its history is grounded in violence and subjugation of non-white persons. Easy to conveniently forget that and deny any responsibility while being the primary beneficiary of such actions generations later."

What an arrogant comment from a know it all liberal. Maybe you have benefited immensely from owning slaves but I sure haven't and

how would it be easy to forget that there was a time LONG ago when slaves were owned in the US? The media reminds everyone constantly as

do the know all's like yourself.

Blacks have been given every opportunity to succeed over the past 40 years at least.

If they choose not to do the hard work necessary to build a career then that's on them.

So stop making excuses for people regardless of color when they refuse to do what's necessary to build a better life for themselves and their families.

When it comes to racists, whites don't have that market cornered. There's many blacks who are just as racist as any other group.

As far as what's the point about black on black crime it should be obvious, why isn't it?

As far as weapons purchases I just wish voting in a US election had the same background and credential checks as trying to purchase a weapon. If

​that occurred I doubt seriously if Democrats could ever win a fair election.

What an arrogant comment from a know it all liberal. Maybe you have benefited immensely from owning slaves but I sure haven't and how would it be easy to forget that there was a time LONG ago when slaves were owned in the US? Blacks have been given every opportunity to succeed over the past 40 years at least

The right wing gets no respect in these statements because the right ignores history and history is vital to understanding any issue that is at the central core of life in the country. As long as the right ignores history, the right will continue to be ignored in its efforts to fragment and isolate the whole of history into the parts only the right considers convenient to itself.

The United States continues to benefit from slavery which by the time it was abolished after the Civil War had become a $1 Trillion benefit to the country and the impact of the institution of slavery continues as does its vary alive legacy from the KKK to Jim Crow to segregation and now to assassination and to mass murder.

The right cannot possibly deny factual history until all the the Confederate flags flying over all the state houses are taken down from the capitol buildings of the states of the Old Confederacy. Those flags went back up mid-20th century as the direct response against the Civil Rights movement more than 40 years ago.

Dylann Storm Root grew up under that flag in South Carolina, and if taking down that flag in SC could contribute to stopping what he alone became, then good.