Clinton says US must face 'hard truths' about guns, race

[notmyself]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

[gemguy]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

I have read similar statistical data over the years while sooner or later you come to realize that there are a percent of the people that are or will always be involved or caught up in criminal activities.

In the USA the data is fairly accurate while commonly unbiased and simply providing the figures needed to help understand how such social problems can be addressed and resolved.

The question I always ask is this :

If the white folk ( is that racist? ) were living in reverse roles as compared to the Blacks and the Hispanics and numerous other underprivileged ethnic groups living in America....would the crime statistics be the same or similar???

A good example being the social conditions suffered by some of the European ethnic groups struggling to survive at the turn of the century before the first world war in large developing cities such as New York and Chicago.

The Russians and Ukrainians and the Irish also...don't forget the Irish...and do not forget the Italians and their Mafia and the Jewish Mafia.....who developed a reputation as criminals while perpetrating the establishment of criminal organizations ( Gangs?) while the majority of the citizens in those ethnic groups had nothing to do with crime and criminal activities but still they grew up and lived and survived in harsh social and economic conditions...and had to live with the criticisms of the nation because they were guilty by association...so to speak.

Now it is the Blacks and Hispanics, more so than the whites, who suffer the harsh social and economic conditions.

Cheers

Edited June 20, 2015 by gemguy

[notmyself]

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

Some 15% of Americans are atheist yet only 0.07% of the prison population are atheist. Why is that?

[chuckd]

American's believe they have the god given right to shoot each other. 35,000 gun deaths a year, because of an interpretation of the right to bear arms in the Constitution written 200 years ago.

Open carry? Are you kidding me? The NRA is responsible for these deaths. I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them. The United States doesn't have the balls to do it. It's a public health issue that trumps any right to bear arms crapola.

I put gun nuts in with climate change deniers and the idiots who want to ban abortions...oh yeah that's the Republican party, a sad group that calls itself human beings.

"I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them."

You are a liar. But that wouldn't be unusual for a liberal, would it?

Source: Australia - Guns Facts, Figures and the Law (www.gunpolicy.org)

The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Australia is 3,050,000

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in Australia is 15.0 firearms per 100 people

There are reportedly 172,422 handguns in civilian possession in Australia

In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Australia ranked at No. 25

The number of registered guns in Australia is reported to be

2012: 2,750,000

2010: 2,675,785

2001: 2,165,170

Source: Library of Congress - Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Australia

"The sale, possession, and use of firearms are regulated by the Australian states and territories, with cross-border trade matters addressed at the federal level. In 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, the federal government and the states and territories agreed to a uniform approach to firearms regulation, including a ban on certain semiautomatic and self-loading rifles and shotguns, standard licensing and permit criteria, storage requirements and inspections, and greater restrictions on the sale of firearms and ammunition. Firearms license applicants would be required to take a safety course and show a “genuine reason” for owning a firearm, which could not include self-defense. The reasons for refusing a license would include “reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearm.” A waiting period of twenty-eight days would apply to the issuing of both firearms licenses and permits to acquire each weapon."

In America 88.8% of the population own guns which is around 283,000,000 Guns. As a result of that culture, there are over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA. In Australia, UK and NZ ordinary citizens cannot carry hand guns without a good reason such as a gun club, need a permit to carry which is strictly controlled and certainly we cannot own assault rifles. In Australia there were 25 Homicides in 2013 while at the same time there were 11,000 in the USA. Even if Australia had the same population as the USA, that would equate to Australia only having 345 Homicides in one year against 11,000 in the USA! In the UK there are 4,277 registered guns and against that there are only 26 homicides in one year. The reason for the difference is obviously the number of guns per person. In the USA gun ownership is 88.8%, Australia only 15% and the UK only 6.6%. With over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA compared with only 26 in the UK it is about time the USA puts an end to the culture that allows its citizens the right to arm themselves to the teeth with guns, knives, assault rifles and machine guns for "protection".

How about a link to that obviously incorrect 88.8% number?

[MaeJoMTB]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

That isn't what we said at all, it appears to be a black problem, not a coloured problem.

And as for being a racist, don't see that pointing out a clear correlation is racist.

Especially as my own wife and children aren't white.

[MaeJoMTB]

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

Some 15% of Americans are atheist yet only 0.07% of the prison population are atheist. Why is that?

More likely to get parole if you've been saved?

Goody bags from Christian organizations?

(just guessing)

Edited June 20, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[KarenBravo]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

I haven't stated any opinion.

Just observed your comment (which is thrown around far too frequently) and wondered if there were any statistics.

There were, which I posted.

How about you post some study that refutes them instead of trying to vilify me and elevate yourself to sainthood?

[chuckd]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

[chuckd]

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

Some 15% of Americans are atheist yet only 0.07% of the prison population are atheist. Why is that?

Jail cells and foxholes have been known to drive many atheists into religion.

[KarenBravo]

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

Some 15% of Americans are atheist yet only 0.07% of the prison population are atheist. Why is that?

Unwittingly, you have just proven the point that certain groups of people when it comes to belief, or crime, don't follow the percentages within the general population.

You're not very good at this, are you?

[Seastallion]

So she is the first one to come out and attempt to use this tragedy to her political advantage. Who will be next ?

Fox news (official mouthpiece for the republican party) was first by claiming the murders were not race related.

Also....

According to Huckabee, the solution to the problem is more guns.

"...the best way to stop a bad person with a gun is to have a good person with an equal or superior weapon...."

Then the bad people get superior weapons...so the good people get even more superior weapons.....and so on... soon, every man, woman and child will have "superior" weapons and only Robocop will be able to attend a domestic incident or burglary, routine patrols in tanks. .

Arm the teachers. Arm the priests. Arm the Walmart checkout girls. Arm the school crossing warden. Arm the bus drivers. Arm...everybody.

Can't he see it's a spiral down into the wild frontier?

[Seastallion]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Prison stats are not a real indicator of crime with regard to ethnicity because of systemic racism and socio-economic reasons, more dark people get nabbed and convicted.

My guess is if the studies that got those results looked at socio-economic backgrounds without mentioning race, you could replace "(insert dark ethnic group here)" with "person of low socio-economic background" and get similar results.

[chuckd]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Prison stats are not a real indicator of crime with regard to ethnicity because of systemic racism and socio-economic reasons, more dark people get nabbed and convicted.

My guess is if the studies that got those results looked at socio-economic backgrounds without mentioning race, you could replace "(insert dark ethnic group here)" with "person of low socio-economic background" and get similar results.

Rather than "guessing", why don't you check out the footnotes to satisfy your curiousity.

Let us know what conclusions you draw.

[Jingthing]

At least we can laugh about it, but I think most Americans know, nothing is going to change:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxI&feature=youtu.be

[gemguy]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Even if the figures are cut in half....the facts remain the same and disturbing enough.

Meantime...there are plenty of white boys involved in criminal activities and criminal enterprises while often enough they are not the street level crimes rather corporate crimes and financial scams and flim flam operations and stock market fraud and confidence men galore wearing suits and ties and looking perfectly respectable....lol....while they seldom get caught and or go to prison.

Cheers

[Seastallion]

At least we can laugh about it, but I think most Americans know, nothing is going to change:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxI&feature=youtu.be

It is very funny how he encapsulates all the arguments...and he really does make good points.

[Publicus]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Try this for a change on C-SPAN which presents both sides and this is the side opposite from the contemptuous right wing one that denies all history of race in the USA...

MAY 6, 2015 Inner-City Poverty

Ross Eisenbrey and Michael Tanner talked about the role of government in combating inner-city poverty in communities such as Baltimore and Detroit. Topics included the minimum wage, tax policy, and jobs. The discussion began with a history of racial segregation in U.S. cities and “white flight” to the suburbs.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?325682-3/washington-journal-ross-eisenbrey-michael-tanner-innercity-poverty

[Seastallion]

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Prison stats are not a real indicator of crime with regard to ethnicity because of systemic racism and socio-economic reasons, more dark people get nabbed and convicted.

My guess is if the studies that got those results looked at socio-economic backgrounds without mentioning race, you could replace "(insert dark ethnic group here)" with "person of low socio-economic background" and get similar results.

Rather than "guessing", why don't you check out the footnotes to satisfy your curiousity.

Let us know what conclusions you draw.

No thanks...I suspect it would be a waste of time.Here is an excerpt from your source's "Mission Statement";

"Furthermore Metapedia gives us the opportunity to present a more balanced and fair image of the pro-European struggle for the general public as well as for academics, who until now have been dependent on strongly biased and hostile “researchers” like Searchlight, Anti-Defamation League, Southern Poverty Law Center, Simon Wiesenthal Centre, and such."

If I was to quote your source on an Israeli debate, would you accept their position?

I think not. It seems like a bit of a KKK in white collars type of website. Jews and blacks equally demonised. What brings you to reading and trusting it's content, may I ask?

[Publicus]

Excellent job of turning the keyboard warriors into prisoners of their own wars.

[Merzik]

i don't understand why a country with a lot of believers of the bible: you shall not kill

needs that many guns.

"Thou shall not murder" is a more accurate translation. The Bible is full of God-endorsed wars and acceptable killings. Whether one agrees with them or not.

The 2nd Amendment was written to protect the citizens from any government in the future that might become tyrannical. The wording of 2nd Amendment itself is a bit ambiguous and brief; yet the Founding Fathers were all very clear in all of their writings that the citizens be armed for this reason.

[Merzik]

I'm British and didn't even see my first hand-gun until I was 18 years old and saw a policeman in a European country carrying one.

For many years, I couldn't understand why the US didn't implement strict gun control. It just seemed so obvious at the time.

Unfortunately, both sides of the argument are right. If you ban guns, only the criminals will have them.

The fact is, is that gun control in the US is about a hundred years too late to be effective. There are just too many guns circulating now in the US. It wouldn't work, even if they tried.

There were very few gun restriction laws in the Uk until the 1960's; and yet there was very little violent crime. As the Uk has become more "multicultural" ; violent crime has become much more common with knives being the weapon of choice. The 2nd Amendment in America was not written for crime control or hunting however; it was written to protect the citizens from their own government. A hypothethical unpopular, discredited and tyrannical government would have its hands full with millions of armed citizens.

[Seastallion]

I'm British and didn't even see my first hand-gun until I was 18 years old and saw a policeman in a European country carrying one.

For many years, I couldn't understand why the US didn't implement strict gun control. It just seemed so obvious at the time.

Unfortunately, both sides of the argument are right. If you ban guns, only the criminals will have them.

The fact is, is that gun control in the US is about a hundred years too late to be effective. There are just too many guns circulating now in the US. It wouldn't work, even if they tried.

There were very few gun restriction laws in the Uk until the 1960's; and yet there was very little violent crime. As the Uk has become more "multicultural" ; violent crime has become much more common with knives being the weapon of choice. The 2nd Amendment in America was not written for crime control or hunting however; it was written to protect the citizens from their own government. A hypothethical unpopular, discredited and tyrannical government would have its hands full with millions of armed citizens.

Correct. But some members here will have us believe in a mythical 1709 Oxford dictionary that supports the way the 2nd Amendment is interpreted today.

[Merzik]

American's believe they have the god given right to shoot each other. 35,000 gun deaths a year, because of an interpretation of the right to bear arms in the Constitution written 200 years ago.

Open carry? Are you kidding me? The NRA is responsible for these deaths. I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them. The United States doesn't have the balls to do it. It's a public health issue that trumps any right to bear arms crapola.

I put gun nuts in with climate change deniers and the idiots who want to ban abortions...oh yeah that's the Republican party, a sad group that calls itself human beings.

"I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them."

You are a liar. But that wouldn't be unusual for a liberal, would it?

Source: Australia - Guns Facts, Figures and the Law (www.gunpolicy.org)

The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Australia is 3,050,000

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in Australia is 15.0 firearms per 100 people

There are reportedly 172,422handguns in civilian possession in Australia

In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Australia ranked at No. 25

The number of registered guns in Australia is reported to be

2012: 2,750,000

2010: 2,675,785

2001: 2,165,170

Source: Library of Congress - Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Australia

"The sale, possession, and use of firearms are regulated by the Australian states and territories, with cross-border trade matters addressed at the federal level. In 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, the federal government and the states and territories agreed to a uniform approach to firearms regulation, including a ban on certain semiautomatic and self-loading rifles and shotguns, standard licensing and permit criteria, storage requirements and inspections, and greater restrictions on the sale of firearms and ammunition. Firearms license applicants would be required to take a safety course and show a genuine reason for owning a firearm, which could not include self-defense. The reasons for refusing a license would include reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearm. A waiting period of twenty-eight days would apply to the issuing of both firearms licenses and permits to acquire each weapon."

In America 88.8% of the population own guns which is around 283,000,000 Guns. As a result of that culture, there are over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA. In Australia, UK and NZ ordinary citizens cannot carry hand guns without a good reason such as a gun club, need a permit to carry which is strictly controlled and certainly we cannot own assault rifles. In Australia there were 25 Homicides in 2013 while at the same time there were 11,000 in the USA. Even if Australia had the same population as the USA, that would equate to Australia only having 345 Homicides in one year against 11,000 in the USA! In the UK there are 4,277 registered guns and against that there are only 26 homicides in one year. The reason for the difference is obviously the number of guns per person. In the USA gun ownership is 88.8%, Australia only 15% and the UK only 6.6%. With over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA compared with only 26 in the UK it is about time the USA puts an end to the culture that allows its citizens the right to arm themselves to the teeth with guns, knives, assault rifles and machine guns for "protection".

The number of violent crimes in the US has dropped to almost half of what it was about 25 years ago. This despite the fact that gun ownership has risen since this time. ( or rather because of it) Countries like Mexico and Brazil have very restrictive gun laws; and a lot of violent crime. I spent a lot of time in Brazil myself and was a crime victim on several occasions; which is why I stopped going there. Switzerland on the other hand is a country which has a long tradition of gun ownership; yet has very little violent crime. ( this is starting to change with African and ME immigration) Most parts of the United States are still very safe; it is primarily the gang-infested black and immigrant ghettoes that are violent. Some reform of drug laws, control of the border and reform of the Welfare State (which drove black fathers out of the homes) could bring these high-crime rates down. Americans are willing to accept the fact that guns will sometimes be used in violent crimes or in accidents. It is a price we are willing to pay just as we do with automobiles and other objects that result in tragedies and deathes of innocents.

As someone mentioned; this killer was yet another patient of pharmaceutical mind-altering drugs. Virtually all of the mass-killings have been linked to these drugs. The first was the 1967 Texas shooter at the University of Texas. As the number of these pharmacutical prescriptions has skyrocked; so have the number of sensational mass-killings. Big Pharma and all the drug-pushing doctors getting rich from this have far more blood on their hands than any other industry or lobby.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Merzik

[F430murci]

Ah, mr. 4f surfaces, knew you were sticking your 2 bits in sooner or later. The lawyer who has more money than most of us ever made in our lives. You know nothing. I've been trying to figure out something in my head, when somebody that knows nothing, never worked a real job in his life, never put his ass on the line does he masturbate to his own picture? Yes, I'm a bit insane, I get paid for PTSD thank you very much. Ahem, exactly what have you done for "your country". My not friend, come on up to Udon and say what you posted to my face, it will be fun, for me, little rich boy.

people like you proof to me that the USA needs gun control

I know. The scary part is that he has guns and I believe he said he once was a cop. No wonder we have problems. Government entities forced to hire anyone by affirmative action plans.

[F430murci]

The high murder rates in many countries appears to be correlated to the number of black people in the population.

Out and out racism.

Is it?

Extract from http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

The report "The Color of Crime"

The report The Color of Crime (2005, second expanded edition) by the New Century Foundation states that while the official crime statistics show large racial differences in the United States, there are several problems which tend to cause underestimation of the racial differences. One example being "Whites" sometimes including Hispanics. Another is not adjusting for that the different racial groups differ in population size. The report reviews the more accurate statistics that is available and describes many large differences in crime rates between races. The report also examines the research on possible bias against racial minorities in the justice system and the police and concludes that bias not a significant explanation for the different racial crime rates.^%5B3%5D

It major findings were stated as:^%5B3%5D

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the White rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is Black and Hispanic.
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving Blacks and Whites, Blacks commit 85 percent and Whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are Black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When Whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are Black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a White than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than Whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

You have got to be kidding me. People with this kind of bigoted view generally come from the southern states of the US. I wonder where you are from.

I had bunch of class mates come down from the North to attend law school in a Southern state. After a bout a year, every single one of them INCLUDING THE BLACK STUDENTS, said they always the South was a bunch of red neck racists until they a little time in the South. They ALL said, no I get it. All of them. Hate to break it to you, it ain't the hard working good people that have a problem. It is the idiot losers that drop out of high school join gangs who will rob you and kill you over $ 20 that has the problem and brings this image upon themselves . . . and there are a whole lot of them. You cannot go anywhere in certain cities without being harassed by pan handlers or guys with gas cans whose car ran out of gas. Whateva.

[boomerangutang]

It's seems to run in the kids family. From what I understand the father gave the kid the gun for his birthday. The kid was also on drugs. Also I guess the family thinks it's funny given the kid a middle name Storm with a last name of Roof.

What type of drug(s)? Interesting, when a perp is drunk, it's either not mentioned or described as '....had been drinking.' Yet any other recreational drug other than alcohol, and it's 'on drugs' and 'a drug-related crime.' If a criminal is drunk, it's never described as a drug-related crime, even though alcohol is a drug, and is a factor in crimes - more than all other rec. drugs combined.

Actually, I know why alcohol is treated with kid gloves: it's a trillion dollar industry, and they sell more booze if they continue to successfully demonize all other rec. drugs.

[Ulysses G.]

The high murder rates in many countries appears to be correlated to the number of black people in the population.

Out and out racism.

Is it?

Extract from http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

The report "The Color of Crime"

The report The Color of Crime (2005, second expanded edition) by the New Century Foundation states that while the official crime statistics show large racial differences in the United States, there are several problems which tend to cause underestimation of the racial differences. One example being "Whites" sometimes including Hispanics. Another is not adjusting for that the different racial groups differ in population size. The report reviews the more accurate statistics that is available and describes many large differences in crime rates between races. The report also examines the research on possible bias against racial minorities in the justice system and the police and concludes that bias not a significant explanation for the different racial crime rates.^%5B3%5D

It major findings were stated as:^%5B3%5D

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the White rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is Black and Hispanic.
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving Blacks and Whites, Blacks commit 85 percent and Whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are Black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When Whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are Black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a White than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than Whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

You have got to be kidding me. People with this kind of bigoted view generally come from the southern states of the US. I wonder where you are from.

It looks like a list of facts. If the facts are not correct, please provide credible evidence, instead of the usual insults.

[Merzik]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

I am French ( and American) and it is true that blacks and Arabs committ a highly disproportional rate of violent crime in France. Everyone in France knows this. This is true all over Europe. Scandinavian countries in particular have seen their violent crime rates skyrocket with the influx of African and ME immigrants. Even Switzerland has seen this immigrant crime wave. I often watch the French language Swiss news and can't help but notice all the black and Arabs being arrested for crimes there. I checked Wiki and found this;

"The crime rate among resident foreigners ("immigrant criminality") is significantly higher (by a factor 3.7 counting convictions under criminal law in 2003).[7] In 1997, there were for the first time more foreigners than Swiss among the convicts under criminal law (out of a fraction of 20.6% of the total population at the time). In 1999, the Federal Department of Justice and Police ordered a study regarding delinquency and nationality (Arbeitsgruppe "Ausländerkriminalität"), which in its final report (2001) found that a conviction rate under criminal law about 12 times higher among asylum seekers (4%), while the conviction rate among other resident foreigners was about twice as high (0.6%) compared to Swiss citizens (0.3%).[8]

In 2010 for the first time was a statistic published which listed delinquency by nationality (based on 2009 data). To avoid distortions due to demographic structure, only the male population aged between 18 and 34 was considered for each group. From this study it became clear that crime rate is highly correlated on the country of origin of the various migrant groups. Thus, immigrants from Germany, France and Austria had a significantly lower crime rate than Swiss citizens (60% to 80%), while immigrants from Angola, Nigeria and Algeria had a crime rate of above 600% of that of Swiss population. In between these extremes were immigrants from Former Yugoslavia, with crime rates of between 210% and 300% of the Swiss value.[9]

The full report listed 24 nationalities plus the crime rate of Swiss citizens (fixed at 100%), and the average value of all foreign citizens combined, at 160%. Commentators expressed surprise[10] at the clear geographical structure of the list, giving, in decreasing order, Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans, Southern Europe and Western and Central Europe. The Federal Statistics Office published the study with the caveat that the sizes of the groups under comparison vary considerably. For example, the net impact of a crime rate increased by 530% among 500 Angolans will still be five times smaller than a crime rate increased by 30% among 46'000 Portuguese...."

[Ulysses G.]

It's seems to run in the kids family. From what I understand the father gave the kid the gun for his birthday. The kid was also on drugs. Also I guess the family thinks it's funny given the kid a middle name Storm with a last name of Roof.

What type of drug(s)?

He was caught with suboxone. It is for opiate addicts who want to quit - usually heroin or oxycodone.

[Scott]

It's seems to run in the kids family. From what I understand the father gave the kid the gun for his birthday. The kid was also on drugs. Also I guess the family thinks it's funny given the kid a middle name Storm with a last name of Roof.

What type of drug(s)?

He was caught with suboxone. It is for opiate addicts who want to quit - usually heroin or oxycodone.

According to the report, he did not have a prescription for the drug.