Confederate flag sets off debate in 2016 Republican class

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post meant to take the discussion off topic has been removed along with replies to it.

[Jingthing]

Some historical background relating to the way Americans have seen the confederate flag:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/01/why-do-people-believe-myths-about-the-confederacy-because-our-textbooks-and-monuments-are-wrong/?hpid=z2

History is the polemics of the victor, William F. Buckley allegedly said. Not so in the United States, at least not regarding the Civil War. As soon as Confederates laid down their arms, some picked up their pens and began to distort what they had done, and why. Their resulting mythology went national a generation later and persists — which is why a presidential candidate can suggest that slavery was somehow pro-family, and the public believes that the war was mainly fought over states’ rights.

The Confederates won with the pen (and the noose) what they could not win on the battlefield: the cause of white supremacy and the dominant understanding of what the war was all about. We are still digging ourselves out from under the misinformation that they spread, which has manifested in both our history books and our public monuments.

...

With our monuments lying about secession, our textbooks obfuscating what the Confederacy was about, and our army honoring its generals, no wonder so many Americans supported the Confederacy until last week.

[sgtsabai]

Ah hah, but it was about states rights, the right to enslave people, make them cattle, and treat them like they were not human for the profit of others.

[Publicus]

It really doesn't matter what this flag originally stood for, the perception of what it stands for today is what matters.

Seems like it now stands for something offensive to a large chunk of society, so, it shouldn't be endorsed by the US government any more and be taken down.

Because then the bad guys win if we give in to their evil. And that includes those that revise history for their political purposes.

Evil?

Bad guys??

The South seceded to preserve slavery then lost the Civil War.

The Confederate Battle Flag went up over the same state capitals in the mid-20th century to explicitly oppose the Black Civil Rights Movement. Now Americans want the flag down and shipped out to museums.

There's nothing to revise and that's all she wrote.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[CMNightRider]

If the Confederate flag comes down, I wonder if the Pyramids in Egypt will be next?

[Neurath]

If the Confederate flag comes down, I wonder if the Pyramids in Egypt will be next?

I wonder if people will get gay married in Egyptian Pyramids.

[Publicus]

Ancient Romans enslaved anybody regardless of race, color, ethnicity, tribe, clan, place of origin and the like, an early on in history equal treatment slaver empire.

In the USA almost all slaves and enslaved people were black.

While the ancient Romans were into power and wealth, the Old Confederacy and its flags were into wealth and white supremacy. After racism began to go out of fashion however all the Old Confederates began to call it "Heritage."

Southern heritage and its twisted pride.

[beechguy]

It really doesn't matter what this flag originally stood for, the perception of what it stands for today is what matters.

Seems like it now stands for something offensive to a large chunk of society, so, it shouldn't be endorsed by the US government any more and be taken down.

Because then the bad guys win if we give in to their evil. And that includes those that revise history for their political purposes.

Evil?

Bad guys??

The South seceded to preserve slavery then lost the Civil War.

The Confederate Battle Flag went up over the same state capitals in the mid-20th century to explicitly oppose the Black Civil Rights Movement. Now Americans want the flag down and shipped out to museums.

There's nothing to revise and that's all she wrote.

http://news.yahoo.com/confederate-flag-racist-majority-americans-says-no-164136181.html

Not surprisingly, some people think differently.

[Publicus]

 

It really doesn't matter what this flag originally stood for, the perception of what it stands for today is what matters.

Seems like it now stands for something offensive to a large chunk of society, so, it shouldn't be endorsed by the US government any more and be taken down.

Because then the bad guys win if we give in to their evil. And that includes those that revise history for their political purposes.

Evil?

Bad guys??

The South seceded to preserve slavery then lost the Civil War.

The Confederate Battle Flag went up over the same state capitals in the mid-20th century to explicitly oppose the Black Civil Rights Movement. Now Americans want the flag down and shipped out to museums.

There's nothing to revise and that's all she wrote.

http://news.yahoo.com/confederate-flag-racist-majority-americans-says-no-164136181.html

Not surprisingly, some people think differently.

From your link....

In 1962 in the early days of the civil rights movement South Carolina legislators voted to fly the flag from the State House and voted to place the Southern Cross at the top of the State House to commemorate the 100 year anniversary of the Civil War, the Monitor's Harry Bruinius reported.

It was an act of defiance, Kenneth Janken, director of the Center for the Study of the American South at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill told the Monitor.

People talk about heritage not hate, but I think the context of it was really that it was not celebrating or honoring the sacrifices of soldiers as much as it was asserting an opposition to the civil rights movement.

The link does not mitigate the point.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

With Nascar's significant redneck patron base, this is much more significant than anyone's survey of the present moment, cause the times they're a changin'

NASCAR tracks ask fans not to display Confederate flags

NASCAR tracks are asking fans to refrain from displaying the Confederate flag at all races and racing facilities, the tracks said in a joint industry statement on Thursday.

"We are committed to providing a welcoming atmosphere free of offensive symbols," the tracks said. "This is an opportunity for NASCAR Nation to demonstrate its sense of mutual respect and acceptance for all who attend our events while collectively sharing the tremendous experience of NASCAR racing."

NASCAR has been under scrutiny as part of the national conversation surrounding the Confederate flag because while it does not use the flag in any official capacity, it has not banned fans from flying it while camping at the racetracks.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2015/07/02/confederate-flag-nascar-tracks-fans/29616829/

USA TODAY

Daytona won't ban Confederate flagz: offers American flags in exchange program

American flags, yes. The United States of America, not the sessionist Confederate States of America with its heritage of protecting slavery by means of having started a war and a century later raising the Confederate Battle Flag over the capitals of the states of the Old Confederacy in a direct opposition to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

It is a moral issue and it is an everyday real life practical issue that needs to be straightened out. The more the far right howls the further out on the margin of society it puts itself.

For anyone interested in 4th of July Heritage...

Edited July 2, 2015 by Publicus

[slapout]

many people display the flag just to upset others who are precieved to have a higher social standing, others to declare where their loyalty stnds, others want the opposition to know who and where the real target is. it can/is seen as a game to the majority in most cases

[beechguy]

To clarify, for the comprehension impaired. http://news.yahoo.com/confederate-flag-racist-majority-americans-says-no-164136181.html.

Conveniently ignored previously, is that 57% do not consider it a racist symbol.

Also, please take note, that this was a CNN/ORC Poll. The last time I looked, those letters do not spell FOX.

Edited July 3, 2015 by beechguy

[Publicus]

To clarify, for the comprehension impaired. http://news.yahoo.com/confederate-flag-racist-majority-americans-says-no-164136181.html.

Conveniently ignored previously, is that 57% do not consider it a racist symbol.

Also, please take note, that this was a CNN/ORC Poll. The last time I looked, those letters do not spell FOX.

Reading the link closely for greater detail and comprehension there are factors that need vital consideration and due respect, specifically....

Among African-Americans, 72 percent see the flag as a symbol of racism, compared to 25 percent of white people, the recent poll found.

The difference is even more stark in the South, where 75 percent of African-Americans see the flag as representative of racism, while only 18 percent of whites agree.

“As the white South was undergoing great upheaval, it became a symbol of white resistance to all these cultural changes,” says Robert Brinkmeyer, director of the Institute for Southern Studies at the University of South Carolina in Columbia, told the Monitor.

Another divide can be seen among whites along level of education; among those with a college degree, 51 percent said they see it as a symbol of pride. Among white Americans without a college degree 73 percent see it as representative of Southern pride

These are among the many other excellent reasons why the f-rag of treason is coming down in the South and in other respects throughout the country, such as Nascar tracks. There are however always Rebs in spirit who have worn the red Battle Flag for too long around their necks and in the hot sun besides.

[NeverSure]

I just ordered a really big confederate flag to fly in front of my house. They are selling like hotcakes. I'm getting ready to invite Publicus over for a beer and I thought he'd like to see a real one.

[Scott]

I just ordered a really big confederate flag to fly in front of my house. They are selling like hotcakes. I'm getting ready to invite Publicus over for a beer and I thought he'd like to see a real one.

Please record the whole thing and upload it to YouTube.....or keep it for the trial!!

[Merzik]

As predicted the George Soros funded ( 33 million and counting) "Black Lives Matter" trendies have moved on to burning American flags.

http://gothamist.com/2015/05/20/flag_burning_protest.php

[Merzik]

Burning Confederate flags is like so passe for trendies now.

Texas:

George TaGAYCiST @DefendWallSt

#BlackLivesMatter protesters and their children setting American flags on fire in #McKinney Texas

7:13 AM - 9 Jun 2015

South Carolina:

[NeverSure]

It isn't illegal to burn an American flag. First Amendment to the US Constitution - freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom to peacefully gather, freedom to petition government for redress of grievances. Etched in stone.

Cheers

[NeverSure]

I don't think it would be illegal for an American to fly a confederate flag on property he owns. A business could say no because that's their private property which they control even if they rent it. An employer including the government could say no during working hours or any time on their property.

I will be shocked it someone proves to me that it's illegal on my private property or even on my car. This issue which I am seeing violated in "other countries" is important - human rights including the right to free speech and expression. That true even if the speech or expression is objectionable. As I've said before, if offensive speech wasn't protected then we wouldn't need the explicit freedom to be objectionable. To protest. To burn American flags. To call the president a communist. The POTUS just used the N word.

Cheers

[Merzik]

It isn't illegal to burn an American flag. First Amendment to the US Constitution - freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom to peacefully gather, freedom to petition government for redress of grievances. Etched in stone.

Cheers

I understand this and agree with the Constitution; in spite of the deeply offensive nature of this act. The point I am making is that the radical left is attacking anything and everything associated with European-American people, history and heritage. The Confederate flag is but one on their to-do list.

[Berkshire]

Even golfer and proud southerner Bubba Watson realizes that the Confederate flag is offensive:

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/bubba-watson-will-paint-over-confederate-flag-general-lee

[jacky54]

proud southerner, is he a racist?

I thought this was the 'real'confederate flag, is this racist as well? Lincoln was against mixed marriage, against equal rights and initially against emancipation and a man who described mixed race as 'mixed race bastards' was he a racist? ah, but he was the victor there's the difference

Edited July 3, 2015 by jacky54

[Merzik]

Even golfer and proud southerner Bubba Watson realizes that the Confederate flag is offensive:

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/bubba-watson-will-paint-over-confederate-flag-general-lee

25 years ago his rebel flag offended very few people. It is only in the last two decades that this process of the demonization of the rebel flag has really been underway. Bubba is just being a trendy doing the politically correct surrender of this part of our collective heritage. It takes absolutely no courage on his part to do so. Maybe he will be getting married to a man or changing his sex soon? This will get him some more media attention and love.

[Merzik]

I thought this was the 'real'confederate flag, is this racist as well? Lincoln was against mixed marriage, against equal rights and initially against emancipation and a man who described mixed race as 'mixed race bastards' was he a racist? ah, but he was the victor there's the difference

Anyone can google " Lincoln's racist quotes" and find overwhelming evidence of this. He also intended to send the freed slaves back to Africa; but his assassination ended this project. While he was opposed to slavery; he clearly did not believe in black equality or blacks and whites living together. As Napoleon said, " history is a collection of lies agreed upon by the winners of wars." 555

[Merzik]

Ancient Romans enslaved anybody regardless of race, color, ethnicity, tribe, clan, place of origin and the like, an early on in history equal treatment slaver empire.

In the USA almost all slaves and enslaved people were black.

While the ancient Romans were into power and wealth, the Old Confederacy and its flags were into wealth and white supremacy. After racism began to go out of fashion however all the Old Confederates began to call it "Heritage."

Southern heritage and its twisted pride.

White slaves were far more common than you think in the Americas.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

Very few people in the North or the South believed in racial equality; including Abe Lincoln himself. There is no reason to demonize the South because they were engaged in something which was practiced throughout history and around the planet. It is scantioned in both the Jewih Bible and the Muslim Koran. Muslims and Jews were also heavily involved in the slave trafficking and Africans themselves sold African slaves to them. Yet it is only Europeans, and especially Southerners , who are demonized as being evil for this. There was an anti-slavery movement in the South before the war too; and even Robert E Lee was opposed to it. Slavery was destined to be abolished and it is truly a tragedy that it ended in this manner. There is absolutely no reason to denigrate the American South or their proud heritage which is far more than the institution of slavery.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Merzik

[F430murci]

This is the most ridiculous stuff ever. They canned the Dukes of Hazard even. Are you kidding me. The Dukes of Hazard had zero to do with race.

To be fair, let can BET channel (can you imagine if there was a White Entertainment Channel), all shows such as the Cosby Show, Jeffersons, Fresh Prince of Bel Air and all movies such as Coming to America (makes fun of people).

Holy cow, all of this stuff will actually just back fire in the end. Forcing this stuff down our throats is starting to make people that were once very race neutral such as myself are starting to get very irritated and are starting to racial division.

I mean seriously, Dukes of Hazard? C'mon.

[Neurath]

Were there any Abolitionists in Jefferson's Davis' government?

[CMNightRider]

proud southerner, is he a racist?

I thought this was the 'real'confederate flag, is this racist as well? Lincoln was against mixed marriage, against equal rights and initially against emancipation and a man who described mixed race as 'mixed race bastards' was he a racist? ah, but he was the victor there's the difference

Great post after reading so many loony far left opinions about the Confederate flag.

[beechguy]

To clarify, for the comprehension impaired. http://news.yahoo.com/confederate-flag-racist-majority-americans-says-no-164136181.html.

Conveniently ignored previously, is that 57% do not consider it a racist symbol.

Also, please take note, that this was a CNN/ORC Poll. The last time I looked, those letters do not spell FOX.

Reading the link closely for greater detail and comprehension there are factors that need vital consideration and due respect, specifically....

Among African-Americans, 72 percent see the flag as a symbol of racism, compared to 25 percent of white people, the recent poll found.

The difference is even more stark in the South, where 75 percent of African-Americans see the flag as representative of racism, while only 18 percent of whites agree.

“As the white South was undergoing great upheaval, it became a symbol of white resistance to all these cultural changes,” says Robert Brinkmeyer, director of the Institute for Southern Studies at the University of South Carolina in Columbia, told the Monitor.

Another divide can be seen among whites along level of education; among those with a college degree, 51 percent said they see it as a symbol of pride. Among white Americans without a college degree 73 percent see it as representative of Southern pride

These are among the many other excellent reasons why the f-rag of treason is coming down in the South and in other respects throughout the country, such as Nascar tracks. There are however always Rebs in spirit who have worn the red Battle Flag for too long around their necks and in the hot sun besides.

But, you don't have any problem with being a descendant of traitors? After all, weren't our forefathers, traitors to the British?