Confederate flag sets off debate in 2016 Republican class

[bamnutsak]

From childhood memories.

Bo and Luke, we gonna miss you !

Bubba Watson removing the Confederate flag from his "General Lee"

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/07/03/bubba-watson-removing-confederate-flag-from-his-generall-lee/

In other news, Mississippi ratifies 13th Amendment in 2013, 148 years late. (Yes, it was sort of ratified in 1995.)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/18/mississippi-fixes-oversight-formally-ratifies-13th-amendment-on-slavery/

[Publicus]

The major US flagmakers have announced they will stop making all of the various kinds of Confederate flags.

Valley Forge Flag in Pennsylvania said in a statement, "We hope that this decision will show our support for those affected by the recent events in Charleston and, in some small way, help to foster racial unity and tolerance in our country."

Annin Flagmakers, in Roseland, New Jersey, stated at its website the company supplied the U.S. flags for Union troops during the Civil War, and an Annin flag draped the coffin of slain U.S. President Abraham Lincoln.

Eder Flag Manufacturing based in Wisconsin stated it would cease production..

Dixie Flag Manufacturing Company owner Pete Van de Putte told Reuters late on Tuesday his firm would stop producing the flags as well, after earlier saying production would continue despite the controversy. He said one customer on Monday asked for their largest Confederate flag so he could burn it.

Online auction site eBay Inc. said it would ban Confederate flags and related items containing the flag's image from its website.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which researches U.S. hate groups, applauded the big retailers' decision to pull the merchandise. "All of the publicity surrounding the sale of Confederate flags became too toxic to handle, and that’s a good thing," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/24/us-usa-shooting-south-carolina-flag-idUSKBN0P327E20150624

Not for Republicans running for prez and for other reactionary rightists it ain't, which places them among their wrongheaded confederate forebears and in the company of other truly unfortunate souls of history.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Publicus

[KarenBravo]

Nice distortion of history. The Civil War was about throwing off the choke of tyranny the South felt the North was inflicting on them. No more or less righteous than the American revolution. But you being a bigot, hardly surprising.

It is impossible to deny slavery had a major role in causing 13 states in the South to secede from the Union of the States and then to fire the first shot, which was against United States Army and Navy forces at Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor in South Carolina, which had been the first state to secede.

Anyone who denies slavery as an initiating factor of secession, the formation of the Confederate States of America and their starting the Civil War has no credibility whatsoever....none, zilch, oogats, zero.

The evidence and proof that slavery motivated and drove secession and thus caused the Civil War is overwhelming. Read the constitution of the Confederate States of America and the constitution of each and every of its states and count the number of times "slavery" is used and in obvious context. The CSA constitution btw did not grant or recognize states rights of its member states nor did it permit secession.

You need a new record player. That one keeps skipping. You keep denying the first hundred years of the US' existence to promote your viewpoint, which is false. I have not said slavery was not an issue, just not the main issue. If slavery was the main issue, there would be no reason for the South to secede, as slavery was not abolished, nor was going to be, as the North did not have the votes in the Senate to make it so. Even President Lincolns' fiat needed to be ratified. And, as stated above, slavery was also present in the North. It was about strong central federal governing vs. weak federal governing. Goes all the way back to the first Continental Congress. And, if the Civil War was about slavery, why did he wait until the end of the war to make the Emancipation Proclamation? Because it was not the driving issue.

You can revise history, but there are these things called books. And libraries. The truth will out. Not you and your ilks' attempts at god-only-knows-why demonizing all that disagree with your agenda.

From what I heard, it was about new states joining the Union. Previously, they could choose between being a slave state, or a free state. The Union decided that all new states had to be free states to join. The south took this as an attack on their economic model which had to have slave labour to make cotton cheap enough to compete with other cotton growing countries like Egypt.

I'm not from the US, so, I could be wrong.

[lostoday]

Will they have to stop singing The Yellow Rose of Texas?

[chuckd]

...and you still don't know who the original "Yellow Rose of Texas" was.

Edit in:

We have a winner.

I overlooked an earlier post. Sdanielmcev got it right in one. Emily West it was.

Edited July 5, 2015 by chuckd

[Publicus]

From the OP: So far, most of the Republican Party's leading 2016 presidential contenders have been silent on flying the Confederate flag.

It's been two weeks since the OP occurred yet almost nothing in this respect has changed. Virtually all Republicans running for prez seem to have flag in mouth disease.

We're still waiting on South Carolina where reports say the legislature has the required two-thirds vote to remove the flag but where the unseen undercurrent against it is running hard and fast. The reactionaries are praying hard for and trying to create a miracle. They didn't get one in the Civil War so we'll see how they make out this time.

That the losers make this a win-lose issue shows their real heritage

[Merzik]

CNN poll: 57% of Americans believe Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern pride

33% a symbol of racism

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/#

[sgtsabai]

Please read the article, especially how black people understandable feel about that symbol of slavery and racism. Count me in the 33%, proudly, and I am a southerner, born and raised. Here's a good read, albeit a bit long, but I really don't think some of you will like reading an intelligent article. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/05/whining-white-southerners/

[beechguy]

CNN poll: 57% of Americans believe Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern pride

33% a symbol of racism

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/#

Already been pointed out to him, and as his usual practice, tried to deflect to the other information. Do keep in consideration, he is in the legal business, and the truth isn't necessarily the primary goal, but to twist use the facts to represent his or his clients interest.

[arunsakda]

I have worked in the South, and together with these right-wing ideologues for years. Every single person who flies the Confederate flag is a dumbass, but they are all not actually bigots. What they do share however is the common experience of having being brought up in America wearing the cloak of white privilege. This is what allows them to be depraved.

Depraved indifference, the absolute inability to emphasize and understand the suffering of other people.

So we have the 1st Amendment and many broad SCOTUS rulings over the years. Display of symbols will never be banned. The Bubba's can continue with their monster trucks and "Stars and Bars" forever. It will just be removed from public facilities. No big deal right?

Edited July 6, 2015 by arunsakda

[sgtsabai]

Never have I heard that before, more right wing trash and completly false. Oh I almost fell into the old right wing trick of change the subject because they can't win, but I didn't. Exactly what does it have to do with the appropriate removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from government areas?

[beechguy]

I have worked in the South, and together with these right-wing ideologues for years. Every single person who flies the Confederate flag is a dumbass, but they are all not actually bigots. What they do share however is the common experience of having being brought up in America wearing the cloak of white privilege. This is what allows them to be depraved.

Depraved indifference, the absolute inability to emphasize and understand the suffering of other people.

So we have the 1st Amendment and many broad SCOTUS rulings over the years. Display of symbols will never be banned. The Bubba's can continue with their monster trucks and "Stars and Bars" forever. It will just be removed from public facilities. No big deal right?

I'm 60 years old, grew up in South, and remember black kids walking in the same door, of the same school I went to. Some never really accomplished much, many others I know, are on the airport commission, upper level of the education department, bank managers. There others I don't know, but see behind the counter at the post office, bank, DMV, etc. Did white privilege rub off on them and pass the others by?

[beechguy]

Never have I heard that before, more right wing trash and completly false. Oh I almost fell into the old right wing trick of change the subject because they can't win, but I didn't. Exactly what does it have to do with the appropriate removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from government areas?

As I mentioned, 60 years old and from the South. I don't ever remember having anything, with a Confederate Flag, or any other Confederate Symbol. I don't necessarily have a problem, if they remove it from public display on government property. But. I may inclined to purchase one or more in the future, to protest Al Sharpton, Snoop Dogg, and racist Rap/Hip-Hop music.

[sgtsabai]

Much like white kids, once black kids had access to education. They didn't when I was growing up in SE Texass. And frankly, many black people wouldn't be where they are today without the antidiscrimination laws. Those that don't believe in white privilege are living in fantasy land. And now that we have had another round of subject changing, what exactly does this have to do with the appropriate removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from government property?

[sgtsabai]

bg, I can't stand hip hop/rap music (it isn't music), has nothing to do with racism, it sucks. Purchase all the racist, slavery representing flags you want, display one on your vehicle. That way people will know you for what you are.

[beechguy]

Much like white kids, once black kids had access to education. They didn't when I was growing up in SE Texass. And frankly, many black people wouldn't be where they are today without the antidiscrimination laws. Those that don't believe in white privilege are living in fantasy land. And now that we have had another round of subject changing, what exactly does this have to do with the appropriate removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from government property?I

It doesn't apply, I was responding to Arunsakda's comment.

I agree, there were a lot of things that changed for the better, but I don't agree with the once size, fits all descriptions, of the South or Southerners, as used by some. The little community I grew up near, was peaceful, very few problems, had a 50% or more black population. One factor that may have made a difference, was not very many people, white or black, had much money.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Scott

[Scott]

I have removed one off-topic post. I don't exactly know that this is a liberal/conservative issue, but even if it is, let's try to stick to the topic rather the political leanings of the posters.

[KarenBravo]

Looks like it's gone from South Carolina's state capitol building.

[Publicus]

The South Carolina Senate today got the 2/3 or better votes to remove the flag from the state capitol building grounds, 37-3.

So now it's going over to the House for the expected yes vote there tomorrow.

There remains a fierce opposition to the removal with threats of political revenge from the state chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans among other racist groups, organizations, individuals.

We're seeing how isolated many of the same hard core reactionary racists are in SC who had also lost in their opposition years ago to removing the flag from the capitol building to its present location, from which the thing is finally going to be removed forever.

Good riddance and for a better America. Most opponents of removing the flag continue to miss the vital point that a heritage of slavery and racism and going to war to try unsuccessfully to preserve it is not something to wave a flag about.

The OP refers to the "2016 Republican class" of candidates for the presidency and it's clear most Republicans want this issue closed out now and put away to history. It's only the peripheral and sideways fringe of the society that remain adamant about barging forward to holler, wave and whistle in support of this flag.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Publicus

[Merzik]

Please read the article, especially how black people understandable feel about that symbol of slavery and racism. Count me in the 33%, proudly, and I am a southerner, born and raised. Here's a good read, albeit a bit long, but I really don't think some of you will like reading an intelligent article. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/05/whining-white-southerners/

The blacks have been indoctrinated by white liberals and professional black race-hustlers in the MSM and the public education system to believe virtually everything about Western culture and whites is racist and directed against them. Even the Minnesota state flag is under attack now because there is a white farmer working in a field on it. Obviously racist! 555 The blacks are wrong about this and many other issues. The vast majority still vote for the Democratic Welfare State despite the immense harm it has done to them. Blacks are still very much in the minority in this country and should not be allowed to strip the majority of us of our culture and heritage because they feel offended. The almost endless list of things considered racist by blacks has become ridiculous . George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and our Founding Fathers are under attack now too. To keep this irrational minority happy we will ultimately have to commit collective suicide.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Merzik

[Merzik]

Much like white kids, once black kids had access to education. They didn't when I was growing up in SE Texass. And frankly, many black people wouldn't be where they are today without the antidiscrimination laws. Those that don't believe in white privilege are living in fantasy land. And now that we have had another round of subject changing, what exactly does this have to do with the appropriate removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from government property?

It was a liberal who brought up the issue of "white priveldge" ; not a conservative. The only racial privilege in this country is enjoyed by minorities who are given preferance over white males in academia and employment opprtunities. There is no white priveldge in 2015.

[Publicus]

Please read the article, especially how black people understandable feel about that symbol of slavery and racism. Count me in the 33%, proudly, and I am a southerner, born and raised. Here's a good read, albeit a bit long, but I really don't think some of you will like reading an intelligent article. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/05/whining-white-southerners/

The blacks have been indoctrinated by white liberals and professional black race-hustlers in the MSM and the public education system to believe virtually everything about Western culture and whites is racist and directed against them. Even the Minnesota state flag is under attack now because there is a white farmer working in a field on it. Obviously racist! 555 The blacks are wrong about this and many other issues. The vast majority still vote for the Democratic Welfare State despite the immense harm it has done to them. Blacks are still very much in the minority in this country and should not be allowed to strip the majority of us of our culture and heritage because they feel offended. The almost endless list of things considered racist by blacks has become ridiculous . George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and our Founding Fathers are under attack now too. To keep this irrational minority happy we will ultimately have to commit collective suicide.

Extremist rightwing ideological spam.

Most or almost all the Founders were slave owners yet they significantly overcame their negative status in history by writing a constitution and founding a republic rooted in the European Enlightenment, which remains a strong positive as the United States enters the 21st century.

It is a possibility too ugly to consider that the Confederacy might have won to divide the United States by creating the Slaveowner Republic of the Confederacy. It's worth noting the Confederate constitution did not recognize state's rights or secession.

Recognizing the one single major flaw of the Founders does not destroy or weaken the republic. The Founders are not the exclusive Group of The Pures, as some founders are called in some Third World countries and cultures. The Founders of the American Republic were educated visionaries who were and remain fundamentally wise and respectable members of the various public interest groups and political movements of their time, place, circumstance.

The unadulterated nativist crap I and others were taught in primary school for a couple of hundred years hasn't been taught in USA schools for generations now.

On the contrary, assessing the Founders for who they were and remain to succeeding generations strenghtens the Republic going forward into the globalized and diverse 21st century.

Much like white kids, once black kids had access to education. They didn't when I was growing up in SE Texass. And frankly, many black people wouldn't be where they are today without the antidiscrimination laws. Those that don't believe in white privilege are living in fantasy land. And now that we have had another round of subject changing, what exactly does this have to do with the appropriate removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from government property?

It was a liberal who brought up the issue of "white priveldge" ; not a conservative. The only racial privilege in this country is enjoyed by minorities who are given preferance over white males in academia and employment opprtunities. There is no white priveldge in 2015.

Deservedly so, 'white privilege' is being placed in the proper perspective, which is that since the first (successful) settlement in 1620 there has been oppression, prejudice, discrimination against blacks, gays, Jews. Add to that women and generations of immigrants who came voluntarily besides.

Conservatives and rightists especially need at last to notice the red stains that permeate their garden of nice white lilies.

[Merzik]

Please read the article, especially how black people understandable feel about that symbol of slavery and racism. Count me in the 33%, proudly, and I am a southerner, born and raised. Here's a good read, albeit a bit long, but I really don't think some of you will like reading an intelligent article. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/05/whining-white-southerners/

The blacks have been indoctrinated by white liberals and professional black race-hustlers in the MSM and the public education system to believe virtually everything about Western culture and whites is racist and directed against them. Even the Minnesota state flag is under attack now because there is a white farmer working in a field on it. Obviously racist! 555 The blacks are wrong about this and many other issues. The vast majority still vote for the Democratic Welfare State despite the immense harm it has done to them. Blacks are still very much in the minority in this country and should not be allowed to strip the majority of us of our culture and heritage because they feel offended. The almost endless list of things considered racist by blacks has become ridiculous . George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and our Founding Fathers are under attack now too. To keep this irrational minority happy we will ultimately have to commit collective suicide.

Extremist rightwing ideological spam.

Most or almost all the Founders were slave owners yet they significantly overcame their negative status in history by writing a constitution and founding a republic rooted in the European Enlightenment, which remains a strong positive as the United States enters the 21st century.

It is a possibility too ugly to consider that the Confederacy might have won to divide the United States by creating the Slaveowner Republic of the Confederacy. It's worth noting the Confederate constitution did not recognize state's rights or secession.

Recognizing the one single major flaw of the Founders does not destroy or weaken the republic. The Founders are not the exclusive Group of The Pures, as some founders are called in some Third World countries and cultures. The Founders of the American Republic were educated visionaries who were and remain fundamentally wise and respectable members of the various public interest groups and political movements of their time, place, circumstance.

The unadulterated nativist crap I and others were taught in primary school for a couple of hundred years hasn't been taught in USA schools for generations now.

On the contrary, assessing the Founders for who they were and remain to succeeding generations strenghtens the Republic going forward into the globalized and diverse 21st century.

Much like white kids, once black kids had access to education. They didn't when I was growing up in SE Texass. And frankly, many black people wouldn't be where they are today without the antidiscrimination laws. Those that don't believe in white privilege are living in fantasy land. And now that we have had another round of subject changing, what exactly does this have to do with the appropriate removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from government property?

It was a liberal who brought up the issue of "white priveldge" ; not a conservative. The only racial privilege in this country is enjoyed by minorities who are given preferance over white males in academia and employment opprtunities. There is no white priveldge in 2015.

Deservedly so, 'white privilege' is being placed in the proper perspective, which is that since the first (successful) settlement in 1620 there has been oppression, prejudice, discrimination against blacks, gays, Jews. Add to that women and generations of immigrants who came voluntarily besides.

Conservatives and rightists especially need at last to notice the red stains that permeate their garden of nice white lilies.

Europeans and European-Americans discriminated in favor of their own people like every other tribe and country around the world did throughout history. There certainly wasn't anything unique about this. The blacks were hunted down by their fellow blacks and sold to Muslim, Jewish and European slavetraders. A horrific tragedy; but slavery has been practiced around this planet and Europeans have been victimized as well by this barbaric institution. You did at least allude to the Englightment and its influence on our Founding Fathers. The American Revolution they gave the world did not end slavery immediately; but it was an important advancement in this direction and human freedom for everyone. I am afraid many of your progressive buddies are leaving you behind on this matter Publicus. This realistic understanding of our Revolution and founding of our Republic is not shared by much of the left. Washington, Jefferson and others are under attack by them; just as the Confederate flag is. They won't be satisfied until every vestige of European heritage has been erased or dinigrated.

Blacks slaves had it rough allright; nobody will deny this fact or defend the institution of slavery today. They suffered immensely in Africa as well ; at the hands of Arabs and at the hands of other African tribes before the arrival of whites. As tragic as the enslavement of blacks was; this is something which went on all over the planet and its days were clearly numbered in the United States with or without the Civil War. So whites are to accept second class legal status to make up for slavery that ended more than 150 years ago? Few whites ever held slaves or profitted from it; even at its peak. Most whites came to this country after the ending of slavery and we all have a history of being slaves , impoverished serfs and victims of oppression in our home countries. Yet we now being asked by liberals to accept being second class citizens; even to recent African immigrants? Only a liberal could call this justice. The black population skyrocked in the US after 1865; and very few chose to leave despite the segregation in the post-war years. American blacks were better off in white America than back in Africa. They benefited enormously from white advances in technology and science; as did the rest of the population.

To speak of Jews as being victims in the USA is even more absurd. The USA isn't nor has it ever been Czarist Russia. Jews were kept out of a few country clubs but never faced real oppression here and quickly rose to great wealth and positions of real power. There was even significant Jewish participation in the slave trade right alongside with whites. See this article from the Jewish Forward:

http://forward.com/opinion/179441/jews-mostly-supported-slavery-or-kept-silent-d/

Where else in the world have gays had it better than in the USA either? Most historians believe former President James Buchanan was gay; and some think Lincoln was as well. The major religions of Islam, Christanity and Judiasm were all opposed to homosexuality and it wasn't accepted in many places. No reason to single out the United States for being hostile to gays.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Merzik

[Publicus]

The blacks have been indoctrinated by white liberals and professional black race-hustlers in the MSM and the public education system to believe virtually everything about Western culture and whites is racist and directed against them. Even the Minnesota state flag is under attack now because there is a white farmer working in a field on it. Obviously racist! 555 The blacks are wrong about this and many other issues. The vast majority still vote for the Democratic Welfare State despite the immense harm it has done to them. Blacks are still very much in the minority in this country and should not be allowed to strip the majority of us of our culture and heritage because they feel offended. The almost endless list of things considered racist by blacks has become ridiculous . George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and our Founding Fathers are under attack now too. To keep this irrational minority happy we will ultimately have to commit collective suicide.

Extremist rightwing ideological spam.

Most or almost all the Founders were slave owners yet they significantly overcame their negative status in history by writing a constitution and founding a republic rooted in the European Enlightenment, which remains a strong positive as the United States enters the 21st century.

It is a possibility too ugly to consider that the Confederacy might have won to divide the United States by creating the Slaveowner Republic of the Confederacy. It's worth noting the Confederate constitution did not recognize state's rights or secession.

Recognizing the one single major flaw of the Founders does not destroy or weaken the republic. The Founders are not the exclusive Group of The Pures, as some founders are called in some Third World countries and cultures. The Founders of the American Republic were educated visionaries who were and remain fundamentally wise and respectable members of the various public interest groups and political movements of their time, place, circumstance.

The unadulterated nativist crap I and others were taught in primary school for a couple of hundred years hasn't been taught in USA schools for generations now.

On the contrary, assessing the Founders for who they were and remain to succeeding generations strenghtens the Republic going forward into the globalized and diverse 21st century.

It was a liberal who brought up the issue of "white priveldge" ; not a conservative. The only racial privilege in this country is enjoyed by minorities who are given preferance over white males in academia and employment opprtunities. There is no white priveldge in 2015.

Deservedly so, 'white privilege' is being placed in the proper perspective, which is that since the first (successful) settlement in 1620 there has been oppression, prejudice, discrimination against blacks, gays, Jews. Add to that women and generations of immigrants who came voluntarily besides.

Conservatives and rightists especially need at last to notice the red stains that permeate their garden of nice white lilies.

Europeans and European-Americans discriminated in favor of their own people like every other tribe and country around the world did throughout history. There certainly wasn't anything unique about this. The blacks were hunted down by their fellow blacks and sold to Muslim, Jewish and European slavetraders. A horrific tragedy; but slavery has been practiced around this planet and Europeans have been victimized as well by this barbaric institution. You did at least allude to the Englightment and its influence on our Founding Fathers. The American Revolution they gave the world did not end slavery immediately; but it was an important advancement in this direction and human freedom for everyone. I am afraid many of your progressive buddies are leaving you behind on this matter Publicus. This realistic understanding of our Revolution and founding of our Republic is not shared by much of the left. Washington, Jefferson and others are under attack by them; just as the Confederate flag is. They won't be satisfied until every vestige of European heritage has been erased or dinigrated.

Blacks slaves had it rough allright; nobody will deny this fact or defend the institution of slavery today. They suffered immensely in Africa as well ; at the hands of Arabs and at the hands of other African tribes before the arrival of whites. As tragic as the enslavement of blacks was; this is something which went on all over the planet and its days were clearly numbered in the United States with or without the Civil War. So whites are to accept second class legal status to make up for slavery that ended more than 150 years ago? Few whites ever held slaves or profitted from it; even at its peak. Most whites came to this country after the ending of slavery and we all have a history of being slaves , impoverished serfs and victims of oppression in our home countries. Yet we now being asked by liberals to accept being second class citizens; even to recent African immigrants? Only a liberal could call this justice. The black population skyrocked in the US after 1865; and very few chose to leave despite the segregation in the post-war years. American blacks were better off in white America than back in Africa. They benefited enormously from white advances in technology and science; as did the rest of the population.

To speak of Jews as being victims in the USA is even more absurd. The USA isn't nor has it ever been Czarist Russia. Jews were kept out of a few country clubs but never faced real oppression here and quickly rose to great wealth and positions of real power. There was even significant Jewish participation in the slave trade right alongside with whites. See this article from the Jewish Forward:

http://forward.com/opinion/179441/jews-mostly-supported-slavery-or-kept-silent-d/

Where else in the world have gays had it better than in the USA either? Most historians believe former President James Buchanan was gay; and some think Lincoln was as well. The major religions of Islam, Christanity and Judiasm were all opposed to homosexuality and it wasn't accepted in many places. No reason to single out the United States for being hostile to gays.

The right have only massive apologia and a bizarre support and justification of the evils of the world and of the United States each and together, past and present.

Rightists and other conservatives spend a great of their time, energy, resources and effort to sell the historical and frequently violent enslavement of blacks specifically, malevolent discrimination and prejudice against gay people, and of a poison of bias and persistent discrimination against Jews.

Still the conservatives and the far right omit women and immigrants from among the aggrieved throughout the course of the young history of the United States. Yet the right are unable to recognize that, had the USA existed a thousand years ago, Americans too would be directly responsible for the unenlightened shadows cast by history; or two thousand years ago. The inexorable link of culture and civilisation is unmistakable.

Equally amazing, the American nativist conservatives and rightists try to make the pains and suffering of the affected peoples in the USA sound like it was pretty good because all of it was, after all, in the USA. Fact is, that in history there are no good or honorable people who shamelessly or without any pangs of guilt practiced any of these forms of majoritarian oppression and repression.

Indeed, the right speaks from deep within the recesses and the shadows of caves.

[arunsakda]

The Governor of Alabama ® took the flag down without ceremony or legislation. Good, that flag does not deserve the dignity of debate. It is a flag of treason, a flag of hate, flown by those who do not believe all are "created equal " People who don't understand this are just plain ignorant. Same with those who cannot understand the long historical threads of domestic terrorism directed at black churches. In the aftermath of the attacks many more churches burn, media reacts with silence. One CVS burns and FOX covers it for days and days. A woman who scaled a pole in SC To take down a flag has already spent more time in jail than a policeman who brutalized a child in a bikini. She faces 3 years in jail and fines. The officer has not been charged. Anyone who thinks this is balanced journalism and racism is over in America is either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.

"By taking down that flag we express gods grace" - Barrack Hussein Obama

Edited July 8, 2015 by arunsakda

[sgtsabai]

Here is a decent read: http://warincontext.org/2015/07/07/greg-grandin-how-endless-war-helps-old-dixie-stay-new/ OK now for something on the lighter sied and we all should be able to agree the "confederate flag" does need to go in this instance:

[sgtsabai]

Well, that didn't work very well. Sorry, get get a pic into here. Edit, etc. doesn't work for me.

[sgtsabai]

Again, apologies for the non-editing. Here is another short article by a southerner and historian. Note: I do have a long time connection to some of the folks at "The Rag" dating back to the early days of the 70's. http://www.theragblog.com/vikki-bynum-racial-violence-history-and-the-debate-over-the-confederate-flag/ . I also know just a bit about the "Big Thicket" as it was just a few miles up the road and out of the swamps and marshes where I was raised, it had its share also. My mom taught school there back in the late 20's, Sour Lake.

[stevenl]

House of representatives has also voted to remove the flag.

[lifeincnx]

Bravo South Carolina!

The State House of Representatives voted 94 to 20 to finally remove the Confederate battle flag from capitol grounds. The U.S.A. seems to be on a trend of getting things right back home.

Many posters here have pushed the mythical notion of the Confederacy as some ideal, when in reality it has always been about advancing inequality. Or, it was about States rights, some say - another complete myth. One only has to look at the country-wide maps of who culturally supported or fought against interracial marriage, school integration, same-sex marriage, and the seldom discussed 19th amendment giving the women the right to vote. The Confederate states, in near lock-step, fought against equality every step of the way.

“It is a new day in South Carolina, a day we can all be proud of, a day that truly brings us all together as we continue to heal, as one people and one state,” [Gov] Haley said in a statement after the vote, which she watched from her wing of offices just below the House chamber.

Long may the right flag wave.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/us/confederate-flag-south-carolina.html?_r=0

Edited July 9, 2015 by lifeincnx