Thailand and China - TIES OF BLOOD AND CULTURE

[ExPratt]

I did respond to this but must have been too many posts. Basically the PRC Chinese have lived under a regime that basically stifled their natural ambition and in some cases stifled them completely. Engineers and senior managers I worked with 10 -12 years ago would not question or challenge any policy decisions . Joining the communist party was then a bit like the Masons , you joined to get on in your career. Since when i have worked in Taiwan , Malaysia and Singapore I have found those Chinese nationals far more expressive in their work

[Srikcir]

"China and Thailand will celebrate 40 years of deepening diplomatic relations."

Thailand wasn't celebrating the Chinese inspired communist insurgency in Thailand from the 1920's to the 1980's. But now that the Junta feels its own soverignty is being threatened by the Thai majority, it looks like old enemies are now celebrating their NEW partnerships. No doubt we'll be seeing a new survey showing that 95% of Thai people wish they could be part of China.

[Lingba]

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts Chinese offering business deals or aid.

Trojan horses disguised as money.

Well thats a no brainer for the Chinese...anything coming close to resembling money, the Thais will grab it in a heartbeat...

Easy bait

[Tomtomtom69]

Thailand is ruled by the Chinese Elite, anyone who says different is seriously deluded.....HI/So Hey......

I don't agree with you, the the rulers of this country are Thai in some cases of Chinese ancestry but they are Thai, and as the 99% of the Thai -Chinese they don't even speak Chinese, and in my experience most of Thai people that I know-even those of Chinese ancestry- don't like Chinese people in general, they regard them as barbarians, nasty and unworthy of trust.

+1

You took the words right out of my mouth.

As you rightly say, the process of nationalisation and creating a distinct Thai identity has resulted in ethnic Chinese Thais (who, unlike their Malaysian and Singaporean counterparts have mostly interrmarried with local Thais, which is something most westerners don't seem to realize) adopting a Thai identity with a Thai surname etc. Yes, they may be somewhat lighter skinned than their rural or working class ethnic Thai, Mon, Khmer, Lao or hill tribe counterparts, but to suggest that the Chinese-Thais have any special allegience to China is absurd. As you rightly claim, few Thais, even those of Chinese heritage even speak Chinese and unless they are doing business with China, why would they? Other Thais around them are speaking Thai! In fact, a very small number of Thai-Chinese elite even speak English with their children. I know a couple who do this.

Chinese-Thais, like all other Thais are actually at a disadvantage when it comes to entering China, or the Chinese market, relative to Chinese coming the other way. Visas are easier to get for Chinese coming to Thailand. The Chinese can easily drive their cars down to Thailand, but the Thais can't drive their cars up to China. Only really big Thai conglomerates such as CP have penetrated the Chinese market successfully. While it may help that the family who owns the company is ethnic Chinese, what helps them more is the amount of money they have and their business acumen.

[Tomtomtom69]

Thailand is ruled by the Chinese Elite, anyone who says different is seriously deluded.....HI/So Hey......

I don't agree with you, the the rulers of this country are Thai in some cases of Chinese ancestry but they are Thai, and as the 99% of the Thai -Chinese they don't even speak Chinese, and in my experience most of Thai people that I know-even those of Chinese ancestry- don't like Chinese people in general, they regard them as barbarians, nasty and unworthy of trust.

True. But why do many (most?) Thais of Chinese descent only allow their children to marry others of the same descent. That is, they would balk at allowing their sons or daughters from marrying an ethnic Thai. They think of themselves as Thai in all respects and yet their actions don't correspond with their thoughts.

That is debatable. I know a LOT of ethnic Chinese, or should I say more accurately, mixed Chinese/other Asian (Lao, Khmer, Thai, Mon etc.) Thais. Most do NOT look at themselves or their future spouses as having to be ethnic "Chinese" but simply, light-colored in complexion. It's as simple as that. Money and power and how much the other party has is also important. There have been many marriages of ethnic Chinese and non-ethnic Chinese Thais too, with the most important criterion being how much money the other party has. When it comes to skin color, it's more important that the bride is whiter than the groom. Overall it's a lot more complicated than most people think because for starters, most Chinese-Thais already have non-Han or non-Chinese blood. This is a key difference between them and their Malaysian and Singaporean Chinese counterparts who surprisingly have managed to avoid intermarriage with other groups for the most part.

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand is ruled by the Chinese Elite, anyone who says different is seriously deluded.....HI/So Hey......

I don't agree with you, the the rulers of this country are Thai in some cases of Chinese ancestry but they are Thai, and as the 99% of the Thai -Chinese they don't even speak Chinese, and in my experience most of Thai people that I know-even those of Chinese ancestry- don't like Chinese people in general, they regard them as barbarians, nasty and unworthy of trust.

+1

You took the words right out of my mouth.

As you rightly say, the process of nationalisation and creating a distinct Thai identity has resulted in ethnic Chinese Thais (who, unlike their Malaysian and Singaporean counterparts have mostly interrmarried with local Thais, which is something most westerners don't seem to realize) adopting a Thai identity with a Thai surname etc. Yes, they may be somewhat lighter skinned than their rural or working class ethnic Thai, Mon, Khmer, Lao or hill tribe counterparts, but to suggest that the Chinese-Thais have any special allegience to China is absurd. As you rightly claim, few Thais, even those of Chinese heritage even speak Chinese and unless they are doing business with China, why would they? Other Thais around them are speaking Thai! In fact, a very small number of Thai-Chinese elite even speak English with their children. I know a couple who do this.

Chinese-Thais, like all other Thais are actually at a disadvantage when it comes to entering China, or the Chinese market, relative to Chinese coming the other way. Visas are easier to get for Chinese coming to Thailand. The Chinese can easily drive their cars down to Thailand, but the Thais can't drive their cars up to China. Only really big Thai conglomerates such as CP have penetrated the Chinese market successfully. While it may help that the family who owns the company is ethnic Chinese, what helps them more is the amount of money they have and their business acumen.

U do realise that the single largest corporate investor in China is a Thai Chinese company. At a high level, Thai Chinese businesses have access to the very highest levels of Chinese govt.

The everyday Chinese doesn't have a clue that Chia Tai is a Thai company.

[tonbridgebrit]

Yes, Nation Newspaper. Go ahead and tell everybody that the Thais are actually mainly a bunch of Chinese who are living in Thailand ! A bit like how the Americans are mainly a bunch of Europeans living in America. What about how the Australians are actually mainly a bunch of Brits living in Australia ?

Is this why Thailand is NOT going to reduce the number of Chinese tourists turning up in Thailand ? How absurd would it be if Australia wanted to limit the number of British tourists going to Australia ? People would just look at those Australians, and say 'oh, so it was okay for your grand-dad to leave England and go there permanently, but it's not okay for us to go there for a holiday'. Same as a load of Canadians and Americans if THEY don't want to see loads of European tourists in North America !!

[Heng]

Thai history, the official version, prides itself on declaring that Thailand has never been colonized -- even though most of the region was Khmer for several hundred years, Ayuttaya was in the possession of Myanmar for a long time (after having been sacked more than twice), and Thailand is now colonized by Chinese sperm, Chinese currency, and even Chinese banks. The Thais in power are of Chinese descent, not local blood at all -- and they hate any Thai with skin darker than China white. Hilariously, the Chinese they worship are Han, and not even the majority in China by a long shot....

Go figure...

The Han are the majority by a longshot. The Thai Chinese are ethnically Han as well. And no, we do not hate the local work force and there has been plenty of 'race' mixing between the ethnic Thais and Thai Chinese, just not as much so on the elite level, but that's the norm for most societies. Our takeover has been mostly painless and mutually beneficial. Compare to the Anglo - Native American or Anglo - Native Australian colonizations.

:-)

[tonbridgebrit]

Thailand is ruled by the Chinese Elite, anyone who says different is seriously deluded.....HI/So Hey......

So why do you think they (Thai-Chinese,BKK elite Hi-so) can't accept the poor farmers electing their own political rep to PM? Hold power at any cost.

Just take a look at what they (China) are doing to their neighbor's and others, claiming the whole south China sea, citing old trade routs as proof they are owners, What a load of Bull,,, I would suggest the Polynesians and their descendants would have a much earlier proof of trade routs using that format.

Not satisfied with the repression and control via politics and military force of their own countrymen but trying to annex others with saber rattling, subterfuge, and direct confrontation, the goal, global domination, don't laugh, just a theory.

"War is a matter not so much of arms as of money" (Thucydides) 460-400 BC. Greek historian.

Throughout history every super-power that has tried to dominate the world has risen and eventually fallen.

China has a big check book and half the worlds gold locked up and it's currency the (Yuan) which will be backed by gold rather the fiat system as is the US Dollar is now playing a much bigger role today and tomorrow.

But hey, he who pays the piper calls the tunes.

Yes, aussieinthailand, the Chinese in China are trying to expand into other countries. Where did they learn this from ? They probably noticed that Britain (England) took over new places like America, Canada, New Zealand and AUSTRALIA, and that's why they're doing it themselves.

They have no original ideas themselves, but they love copying other people !!

[Heng]

I think that's the 'toast' at the Zenith Electronics founders club meetings.

:-)

[tonbridgebrit]

Thailand is ruled by the Chinese Elite, anyone who says different is seriously deluded.....HI/So Hey......

I don't agree with you, the the rulers of this country are Thai in some cases of Chinese ancestry but they are Thai, and as the 99% of the Thai -Chinese they don't even speak Chinese, and in my experience most of Thai people that I know-even those of Chinese ancestry- don't like Chinese people in general, they regard them as barbarians, nasty and unworthy of trust.

True. But why do many (most?) Thais of Chinese descent only allow their children to marry others of the same descent. That is, they would balk at allowing their sons or daughters from marrying an ethnic Thai. They think of themselves as Thai in all respects and yet their actions don't correspond with their thoughts.

That is debatable. I know a LOT of ethnic Chinese, or should I say more accurately, mixed Chinese/other Asian (Lao, Khmer, Thai, Mon etc.) Thais. Most do NOT look at themselves or their future spouses as having to be ethnic "Chinese" but simply, light-colored in complexion. It's as simple as that. Money and power and how much the other party has is also important. There have been many marriages of ethnic Chinese and non-ethnic Chinese Thais too, with the most important criterion being how much money the other party has. When it comes to skin color, it's more important that the bride is whiter than the groom. Overall it's a lot more complicated than most people think because for starters, most Chinese-Thais already have non-Han or non-Chinese blood. This is a key difference between them and their Malaysian and Singaporean Chinese counterparts who surprisingly have managed to avoid intermarriage with other groups for the most part.

Let's get real here. It's not just a case of Chinese people thinking whether they are OR are not Chinese. It's also a case of whether the society they are in (or the rest of the world) reckons they are Chinese or not.

Now, with Jewish people, it's the nose and the Jewish surname that makes them Jeweish or not. With 'black' people, it's the 'dark' skin that makes them 'black' or not. With Hispanics, it's the Spanish sounding name.

Okay, with Chinese, it's in the EYES. People who might be Chinese or not, well, they will usually know if they are Chinese or not. And if they are not sure, they can easily find out by walking around the streets in places like England, Canada and Australia. If they do that, and if one or two local people walk up to them, and if the local person pulls his eyes back (to make the eyes look more slitty), then, that means the Chinese person is Chinese. The local person might also do a wai (put their hands together, and raise the hands together up to the chest) even though the local person has never been to Thailand. They might also start doing karate chops into the air.

[ggt]

Yes...Yes...If Thailand plays their political cards correctly...they may one day soon be annexed as an extension of China...and enjoy all the benefits of living in an oppressive communist society...good on ya...

[masquerade]

In times of difficulty, we have often extended each other a helping hand. Never truer words said, Thai hand gives, Chinese hand takes