Bar Owners, Divers Targeted

[serpentine]

People working illegally in these industries are been targeted.......apparently. Obviously working without a permit here is the same as working without a permit in any other country, and if you are caught you will suffer the consequences. I hope the thai immigration and policy makers realise the economy generated from these industries. A lot of foreigners in these industries are helping create jobs in the tourist sector, and involved in teaching locals how to manage businesses that generate on going jobs and income. I am not talking about the "undesirables". I own bars in the south and in the last 10 years can count at least 10 staff who were unemployed, and after experience and training in this industry, have their own bars and restaurants now. most foreigners working here (even without permits) are helping Thailand become a more cosmopolitan destination. Those "vermin" involved in undesirable business are usually in cohouts with local authority figures. Perhaps Thailand has greater issues to deal with rather than making it more difficult for tourists with time and money to come and go as they please. Any thoughts?

[cclub75]

I agree 100 % with your first sentence.

"working without a permit here is the same as working without a permit in any other country, and if you are caught you will suffer the consequences."

That's the bottom line : Thailand is just following what many countries already do.

And it will still remain "open" for tourisme with the "visa exemption stamps" for nationals of 41 countries.

But I'm not convinced with your conclusions.

You don't make an economy with bar owners and divers... Sorry to say that.

Mass tourism = transportation + accomodations + catering.

And if any void, it will be quickly fill .

People working illegally in these industries are been targeted.......apparently. Obviously working without a permit here is the same as working without a permit in any other country, and if you are caught you will suffer the consequences. I hope the thai immigration and policy makers realise the economy generated from these industries. A lot of foreigners in these industries are helping create jobs in the tourist sector, and involved in teaching locals how to manage businesses that generate on going jobs and income. I am not talking about the "undesirables". I own bars in the south and in the last 10 years can count at least 10 staff who were unemployed, and after experience and training in this industry, have their own bars and restaurants now. most foreigners working here (even without permits) are helping Thailand become a more cosmopolitan destination. Those "vermin" involved in undesirable business are usually in cohouts with local authority figures. Perhaps Thailand has greater issues to deal with rather than making it more difficult for tourists with time and money to come and go as they please. Any thoughts?

[kiakaha]

I have thoughts. Your argument, it seems reasonable enough, is probably more effective if posed to the thai government rather than posted on a foreigner forum. Time to walk the talk ? After all you DO want results right ? It is one thing to have the thought, it is one thing to express the thought on a forum ,it is another thing to act on that thought!!! think about it

[serpentine]

Bars, restaurants and diving are negligble to the thai economy as a whole, however the development of these two industries in southern islands and the foreign input has been essential in tourism. The Gulf islands have come a long way. Many of the tourists here came originally as backpackers in the early 90's. They no longer wan't to drink from buckets, or stay in grass huts. They love Thailand because they can come and go and it is great value for money. Every foreigner I know with a bar, restaurant or dive school directly causes 10-100 tourist to come and spend a month in Thailand every year. If these business owners are treated badly by Immigration officials, which is bound to happen, even if all the paper work is in order, Thailand will lose the trust of small business owners and all these potential repeat tourists.

[jdinasia]

I would assume no "bar" or even "restaurant" CAUSES ANY customers to come to Thailand

[serpentine]

Thaivisa.com is where we ask questions and try to get the lowdown on what the expats living here are thinking. Would love to "walk the walk". Difficult when I don't read the language, although can speak and understand it. I have a low IQ and probably should have embraced written thai in my 8 years here but not likely. I am sure you have dealt with Immigration. They are rarely helpful at the best of times. I am just thinking this whole thing will backfire as tourists get stranded in Burma etc. It may filter out some vermin, but it is more likely to effect decent long stayers that do stay here long term because it is not too difficult.

Which thai forums do you suggest I look at?

[lapamita]

[

i am not a bar owner or restaurantowner or however

but thais !!! you know why your country come so famous

because their was an easy living culture, fine bars, fine diningrestaurants,everything.....and lot is done by foreigners who make it under veryhard conditions and low incomes

thats why foreigners stay longtime and spend a lot here, it was all easy!!!

if you have only thairestaurants and cheap karaokebars, who want to stay here for longtime

yes visit once and go,,,, like other countrys ,, now thaigov is breaking down on this fantastic infrastructure.

my parents come in winter for enijoy here, why they come long beacuse i stay here!

but this year they have to cut 1 month because i can stay only 3 month..................

i am spending here around 100000 thb every month,,,,,, i already cut down, because enjoy bars and restaurants,,,,,, since one week my head is somewhere sels.......................

i feel sorry for smallbuissenes owners if thai or foreigners........................

both suffer, nobody wins.................

and the rich elite class get a bite in their own a................ in the long run,,,,but for them no problem they book it as an NPL

the goverment is now nationalistic because their econommyproblems ( the grothrate in BIP below region),, so they target foreigners, that people not think of their real problems in the goverment

quote name=serpentine' date='2006-09-15 22:21:32' post='896359]

Bars, restaurants and diving are negligble to the thai economy as a whole, however the development of these two industries in southern islands and the foreign input has been essential in tourism. The Gulf islands have come a long way. Many of the tourists here came originally as backpackers in the early 90's. They no longer wan't to drink from buckets, or stay in grass huts. They love Thailand because they can come and go and it is great value for money. Every foreigner I know with a bar, restaurant or dive school directly causes 10-100 tourist to come and spend a month in Thailand every year. If these business owners are treated badly by Immigration officials, which is bound to happen, even if all the paper work is in order, Thailand will lose the trust of small business owners and all these potential repeat tourists.

[chuchok]

Thaivisa.com is where we ask questions and try to get the lowdown on what the expats living here are thinking. Would love to "walk the walk". Difficult when I don't read the language, although can speak and understand it. I have a low IQ and probably should have embraced written thai in my 8 years here but not likely. I am sure you have dealt with Immigration. They are rarely helpful at the best of times. I am just thinking this whole thing will backfire as tourists get stranded in Burma etc. It may filter out some vermin, but it is more likely to effect decent long stayers that do stay here long term because it is not too difficult.

Which thai forums do you suggest I look at?

I agree.

[Phil Conners]

All those posts about the same thing. This is NOT about logic or money but simply politics.

The current political climate says "farang go home" and that's all there is to it.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Phil Conners

[serpentine]

I am confused. Are you a tourist? Where I live the combination of excellent bars, restaurants and parties is purely the reason people return. Half the visitors to this island return yearly simply because they love the quality selection of nightlife.

Why would a tourist return to a place where all the bars and restaurants were crap? Or return to an island where the diving was crap and all the fish were dead? Point been it IS the small touches like quality businesses that cause tourists to return. On the islands the foreign influence has been essential in pushing the bar higher to create a very competitive and quality hospitality industry.

Next time I take a holiday I am going to choose a destination with the worst bars and restaurants I have ever found in the whole world. Cause that makes sense doesn't it.

[lapamita]

@jidasia

you think thats what people make come ???? one of the pictures i send to your goverment in person result zero until today

you think its the war on the streets???

the plasticbag rubish from thais ,fishermans, and so on??????

you think somtam make them come

clean up your beaches and streets, clean up the trafic that somebody can pass the street!!!!

ther are the really thaiproblems

€€

Thaivisa.com is where we ask questions and try to get the lowdown on what the expats living here are thinking. Would love to "walk the walk". Difficult when I don't read the language, although can speak and understand it. I have a low IQ and probably should have embraced written thai in my 8 years here but not likely. I am sure you have dealt with Immigration. They are rarely helpful at the best of times. I am just thinking this whole thing will backfire as tourists get stranded in Burma etc. It may filter out some vermin, but it is more likely to effect decent long stayers that do stay here long term because it is not too difficult.

Which thai forums do you suggest I look at?

I agree.

[jdinasia]

Serp -------

DON'T BE THICK

yes good places to eat and drink are important! ... but no bar (on its own <possibly excluding hook joints>) or restaurant on its own causes 10-100 people to return here ...

I don't know a single person that said "Hey let's go to Thailand to eat at ______" or "have a dink at ______"

[lapamita]

@jidasia

you think thats what people make come ???? one of the pictures i send to your goverment in person result zero until today

you think its the war on the streets???

the plasticbag rubish from thais ,fishermans, and so on??????

you think somtam make them come

clean up your beaches and streets, clean up the trafic that somebody can pass the street!!!!

ther are the really thaiproblems

€€

Thaivisa.com is where we ask questions and try to get the lowdown on what the expats living here are thinking. Would love to "walk the walk". Difficult when I don't read the language, although can speak and understand it. I have a low IQ and probably should have embraced written thai in my 8 years here but not likely. I am sure you have dealt with Immigration. They are rarely helpful at the best of times. I am just thinking this whole thing will backfire as tourists get stranded in Burma etc. It may filter out some vermin, but it is more likely to effect decent long stayers that do stay here long term because it is not too difficult.

Which thai forums do you suggest I look at?

I agree.

Thaivisa.com is where we ask questions and try to get the lowdown on what the expats living here are thinking. Would love to "walk the walk". Difficult when I don't read the language, although can speak and understand it. I have a low IQ and probably should have embraced written thai in my 8 years here but not likely. I am sure you have dealt with Immigration. They are rarely helpful at the best of times. I am just thinking this whole thing will backfire as tourists get stranded in Burma etc. It may filter out some vermin, but it is more likely to effect decent long stayers that do stay here long term because it is not too difficult.

Which thai forums do you suggest I look at?

I agree.

[jdinasia]

Lapa? what?

[lapamita]

but i know a lot of peole incl my parents who say the first day

lets go eat thai, a big fish their.............. and after a week.....lets go back to this german restaurant,or to that one, or to that one................ or even lets go to this bar, the nice guy from...................,,,,, and most time i have to tell my mother sorry new owner

you know why

because it is really really hard to run a buissenes here

you could give me a smallbuissenes free,, i would say NO THANK YOU,,, do to lack of income

and now it go worse

look another picture of sukerpuk a big problem

ignorance of many is a big problem ( i am thai i knoooooooooooowwww,,,,,and after nothing happens,,,greatings to all local managers of condos and mediumclass hotels)

@jidasia

you think thats what people make come ???? one of the pictures i send to your goverment in person result zero until today

you think its the war on the streets???

the plasticbag rubish from thais ,fishermans, and so on??????

you think somtam make them come

clean up your beaches and streets, clean up the trafic that somebody can pass the street!!!!

ther are the really thaiproblems

€€

Thaivisa.com is where we ask questions and try to get the lowdown on what the expats living here are thinking. Would love to "walk the walk". Difficult when I don't read the language, although can speak and understand it. I have a low IQ and probably should have embraced written thai in my 8 years here but not likely. I am sure you have dealt with Immigration. They are rarely helpful at the best of times. I am just thinking this whole thing will backfire as tourists get stranded in Burma etc. It may filter out some vermin, but it is more likely to effect decent long stayers that do stay here long term because it is not too difficult.

Which thai forums do you suggest I look at?

I agree.

Thaivisa.com is where we ask questions and try to get the lowdown on what the expats living here are thinking. Would love to "walk the walk". Difficult when I don't read the language, although can speak and understand it. I have a low IQ and probably should have embraced written thai in my 8 years here but not likely. I am sure you have dealt with Immigration. They are rarely helpful at the best of times. I am just thinking this whole thing will backfire as tourists get stranded in Burma etc. It may filter out some vermin, but it is more likely to effect decent long stayers that do stay here long term because it is not too difficult.

Which thai forums do you suggest I look at?

I agree.

[serpentine]

Funny. Everyone I know chooses a venue to go out to at night which they enjoy. And many people return to small tourists spots (like Koh Tao, pai, Vang Vieng etc) purely for the discerning mix of venues.

Let's don't get off the point. Are you saying that Thailand will be a better destination without the foreign influence in hospitality, botique resorts, diving etc?

[serpentine]

Yes you are right. The bigger issue is Taksin using nationalism to try to distract thais from the fact that he is destroying and cheating the country. This visa issue is insignifigant compared to bigger issues, although this kind of nationalism of "foreigners out!" (unless they are rich) is indicitive of more turmoil to follow.

This all started when Taksin decided that backpackers are undesirable tourists. He wanted to close down the full Moon party on Phangan. He fails to see that the backpackers are the 5 star tourists eventually. I guess Immigration figure that anyone without a corporate visa working for a big multi national or an international school in an undesirable. Unfortunate because backpackers are more culturally sensative and polite. They spend the same money as a two weeker holiday maker but over a longer period. many of these border visa runners are backpackers who have saved to spend a year on the road in S E Asia. I guess the surrounding back packer friendly countries will benifit.

[lapamita]

YES I AGREE IN FULL !!!!!!

and second when my parents come to holiday they spent less money than me,belive me.

the horrible thing on it is, that i speak so good about that country , that my mother was signing a contract to buy a condo, just last time, and wnat to join in dezember.............and i have to leave.

you think my parents ( pension) they woud bought here, if i am not here??? NEVER !!!!!

thailand was heir first country visit outside europe in 2003, and they enjoyed........

and now ?????? MR TAXIN??????? it all startet with this goverment,,,i hope we get one juanlikpai zurueck,,, naaj taxin ist ja nicht ganz thai,,deshalb die anlehnung an china, und weg von den western leuten ,,, und die durchschauen die machenschaften schneller ,und erst recht die nichtalkeholiker unter den auslaendern die lange hier sind. die BKK post und die NATIOn die sind voll von dne wirklchen problemen thailands, und die liegen woanders

gruss

Yes you are right. The bigger issue is Taksin using nationalism to try to distract thais from the fact that he is destroying and cheating the country. This visa issue is insignifigant compared to bigger issues, although this kind of nationalism of "foreigners out!" (unless they are rich) is indicitive of more turmoil to follow.

This all started when Taksin decided that backpackers are undesirable tourists. He wanted to close down the full Moon party on Phangan. He fails to see that the backpackers are the 5 star tourists eventually. I guess Immigration figure that anyone without a corporate visa working for a big multi national or an international school in an undesirable. Unfortunate because backpackers are more culturally sensative and polite. They spend the same money as a two weeker holiday maker but over a longer period. many of these border visa runners are backpackers who have saved to spend a year on the road in S E Asia. I guess the surrounding back packer friendly countries will benifit.