Big Impact Expected From Tougher Visa Rules

[bkkandrew]

OK here is what I see at this particular moment.

First is to the best of my knowledge this still has not been in the Thai media. The longer the delay in getting there the more it suggests that this is politically motivated and has little or nothing to do with the reasons cited by the Thais. Why has it only appeared in English media? For a country that is a tourist destination, news of tourist visa changes should be front page on all Thai papers.

Very simply it is time to be proactive and not reactive. Don’t think so much about yourself, but think about the Thais that you see and know. Get the word out to the working Thais as they are the ones who will suffer when the people leave Thailand. Help them connect the dots if they don’t see it. If they know they will make some noise. It is that noise and possibly only that will end this. So push away from the keyboard and spend some time talking to the Thais.

The key point I will mention again for the people who may have missed it. The people who will be effected by this have been integrated into the Thai economy. They don’t stay in hotels but they stay in apartments. Hundreds of not more of non tourist related Thai businesses have started up to support them and have them as customers. The revenue generated by them is significant. It would have about the same impact as Thailand ejecting all Muslims or any other group that is part of the economy.

I would be very curious to hear what the Thai news editor has to say about this and why it was not in the news.

Nothing, nada, zero, zilch in the 4 dailies I have read today... Not made the news either...

[Nemo.]

If that is the offial statement, immigration police say a tourist may only stay in the country for 90 days, then must leave the country for 90 days. Seems pretty clear to me, tourists are now 90 days max.

Ray

I think its going to be 90 days of VOA via overland border checkpoints. If you have tourist visa then the 90 days does not start counting until your visa expires. Also a Nation article I read and something from Sunbelt said if you fly in then that VOA does not count toward your 90.

and thru all this the immigration people will have descretion.

What I think they have finally done smart is to take the revenue away from neighboring countries and charge internally. What I don't understand though is why not have a category of visa where the applicant just pays 20K baht for a year of no border runs. That would cover a lot of lost tax revenue.

If you are not a tourist while having a tourist visa......... Then what are you?

It also says that I will have to return to my country of origin, after 90 days, to apply for another visa, I assume that this means the United States, for me.

Ray

They can make the person report every 90 days and take their picture or other biometrics and use the revenue to link their computers with Interpol etc and if there is a bad guy in LOS then its easy to track him down. The Thai government could become a model for global accountability if they wanted to but of course TIT.

Simplest thing for Thailnd to do would be to issue 90 day "on arrival" visas like Malaysia (or keep 30 like present). This could be "multiple entry" BUT not allowed to have another for 90 days after that. Hence a tourist could come in, visit other countries, with ease. This would also allow those intending to work 90 days to find work and get a non-B visa sorted. Long enough I think

Even with the present rules MOST tourists come on 1 or 2 week package tours. Student backpackers spend less money so less important if they get into a muddle leaving and coming back (maybe imi could be given the power to give more than 3 tourist visas if someone obviously is travelling).

I only know that fillipinos are getting scared! And illegal foreign call centres will loose most of their staff.......

[F1 Visa Runner]

This whole situation raises a lot of other questions related to foreigners in Thailand. The country`s tourism to be 17 % of the GDP. This is a huge slice of the GDP and shows this country to be totally depending on tourists and foreigners. Then comes all foreign investments in every form.

I would say the Thai people should stay in a constant "Wai" for us foreigners. They should be so thankful for all the trillions of baht that have been pumped in here and if it wasnt for this I would like to see where Thailand would have been today.

We all being here contribute a lot to this country`s wealth wether it would be

sticking a couple of thousand baht into the pocket of an old senile family member in Isaan,

making a manufacturer plant with thousands of employees,

screwing girls down a Nana,

sending beautiful photos we all take with our digiatal cameras to friends and family all over the world,

talking about this country,

The fact is that even most criminals contribute to this wealth by living here.

Thailand has never lost a single satang on criminals living here. They might missed out on some taxes paid but have a look at Bandidos case, nobody wants them here.. but they did bring into Thailand some 3 billion baht. These money is now spread all over this green carpet.

You see.. we all contribute in a way or another.

It is limited how much money you can make on exporting rice around the world,

and like one said in a thread on this forum some time ago, "what have the thai people ever done for the worlds community"... its about nothing..nada..zero!

The truth is that the average thai doesnt have a clue about what social economy is and what it takes to build a nations economy.

If all thais soon dont pull themselves toghether and stand up to get this country back on track things could be bad here.

Sometimes I think " Why the heck do they let all this crap happen here, they must be total stupid these people!

Honestly, they should have a decade or two with no tourists at all, foreigners pulling out investments and so. Then they might would have learned. The westerner can always hop around the world exploring new destinations.

The beaches will still be here when they all had figured it out.

The cheap charlies would have <deleted> ball here if they stayed though. The price level on all kind of services would drop to a minimum

Our new name should be,

The ambassador Tourist or said in another way, a very high ranking tourist.

[chucky66]

Something surprises me : why people don't call immigration services, locally and abroad ? Or send e-mail, or fax ?

Why we don't go overthere, to ask what are the details of the new regulations ?

If hundreds or thousands of people try to get bit of information. By doing a synthesis we would have a pretty clear view of the situation...

Or we would expose the fact that neither the thai officials know what to do exactly...

It would be a good test.

Ive already tried contacting the Thai consuls in the UK and I intially got an e-mail saying they were unsure of the new regulations. I then enquired further as to how it may affect my travel plans and I have not recieved a reply since. A note has gone up on the front page of one of the consuls website here in the UK which states:

------------------------------------------

Visa Changes 01 October 2006

As a result of the rumours about visa changes coming into effect on 01 October 2006 our communication systems are becoming quickly blocked with enquiries and we are struggling to answer them quickly enough.

Please click below to read a PDF file detailing our understanding of the visa issue. This is based on historical official information and on what we have heard from various sources.

We must make it quite clear that no official statement has yet been issued by the Thai Immigration Bureau and so it may be necessary for us to revise our advice to travellers at a later date.

Click Here <----Basically doesn't say anything when you click.

-----------------------------------------

Im surprised that the Thais dont consider that they are treated equally once in the UK. I work with many Thai people here in the UK who are free to come and go as they please, buy property, educate themselves and use all of our welfare benefits without prejudice!!

As for student backpackers spending less money...thats quite a sweeping statement to make. There are backpackers which visit Thailand (student or otherwise) with a very large expendible income £1000-2000 per month according to www.gapyear.com. Shouldn't all tourists be treated equally without distinction. Just because some student backpackers may have less money to spend does that mean that they dont matter?

How exactly do you prove that you are a backpacker visiting the country for 6 months for purely tourist purposes and not illegally working for example? Amazing how desperate the thais were for touristss just after the tsunami and now they seem to want to half their intake almost overnight? My travel plans are going to change for the nxt year. This confusion over immigration frankly gives me a headache and I would rather take my money elsewhere where they treat westerners as an equal and want my money without me having to jump through hoops.

Edited September 17, 2006 by chucky66

[drummer]

a letter to The Nation from a Thai person.

-------------------------------------------------------------

New visa rules in line with regulations elsewhere

Although I can understand LS Bergman's exasperation with potential changes to Thai visa rules ("Blanket visa regulations cause unnecessary difficulties", Letters, September 13, 2006), the writer utterly fails to understand why the rules might have been put in place. Clearly Thailand has no wish to bar foreigners from entering the Kingdom. After all most nationalities can enjoy 30 to 90 days of a visa-free, no-questions-asked visit. Instead, the new measures are aimed at preventing long-term stay of poor and/or unemployed foreigners in Thailand.

It is a bit infuriating isn't it to be judged exclusively by your economic status? That is unacceptable. But then Thailand is simply following great examples set by Western countries which do not hesitate to judge foreigners based on their nationalities and economic well-being and yet have the audacity to preach human rights. Maybe Thailand would do away with these rules once Thai citizens are treated on a reciprocal basis.

Meanwhile, with our limited natural resources, we unfortunately can only allow economically well off and productive foreigners to remain in the country.

P Ittigusumaln

Bangkok

-----------------------------------------

obviously and educated and erudite person.

...

...

...

I may have spent 3-5 million baht on a land/house, but certainly not now.

When I was a scumbag low-life english teacher (even though I am a fully qualified and registered teacher in Australia), I earned a humble 30-40K a month and every baht was spent back into the Thai economy.

agree , folks like me will have a minmal effect, but combined with the above it will be significant.

There are a couple of points I'd like to bring up that this very well educated person seems to have missed.

1[/i] ALL visa runners, even poor ones, typically import money from abroad into Thailand.

Most visa runners dip into their savings from time to time, credit cards, get infusions of cash from their folks, et cetera from time to time, and do not rely entirely, if at all, on income in Thailand.

By eliminating these 'poor' people from Thailand, you also reduce the amount of foreign capital flowing freely into Thailand, with no return from Thailand. An economic Golden (and tipsy) Goose ...

In addition, even considering those that are working, ESPECIALLY the poorer ones, they spend all their money in Thailand (and then some) so that the money merely goes on to employ other Thais - for example apartment managers, taxi drvers, Chang Beer employees, and a great many women from Issan (who then contribute to all manner of vetenarians for their sick buffalos!)

In another thread I calculated, based on the tourist arrival numbers, the percentage of land arrivals and region, etc, that the number of European visa runners is around 250,000. Then add in Japanese, Chinese, Philipino, Indian, Russian, etc.

There are a lot of us here.

UNFORTUNATELY, the above author isn't concerning himself with this kind of impact. Rather he assumes that they are poor and that the dynamics concerning immigration that exist in the West - such as social welfare, getting higher paying jobs and shipping the money OUT of the country, etc etc, apply here. Really, nothing could be farther than the truth. Only those with fully legal jobs, and very good ones at that, would be in a position to ship money they earn in Thailand back home to help Ma afford that surgery she's been wanting.

Rather, he is concerning himself more with the loss of face that Thailand is suffering with the selectiveness of the West and America. he is speaking from an emotional point of view that is very hard to reason with. Many in th US use the same kind of logic ... immigrants, even illegal immigrants, help power the US economy... just a matter of dispassionate thinking

[mark lamai]

nice rant F1

but you are not allowed to say things like that, naughty boy!!

i'm just looking around the room and out the window....

mmmmm...

samsung,sharp,isuzu,honda,apple,microsoft,canon,nikon,yamaha,johnnie walker....

sang som, furniture ummmmmm.................

[bendix]

This whole situation raises a lot of other questions related to foreigners in Thailand. The country`s tourism to be 17 % of the GDP. This is a huge slice of the GDP and shows this country to be totally depending on tourists and foreigners. Then comes all foreign investments in every form.

I would say the Thai people should stay in a constant "Wai" for us foreigners. They should be so thankful for all the trillions of baht that have been pumped in here and if it wasnt for this I would like to see where Thailand would have been today.

We all being here contribute a lot to this country`s wealth wether it would be

sticking a couple of thousand baht into the pocket of an old senile family member in Isaan,

making a manufacturer plant with thousands of employees,

screwing girls down a Nana,

sending beautiful photos we all take with our digiatal cameras to friends and family all over the world,

talking about this country,

The fact is that even most criminals contribute to this wealth by living here.

Thailand has never lost a single satang on criminals living here. They might missed out on some taxes paid but have a look at Bandidos case, nobody wants them here.. but they did bring into Thailand some 3 billion baht. These money is now spread all over this green carpet.

You see.. we all contribute in a way or another.

It is limited how much money you can make on exporting rice around the world,

and like one said in a thread on this forum some time ago, "what have the thai people ever done for the worlds community"... its about nothing..nada..zero!

The truth is that the average thai doesnt have a clue about what social economy is and what it takes to build a nations economy.

If all thais soon dont pull themselves toghether and stand up to get this country back on track things could be bad here.

Sometimes I think " Why the heck do they let all this crap happen here, they must be total stupid these people!

Honestly, they should have a decade or two with no tourists at all, foreigners pulling out investments and so. Then they might would have learned. The westerner can always hop around the world exploring new destinations.

The beaches will still be here when they all had figured it out.

The cheap charlies would have &lt;deleted&gt; ball here if they stayed though. The price level on all kind of services would drop to a minimum

Our new name should be,

The ambassador Tourist or said in another way, a very high ranking tourist.

And the prize for the most patronising and shameful post on Thaivisa goes to . . . . . .

Yes, Visarunner . . those little brown fellas should be grateful for all we do for them, shouldnt they? They can't survive alone.

That post is a disgrace, and the attitude expressed in it is symptomatic of the farang arrogance perhaps the Thais want to get rid of.

And rightly so, in my opinon.

[Colonel_Mustard]

And I suppose, F1 Visa Runner, you go round shaking hands and thanking all the tourists and foreigners that have pumped huge quantities of money into your country's economy do you?

Thailand is far from perfect and might not in your eyes have contributed much good to the world but it also hasn't contributed as much bad to the world as many of our home countries.

[F1 Visa Runner]

And the prize for the most patronising and shameful post on Thaivisa goes to . . . . . .

Yes, Visarunner . . those little brown fellas should be grateful for all we do for them, shouldnt they? They can't survive alone.

That post is a disgrace, and the attitude expressed in it is symptomatic of the farang arrogance perhaps the Thais want to get rid of.

And rightly so, in my opinon.

As far as I know those little brown fellas are of yellow colour. This colour colour blindnes of yours together with your previous posts and it it is obvious that you entered Thailand with something shading off from the sun too much.

Maybe you should have entered this kingdom with some RayBans`s instead of a pair of welder`s goggles on.

You are really fumbling around in the dark ain`t you..

Take em off some now and then and have a look around.

[taxexile]

That post is a disgrace, and the attitude expressed in it is symptomatic of the farang arrogance perhaps the Thais want to get rid of.

absolutely correct.

f1visarunner is just embarrasing himself by exposing his ignorance of thailand and the way things operate here.

he sounds like some pompous jobsworth marginally elected as a labour councillor in some rundown uk borough.

[F1 Visa Runner]

And I suppose, F1 Visa Runner, you go round shaking hands and thanking all the tourists and foreigners that have pumped huge quantities of money into your country's economy do you?

Thailand is far from perfect and might not in your eyes have contributed much good to the world but it also hasn't contributed as much bad to the world as many of our home countries.

No I do not because there aint to many to shake hands with. You see where I come from we dig up the money from underneith and its called The Black Gold.

My origin country is quite lucky to be in this situation right now and we are super rich! It could as pr today be equaled to all Thailands beautiful beaches and what that contributes to the country through tourists.

My country was not rich some 60 years ago as we were quite a poor nation.

Our oil.. pretty much the same as the tourist industry, foreign investments and foreigners have done to Thailand.. Just a different way around to wealth.

Countries can not bungle too much with the source of where money comes from. Goes for all nations of the world.

Edited September 17, 2006 by F1 Visa Runner

[Estrada]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

Thailand was officially taken off the list of Countries considered as "Third World" , a few years ago. I have worked as an Developing Country Expert for the EU, as well as with World Bank and Asian Development Bank. Wikipedia is incorrect, possibly outdated information.

From my own personal perception I left the UK for Thailand in 1994, having considered the UK to have become a "Third World Country", by perception, whilst Thailand now is certainly a developing Country.

[JimsKnight]

That post is a disgrace, and the attitude expressed in it is symptomatic of the farang arrogance perhaps the Thais want to get rid of.

absolutely correct.

f1visarunner is just embarrasing himself by exposing his ignorance of thailand and the way things operate here.

he sounds like some pompous jobsworth marginally elected as a labour councillor in some rundown uk borough.

Whoosh! Calm down exileman. Labour councillor indeed! LOL

F1 Visa Run man may have ruffled a few goose feathers methinks, but yes he is over-arrogant and bullish at that!

However his verbage on money being brought into by crims, sugar daddy movers etc X Y and Z is indeed fearsome and spot on!

Thailand would do well to at least re-examine its intricate and often byzantine ways of dealing with the fickle falang!

Edited September 17, 2006 by JimsKnight

[hotgeekus]

I know, one MORE question!!! All this 'new' stuff is confusing but can someone offer me a suggestion:

I need to get an entry visa for my girlfriend to enter Thailand, first/second week of Thailand. I am looking for a VISA for as long as she can stay.

FACTS:

-I am USA citizen, have job in Bangkok, work permit, expat contract, company pays my Thai taxes, single contract.

-Girlfriend just become USA citizen, will be joining me in Bangkok in about 2/3 weeks. Will be going to Thai consulate in USA (Chicago) to obtain VISA. She has not been to Thailand before.

What VISA should she apply for, and how long can she stay. Would it help if my employer signs a letter that I will be supporting her, and I take full financial (etc.) responsibility for her?

Any help would be appreciated, as with all these new laws/rules, I would like to get the right one where she could permanent with me. Please note that I do not want to get married and if I would, my company would cover the visa. I work for a very well known (respected) company in Bangkok, and she currently works for a very well known Asian company in USA but would not work unless she finds a job (ie gets work permit) in Thailand. I have a good job and make enough money that supporting her would not be a problem.

Please help with suggestions, as I really just get more and more confused with all the discussions and changes. I just don't want her to get stuck and have to leave the country on short notice because we didn't know about something. For me it is easy, I just give my passport to govt relations office every 90 days and it is taken care of.

thank you in advance for your recomendations.

[John K]

OK here is what I see at this particular moment.

First is to the best of my knowledge this still has not been in the Thai media. The longer the delay in getting there the more it suggests that this is politically motivated and has little or nothing to do with the reasons cited by the Thais. Why has it only appeared in English media? For a country that is a tourist destination, news of tourist visa changes should be front page on all Thai papers.

Very simply it is time to be proactive and not reactive. Don’t think so much about yourself, but think about the Thais that you see and know. Get the word out to the working Thais as they are the ones who will suffer when the people leave Thailand. Help them connect the dots if they don’t see it. If they know they will make some noise. It is that noise and possibly only that will end this. So push away from the keyboard and spend some time talking to the Thais.

The key point I will mention again for the people who may have missed it. The people who will be effected by this have been integrated into the Thai economy. They don’t stay in hotels but they stay in apartments. Hundreds of not more of non tourist related Thai businesses have started up to support them and have them as customers. The revenue generated by them is significant. It would have about the same impact as Thailand ejecting all Muslims or any other group that is part of the economy.

I would be very curious to hear what the Thai news editor has to say about this and why it was not in the news.

One doesn't quite know whether to laugh or cry at a post like this.Nevertheless it's just an extreme example of the self deluded long stay/permanent visa runner farang that thinks any serious body of Thai opinion regards their presence as a valuable asset.Fact is nobody really cares about their current predicament.Relax guys:it's probably not going to be as stringent as some of you think and in any case we have traded on the Thais generous immigration regime for a long time.But who can blame the Thais for tightening up and getting tough with foreigners who abuse the system.

Let me clarify one thing here, I have a non B visa so this at the moment does not effect me except for fewer clients in the future. This is simply no different than the Thais getting fewer customers or tenants. My only motive at the moment is to add clarity.

Also I am still not fully convinced that this is real, however I am giving input on the assumption it is real. I am at a loss at the moment to think of another news story of this magnitude that did not end up in both Thai and English news. One person told me this evening that the order has not been signed yet but 60-20-20 on that. This is certainly the talk of the town for visa holders as I over heard 3 separate conversations today, one on the skytrain and two in a restaurant.

We talk about the Thais needing to get up to Isaan to let the locals know about the true Thaksin to unseat him in the next elections. This now becomes our opportunity to let the Thais know about this. Most certainly this will have an effect on the elections.

At the moment the only political gain from this that I can see is Thaksin putting an end to this madness and making himself look like a savior of the Thais in Bangkok. He will do his best not to look like he did not set it up just like the car bomb. In actuality all it will take is one phone call and two words “Park it!”

[Colonel_Mustard]

At the moment the only political gain from this that I can see is Thaksin putting an end to this madness and making himself look like a savior of the Thais in Bangkok.

Why would Thaksin care about the Thais in Bangkok as they wouldn't vote for him anyway?

You keep going on about empty appartments as foreigners leave Thailand and how the Thai landlords will suffer as they can't find tenants. Have you considered that maybe if so many foreigners leave (and I doubt that huge numbers will) the appartment prices would have to drop which would be to the advantage of many Thais in Bangkok. As with most changes, some would lose while others gain.

[Maestro]

-Girlfriend just become USA citizen, will be joining me in Bangkok in about 2/3 weeks.

What nationality did she have previously?

---------------

Maestro

[hotgeekus]

Just my two cents, and trust me, I am the new one here.....

Lots of talk about the Thai 'World' crashing with the changes... ie, apartments empty, Siam Paragon closing, all Thai's would become blind because they have no Farang to teach them English, etc....

Thailand was here long before we came, it will be here long after we (ok, I) go.

No matter how tough they make it here, VISA wise, it is still easier to live/work/survive in Thailand than any of the other countries I have lived in (USA, + 2 in Europe).

Fact is, This is Thailand, they don't and should not care what we think. Use this (maybe simple and stupid example):

You go to Patpong get right off the BTS, go buy a (fake) DVD for 100 baht. You know that in the western world it would cost ten times that, and have a quality that backs up the cost (yayaya, of course they are getting rich in Hollywood, screwing us here and there, blablabla). But, when you get home and the movie quality sux, and there are people getting up in front of the camera, you get pissed off go back and demand your money back. WHY IS IT THAT YOU KNOW YOU ARE BUYING A FAKE, BUT STILL EXPECT IT TO BE BETTER THAN THE REAL ONE? ONLY BECAUSE YOU CAN!

Trust me, this is not politics, these are foreigners who forget who's country they live in. I am a foreigner living in Thailand, and thankful that I am able to live here. I have a great job, great benefits and high(er) standard of living better/equal to home.

Sorry, but that is the truth.

[jdinasia]

Just my two cents, and trust me, I am the new one here.....

Lots of talk about the Thai 'World' crashing with the changes... ie, apartments empty, Siam Paragon closing, all Thai's would become blind because they have no Farang to teach them English, etc....

Thailand was here long before we came, it will be here long after we (ok, I) go.

No matter how tough they make it here, VISA wise, it is still easier to live/work/survive in Thailand than any of the other countries I have lived in (USA, + 2 in Europe).

Fact is, This is Thailand, they don't and should not care what we think. Use this (maybe simple and stupid example):

You go to Patpong get right off the BTS, go buy a (fake) DVD for 100 baht. You know that in the western world it would cost ten times that, and have a quality that backs up the cost (yayaya, of course they are getting rich in Hollywood, screwing us here and there, blablabla). But, when you get home and the movie quality sux, and there are people getting up in front of the camera, you get pissed off go back and demand your money back. WHY IS IT THAT YOU KNOW YOU ARE BUYING A FAKE, BUT STILL EXPECT IT TO BE BETTER THAN THE REAL ONE? ONLY BECAUSE YOU CAN!

Trust me, this is not politics, these are foreigners who forget who's country they live in. I am a foreigner living in Thailand, and thankful that I am able to live here. I have a great job, great benefits and high(er) standard of living better/equal to home.

Sorry, but that is the truth.

You are right ... You ARE new

[hotgeekus]

You are right ... You ARE new

I know, huh!!! Funny if I read it back. I already argue over the 5 baht from the tuktuk driver.

[Maestro]

...

Sorry, but that is the truth.

You are wise beyond your years

---------------

Maestro

[blam]

Oh boy am I slow or what? I'm too old, otherwise I would have picked up on this one myself. Batteries must be getting low again, guess I'm too stressed out. Bad trigger finger, bad.

So today I've been discussing the visa situation with many local Thai friends and acquaintances. Sunday is a great day here in Phuket, lots of Thai families go to the beach for sum tum gai yang. The Thais all seem to know about the fatalistic game of political hopscotch that is being played out right now; and, they all seem to have a VERY negative opinion of the people manifesting the changes in the visa/condo laws, (IT IS NOT THE FARANG'S FAULT.) One girl said, and I quote (this is classic) "How could this possibly be about farangs not paying their taxes? Prime Minister Thaksin didn't pay his two thousand million baht in taxes! HOW COULD IT BE ABOUT TAXES?"

Is that rich or what?

Again, I reiterate, this entire scenario is predicated on the fact that the national election is only 5 weeks, or so, away. In the 1989 elections, farangs were told to lay low... and we did.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Edited September 17, 2006 by blam

[angusandtj]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

Thailand was officially taken off the list of Countries considered as "Third World" , a few years ago. I have worked as an Developing Country Expert for the EU, as well as with World Bank and Asian Development Bank. Wikipedia is incorrect, possibly outdated information.

From my own personal perception I left the UK for Thailand in 1994, having considered the UK to have become a "Third World Country", by perception, whilst Thailand now is certainly a developing Country.

Everyone please stop trying to correct me. I'm sorry if I offended any of your third world lists. The UN fealt that the term was derogatory and they changed it to "developing country" so as not to offend anyone. It was never their ranking that I was refering to anyway. Remember, a stewardess is now a flight attendant because men worked in that field also. Now a garbageman is a waste disposal engineer and I guess to be polically correct we should stop calling some of these beauties here by the term bargirl and use a less offensive term like "penis technician".

Anyway, I was referring to Thailand as third world by the description of third world countries. Here's it is:

Third World, the technologically less advanced, or developing, nations of Asia, Africa, and Latin America, generally characterized as poor, having economies distorted by their dependence on the export of primary products to the developed countries in return for finished products. These nations also tend to have high rates of illiteracy, disease, and population growth and unstable governments. The term Third World was originally intended to distinguish the nonaligned nations that gained independence from colonial rule beginning after World War II from the Western nations and from those that formed the former Eastern bloc, and sometimes more specifically from the United States and from the former Soviet Union (the first and second worlds, respectively). For the most part the term has not included China. Politically, the Third World emerged at the Bandung Conference (1955), which resulted in the establishment of the Nonaligned Movement. Numerically, the Third World dominates the United Nations, but the group is diverse culturally and increasingly economically, and its unity is only hypothetical.

That's Thailand in a nutshell. The term may be politically incorrect, but so am I. Now can we please drop this and get back to the point.

All of Thailand may potentially be effected by this change, not just the farangs //bar talk removed//

Edited September 17, 2006 by lopburi3

[enuff said]

.

Good posts hotgeekus, Col. Mustard, ramidin, bendix, and others who realize that true tourists are much better for a country than a bunch of people who are just a zigzag away from being refused entry.

We are ALL guests and visitors. Don't blame Thailand for enforcing ANY policy they care to invoke. You won't find any Thais in your country telling people how to run things.

Why hasn't this policy change been in the Thai press? Because 90% of Thai people couldn't care less. It's a non-item. They have their King, their culture, their family, their religion, and many other domestic problems, such as the violence in the South to be concerned with.

The effect on the actual tourist industry will be very VERY small.

I, for one, think things will improve for regular tourists. Mainly prices will go down after a period I would say. I know... I'm a moron or a Russian (let's go chug a bottle of vodka 'ay bendix ol' commerad?).

Vast stretches of Thailand may remain undeveloped and more pleasing to the true tourist who comes here for Thai culture, authentic food, and rustic beauty. Not high-rise condos jammed willy-nilly in every available space.

Just look at what has happened in Pattaya, Phuket, Samui in the last 20 years. They are zoos now with foreigners in the cages, that's all. Surely tourists don't come halfway around the world to see that.

As for the new rules. Easy.

Don't try to live here and pretend to be a tourist. Get the proper visa. If you can't get the proper visa, then Thailand doesn't want you living here. Just like any other country. Nothing to do with the current buzz word "xenophobia". Come back and visit anytime and you will be welcomed.

You have a condo? Lotsa people have condos in foreign countries all over the world for vacations and only go to them a month or so out of the year. They aren't complaining. err, maybe they are complaining but they still own them and go to them. You are surely welcome to visit your Thai condo anytime as long as you spend most of your time living elsewhere.

The main reason I am posting this is because I am sure this forum is monitored by Thai Immigration officials and certainly the English press here and elsewhere. So many other posts degrade and belittle and disrespect this lovely country. Including the guy half a dozen pages back who referred to it as "Land Of Sh*t". Wouldn't that make you angry if you were a Thai?

Others call Thai people stupid or at least naive. Others imply that bribery of officials will be the order of the day. Thais are lazy, money grubbing, etc. etc. This kind of thing is very unfair to the 50 million other Thai people you haven't met personally.

Please guys... Just concern yourself with what kind of visa you should try for and how to go about getting it. Face the truth. Act like a responsible person who values his time here and don't run down Thailand.

'nuff said

[angusandtj]

.

Good posts hotgeekus, Col. Mustard, ramidin, bendix, and others who realize that true tourists are much better for a country than a bunch of people who are just a zigzag away from being refused entry.

We are ALL guests and visitors. Don't blame Thailand for enforcing ANY policy they care to invoke. You won't find any Thais in your country telling people how to run things.

Why hasn't this policy change been in the Thai press? Because 90% of Thai people couldn't care less. It's a non-item. They have their King, their culture, their family, their religion, and many other domestic problems, such as the violence in the South to be concerned with.

The effect on the actual tourist industry will be very VERY small.

I, for one, think things will improve for regular tourists. Mainly prices will go down after a period I would say. I know... I'm a moron or a Russian (let's go chug a bottle of vodka 'ay bendix ol' commerad?).

Vast stretches of Thailand may remain undeveloped and more pleasing to the true tourist who comes here for Thai culture, authentic food, and rustic beauty. Not high-rise condos jammed willy-nilly in every available space.

Just look at what has happened in Pattaya, Phuket, Samui in the last 20 years. They are zoos now with foreigners in the cages, that's all. Surely tourists don't come halfway around the world to see that.

As for the new rules. Easy.

Don't try to live here and pretend to be a tourist. Get the proper visa. If you can't get the proper visa, then Thailand doesn't want you living here. Just like any other country. Nothing to do with the current buzz word "xenophobia". Come back and visit anytime and you will be welcomed.

You have a condo? Lotsa people have condos in foreign countries all over the world for vacations and only go to them a month or so out of the year. They aren't complaining. err, maybe they are complaining but they still own them and go to them. You are surely welcome to visit your Thai condo anytime as long as you spend most of your time living elsewhere.

The main reason I am posting this is because I am sure this forum is monitored by Thai Immigration officials and certainly the English press here and elsewhere. So many other posts degrade and belittle and disrespect this lovely country. Including the guy half a dozen pages back who referred to it as "Land Of Sh*t". Wouldn't that make you angry if you were a Thai?

Others call Thai people stupid or at least naive. Others imply that bribery of officials will be the order of the day. Thais are lazy, money grubbing, etc. etc. This kind of thing is very unfair to the 50 million other Thai people you haven't met personally.

Please guys... Just concern yourself with what kind of visa you should try for and how to go about getting it. Face the truth. Act like a responsible person who values his time here and don't run down Thailand.

'nuff said

Do you actually know any average Thais? I can't imagine that you do. Direspet this lovely country? &lt;deleted&gt;? Take off your blinders. There is alot of good here or we wouldn't be here. There is beauty also but to call this a lovely country... I know you must be joking to get a rise out of people because I can't imagine a fellow human being being so ignorant as to not recognize that this country has serious problems. As far as name calling, I'm quite sure some Thais have said far worse to you albeit behind your back and in another language. Do you honestly believe that they like you and appreciate you and not your money? Get to know some average Thais and listen to them(don't just talk at them)and actually ask the dirty little questions that you must be afraid to ask. Maybe it would open your eyes. They will admit their problems and fears if they trust you. Things are not all hunky dory for them. They know far better than you just how lovely their country is. Open your eyes.

Edited September 17, 2006 by angusandtj

[John K]

, (IT IS NOT THE FARANG'S FAULT.) One girl said, and I quote (this is classic) "How could this possibly be about farangs not paying their taxes? Prime Minister Thaksin didn't pay his two thousand million baht in taxes! HOW COULD IT BE ABOUT TAXES?"

very clasic

For the new people. The level of integration in the Thai economy is much higher now than in years past. It has become a symbiotic relationship. Remove the non Thai residence and the host will suffer. When was the last time you saw Thais using a laundry service the way expats do?

Edited September 17, 2006 by John K

[keekwai]

Something surprises me : why people don't call immigration services, locally and abroad ? Or send e-mail, or fax ?

Why we don't go overthere, to ask what are the details of the new regulations ?

If hundreds or thousands of people try to get bit of information. By doing a synthesis we would have a pretty clear view of the situation...

Or we would expose the fact that neither the thai officials know what to do exactly...

It would be a good test.

Done it. Sick of saying it. ....... Can we have an animated smiley that bangs it's head against the wall please?

[John K]

[angusandtj]

Glad to know there are other people that are aware of the seriousness of this money issue. You have been dead on in every one of your posts. This absence will be heavily fealt now that this revenue is counted on.

What is this image?

[enuff said]

.

My eyes are open. You have no idea who I am or where I live so you are only guessing. My experiences are certainly different from yours, that's all you have proven.

As for facts: the UN still has a list of countries and Thailand is a category 2 DEVELOPING country.

Not a category 3 "nations that show patchy development" such as many in

Africa, Central America, Caribbean, and much of Southeast Asia EXCEPT Thailand, as you have implied.

Nor is it a category 4 nation such as Haiti, Sudan, Somalia, Burma.

Thailand does not have high rates of illiteracy or disease. And, judging from your use of English, you could use a little refresher course yourself.

As for technology, Thailand has a mobile phone system that is the best in the region. I have ADSL at my house and I live almost a 100km from Bangkok. The hospital has an MRI machine and has just added a cardiac care wing.

You are totally wrong about this.

'nuff said

~