Greek prime minister puts bailout deal to referendum July 5

[Lite Beer]

Greek prime minister puts bailout deal to referendum July 5
NICHOLAS PAPHITIS, Associated Press

ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Greece's prime minister on Friday called a surprise referendum for July 5 on the financially troubled country's fraught bailout talks with international creditors, and government officials are calling on the nation to reject the proposed deal.

Alexis Tsipras announced the referendum in a televised address to the Greek people early Saturday, following an emergency meeting of his cabinet.

"The Greek government has been asked to accept a proposal that places new unbearable burdens on the Greek people," Tsipras said. "Right now, we bear an historic responsibility concerning ... the future of our country. And this responsibility obliges us to answer (bailout creditors') ultimatum based on the sovereign will of the Greek people."

The move radically raises the stakes in Greece's confrontation with bailout creditors, whom Tsipras accused of demanding new pension cuts, sales tax hikes and labor market reforms.

Tsipras said an emergency session of Parliament later Saturday would be called to ratify the decision.

"The question will be acceptance or rejection of (the bailout creditors') proposal" for a new deal, Tsipras said. His radical left-led government had already said it rejected the latest proposals from representatives of the European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund.

Later on Saturday, finance ministers from the 19-member eurozone are due to meet in Brussels for what had been billed as a last attempt to reach a mutually agreed deal. If there is no agreement, Greece will very soon run out of cash, default on its debt mountain and possibly crash out of the Eurozone and adopting a weak national currency of its own — a move widely seen as a financial disaster in a country that depends on imports for most key goods.

Development Minister Panayiotis Lafazanis urged Greeks after the late-night cabinet meeting to vote against the creditors' proposal.

"The answer of the Greek people will be a resounding no," he told reporters. "All Greeks will vote no."

State Minister Nikos Pappas echoed the sentiment. "Our people will vote no, you will see," he said. "This is a very good night ... the Greek people will soon be able to decide" for themselves.

The surprise announcement follows days of frantic negotiations with the EC, ECB and IMF in Brussels.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-06-27

[Credo]

Democracy meets economics.

[samuibeachcomber]

This guy is losing a lot of credibility.He got elected to water down austerity and he has n't had a lot of success as the EU hang tough.The trouble is the greek people want their cake and eat it too,that is stay in the euro and have less austerity,they are just like children.They need to grow up,whether they stay or leave,pensions have to be reduced and the retirement age has to increase along with taxes.

Leaders are elected to lead and take the hard but right decisions,i think he's passing the buck!

[godden]

Greece needs to leave the EU and the Euro or they will suffer more agony for generations to come.

[BigBadGeordie]

Greece needs to leave the EU and the Euro or they will suffer more agony for generations to come.

Irrespective of whether they leave or not the agony will still come.

[daveAustin]

Greece clearly needs to grow up and sort itself out, but I kind of like its stance toward the stuffy, smarmy EU.

[bangkoklasse]

EU will be a lot better without without the lazy guvernment and lazy people from Greece. Most people from Greece don't work. And the ones that work like to have a full pension when they are 5-10 years younger than people from other European countries................

Edited June 27, 2015 by bangkoklasse

[shamrock09]

EU will be a lot better without without the lazy guvernment and lazy people from Greece. Most people from Greece don't work. And the ones that work like to have a full pension when they are 5-10 years younger than people from other European countries................

I see a lot of opinion here, but can you support your argument with facts.

[bangon04]

Seems to me that the Greeks are playing poker..... they are counting on the fact that the EU and the banks will fold at the last moment - on the grounds that Greece is a developed country and part of the credibility of the EU, and therefore too big to fail.

We will see who blinks, but I have little confidence in the EU to follow through on anything important.

The Greeks appear to be beyond help, and even if they win this pot with their bluff, they will need to keep playing for there is no end in sight to their economic mismanagement.

[Anthony5]

"The answer of the Greek people will be a resounding no," he told reporters. "All Greeks will vote no."

I hope he's right, I always fancied a holiday home in Greece, and soon will be the right time to make a purchase.

[smedly]

Democracy meets economics.

He is passing the responsibility away from himself because he made popular election promises he now knows were impossible to keep, maybe Russia will bail them out or China

This vote is like calling on a trade union to vote on a 30% pay cut

Time to boot them out and stop this circus so the people can see the real (deleted) they are in as their banks collapse - pensions and wages cannot be paid and the whole country goes down the (deleted)

[h90]

This guy is losing a lot of credibility.He got elected to water down austerity and he has n't had a lot of success as the EU hang tough.The trouble is the greek people want their cake and eat it too,that is stay in the euro and have less austerity,they are just like children.They need to grow up,whether they stay or leave,pensions have to be reduced and the retirement age has to increase along with taxes.

Leaders are elected to lead and take the hard but right decisions,i think he's passing the buck!

yes, but also note that only 10 % of the EU money went to the Greek people. 90% went to the banks. So the EU didn't give money for Greek they took over the debt from the banks.

The Greek budget, if they wouldn't have to pay back the credit rates would be balanced at the moment.

On the last plans from Greek IWF wanted lower taxes for big companies and rich and cutting for the poorest people.

So while Greek is still not understanding that they must save more money the others act only in the interest of the banks and huge international companies. It is not complete black and white.

(I would have never thought that there will be a moment I defend a left wing government....)

[Anthony5]

Democracy meets economics.

He is passing the responsibility away from himself because he made popular election promises he now knows were impossible to keep, maybe Russia will bail them out or China

This vote is like calling on a trade union to vote on a 30% pay cut

Time to boot them out and stop this circus so the people can see the real (deleted) they are in as their banks collapse - pensions and wages cannot be paid and the whole country goes down the (deleted)

You think Russia or China would be so dumb to invite a freeloader ?

[bangon04]

Democracy meets economics.

He is passing the responsibility away from himself because he made popular election promises he now knows were impossible to keep, maybe Russia will bail them out or China

This vote is like calling on a trade union to vote on a 30% pay cut

Time to boot them out and stop this circus so the people can see the real (deleted) they are in as their banks collapse - pensions and wages cannot be paid and the whole country goes down the (deleted)

You think Russia or China would be so dumb to invite a freeloader ?

Russia just might.... Putin is just mad keen enough to piss off the EU, he might invest some free gas or other benefits in return for access to the Greek banks - to replace the losses in the Cypriot banks.

and just imagine if Greece decided to ease restrictions on Russians applying for a Schengen Visa in return for a bank bailout?

Edited June 27, 2015 by bangon04

[smedly]

Democracy meets economics.

He is passing the responsibility away from himself because he made popular election promises he now knows were impossible to keep, maybe Russia will bail them out or China

This vote is like calling on a trade union to vote on a 30% pay cut

Time to boot them out and stop this circus so the people can see the real (deleted) they are in as their banks collapse - pensions and wages cannot be paid and the whole country goes down the (deleted)

You think Russia or China would be so dumb to invite a freeloader ?

Russia would like nothing better than to get involved in EU affairs, they are being crippled right now by EU and US sanctions over their involvement in Ukraine, for them it would be an interesting and dangerous card to play

[Anthony5]

Democracy meets economics.

He is passing the responsibility away from himself because he made popular election promises he now knows were impossible to keep, maybe Russia will bail them out or China

This vote is like calling on a trade union to vote on a 30% pay cut

Time to boot them out and stop this circus so the people can see the real (deleted) they are in as their banks collapse - pensions and wages cannot be paid and the whole country goes down the (deleted)

You think Russia or China would be so dumb to invite a freeloader ?

Russia just might.... Putin is just mad keen enough to piss off the EU, he might invest some free gas or other benefits in return for access to the Greek banks - to replace the losses in the Cypriot banks.

and just imagine if Greece decided to ease restrictions on Russians applying for a Schengen Visa in return for a bank bailout?

Access to bankrupt banks, sorry I must be missing something.

And when Greece is out of the EU, it may probably be also kicked out of schengen, not?

[smedly]

This guy is losing a lot of credibility.He got elected to water down austerity and he has n't had a lot of success as the EU hang tough.The trouble is the greek people want their cake and eat it too,that is stay in the euro and have less austerity,they are just like children.They need to grow up,whether they stay or leave,pensions have to be reduced and the retirement age has to increase along with taxes.

Leaders are elected to lead and take the hard but right decisions,i think he's passing the buck!

yes, but also note that only 10 % of the EU money went to the Greek people. 90% went to the banks. So the EU didn't give money for Greek they took over the debt from the banks.

The Greek budget, if they wouldn't have to pay back the credit rates would be balanced at the moment.

On the last plans from Greek IWF wanted lower taxes for big companies and rich and cutting for the poorest people.

So while Greek is still not understanding that they must save more money the others act only in the interest of the banks and huge international companies. It is not complete black and white.

(I would have never thought that there will be a moment I defend a left wing government....)

they might be supporting the banks but who borrowed the money - the government and therefore the people

The problem is that Greece wants the money but are continuing to spend it carelessly, it would be like you or me going to a bank for a loan to keep payments up on a mortgage then extending the terms from 25 years to 35 years so I could afford the payments then going out and buying an expensive car and eating in the most expensive restaurants still living the high life but unable to pay my electric bill

[Scott]

Post in all caps has been removed along with a reply.

[SheungWan]

For some unknown reason Tsipras did not call on the rest of Europe to vote on whether they wanted to give Greece the money.

[bangon04]

He is passing the responsibility away from himself because he made popular election promises he now knows were impossible to keep, maybe Russia will bail them out or China

This vote is like calling on a trade union to vote on a 30% pay cut

Time to boot them out and stop this circus so the people can see the real (deleted) they are in as their banks collapse - pensions and wages cannot be paid and the whole country goes down the (deleted)

You think Russia or China would be so dumb to invite a freeloader ?

Russia just might.... Putin is just mad keen enough to piss off the EU, he might invest some free gas or other benefits in return for access to the Greek banks - to replace the losses in the Cypriot banks.

and just imagine if Greece decided to ease restrictions on Russians applying for a Schengen Visa in return for a bank bailout?

Access to bankrupt banks, sorry I must be missing something.

And when Greece is out of the EU, it may probably be also kicked out of schengen, not?

Maybe you missed the major scandal when the Russians took a haircut on their overseas bank accounts in Cyprus a few years ago. The oligarchs need a safe place to store their hard currency out of the Russian banking system. They were more or less keeping the Cyprus banks in business at the time.

Maybe you also missed the bit where Greece is likely to leave the Eurozone, but nobody has (seriously) suggested they will leave the EU.

Edited June 27, 2015 by bangon04

[h90]

This guy is losing a lot of credibility.He got elected to water down austerity and he has n't had a lot of success as the EU hang tough.The trouble is the greek people want their cake and eat it too,that is stay in the euro and have less austerity,they are just like children.They need to grow up,whether they stay or leave,pensions have to be reduced and the retirement age has to increase along with taxes.

Leaders are elected to lead and take the hard but right decisions,i think he's passing the buck!

yes, but also note that only 10 % of the EU money went to the Greek people. 90% went to the banks. So the EU didn't give money for Greek they took over the debt from the banks.

The Greek budget, if they wouldn't have to pay back the credit rates would be balanced at the moment.

On the last plans from Greek IWF wanted lower taxes for big companies and rich and cutting for the poorest people.

So while Greek is still not understanding that they must save more money the others act only in the interest of the banks and huge international companies. It is not complete black and white.

(I would have never thought that there will be a moment I defend a left wing government....)

they might be supporting the banks but who borrowed the money - the government and therefore the people

The problem is that Greece wants the money but are continuing to spend it carelessly, it would be like you or me going to a bank for a loan to keep payments up on a mortgage then extending the terms from 25 years to 35 years so I could afford the payments then going out and buying an expensive car and eating in the most expensive restaurants still living the high life but unable to pay my electric bill

the government is not the people, specially not in Greek with one corrupt government after the other.

If you bring such a simplified example, I would put it that way: You live in a condominium, the rent is relative low and the service is good. 20 years later the come and want 500.000 Baht from you because the owner of the building made a big minus all the years and even let other parties live for free there so now everyone must pay for it.

And for your example: No one would have give you loans that you can't pay back the next 100 years......

The obvious and right way would have been years ago to let Greek bankrupt. No one would borrow them any money anymore, so they would have to bring their budget in order. On the other hand they would stop or postpone to pay back the loans, giving them enough money to go on. As early that would have happened as better it would have been. But no the got loans with 10 % rate, justified this high rate because of the risk of never seeing the money again.

I am not saying Greek is the good one and the others the evil....it is a decade of greed, careless, fraud, corruption from every side.....and it was not this government who took the loans.

(now I stop as I am already already crying because I have to defend an left wing almost communist government......)

[h90]

For some unknown reason Tsipras did not call on the rest of Europe to vote on whether they wanted to give Greece the money.

The other countries are free to ask their population.....would they have done it, it would be stopped years ago and now everything would be already repaired.

[Srikcir]

Seems to me that the Greeks are playing poker..... they are counting on the fact that the EU and the banks will fold at the last moment - on the grounds that Greece is a developed country and part of the credibility of the EU, and therefore too big to fail.

We will see who blinks, but I have little confidence in the EU to follow through on anything important.

The Greeks appear to be beyond help, and even if they win this pot with their bluff, they will need to keep playing for there is no end in sight to their economic mismanagement.

The problem for the Greek government in this poker game is that all the cards are face up. There can be no bluff or wild cards. It would be best for the Greek people to take responsibility as a sovereign nation and meet their debt obligations.

Otherwise, the alternative is merging with another State willing (like West Germany was with East Germany) to carry its financial debts. Russia was approached for financial aid but that country isn't finished with Ukraine yet to venture into more countries.

[h90]

Democracy meets economics.

He is passing the responsibility away from himself because he made popular election promises he now knows were impossible to keep, maybe Russia will bail them out or China

This vote is like calling on a trade union to vote on a 30% pay cut

Time to boot them out and stop this circus so the people can see the real (deleted) they are in as their banks collapse - pensions and wages cannot be paid and the whole country goes down the (deleted)

You think Russia or China would be so dumb to invite a freeloader ?

Russia would like nothing better than to get involved in EU affairs, they are being crippled right now by EU and US sanctions over their involvement in Ukraine, for them it would be an interesting and dangerous card to play

Russia is far from being crippled....politically they are stronger than ever. What USA did, it united the Russians and they made Russia and China being friends and forget all their past problems. Also Russia India, Russia Iran, Russia Venezuela is getting stronger. USA made Russia a kind of the hero for the poor.

When such things happen it always ends in some disaster:

The Christs in the Roman Empire

Fidel Castro

Hitler

Communism

Muslim Fanatics

etc etc etc

As more Russia shows off with power as more fanatics will follow them without thinking...

[h90]

Seems to me that the Greeks are playing poker..... they are counting on the fact that the EU and the banks will fold at the last moment - on the grounds that Greece is a developed country and part of the credibility of the EU, and therefore too big to fail.

We will see who blinks, but I have little confidence in the EU to follow through on anything important.

The Greeks appear to be beyond help, and even if they win this pot with their bluff, they will need to keep playing for there is no end in sight to their economic mismanagement.

The problem for the Greek government in this poker game is that all the cards are face up. There can be no bluff or wild cards. It would be best for the Greek people to take responsibility as a sovereign nation and meet their debt obligations.

Otherwise, the alternative is merging with another State willing (like West Germany was with East Germany) to carry its financial debts. Russia was approached for financial aid but that country isn't finished with Ukraine yet to venture into more countries.

The debts are so high they can't ever pay them back....no way....they can only go bankrupt....or sell their islands to Turkey.....Russia isn't able to pay that as well and they don't want Greek, they don't even want the Ukraine because they know they couldn't finance it.

[bdenner]

The sooner they pull the plug on this bankrupt ecconomy the better. <Undo Deleted FTY> is my Australian superannuation being ever effected by this sespit of a country is beyong me!

Edited June 27, 2015 by bdenner

[elgordo38]

This guy is losing a lot of credibility.He got elected to water down austerity and he has n't had a lot of success as the EU hang tough.The trouble is the greek people want their cake and eat it too,that is stay in the euro and have less austerity,they are just like children.They need to grow up,whether they stay or leave,pensions have to be reduced and the retirement age has to increase along with taxes.

Leaders are elected to lead and take the hard but right decisions,i think he's passing the buck!

Yes the money lenders must have their pound of flesh. Work the poor till age 67 or more. Forget about pensions for them they will never retire big savings here. This problem has festered over the decades and is not the complete fault of the present population. Past politico's offered to much to get elected. Soon this disease will come to the western countries. If you can take your pension in a lump sum it might be a good idea as there is no future guarantees of anything.

[Basil B]

I see this as yet another delaying tactic...

What will the referendum question be, by next Sunday the question maybe irrelevant ...

[Exsexyman]

This guy is losing a lot of credibility.He got elected to water down austerity and he has n't had a lot of success as the EU hang tough.The trouble is the greek people want their cake and eat it too,that is stay in the euro and have less austerity,they are just like children.They need to grow up,whether they stay or leave,pensions have to be reduced and the retirement age has to increase along with taxes.

Leaders are elected to lead and take the hard but right decisions,i think he's passing the buck!

yes, but also note that only 10 % of the EU money went to the Greek people. 90% went to the banks. So the EU didn't give money for Greek they took over the debt from the banks.

The Greek budget, if they wouldn't have to pay back the credit rates would be balanced at the moment.

On the last plans from Greek IWF wanted lower taxes for big companies and rich and cutting for the poorest people.

So while Greek is still not understanding that they must save more money the others act only in the interest of the banks and huge international companies. It is not complete black and white.

(I would have never thought that there will be a moment I defend a left wing government....)

they might be supporting the banks but who borrowed the money - the government and therefore the people

The problem is that Greece wants the money but are continuing to spend it carelessly, it would be like you or me going to a bank for a loan to keep payments up on a mortgage then extending the terms from 25 years to 35 years so I could afford the payments then going out and buying an expensive car and eating in the most expensive restaurants still living the high life but unable to pay my electric bill

But who lent the money? PRIVATE banks, in the full knowledge that it would be impossible for them to be paid back. There is a strong argument that these debts to private banks and hedge funds are illegal under EU rules regarding shifting debt onto the Public Sector. But we have been here before with these bankers, giving 110% mortgages to people with no jobs in the US knowing that for these mortgages to be paid is totally unrealistic. Likewise in the UK, bankers doing the same sort of things and losing billions. These are PRIVATE businesses, if they make stupid business decisions made under the influence of a crazed pure greed feeding frenzy, then come unstuck when reality bites, nobody's responsibility but theirs. Bite the bullet and take the loss. But no, what happens is that, ironically, they start screaming for some 'Socialism', ie the taxpayers should recompense them for their stupidity and greed which of course is what happened. None of them held responsible for the millions of people who lost their life savings, virtually no prosecutions. They just carry on as before, million dollar bonuses and trebles all round! If i go to a casino and blow all my money should i expect the taxpayer to bail me out? Or more pertinently, if i decide to lend a large sum of money to someone who i know has absolutely no chance of repaying it, should i start screaming for some socialism and expect my government to step in when the inevitable happens? Good luck with that one!

A tiny percentage of the bail out money to the Greek government actually went on aiding the country, the vast majority of this (Taxpayers) money went to private bankers, in many cases they were even paid extortionate interest rates, to effectively reward them for their greed led incompetence. Meanwhile the average man on the street is expected to suck it up.

Nothing is black and white in this crisis, to simply blame the whole thing on 'Lazy Greeks',(which doesn't stand up as an argument when statistics and facts come into play), is an extremely lazy intellectual argument, which of course gives the true culprits, ie, private businessmen who were greedy and incompetent a free run. Not to mention a hefty dollop of socialism in order that they can maintain their lifestyle into the bargain. I have always understood that 'socialism' is a dirty word, and leads to nations of scroungers, but clearly i have been under a misapprehension. It is now clearly fashionable in high society. Who woulda thunk it!