US should explain its harsh rights report on Thailand, govt says

[craigt3365]

Let's try to stick to the topic, please.

[rayw]

But this is coming from a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens, invades other countries on the flimsiest of excuses, detains citizens of other countries without trial and those persons only defenders are appointed by the the US military. Some of those people have been arrested in countries other than the USA and many of them have been awaiting trial for years.

It regularly sends drones to kill people in other countries and worries little if anything about "collateral damage" to that countries citizens.

Civilians in the USA are regularly killed by the police forces within the USA.

It supports freedom of speech but when it comes to Wikileaks it wants to prosecute to the nth degree those people that expose the truth.

It supports dictatorial regimes in some parts of the world.

When you live in a glass house it is not always a good idea to throw stones.

And those transgressions are regularly condemned by other countries who have blood on their own hands. Despite what you think, in this world, the faults of a country do not preclude it from speaking out against those of other countries

Yes indeed and it is called hypocrisy and it is intolerable wherever it raises its head. I think one of the biggest hypocritical groups we know as the current Washington administration should keep the hell out of Thailand's affairs as it is clearly obvious that things have improved no end here since the Junta Government took over last year and which is working honourably for the good of the people of Thailand towards true and proper PR based democracy early next year. They even propose a fair and proper democratic referendum for the free will of the people to prevail and decide about the proposals for true democratic electoral reform to a PR based system. Such a PR system will never again allow a minority elected Governments to take unchallenged power, which is surely far worse and less democratic than anything this current Junta Government can be and often is completely wrongly accused of.

Just remember this peaceful coup last year was borne out of absolute necessity and I think we all feel happier and safer for it too. So Washington can kneb out of it and go screw itself IMHO as they are crass ignorant and arrogant as usual. I am knocking Washington administration and the paymaster lobbyist fat cats who control it, certainly not the ordinary good decent US citizens whose only real sin is apathy, which sadly allows Washington to continue with is corruption and current extreme and dangerous insanity and for it to rape true democracy as it is doing both at home and abroad.

no WE all dont feel happier and safer. speak for yourself.

Well i certainly do and many many folk I speak to and on here in TVF seem to feel safer and happier than they did brfore we had he painless and bloodless could that was sorely needed here. I obviously cannot say categorically that most folk are happier and safer and why I said i THINK they are. Of course a poll here on TVF with one vote per member would give an idea.

What I do not understand is WHY you do not feel safer and happier than before the coup ?? I find that hard to believe and seems out of step with what you hear form folk Thai and Falang in the streets.

Oh BTW in reply to your post following the above one, I do not see why those state Governors are important at all in those two states even though I confess I know little about them. You do not say why they are so important and that IS important when you make such statements??? Are they both exceptionally good caring men who look after the people rather than the big businesses and money ?? If the latter then they are not important but purely low life and not at all to be respected. I have no respect for any of the low life in Washington let alone state governors, though I accept some state governors might well be good guys/girls and if so all credit to them as they will be the important ones for sure who do not bow down to the corporate fat cat paymasters.

Currently, and I am NOT a communist or indeed a capitalist, I completely open mindedly would say Putin is the most respected, the least dishonest and most important man in the World right now and certainly has more support of his people (over 80% I hear) than any other world leader that I know of. He also commands far more World wide respect too than anyone in the very corrupt and crazy Washington whose corruption and dishonesty is clearly seen and despised all over the free world.

[lostoday]

no WE all dont feel happier and safer. speak for yourself.

Well i certainly do and many many folk I speak to and on here in TVF seem to feel safer and happier than they did brfore we had he painless and bloodless could that was sorely needed here. I obviously cannot say categorically that most folk are happier and safer and why I said i THINK they are. Of course a poll here on TVF with one vote per member would give an idea.

What I do not understand is WHY you do not feel safer and happier than before the coup ?? I find that hard to believe and seems out of step with what you hear form folk Thai and Falang in the streets.

Oh BTW in reply to your post following the above one, I do not see why those state Governors are important at all in those two states even though I confess I know little about them. You do not say why they are so important and that IS important when you make such statements??? Are they both exceptionally good caring men who look after the people rather than the big businesses and money ?? If the latter then they are not important but purely low life and not at all to be respected. I have no respect for any of the low life in Washington let alone state governors, though I accept some state governors might well be good guys/girls and if so all credit to them as they will be the important ones for sure who do not bow down to the corporate fat cat paymasters.

Currently, and I am NOT a communist or indeed a capitalist, I completely open mindedly would say Putin is the most respected, the least dishonest and most important man in the World right now and certainly has more support of his people (over 80% I hear) than any other world leader that I know of. He also commands far more World wide respect too than anyone in the very corrupt and crazy Washington whose corruption and dishonesty is clearly seen and despised all over the free world.

Honest no disrespect meant but reading your last paragraph I think most on Thai Visa would think you are a nut case. I mean that in a nice respectful way.

Clearly the line of people waiting to get into Russia is 1% of the line waiting to get into the USA.

Looking back at your other posts they are mostly anti USA rants that lend little credibility to anything you might write. Nor do you have any actual knowledge of the working of the USA.

The President of the USA has no money. He can't fund anything. You may want to read up on the role and power of State governors. Forty-four states—all except Indiana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina,Rhode Island, and Vermont—give their governors some form of line-item veto power. The Mayor of Washington, D.C. also has this power.

This is a critical power and determines the real power of the office.

Take a small economy like Russia and the economies of just two American states together (California and Texas) are larger then the whole country of Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

The leader of Russia is relatively small time when compared to three State governors in the USA.

When the USA talks even in this report from the State Department to the Congress other countries listen.

In terms of economic clout you have the EU, USA and China. When they speak the world listens.

Everyone may not agree with the EU, USA and China but when they talk it is not in most countries interest to point out hypocrisy because money talks and BS still walks

Edited June 29, 2015 by lostoday

[TheAppletons]

Well i certainly do and many many folk I speak to and on here in TVF seem to feel safer and happier than they did brfore we had he painless and bloodless could that was sorely needed here. I obviously cannot say categorically that most folk are happier and safer and why I said i THINK they are. Of course a poll here on TVF with one vote per member would give an idea.

What I do not understand is WHY you do not feel safer and happier than before the coup ?? I find that hard to believe and seems out of step with what you hear form folk Thai and Falang in the streets.

Oh BTW in reply to your post following the above one, I do not see why those state Governors are important at all in those two states even though I confess I know little about them. You do not say why they are so important and that IS important when you make such statements??? Are they both exceptionally good caring men who look after the people rather than the big businesses and money ?? If the latter then they are not important but purely low life and not at all to be respected. I have no respect for any of the low life in Washington let alone state governors, though I accept some state governors might well be good guys/girls and if so all credit to them as they will be the important ones for sure who do not bow down to the corporate fat cat paymasters.

Currently, and I am NOT a communist or indeed a capitalist, I completely open mindedly would say Putin is the most respected, the least dishonest and most important man in the World right now and certainly has more support of his people (over 80% I hear) than any other world leader that I know of. He also commands far more World wide respect too than anyone in the very corrupt and crazy Washington whose corruption and dishonesty is clearly seen and despised all over the free world.

[phoenixdoglover]

The Gallup Poll put out a recent report Rating World Leaders: What People Worldwide Think of the U.S., China, Russia, the EU and Germany

"Russia is the only country whose leadership receives higher disapproval ratings than approval ratings, at 22% median approval versus 36% median disapproval."

Now back to the topic at hand.

Does the Thai leadership really not understand the US State Department's report, or are they just playing dumb?

[NovaBlue05]

Let's try to stick to the topic, please.

Sorry Craigt3365. On TVF, adding "US" to any thread title dooms any objective, critical thinking. It's like randomly throwing "Thaksin" into a thread about beer. You will never learn anything about beer.

[rayw]

>>>>

Honest no disrespect meant but reading your last paragraph I think most on Thai Visa would think you are a nut case. I mean that in a nice respectful way.

Clearly the line of people waiting to get into Russia is 1% of the line waiting to get into the USA.

Looking back at your other posts they are mostly anti USA rants that lend little credibility to anything you might write. Nor do you have any actual knowledge of the working of the USA.

The President of the USA has no money. He can't fund anything. You may want to read up on the role and power of State governors. Forty-four states—all except Indiana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina,Rhode Island, and Vermont—give their governors some form of line-item veto power. The Mayor of Washington, D.C. also has this power.

This is a critical power and determines the real power of the office.

Take a small economy like Russia and the economies of just two American states together (California and Texas) are larger then the whole country of Russia.

https://en.wikipedia...y_GDP_(nominal)

The leader of Russia is relatively small time when compared to three State governors in the USA.

When the USA talks even in this report from the State Department to the Congress other countries listen.

In terms of economic clout you have the EU, USA and China. When they speak the world listens.

Everyone may not agree with the EU, USA and China but when they talk it is not in most countries interest to point out hypocrisy because money talks and BS still walks

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Think what you like but you are totally incorrect as I am no more anti American than I am anti UK. I am indeed anti Washington these days and certainly since that idiot G.W.Bush as they are so corrupt and dishonest it is incredible how totally crazed they now are. You epitomise too many in the USA and many in UK too who are brainwashed by the Washington controlled presstitute media.

What I stated I stand by completely as outside of the "indispensable" and "exceptional" God's chosen nation of the USA as Washington ludicrously describes it, folk can and now do see how corrupt Washington is and how in comparison brilliant and sensibly calm Putin is handling all the demonising crap coming out of Washington and most of it even proven to be lies and deceit. It is always the same with the US as anyone who does not agree with them or exposes their deceit and corruption is immediately branded a nut case, well my friend you have some awakening to come.

Fortunately I do have good US friends who also open their minds from the incessant press Washington fed crap. I also must be one of those 1% you mention along with millions of others as yes I personally today would rather move to Russia with its great culture and socially more caring and stable society than the USA right now. However, I honestly would not choose to live in either of those nations. Ask me the same questions 20 years ago then I would easily choose the USA but certainly not now. I have no axe to grind per se but just being absolutely honest about how I now feel.

Once again you come down to it having to be so big and wealthy to be good, this is so misguided and so crass and where the US (and some other nations too) is going so badly wrong today. Of course nobody is saying Obama has the money or even the power, as that comes from the rich corporates who undemocratically control your nation now, whereas little if any true democratic power is given to the people any more. In comparison the new proposed charter here will properly give more true democracy to the ordinary good Thai folk and why Washington's unhelpful ignorant criticism of Thailand is so unwelcome and held in so much disdain. So yes on this issue I stand firmly with Thailand and their well meaning sound temporary Junta Government and I wish this country and it';s people well for a better happier future which should result. But I suppose one has to be a nut case to think like that according to the USA !!!!!!

Both the Democrats and Republicans are subservient to their rich paymasters something I thought was now common knowledge, certainly with most informed folk I know. The most important and respected men has nothing to do with their wealth and control over people it is about how good and caring they are towards the well being of all the people they are responsible for and here Putin leaves certainly anyone in Washington standing miles behind

You ought to open your mind and also read Paul Craig Roberts articles (yes he IS a very experienced and knowledgeable US citizen, Google it and read his credentials) and follow respected award winning investigative journalists like John Pilger and others and the masses of evidence and facts they clearly point out, all of which can be checked elsewhere. You will see also why Washington are behaving like the dangerous and corrupt imbeciles they are too, and why the UK and many other Washington vassal states are also being pathetic and crazy.

Anyway I have nothing more to add so will not come back to this thread again, but I had to reply to that usual slating of anyone who dares to disagree with the hegemonic Washington as being anti US and a nut case. That sadly indicates the workings of a narrow or simply brainwashed mind I feel. I am certainly not flaming you or anyone here, as I feel 99% of flaming is just immature and even infantile crap in the main, and in fact appreciate your input as we need well balanced opinions of course. We have drifted off topic enough already as this thread is about Thailand, though in fairness it is still related to the Washington arrogance and ignorance in criticising so wrongly what is currently happening by necessity here right now. Once again I am a Brit but the UK under Cameron is not a lot better either as it just blindly bows down to Washington's every word of which most they spout I assure you is based on blatant misinformation and lies, as a little open minded research will easily show you if you can just bother and open up the mind by maybe reading informed news sources rather than simply the very one sided and untruthful Washington fed Western presstitute media.

Edited June 29, 2015 by rayw

[lostoday]

Let's try to stick to the topic, please.

Sorry Craigt3365. On TVF, adding "US" to any thread title dooms any objective, critical thinking. It's like randomly throwing "Thaksin" into a thread about beer. You will never learn anything about beer.

It is impossible to even have an off topic debate when the USA is mentioned as the anti posters don't even read the off topic posts. They rush in quoting more nut cases and silly ideas with no rhyme or reason and never ever even answer one on topic or off topic retort.

Most of the debate here dwindled when the folks realized it was not a report given to Thailand but a evaluation of how America spends it's money from one government agency to another. Why would the US feel obligated to explain a report meant for the US congress to Thailand?

[NovaBlue05]

Let's try to stick to the topic, please.

Sorry Craigt3365. On TVF, adding "US" to any thread title dooms any objective, critical thinking. It's like randomly throwing "Thaksin" into a thread about beer. You will never learn anything about beer.

It is impossible to even have an off topic debate when the USA is mentioned as the anti posters don't even read the off topic posts. They rush in quoting more nut cases and silly ideas with no rhyme or reason and never ever even answer one on topic or off topic retort.

Most of the debate here dwindled when the folks realized it was not a report given to Thailand but a evaluation of how America spends it's money from one government agency to another. Why would the US feel obligated to explain a report meant for the US congress to Thailand?

For the junta, I suppose it inspires indignation in a nationalistic population and helps make them forget about what's going on in their backyard

[phoenixdoglover]

>>>>

Honest no disrespect meant but reading your last paragraph I think most on Thai Visa would think you are a nut case. I mean that in a nice respectful way.

Clearly the line of people waiting to get into Russia is 1% of the line waiting to get into the USA.

.....

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Think what you like but you are totally incorrect as I am no more anti American than I am anti UK. ....

I also must be one of those 1% you mention along with millions of others as yes I personally today would rather move to Russia with its great culture and socially more caring and stable society than the USA right now. ...

it is about how good and caring they are towards the well being of all the people they are responsible for and here Putin leaves certainly anyone in Washington standing miles behind

[portions excerpted]

I don't really mind the US bashing. There are kernels of truth to be found.

But with regard to the supposed qualities of Russia, I cannot fathom what sources of information you are using to form your opinions.

As places to live in a "great culture and socially more caring and stable society" I can think of dozens of countries that wold rank above Russia, including Thailand (with or without a Junta) and the US.

The life expectancy for men in Russia is 65 years. A fantastic improvement over 10 years ago, when it was 59 years!

This is 10 to 12 years less than many other nations.

For God's sake, man. Don't move to Russia.

[craigt3365]

Russia is a wonderful country. Most there are good people just trying to have a good life. As with many other countries, their government leaves a lot to be desired. I had a fantastic time over 4 weeks and met some great people. Including spending the night with a guy in Siberia jamming old rock n roll songs till the wee hours over way too many vodka shots. One of my best travel memories.

[englishoak]

The Gallup Poll put out a recent report Rating World Leaders: What People Worldwide Think of the U.S., China, Russia, the EU and Germany

"Russia is the only country whose leadership receives higher disapproval ratings than approval ratings, at 22% median approval versus 36% median disapproval."

Now back to the topic at hand.

Does the Thai leadership really not understand the US State Department's report, or are they just playing dumb?

Not just playing dumb, playing deaf and blind too.

Edited June 29, 2015 by englishoak

[AloisAmrein]

Whyle other countries in SE Asia go forward, Thailand goes backward.

[Jay Sata]

The USA for all its faults has freedom of expression as a basic right. Most civilised countries allow freedom for a person to say or write what they think without being arrested and imprisoned.

Thailand does not allow that freedom and we all know the restrictions and constraints even on a humble little western forum such as this.

The problem is the loss of global face in having to admit that the population are not free to discuss many issues.

[Thai at Heart]

But this is coming from a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens, invades other countries on the flimsiest of excuses, detains citizens of other countries without trial and those persons only defenders are appointed by the the US military. Some of those people have been arrested in countries other than the USA and many of them have been awaiting trial for years.

It regularly sends drones to kill people in other countries and worries little if anything about "collateral damage" to that countries citizens.

Civilians in the USA are regularly killed by the police forces within the USA.

It supports freedom of speech but when it comes to Wikileaks it wants to prosecute to the nth degree those people that expose the truth.

It supports dictatorial regimes in some parts of the world.

When you live in a glass house it is not always a good idea to throw stones.

Ignoring your knack of overstating things in a pretty ridiculous manner, what does any of that have to do with Thailands transgressions? Slavery still exists here. Refugees are sold into it. Camps are burned to "prevent them from being used again", or more likely to get rid of the evidence. Blocking voting booths, arresting people for speaking their mind, and overthrowing elected governments time and time again with military coups. Face it, Thailand deserves the rating it has received. It deserves to have its fishing industry boycotted. The US is far from perfect, but that doesn't invalidate what has been said.

I think you will find slavery exists in most countries reported often in the UK, and girls are trafficked here to work in the sex industry, some countries take the attention of themselves by accusing others

I think "often" might be a little bit of an overstatement. Beyond that, it rarely involves organisations such ad the navy or civil service if it exists at all, and if it is found , punishment is as swift as it can be.

Unlike 5 years to depose a few hundred witnesses. Things like this don't stand the test of relativism. No one in the USA is saying they are blameless, what they are saying is that Thailand definitely isnt blameless.

Its like being pregnant. Being more or less pregnant than your neighbour doesn't make any difference.

[Thai at Heart]

When will it USA stop being the play ground bully and stop categorizing and criticizing the world on their own believe. Thinking their policy is best for the world.

Instead encouraging better understanding among humanity in the world, they choose to build division.

Civilization survive long before USA came along. Get over your machoism USA.

Is there a better non american version of slavery?

[bamukloy]

The US has supported some of the worst dictatorships in the world eg Egypt, Chile, Nicaragua, Phillipines. How dare they attack a long time ally that is better off by far under the current arrangement than under the previous Taksin related corrupt governments.

Its what they do and they've been doing it for a long time. You have very wealthy members of certain organizations, branches in all countries. They are able to agitate both sides to create the instability they want and regardless of who wins they have achieved their goal.

But of course they know exactly who wins, as its nothing but a rigged chess game.

Ever wonder why America seems to favour reds?

Do some research and look what international organisations the puppet master is in and what boards is in.

Strange resemblance that the disharmony in Thailand is unique but yet mirrors a lot of the disharmony the rest of the world is also experiencing.

[Jay Sata]

The EU are also critical of jailing of students as illustrated on another thread.

We are discussing rights and freedom in Thailand not what the US does.

[craigt3365]

Again, please stick to the topic.