Advice for driving BIG bikes in Thailand

[kannot]

Thai roads are basically a free for all. That's why you have the mortality statistics I provided earlier.

Thais drive passive aggressively. So always expect the unexpected.

The general rule of the road seems to be "He who gets there first has the right of way". Therefore that precludes and social or civil norms like right of way that you have on the road in most developed countries.

I wouldn't worry about things like where to place yourself in a lane for example since you are at even greater disadvantage just by being on motorcycle. Most cars don't even acknowledge your existence on the road. So just drive in whatever way you feel most greatly increases your chances of survival.

Sorry to sound cynical, but that's the sad reality out on the roads here I believe.

I totally agree with most of what you say although you de propose an oxymoron.

The whole idea of defensive riding is that your position and speed is the best place at anyone time to avoid the hazards around you.

Ignoring lessons learned by others puts you in more danger rather than less.

Here is an example of what I mean:

You are welcome to come over to Facebook and join a group where there is loads more on this subject - facebook.com/groups/Thaimotorcycle

Defensive riding is not about right and wrong. It's about discussing ways for us all to be safer.

The skills you demonstrate that you have learned from experience of riding in Thailand could easily be shared, it is a shame you dismiss them.

It is a fact that Thai Riders demonstrate the same level of defensive riding skills than many trained American riders do.

Would it not be a better idea to try and share the techniques you use to keep yourself alive? As you seem to be doing ok at that so far?

This is exactly how I would drive in the UK always looking as far ahead as I possibly can see, driving a bike is very tiring as my eyes were always looking at every junction, pedestrian, car door (waiting to be slung open) way more tiring than a car.

My biggest fear here though is the dogs, these can come from nowhere and theres is usually no warning.

Something I never did in the Uk was drive in wet weather unless I got caught out in it, 2 reasons, one I cant stand a dirty bike but more so too slippery for me.

Diesel spills were also a bit of a nightmare years ago in the UK and when pulling up at any traffic lights there is always going to be a lot of oil drip residue from other vehicles who waited at the lights with leaking engines etc.

[CarolJadzia]

This is exactly how I would drive in the UK always looking as far ahead as I possibly can see, driving a bike is very tiring as my eyes were always looking at every junction, pedestrian, car door (waiting to be slung open) way more tiring than a car.

My biggest fear here though is the dogs, these can come from nowhere and theres is usually no warning.

Something I never did in the Uk was drive in wet weather unless I got caught out in it, 2 reasons, one I cant stand a dirty bike but more so too slippery for me.

Diesel spills were also a bit of a nightmare years ago in the UK and when pulling up at any traffic lights there is always going to be a lot of oil drip residue from other vehicles who waited at the lights with leaking engines etc.

If you watch my videos above you will find I encountered most of what you describe on the two rides.

I do totally agree with you about dogs, we did have a couple of encounters. They are a serious problem.

I ride in the rain, you don't get much choice when you ride professionally. Plus my motorcycle has been my only form of transport for many years. Even though I now own a car I still prefer the bike. You are right to be careful. Modern radial tyres deal displace water and offer better grip far better than the old crossplys did, but you certainly don't have the same amount of grip as on a dry road . I did see many oil spills on the road. My biggest worry was not seeing a storm drain cover as many are broken and when flooded are hard to see.

I think that's a really good point about junctions. With the prevalence of badly maintained vehicles and the dangers of being rear ended at junctions. Rather than advice in the UK to stay dominant at a junction to keep the vehicle behind you - behind you. In Thailand best advice would be to stop nearer the edge of the lane, especially if you are stopping on a fast road with nothing behind you. If the vehicle behind you fails to stop at least he has a choice to pass you rather than rear end you.

It's so much nicer riding in Thai rain as it's warm!

Edited June 28, 2015 by CarolJadzia

[DILLIGAD]

The one thing that I have registered here when riding in Thailand about animal running across your path, is always expect another to follow the "leader". Seen it many times and always slow down when I think "that's lucky it crossed before I got there"

[mark131v]

If you are riding a moped on a regular basis in traffic then riding a big bike in traffic is very similar but with the advantage that you get away from traffic much faster and can stay ahead of all the loony's, you usually have a better view and better brakes hence arguably your a bit safer

If you are not comfortable in traffic on a scooter you probably wont be comfortable on a big bike either but like many things the more you do it the easier it gets. If you have come from a place where filtering is not allowed or frowned on then you have a bit of learning to do as I reckon that is a vital skill to have in LOS but once you are happy with that Thai traffic gets way easier

Personally all the stuff about using the bike like its a pickup needs exorcising from your brain real quick as sitting behind cars in traffic without an escape route is not a recipe for a long and happy life....

I don't think you understand what I mean by using my bike like a pick up, I want to know if sitting in the middle of any lane is done on BIG bikes or not, I often see big bikes driving like they were a small car and using the whole of a lane not cowering in at the side like scooters

Would you sit in the middle of the lane in the UK? personally I am all over the road but try to stay away from sitting in the middle of the lane, I try to ride in the tracks of the wheels of the traffic as it seems logical that that will be the cleanest area of the road and have less oil and debris, generally I will try and position myself in the place where I get the best possible view ahead and frequently in busy traffic on a fast flowing road that for me is often behind the driver in front close to the white line but if you ride you know that changes by the second depending on conditions

edit I think Wingnut hit the nail on the head when he said not to get too hung up on road positioning but just try to do whatever you feel is safest for you, you have learned to ride in the west which gives in my opinion a far better education you just need to make that fit into the local surroundings

Edited June 28, 2015 by mark131v

[kannot]

When buying a bike here do they give you any freebies like when you buy a car? Just wondering as Wif e will order it for me and I fancy the seat cowl Honda make?

[rondii]

1st,how much do you like,care about like etc.If life is only so so to you,don't really care if you lived another day,then

Ride A 70cc up to A 2000 cc. If your really enjoying life,your in good health and want to stay that way,then don't gamble.

I've been riding since 1967,some in Thailand.I love motorcycling.But I have given it up in Thailand.The risks are so

Great on getting permantly hurt or killed.Good luck it's your life.

Absolute cobblers! I have no death wish and love my life and family but I will not be wrapping myself in cotton wool and waiting to die any time soon, if I thought like you I would never go to work and never leave the house and life would have been incredibly boring, live your life that doesn't have to mean being stupid but life IS risk!!

Agree with you in this post, and I think if they looked at the stats carefully they'd find most of the motorcycle deaths are outside Bangkok, with some in Bangkok late in evening and drunk.

I rode big bikes in Australia, but here in Bangkok, every day to work, about 13km each way, it's a 150cc.(and I'm 186cm and 87kg) Because the big bikes are often a pain in the ass, because they can't filter as well and often block the other bikes. And mostly you're filtering..only a few occasions to open up.

So if it's to go to work in the "peak several hours ", stick to the smaller stuff.

[kannot]

When buying a bike here do they give you any freebies like when you buy a car? Just wondering as Wif e will order it for me and I fancy the seat cowl Honda make?

No freebies and no discount, Honda fix the price for sure, ordered it just +5800 baht delivery in covered pick up from BKK to Pranburi

[kannot]

1st,how much do you like,care about like etc.If life is only so so to you,don't really care if you lived another day,then

Ride A 70cc up to A 2000 cc. If your really enjoying life,your in good health and want to stay that way,then don't gamble.

I've been riding since 1967,some in Thailand.I love motorcycling.But I have given it up in Thailand.The risks are so

Great on getting permantly hurt or killed.Good luck it's your life.

Absolute cobblers! I have no death wish and love my life and family but I will not be wrapping myself in cotton wool and waiting to die any time soon, if I thought like you I would never go to work and never leave the house and life would have been incredibly boring, live your life that doesn't have to mean being stupid but life IS risk!!

Agree with you in this post, and I think if they looked at the stats carefully they'd find most of the motorcycle deaths are outside Bangkok, with some in Bangkok late in evening and drunk.

I rode big bikes in Australia, but here in Bangkok, every day to work, about 13km each way, it's a 150cc.(and I'm 186cm and 87kg) Because the big bikes are often a pain in the ass, because they can't filter as well and often block the other bikes. And mostly you're filtering..only a few occasions to open up.

So if it's to go to work in the "peak several hours ", stick to the smaller stuff.

Im sure most is just due to appalling riding skills ie ZERO

[smotherb]

1st,how much do you like,care about like etc.If life is only so so to you,don't really care if you lived another day,then

Ride A 70cc up to A 2000 cc. If your really enjoying life,your in good health and want to stay that way,then don't gamble.

I've been riding since 1967,some in Thailand.I love motorcycling.But I have given it up in Thailand.The risks are so

Great on getting permantly hurt or killed.Good luck it's your life.

While I cannot argue your point of risky riding here, I have to admit I still ride.

The best advice for the OP is to ride very defensively. Technically, a motorcycle is a motorcycle under Thai law and all motorcycles are supposed to be ridden on the far left of the roadway. Certainly, ruts, holes, gravel, sand, other debris, vehicles, livestock, and multitudes of barge-ins are present in the far left motorcycle lanes. So, I too ride in the right lane always watching my six for the fast approaching four wheelers which will invariably pass you and/or force you out of the right lane.

My favorite danger is oncoming traffic which will pull into your lane to pass, expecting you to merge into the far left motorcycle lane, which is filled with the aformentioned obstacles. Needless to say, you can't win that kind of chicken race.

[ChiangmaiRob]

Do you drive a scooter in Thailand?

Yes

Seems you really need to look around a LOT more and get lots more experience while you're out on your scooter, before you even consider riding a big bike! I mean ... turning right from the left lane ... come on!!

[Jimlove]

I mean should I ride the bike like I drive the pick up ie keep in the middle of the lane not in at the edge of the road ie treat the bike as if it were a small car taking up the room a car would on the road

See Rhys post, there is no formula how to ride safe here.

I am all over the place when riding and try keeping my distance to other road users so I have time to react if they do something stupid (which they do sometimes, LOL).

Agree ... How can you ride safe here when you are surrounded by clowns that have never learned how to drive and have the "me me me" mentality ... ?

[NoshowJones]

Thai roads are basically a free for all. That's why you have the mortality statistics I provided earlier.

Thais drive passive aggressively. So always expect the unexpected.

The general rule of the road seems to be "He who gets there first has the right of way". Therefore that precludes and social or civil norms like right of way that you have on the road in most developed countries.

I wouldn't worry about things like where to place yourself in a lane for example since you are at even greater disadvantage just by being on motorcycle. Most cars don't even acknowledge your existence on the road. So just drive in whatever way you feel most greatly increases your chances of survival.

Sorry to sound cynical, but that's the sad reality out on the roads here I believe.

Good post Wingnut. I also believe that the Thai road conditions are to blame for a lot of motorbike accidents and fatalities'

You just cannot say that you will stay in the first lane, or the hard shoulder, or any other lane, you will have to keep changing

because of the state of the roads, as well as the odd behavior of other traffic.

[matman]

Use your eyes like they are radars. Scan everything and be prepared. Always keep 100% focused. Have a rest if you find yoursef daydreaming.

Always leave yourself some wriggle room in the hills. Some of the corners here tighten up halfway around and you may have someone on your side of the road as well. Only nail it if you can see all the way through a corner. Never cross the centreline in a corner, the other side is not yours to use.

The grip varies here. Use the best tyres money can buy and always check your pressures. Learn to read the surface and what kind of road you are on.

Excellent advice.

In town I use a Honda Click, so much easier to move about in moving and stationary traffic, for long/touring runs I use a Honda Silverwing 400, so comfortable for long distances and mirrors that are actually useable!!.

Reading the road surface as said by Bung really importent , need to focus 200 metres ahead for changes in colour of the surface, or straight white lines that suddenly begin to look like a snake. Sadly you have to treat every other driver, no matter what they drive, as a complete idiot, and always expect them to do the opposite of what they should.

I am also lucky that my Thai Wife and pillion passenger has incredible 'road sense', and acts as a second pair of eyes for me, sometimes alerting me to potential dangers before I've had chance to spot them myself. Her 'input' at busy junctions where you need eyes everywhere has been invaluable

[razer]

Keep it Simple ... First spend some time walking the sidewalks with vendors on both sides.

Notice how nobody seemingly knows or gives a <deleted> you are there? Don't see you? Could care less? Stops dead in front of you while you're walking or crosses in front of you by .5 meter requiring you to stop for them? Totally zoned out looking at something in a shop window? Wandering right to left at the pace of a buffalo while texting or talking? This is foot traffic for God's sake.

It's the same on the street ... even if you were in an Indian style psychedelic pick-up truck with bells, whistles and flashing lights.

[matman]

Technically, a motorcycle is a motorcycle under Thai law and all motorcycles are supposed to be ridden on the far left of the roadway.

Another misconception, the Thai Highway code (based on the UK Highway Cade) calls for ALL vehicles (including motorcycles) to keep to the left except when overtaking slower moving vehicles or obstructions.

[CarolJadzia]

I mean should I ride the bike like I drive the pick up ie keep in the middle of the lane not in at the edge of the road ie treat the bike as if it were a small car taking up the room a car would on the road

See Rhys post, there is no formula how to ride safe here.

I am all over the place when riding and try keeping my distance to other road users so I have time to react if they do something stupid (which they do sometimes, LOL).

Agree ... How can you ride safe here when you are surrounded by clowns that have never learned how to drive and have the "me me me" mentality ... ?

I totally agree about the mentality of some but is that not a good reason for improving your own defensive riding skills to combat the loonies?

[Mr Wonderful]

My motto before every ride is that "it's Thailabd and there are a thousand ways to die today". I also mentally go over the few close calls I have had to avoid them at all cost.

I wear highest quality (BMW branded) full vented gear which contrary to popular opinion keeps you cooler at temperatures in excess of 35 Degrees C. Full face Helmet and gloves, boots are all a must.

Most the time I feel safer around traffic in thailand than in canada or USA where it appears some drivers deliberately gun for motorcyclists. At least in thailand nobody hates motorbikes.

As mentioned above, an experienced and alert pillion is worth a lot. And having a Bluetooth com system can be a god sent in that configuration.

Lastly a tall bike works wonders. I have ridden regular sized 600-800 cc bikes and can't believe the difference it makes being seated high up on a GSA. See and be seen. I agree a high viz vest seems to make no difference or actually draw more than necessary attention. Blend in and stay ahead, keep a safety bubble and expect the worst at all times.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Mr Wonderful

[willr]

Drive a big bike? Better stay with your pick up I think.

[Kerryd]

I try to ride as defensively as possible, but it's still a challenge. Thailand is a place where you can be riding down a 2 lane road and see 3 lanes of traffic coming at you. Add in the other variables (crappy roads, animals, unskilled drivers, drunk drivers, weather) and at times it's more like Death Race 2000 than anything else.

I (generally) ride in the middle of the left lane and try to leave myself enough room that I can go left or right (or hit the brakes) as needed. If there are concerns (see above), I'll move over a lane (or two).

If I need to use the right lane I use it. If I know I'm making a right turn soon I get into the right lane sooner than later. Lot of accidents are reported as someone trying to dash across 4 lanes of traffic to get to a U-Turn or intersection. Better off to move into the lane when it's safe (the odds of getting ticketed for being in the right lane are not worth worrying about, especially if doing so means a safer ride).

When we ride as a group we tend to spend more time in the right lane. Mostly because we seem to be travelling faster than everything in the left lane anyways. If the road is clear and the traffic is light, we'll use the left lane. When we get to an intersection we always trying to work our way to the very front. We are faster off the line than most scooters and cages and if something is going to happen, we prefer it happens behind us, not right in front of us.

As others have mentioned though, you have to keep your head on a swivel and expect the unexpected, at - all - times. I like to keep a (fairly) safe distance between me and whoever is in front of me. I'm not just worried about what he may do, I'm worried about what whoever in front of him may do as well that could cause the guy in front of me to have to react.

[Mr Wonderful]

Defensive driving is a bit of a misnomer when on a big bike. Left lane riding is impossible unless someone wishes to ride from Bangkok to Phuket at 60 km/h behind a bunch of diesel belching trucks.

My defense is fast but not insane speed on the middle or right lane, giving cars very few chances to be quicker than myself, avoid being overtaken (easier to concentrate on the road ahead than worrying about being rear ended) and essentially working all the time to make my moving bubble my sanctuary.

[CarolJadzia]

Keep it Simple ... First spend some time walking the sidewalks with vendors on both sides.

Notice how nobody seemingly knows or gives a <deleted> you are there? Don't see you? Could care less? Stops dead in front of you while you're walking or crosses in front of you by .5 meter requiring you to stop for them? Totally zoned out looking at something in a shop window? Wandering right to left at the pace of a buffalo while texting or talking? This is foot traffic for God's sake.

It's the same on the street ... even if you were in an Indian style psychedelic pick-up truck with bells, whistles and flashing lights.

SMIDSY - Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.

One of the largest reasons for motorcycle accidents anywhere in the world - not just Thailand.

New research has suggested new ways to deal with it. One big problem is positioning. If you are riding along the left edge of the road then often the drivers door pillar will obscure the view the driver has of an approaching bike. This is why I hate the motorcycle lanes around Phuket for example. A knee jerk response to an advisor saying that the best way to keep motorcycles safe is to separate them from other vehicles. What it has actually done is increase the possibility of them not being seen.

So the advice is to make yourself visible to the Driver. This can be done by changing your position a little. Moving out.

The other big problem is not being seen against the background. This is where one early knee jerk response was to wear high viz. Only that has limitations

Braking your outline against the backdrop is the important thing. Having your lights on helps. Unless the sun is behind you.

Try to avoid braking if there is a car emerging. It can look as if you are slowing to take the turn so even if the driver has seen you he might pull out anyway.

The other thing to look for is watch the wheels. If you are not sure if the car is going to pull out on you keep an eye on the wheels as they are easier to judge if moving and can give you an early sigh the vehicle is going to try and pull out.

[oztaurus]

As others have said, 360 awareness .... pre-order a Skully helmet http://www.skully.com/#smartest-helmet and take a mind reading course so you know what all other drivers on the road are going to do before they know it themselves (if you've been riding for a while this is probably already 2nd nature - remember to do it consciously in Thailand!).

Remember that most road users are not expecting you to be there and they are not looking for you and they don't care if they hit you because you will get hurt and they won't. They will do stupid things that make you ask what they were thinking ...... they weren't. My GF and I have coined a phrases for this "samorng borisut" - virgin brain - never used, still in the box it came in. Try to be where the accident isn't.

As others have also said - beware road surfaces, off-camber corners, dirt drifting across the road, oil on the road, wet patches, uneven surfaces, no matter how hot, wear clothes with some degree of protection for the inevitable day when you do come off.

Oh, and make sure to enjoy the ride.

[CarolJadzia]

Defensive driving is a bit of a misnomer when on a big bike. Left lane riding is impossible unless someone wishes to ride from Bangkok to Phuket at 60 km/h behind a bunch of diesel belching trucks.

My defense is fast but not insane speed on the middle or right lane, giving cars very few chances to be quicker than myself, avoid being overtaken (easier to concentrate on the road ahead than worrying about being rear ended) and essentially working all the time to make my moving bubble my sanctuary.

I totally agree with your system and have used it myself.

However it has one major flaw

Around the next corner if you have to stop or something goes wrong you have now got all those speeding bad drivers coming up behind you.

Sometimes I prefer an easier life. Let the idiots race ahead. Clear the road for me.

[kannot]

I try to ride as defensively as possible, but it's still a challenge. Thailand is a place where you can be riding down a 2 lane road and see 3 lanes of traffic coming at you. Add in the other variables (crappy roads, animals, unskilled drivers, drunk drivers, weather) and at times it's more like Death Race 2000 than anything else.

I (generally) ride in the middle of the left lane and try to leave myself enough room that I can go left or right (or hit the brakes) as needed. If there are concerns (see above), I'll move over a lane (or two).

If I need to use the right lane I use it. If I know I'm making a right turn soon I get into the right lane sooner than later. Lot of accidents are reported as someone trying to dash across 4 lanes of traffic to get to a U-Turn or intersection. Better off to move into the lane when it's safe (the odds of getting ticketed for being in the right lane are not worth worrying about, especially if doing so means a safer ride).

When we ride as a group we tend to spend more time in the right lane. Mostly because we seem to be travelling faster than everything in the left lane anyways. If the road is clear and the traffic is light, we'll use the left lane. When we get to an intersection we always trying to work our way to the very front. We are faster off the line than most scooters and cages and if something is going to happen, we prefer it happens behind us, not right in front of us.

As others have mentioned though, you have to keep your head on a swivel and expect the unexpected, at - all - times. I like to keep a (fairly) safe distance between me and whoever is in front of me. I'm not just worried about what he may do, I'm worried about what whoever in front of him may do as well that could cause the guy in front of me to have to react.

Thanks for the sanity unlike some dumbass replies.

[kannot]

As others have said, 360 awareness .... pre-order a Skully helmet http://www.skully.com/#smartest-helmet and take a mind reading course so you know what all other drivers on the road are going to do before they know it themselves (if you've been riding for a while this is probably already 2nd nature - remember to do it consciously in Thailand!).

Remember that most road users are not expecting you to be there and they are not looking for you and they don't care if they hit you because you will get hurt and they won't. They will do stupid things that make you ask what they were thinking ...... they weren't. My GF and I have coined a phrases for this "samorng borisut" - virgin brain - never used, still in the box it came in. Try to be where the accident isn't.

As others have also said - beware road surfaces, off-camber corners, dirt drifting across the road, oil on the road, wet patches, uneven surfaces, no matter how hot, wear clothes with some degree of protection for the inevitable day when you do come off.

Oh, and make sure to enjoy the ride.

Nice idea with the helmet camera.............but $1500

Edited June 28, 2015 by kannot

[Lokie]

OP

Id apply what you already know (safe road craft) switch on your Spidey senses here in LOS, constant awareness of the nutters around you especially from rear if your slowing to make a right at junctions, if you have to stop try position in an area where some idiot can not come through and take you out (I know easier said than done) oodles of common sense (which is whats lacking here) on a Big bike with enough power I hold my road position as taught (UK) on my scooter I do stay left slightly where the bike lanes are clearly marked but also watch mirrors as the amount of times vehicles just bowl through and undertake like maniacs over these does not make them any safer... coupled with the Ghost riding techniques of locals coming head on at you, could be argued that the bike lane is actually more dangerous - i think in summary it is a case of - take your time, keep your eyes peeled and be prepared to take evasive manouvers if required, enjoy and be safe!!

A mate told me and he is right; Its not if you have ana accident in Thailand, is just a matter of when...?

[wabothai]

Small bike riding = russian roulette

big bike riding = russian roulette with 2 bullits

[Mr Wonderful]

Small bike riding = russian roulette

big bike riding = russian roulette with 2 bullits

Intelligent reply of the day. Last thing you rode on less than four wheels was your tricycle? Edited June 28, 2015 by Mr Wonderful

[ggt]

Been riding bikes since I was 14...from 100cc up to 1800cc...in many parts of the world...

My best advise for biking in Thailand is: DON"T

People of Thailand do not obey an rules or order when driving here...just look at the number of bikes riding against the flow of traffic for starters...

If you MUST bike here: DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE

You will need all your faculty in tact just to survive a bike trip here...

Rent a bike from time to time to quell your passion for riding...

You will live longer and stay out of more trouble by staying away from a big bike here...

Good Luck!

[connda]

I drove a full framed 'Big' bike between Chiang Mai and my home in Lamphun. On Highway 11, I'd drive in the middle of the left lane, and pass in the right lane. The law probably says that is illegal, but it's a idiotic law that no Thai with a big bike would ever obey. When I'm on my Honda Dream? I drive on the shoulder with all the other sub-200cc small frame bikes.

With that said, don't expect any Thai car, bus, or truck driver to respect you even on a big bike. I've been in some situation where I've had cars and buses bear down on my out of nowhere, when I was doing 90 to 100 in the left lane and they were doing god-only-knows how fast and they simply wanted me out of their way (you should be driving on the shoulder with the Honda 500 stupid non-Hi-So person). If you feel comfortable cruising at 120 to 140, well, your then traveling at the same speed as the 'big dogs'. Personally, with all the freaking stupidity I've seen on Thai roads, I'm not comfortable driving much above 100. The left lane is always a dangerous place to drive with idiots pulling out from nowhere without looking or caring.

If you can, find like minded riders, then drive in a group. You're less likely to have problems. Safe driving, mate!