Thai farmer commits suicide due to withered crop

[ramrod711]

Here are the facts, not half baked "opinions" http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/16/us-thailand-rice-idUSBREA1F08320140216

[VillageIdiot]

In 2014 a few farmer suicides were reported. The usual group of frothers were fast to blame the PTP and Yingluck.

Using their twisted deficient logic at the time, the Military rulers are to blame for this suicide.

Just as I didn't play the blame game with the government in 2014, it shouldn't be done now.

Oh kid.. facts you don't like them

Farmers killed themselves because YL did not pay for the rice. She stepped down without making the necessary arrangements (stupidity .. negligence.. criminal.. take your pick) So yes there is blame there

Blaming the government for drought.. no way you can pin that on the government. (unless they mismanaged the drought just like you can mismanage a flood.. guess who did that)

"Farmers killed themselves because YL did not pay for the rice."

"better worry about the lost money to the Shinawatras in rice scam + other corruptions".

Sometimes the Opposition thinks they can conjure up any silliness and innuendo's, and many will consider it gospel. (farmers killing themselves over Govt. policy) plus (other drive-by smears as per quote above..Post #14) ..................they are correct about that.

I wonder how many corn farmers in Iowa have killed themselves, blaming generous Govt. Ag. subsidy programs?....... Sort of puts this Opposition folderol in perspective.

Preventing/obstructing payment to farmers, and then blaming Yingluck for not paying was their MO.

Again someone who did not know the facts.. not strange for a red supporter.

Even before she stepped down they were months to late with paying. (so that was BEFORE) she stepped down.

Then she could have taken steps to loan money to pay the farmers while she was in power and then step down, she did not after she stepped down the government could not loan anymore because that is not legal. It was her stupidity / negligence that she made no provisions for that. But even before that point the farmers were paid far to late.

Just look it up.. you might learn something.

Can't argue with that.

One point that should be made is that everything Yingluck did while in office was directed by her "caddy".

[ramrod711]

have to agree with Robblok, look it up. http://nsnbc.me/2014/02/11/thailand-regime-peddles-false-hope-cheated-farmers/

[Bannum opinions]

have to agree with Robblok, look it up. http://nsnbc.me/2014/02/11/thailand-regime-peddles-false-hope-cheated-farmers/

Wow, did Suthep write that?

[ramrod711]

At what point did PTT promise the farmers "we will pay you if we can obtain a loan"? They promised them that they would be paid, because they were certain, in their warped little minds, that they could manipulate the world market, and therefore the price.

[Bannum opinions]

This article about a suicide has segued into a discussion of the Rice subsidization program.

Given all this Opposition noise, demonizing an Ag. Subsidy program for motives we all know about, re-confirms the notion that until there is an independent inquiry and analysis, we go in circles.

The Opposition motives were clear in this instance, considering their anti-democratic inclinations. Their posturing is discounted considering those motives.

On the other hand, there are many who have accepted their version so emphatically stated.

If there were a genuine resolve to get an unbiased version, which there is not, this will continue to go in circles.

I'm trying to recall how other mature democracies deal with similar matters...They will have Independent Commissions investigate, or similar processes that have credibility with all sides of the Political divide. Or will have an investigation conducted by a renowned individual accepted by all sides, whose report will be the final determination..........

Otherwise it is difficult to cut through all this political smoke.

[ramrod711]

This article about a suicide has segued into a discussion of the Rice subsidization program.

Given all this Opposition noise, demonizing an Ag. Subsidy program for motives we all know about, re-confirms the notion that until there is an independent inquiry and analysis, we go in circles.

The Opposition motives were clear in this instance, considering their anti-democratic inclinations. Their posturing is discounted considering those motives.

On the other hand, there are many who have accepted their version so emphatically stated.

If there were a genuine resolve to get an unbiased version, which there is not, this will continue to go in circles.

I'm trying to recall how other mature democracies deal with similar matters...They will have Independent Commissions investigate, or similar processes that have credibility with all sides of the Political divide. Or will have an investigation conducted by a renowned individual accepted by all sides, whose report will be the final determination..........

Otherwise it is difficult to cut through all this political smoke.

http://english.cntv.cn/program/bizasia/20140208/101895.shtml keep on spinning, maybe someone will fall for it.

[geriatrickid]

In 2014 a few farmer suicides were reported. The usual group of frothers were fast to blame the PTP and Yingluck.

Using their twisted deficient logic at the time, the Military rulers are to blame for this suicide.

Just as I didn't play the blame game with the government in 2014, it shouldn't be done now.

Except that entirely what you just did!

The farmers were advised months ago that there would not be enough water!

I did not blame the government. Here's where you do a spectacular face plant with your deficient reasoning.

The government controls the water supply through the extensive dams and irrigation canals. With your logic, because the government only allocates water to some farmers, those farmers who cannot access it suffer. Farmers who's only source of support are the crops they grow, have no choice but to farm, otherwise they starve to death. Had this been a PTP government uou would be the first to blame it and offer such inanities as Yingliuck should put on her willies and get out into the field blah blah blah.. Hypocrite.

In 2014 a few farmer suicides were reported. The usual group of frothers were fast to blame the PTP and Yingluck.

Using their twisted deficient logic at the time, the Military rulers are to blame for this suicide.

Just as I didn't play the blame game with the government in 2014, it shouldn't be done now.

Oh kid.. facts you don't like them

Farmers killed themselves because YL did not pay for the rice. She stepped down without making the necessary arrangements (stupidity .. negligence.. criminal.. take your pick) So yes there is blame there

Blaming the government for drought.. no way you can pin that on the government. (unless they mismanaged the drought just like you can mismanage a flood.. guess who did that)

As I mentioned above, drought mitigation is in the hands of the government. Every year, Thailand has floods, and every year there are droughts. You and all the folks agreeing with you were quick to blame Yingluck for everything imaginable. And now here is a situation where the water supply has been mismanaged. Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity. People were complaining about too much water. Now, in less than a year, there is not enough water for farmers. Who's running the shop now? You were quick to vilify the former PM but now, when your hypocritical deficient rationale is held up, you exclaim, oh no, we don't do that, oh no, you are mean for showing us up to be the malicious bullies that we are.

As I have stated I do not blame the government for the mismanagement of the water supply, The same buffoons who ran the rice pledging scheme for the former government also make the decisions for the irrigation. These are also the same incompetents who failed to control the expansion of the rubber plantations. They are called tenured civil servants and they have been in their positions for the past 10-25 years leaving a legacy of ineptitude.

[GaryB1263]

so where are the magical planes that create rain ? or they only fly out when it is heavely clouded so they can claim success for an imminent rain fall ?

Duh you can only seed clouds.. No point going out UNLESS there are the right kind of cloud.

Oh Great! Now Thailand will have to buy A-10 Warthogs for cloud seeding!!!

Thailand should have bought Hogs instead of Harriers. Maybe they would still be flying the Hogs!

[i claudius]

I am sure you can't blame Yingluck and PTP once again......strange no one blame the General....

No problem,in Britain the usual numptys still blame Maggie Thatcher for everything no matter when it happened

[halloween]

As I mentioned above, drought mitigation is in the hands of the government. Every year, Thailand has floods, and every year there are droughts. You and all the folks agreeing with you were quick to blame Yingluck for everything imaginable. And now here is a situation where the water supply has been mismanaged. Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity. People were complaining about too much water. Now, in less than a year, there is not enough water for farmers. Who's running the shop now? You were quick to vilify the former PM but now, when your hypocritical deficient rationale is held up, you exclaim, oh no, we don't do that, oh no, you are mean for showing us up to be the malicious bullies that we are.

As I have stated I do not blame the government for the mismanagement of the water supply, The same buffoons who ran the rice pledging scheme for the former government also make the decisions for the irrigation. These are also the same incompetents who failed to control the expansion of the rubber plantations. They are called tenured civil servants and they have been in their positions for the past 10-25 years leaving a legacy of ineptitude.

Please stop with the casual BS will you. "Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity."

Bhumipol peak level for year 2013 was 7,600 MCM, nowhere near 13,000 capacity. Jan 2014 it peaked at 7,200. Jan 2015 it was 6,000.

Sirikit peal level last year was 6,000 MCM out of a capacity of 9,000.

These are Thailand's 2 largest storage dams.

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

When you open the page, click on the dam to get a 3 year graph in a separate window.

[rametindallas]

I am sure you can't blame Yingluck and PTP once again......strange no one blame the General....

No problem,in Britain the usual numptys still blame Maggie Thatcher for everything no matter when it happened

I blame George Bush for Margaret Thatcher!

[geriatrickid]

Please stop with the casual BS will you. "Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity."

Bhumipol peak level for year 2013 was 7,600 MCM, nowhere near 13,000 capacity. Jan 2014 it peaked at 7,200. Jan 2015 it was 6,000.

Sirikit peal level last year was 6,000 MCM out of a capacity of 9,000.

These are Thailand's 2 largest storage dams.

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

When you open the page, click on the dam to get a 3 year graph in a separate window.

Are you serious?

I still can't believe you rely on 3 years of data. If you want to use data to argue your point, you have to use a bigger data pool. Data is not reliable when it uses only one point in time and a small data pool. I suggest you go back and search the data to find something that supports your claim. Here's why you failed;

1. You are using drought season as the data point. Of course the water levels will be low in drought season. They will be high in monsoon season too. An accurate analysis must include both monsoon and drought season's i.e. encompass 12 months. It gets worse.

2. To avoid argument, I'll accept your use of drought season as a point of comparison. Unfortunately, you also fail to use a large enough data pool.

Let's go back over a decade. Here are the data points for your July date along with who was running the clown shop;

2015 46% Army

2014 47% Army

2013 46% PT

2012 52% PT

2011 59% Demo

2010 46% Demo

2009 60% PP

2008 60% PP

2007 65% Army

2006 64% TRT

2005* 55% TRT

That's the capacity usage for each July except in 2005 where I used August since July was not available. By your logic, we should be singing the praises of the Thaksin aligned Thai Rak Thai and People's Power parties because the water supply was abundant during their time in office. Personally, I know it was because those years had healthy rainfalls. Also water use was lower. Unfortunately, with your logic, we should be condemning the Army because reservoir capacity use was 46%. Personally, I don't blame the Army, but your logic says we should.

3. You are taking theoretical capacity and considering it to be the practical capacity. The reality is that many of the dams were built for power generation, not for irrigation. Other dams were built for aquaculture needs or to prevent salination of rivers and there is a requirement to maintain a water flow. You use Bhumipol as an example. Are you aware that the primary use of that dam and reservoir is for power generation? It has 8 power generating ports for a combined 858 MW. One of the problems of relying on Wikipedia for your info is that the dam's initial motive as an irrigation asset is still shown, even though that is not the case anymore. After the big conversion back in the 1990's, EGAT's show piece became more important as a hydro electric generator. EGAT likes to emphasize all the ancilliary benefits of the dame, because the dam has taken a heavy toll on the region's ecosystem. However, the best part is the declared capacity of 13,462 cubic meters. There is a big caveat. The capacity is for emergency runoff purposes and is subject to the release of water in the days following a deluge. Do you know why? The dam isn't built to hold that amount of water for a long period of time. Using a dam or a reservoir's maximum capacity to compare irrigation storage use is misleading as the capacity will always be overstated. There is indeed capacity, but it is not intended for irrigation water storage purposes. It is intended for emergency flood prevention.

[halloween]

Please stop with the casual BS will you. "Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity."

Bhumipol peak level for year 2013 was 7,600 MCM, nowhere near 13,000 capacity. Jan 2014 it peaked at 7,200. Jan 2015 it was 6,000.

Sirikit peal level last year was 6,000 MCM out of a capacity of 9,000.

These are Thailand's 2 largest storage dams.

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

When you open the page, click on the dam to get a 3 year graph in a separate window.

Are you serious?

I still can't believe you rely on 3 years of data. If you want to use data to argue your point, you have to use a bigger data pool. Data is not reliable when it uses only one point in time and a small data pool. I suggest you go back and search the data to find something that supports your claim. Here's why you failed;

1. You are using drought season as the data point. Of course the water levels will be low in drought season. They will be high in monsoon season too. An accurate analysis must include both monsoon and drought season's i.e. encompass 12 months. It gets worse.

2. To avoid argument, I'll accept your use of drought season as a point of comparison. Unfortunately, you also fail to use a large enough data pool.

Let's go back over a decade. Here are the data points for your July date along with who was running the clown shop;

2015 46% Army

2014 47% Army

2013 46% PT

2012 52% PT

2011 59% Demo

2010 46% Demo

2009 60% PP

2008 60% PP

2007 65% Army

2006 64% TRT

2005* 55% TRT

That's the capacity usage for each July except in 2005 where I used August since July was not available. By your logic, we should be singing the praises of the Thaksin aligned Thai Rak Thai and People's Power parties because the water supply was abundant during their time in office. Personally, I know it was because those years had healthy rainfalls. Also water use was lower. Unfortunately, with your logic, we should be condemning the Army because reservoir capacity use was 46%. Personally, I don't blame the Army, but your logic says we should.

3. You are taking theoretical capacity and considering it to be the practical capacity. The reality is that many of the dams were built for power generation, not for irrigation. Other dams were built for aquaculture needs or to prevent salination of rivers and there is a requirement to maintain a water flow. You use Bhumipol as an example. Are you aware that the primary use of that dam and reservoir is for power generation? It has 8 power generating ports for a combined 858 MW. One of the problems of relying on Wikipedia for your info is that the dam's initial motive as an irrigation asset is still shown, even though that is not the case anymore. After the big conversion back in the 1990's, EGAT's show piece became more important as a hydro electric generator. EGAT likes to emphasize all the ancilliary benefits of the dame, because the dam has taken a heavy toll on the region's ecosystem. However, the best part is the declared capacity of 13,462 cubic meters. There is a big caveat. The capacity is for emergency runoff purposes and is subject to the release of water in the days following a deluge. Do you know why? The dam isn't built to hold that amount of water for a long period of time. Using a dam or a reservoir's maximum capacity to compare irrigation storage use is misleading as the capacity will always be overstated. There is indeed capacity, but it is not intended for irrigation water storage purposes. It is intended for emergency flood prevention.

You could have saved yourself a lot of time, trouble and BS by opening the link. The figures quoted were MAX for the year, and well below the upper limit curves for each dam. In fact Bhumipol has been below the lower curve rule for the last 2.5 years.

BTW why didn't you show me when the dams were "at capacity" which is the claim disputed?

Edited July 4, 2015 by halloween

[BSJ]

Out of desperation a farmer takes his life. Maybe he did it so his wife and family could claim the insurance.....maybe!

[Bannum opinions]

This article about a suicide has segued into a discussion of the Rice subsidization program.

Given all this Opposition noise, demonizing an Ag. Subsidy program for motives we all know about, re-confirms the notion that until there is an independent inquiry and analysis, we go in circles.

The Opposition motives were clear in this instance, considering their anti-democratic inclinations. Their posturing is discounted considering those motives.

On the other hand, there are many who have accepted their version so emphatically stated.

If there were a genuine resolve to get an unbiased version, which there is not, this will continue to go in circles.

I'm trying to recall how other mature democracies deal with similar matters...They will have Independent Commissions investigate, or similar processes that have credibility with all sides of the Political divide. Or will have an investigation conducted by a renowned individual accepted by all sides, whose report will be the final determination..........

Otherwise it is difficult to cut through all this political smoke.

http://english.cntv.cn/program/bizasia/20140208/101895.shtml keep on spinning, maybe someone will fall for it.

Wow, quoting from a Chinese Communist newspaper

Never seen that before.

Raises all sorts of questions.

Normally I don't focus on the messenger, only the message, but in this case, wot's up?

Who reads a Chinese Communist newspaper, other than Chinese...most likely Chinese Communists. And most likely in China.

Unless I have that wrong and Thai people of Chinese descent also read Chinese Communist stuff. And does that explain so much of the anti-democracy inclinations that I see.

So Ramrod711, wot is up with that?

Edited July 4, 2015 by Bannum opinions

[jerojero]

Let's buy submarines! That will benefit a couple hundred sailors. To H. with ten million citizen farmers in need of water and irrigation programs.

[billd766]

Never mind, "We're buying 3 submarines."

Will not buying 3 submarines make it rain?

[billd766]

Here are the facts, not half baked "opinions" http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/16/us-thailand-rice-idUSBREA1F08320140216

It is a waste of time showing the facts to bannum opinions as the only ones that he will accept are the ones that fit with his half baked opinions.

The truth is great but only if it is his version of the truth.

[billd766]

As I mentioned above, drought mitigation is in the hands of the government. Every year, Thailand has floods, and every year there are droughts. You and all the folks agreeing with you were quick to blame Yingluck for everything imaginable. And now here is a situation where the water supply has been mismanaged. Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity. People were complaining about too much water. Now, in less than a year, there is not enough water for farmers. Who's running the shop now? You were quick to vilify the former PM but now, when your hypocritical deficient rationale is held up, you exclaim, oh no, we don't do that, oh no, you are mean for showing us up to be the malicious bullies that we are.

As I have stated I do not blame the government for the mismanagement of the water supply, The same buffoons who ran the rice pledging scheme for the former government also make the decisions for the irrigation. These are also the same incompetents who failed to control the expansion of the rubber plantations. They are called tenured civil servants and they have been in their positions for the past 10-25 years leaving a legacy of ineptitude.

Please stop with the casual BS will you. "Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity."

Bhumipol peak level for year 2013 was 7,600 MCM, nowhere near 13,000 capacity. Jan 2014 it peaked at 7,200. Jan 2015 it was 6,000.

Sirikit peal level last year was 6,000 MCM out of a capacity of 9,000.

These are Thailand's 2 largest storage dams.

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

When you open the page, click on the dam to get a 3 year graph in a separate window.

Thank you very much for that link. It is most useful.

Facts are coming out again which seems to confuse some posters here.

[billd766]

Please stop with the casual BS will you. "Don't forget that last monsoon season the dams were at capacity."

Bhumipol peak level for year 2013 was 7,600 MCM, nowhere near 13,000 capacity. Jan 2014 it peaked at 7,200. Jan 2015 it was 6,000.

Sirikit peal level last year was 6,000 MCM out of a capacity of 9,000.

These are Thailand's 2 largest storage dams.

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

When you open the page, click on the dam to get a 3 year graph in a separate window.

Are you serious?

I still can't believe you rely on 3 years of data. If you want to use data to argue your point, you have to use a bigger data pool. Data is not reliable when it uses only one point in time and a small data pool. I suggest you go back and search the data to find something that supports your claim. Here's why you failed;

1. You are using drought season as the data point. Of course the water levels will be low in drought season. They will be high in monsoon season too. An accurate analysis must include both monsoon and drought season's i.e. encompass 12 months. It gets worse.

2. To avoid argument, I'll accept your use of drought season as a point of comparison. Unfortunately, you also fail to use a large enough data pool.

Let's go back over a decade. Here are the data points for your July date along with who was running the clown shop;

2015 46% Army

2014 47% Army

2013 46% PT

2012 52% PT

2011 59% Demo

2010 46% Demo

2009 60% PP

2008 60% PP

2007 65% Army

2006 64% TRT

2005* 55% TRT

That's the capacity usage for each July except in 2005 where I used August since July was not available. By your logic, we should be singing the praises of the Thaksin aligned Thai Rak Thai and People's Power parties because the water supply was abundant during their time in office. Personally, I know it was because those years had healthy rainfalls. Also water use was lower. Unfortunately, with your logic, we should be condemning the Army because reservoir capacity use was 46%. Personally, I don't blame the Army, but your logic says we should.

3. You are taking theoretical capacity and considering it to be the practical capacity. The reality is that many of the dams were built for power generation, not for irrigation. Other dams were built for aquaculture needs or to prevent salination of rivers and there is a requirement to maintain a water flow. You use Bhumipol as an example. Are you aware that the primary use of that dam and reservoir is for power generation? It has 8 power generating ports for a combined 858 MW. One of the problems of relying on Wikipedia for your info is that the dam's initial motive as an irrigation asset is still shown, even though that is not the case anymore. After the big conversion back in the 1990's, EGAT's show piece became more important as a hydro electric generator. EGAT likes to emphasize all the ancilliary benefits of the dame, because the dam has taken a heavy toll on the region's ecosystem. However, the best part is the declared capacity of 13,462 cubic meters. There is a big caveat. The capacity is for emergency runoff purposes and is subject to the release of water in the days following a deluge. Do you know why? The dam isn't built to hold that amount of water for a long period of time. Using a dam or a reservoir's maximum capacity to compare irrigation storage use is misleading as the capacity will always be overstated. There is indeed capacity, but it is not intended for irrigation water storage purposes. It is intended for emergency flood prevention.

Have you even looked at the link? I did and it goes back 22 YEARS. Not just 3 years or even 10 years but 22 years. There is NO political spin in it at all, simply facts and figures.

YOU are putting the political spin in there.

Have you looked at the rainfall data over the last 10 or 20 years? That is far more important than politics.

Did you take into account how much extra water was used when the PTP bought every grain of rice compared to the 10 or 20 years before that?

Water consumption. and usage is very important as well on a year by year basis. What was the increase in population over those 10 years as more people use more water? If the population increases by 10% then water consumption will increase bt at least 10% and perhaps more.

[geriatrickid]

You could have saved yourself a lot of time, trouble and BS by opening the link. The figures quoted were MAX for the year, and well below the upper limit curves for each dam. In fact Bhumipol has been below the lower curve rule for the last 2.5 years.

BTW why didn't you show me when the dams were "at capacity" which is the claim disputed?

The reservoirs will never be at full capacity in July. July is smack dab in the middle of drought season.

The reservoirs will be in their normal operating capacity in monsoon season.

Using an extreme period in an attempt to illustrate a point is misleading and will always give a false conclusion.

You are using a power generating dam to illustrate your point in respect to irrigation capacity.

The current 46% total water in reservoir is in line with historic use over the past 10 years although it is on the low side, and illustrates only that the military and the Democrats when in power have lower water levels in the reservoirs. If anything, your point would argue that the Democrats and Military are poor water resource managers. I have enough common sense to understand that it is a bit drier than usual, but more importantly, the water flowing into Thailand is reduced. However, the water did not disappear because of the former government. The military has been running the show for 2 dry seasons.

[halloween]

You could have saved yourself a lot of time, trouble and BS by opening the link. The figures quoted were MAX for the year, and well below the upper limit curves for each dam. In fact Bhumipol has been below the lower curve rule for the last 2.5 years.

BTW why didn't you show me when the dams were "at capacity" which is the claim disputed?

The reservoirs will never be at full capacity in July. July is smack dab in the middle of drought season.

The reservoirs will be in their normal operating capacity in monsoon season.

Using an extreme period in an attempt to illustrate a point is misleading and will always give a false conclusion.

You are using a power generating dam to illustrate your point in respect to irrigation capacity.

The current 46% total water in reservoir is in line with historic use over the past 10 years although it is on the low side, and illustrates only that the military and the Democrats when in power have lower water levels in the reservoirs. If anything, your point would argue that the Democrats and Military are poor water resource managers. I have enough common sense to understand that it is a bit drier than usual, but more importantly, the water flowing into Thailand is reduced. However, the water did not disappear because of the former government. The military has been running the show for 2 dry seasons.

The only person quoting July figures is you in some feeble attempt to distract. Using the link I gave you, you can access the DAILY levels. Neither of the 2 largest storage dams were anywhere near "at capacity" last monsoon season or at any other time in the last 2.5 years, and no matter how much bluster and BS you throw around, your casual lie is exposed as just that.

Do try to look at the link, it is most informative. Use the official figures to support your case, if you can, it would be so much credible.

http://www.thaiwater...m_1.php?lang=en

[halloween]

You could have saved yourself a lot of time, trouble and BS by opening the link. The figures quoted were MAX for the year, and well below the upper limit curves for each dam. In fact Bhumipol has been below the lower curve rule for the last 2.5 years.

BTW why didn't you show me when the dams were "at capacity" which is the claim disputed?

The reservoirs will never be at full capacity in July. July is smack dab in the middle of drought season.

The reservoirs will be in their normal operating capacity in monsoon season.

Using an extreme period in an attempt to illustrate a point is misleading and will always give a false conclusion.

You are using a power generating dam to illustrate your point in respect to irrigation capacity.

The current 46% total water in reservoir is in line with historic use over the past 10 years although it is on the low side, and illustrates only that the military and the Democrats when in power have lower water levels in the reservoirs. If anything, your point would argue that the Democrats and Military are poor water resource managers. I have enough common sense to understand that it is a bit drier than usual, but more importantly, the water flowing into Thailand is reduced. However, the water did not disappear because of the former government. The military has been running the show for 2 dry seasons.

The level curves don't lie. From Jan 2012 there was a huge reduction in the levels of Bhumipol and Sirikit to the lower curve levels. Since Oct 2012, both dams dropped below the lower level curve and have been unable to reach it again since, slowly dropping away as outflows exceeded inflows.

The difference in level curves for Bhumipol is 4500 MCM, for Sirikit 3000MCM, water that could have come in quite handy now if Yingluk and co. hadn't panicked and allowed it to run out to sea. Don't open the link, the truth will hurt.

[Jay Sata]

The whole country will continue like this for the future through lack of management and decent government.

The poor farmers are at the bottom of the food chain.

Usually borrowing of the crop before planted and so often exploited by gold shops who charge extortionate rates of interest.

So much for subsistance farming.

It does not work anywhere in the world.

[aussieinthailand]

In 2014 a few farmer suicides were reported. The usual group of frothers were fast to blame the PTP and Yingluck.

Using their twisted deficient logic at the time, the Military rulers are to blame for this suicide.

Just as I didn't play the blame game with the government in 2014, it shouldn't be done now.

Oh kid.. facts you don't like them

Farmers killed themselves because YL did not pay for the rice. She stepped down without making the necessary arrangements (stupidity .. negligence.. criminal.. take your pick) So yes there is blame there

Blaming the government for drought.. no way you can pin that on the government. (unless they mismanaged the drought just like you can mismanage a flood.. guess who did that)

"Oh kid.. facts you don't like them"

Seems it's you who don't like facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just who called on banks that wanted to lend money to the government to pay the famers? Answer the former government.

Now Who called on protesters to threaten any bank that wanted to loan money to the government to pay farmers???? GET A GRIP ON REALITY MATE!!!!!!!!!

[geriatrickid]

Have you even looked at the link? I did and it goes back 22 YEARS. Not just 3 years or even 10 years but 22 years. There is NO political spin in it at all, simply facts and figures.

YOU are putting the political spin in there.

Have you looked at the rainfall data over the last 10 or 20 years? That is far more important than politics.

Did you take into account how much extra water was used when the PTP bought every grain of rice compared to the 10 or 20 years before that?

Water consumption. and usage is very important as well on a year by year basis. What was the increase in population over those 10 years as more people use more water? If the population increases by 10% then water consumption will increase bt at least 10% and perhaps more.

Yes, I looked at the link. I even went back 10 years. I am the one pointing out that one can not take 2.5 years and use the data for the month of July as an indication other than the water in the reservoirs in July. I had a good laugh when you told me to go back 20 years. Know what? There isn't complete data from 20 years ago. The take away conclusion is that you didn't go and look. Nice. Don't criticize me if you don't do the legwork.

I am not putting a political spin on this. I don't blame any PM for the lower amounts of water in peak dry season. I have however, pointed out that wonder boy's logic would have one blaming the current government for the current low reserves because the military was running things in July 2015 and July 2014.

In respect to your claim that the PTP was buying every grain of rice compared to 10 or 20 years before that is not supported by the data. You are telling me to go and look at the amount of water in the reservoirs. I did just that for 10 years. I even posted the numbers for the past 10 years.

The water in the reservoirs at peak drought period during the 2 years of rice pledging wasn't much different than the two prior years under the Democrat government. Had it not been for an unusually heavy monsoon season in 2011, the water levels would have been lower.

You claim the water consumption would have increased 10% or more. Well, if that was the case, why doesn't the water in the reservoir show a difference of 10% or more? Have fun fudging the data to try and support your spurious argument.

07-2013 46% PT

07- 2012 52% PT

07 -2011 59% Demo

07- 2010 46% Demo

Instead of telling me to go and look at the numbers from 10 years ago, follow your own advice. The data does not support your claim. Show me how your claim is supported. If you had a valid point, we should see significantly lower water in the reservoirs in dry season during the rice pledging program period. The data does not show that.

Edited July 5, 2015 by geriatrickid

[Yunla]

RIP poor gentleman, my prayers are with his family at this time.

It is sad to see some posters immediately making political traction over what is basically a lack of rain, and existing long-term failings in the infrastructure and support-systems in poor working communities. Comparisons to farmer suicides during Yingluck era are a very cheap partisan move, as the problem for those farmers was that they didn't get paid for over a year. Also Yingluck sold her electoral profile as a rural Robin Hood, she was going to be the saviour of agrarian workers, this was her big selling point pre-election. Then her rice scheme, poor farmers waiting over a year for money, some of them tragically found the pressure too much.

The current govt never made any such Robin Hood claims, and the current problems are lack of rain and serious long-term failings in infrastructure and support. These latter problems are not a partisan political issue, they are long-term failings that were never addressed by any political leaders, and should be prioritised by future leaders not only to prevent these tragedies in poor agrarian communities but also for national prosperity and security in the future.

[chrisrazz]

Out of desperation a farmer takes his life. Maybe he did it so his wife and family could claim the insurance.....maybe!

What? The insurance that will pay for his crop input costs (borrowed from a double dipping sino/thai merchant) or cover up to 75% of his funeral and wake expenses. Dream on. This is the problem with the 'let them eat cake' subsistence notion prevalent amongst elitists. It makes no account for drought or deluge. Educate and skill the masses, the country will be better equipped for the future, and, have a wider population engaged in the economy. The only problem with this is that as people have a greater influence in their own destiny they are less likely to fall prey to the all powerful elitist manipulators.

[billd766]

Have you even looked at the link? I did and it goes back 22 YEARS. Not just 3 years or even 10 years but 22 years. There is NO political spin in it at all, simply facts and figures.

YOU are putting the political spin in there.

Have you looked at the rainfall data over the last 10 or 20 years? That is far more important than politics.

Did you take into account how much extra water was used when the PTP bought every grain of rice compared to the 10 or 20 years before that?

Water consumption. and usage is very important as well on a year by year basis. What was the increase in population over those 10 years as more people use more water? If the population increases by 10% then water consumption will increase bt at least 10% and perhaps more.

Yes, I looked at the link. I even went back 10 years. I am the one pointing out that one can not take 2.5 years and use the data for the month of July as an indication other than the water in the reservoirs in July. I had a good laugh when you told me to go back 20 years. Know what? There isn't complete data from 20 years ago. The take away conclusion is that you didn't go and look. Nice. Don't criticize me if you don't do the legwork.

I am not putting a political spin on this. I don't blame any PM for the lower amounts of water in peak dry season. I have however, pointed out that wonder boy's logic would have one blaming the current government for the current low reserves because the military was running things in July 2015 and July 2014.

In respect to your claim that the PTP was buying every grain of rice compared to 10 or 20 years before that is not supported by the data. You are telling me to go and look at the amount of water in the reservoirs. I did just that for 10 years. I even posted the numbers for the past 10 years.

The water in the reservoirs at peak drought period during the 2 years of rice pledging wasn't much different than the two prior years under the Democrat government. Had it not been for an unusually heavy monsoon season in 2011, the water levels would have been lower.

You claim the water consumption would have increased 10% or more. Well, if that was the case, why doesn't the water in the reservoir show a difference of 10% or more? Have fun fudging the data to try and support your spurious argument.

07-2013 46% PT

07- 2012 52% PT

07 -2011 59% Demo

07- 2010 46% Demo

Instead of telling me to go and look at the numbers from 10 years ago, follow your own advice. The data does not support your claim. Show me how your claim is supported. If you had a valid point, we should see significantly lower water in the reservoirs in dry season during the rice pledging program period. The data does not show that.

If you don't like that link then try this one.

http://www.tmd.go.th/en/climate.php?FileID=7

Unfortunately it only goes up to 2012.

I believe it show a trend of El Nino and La Nina and the cycling times of both.

It shows that in 2011 there was a large excess of rainfall which coincided with the PTP rice planting saga. 2011 was a good year for the dams to fill up as they had 5 years to do so. Since 2011 there has been less rainfall every year so having emptied FAR too much water from the dams in 2012 there has not been enough rainfall to replenish the supplies for the dams.

It was a political decision to lower the water levels too far in 2012 and a faulty one at that. Now the whole country is suffering from political ineptness.