SURVEY: Should Thailand legalize gay Marriage?

[Jingthing]

Many gay couples have children naturally.

With gay men, one of the men may have been married to a woman previously.

Or perhaps a sister raising a kid alone dies and makes arrangements with her gay brother.

I've known many gay men with biological children that way, mostly previous marriages.

True, usually the mother ends of raising such kids ... but what if she dies or runs off?

Also with lesbian couples, of course they can birth their own children with a little help from their friends, sperm, and often they do.

Adoption is another matter.

Yes true same sex marriage equality does include the same rights in parenting and adoption.

Of course often countries legislate "sort of" equality and restrict parenting rights for same sex couples.

Anything is possible with laws.
So we're getting into details here.

Legalizing same sex marriage does not necessarily mean full equality in all matters ... that's up to the legal systems.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[NoshowJones]

Yes, but it's clear that Thailand is going to go with the pussyfooting option first -- legalizing same sex civil unions. Probably within the next 5 or 10 years.

If homosexual "marriage" is ever made legal in Thailand, what will become of the ladyboys? Will they start to marry each other?

Would homosexuals from other countries flock to Thailand and marry the LBs? That would be good for the Thai economy.

The LBs with the operation would be in big demand from the ones without, they could have it both ways, and then there will be a lot of fighting on Soi 4.

[Jingthing]

Yes, but it's clear that Thailand is going to go with the pussyfooting option first -- legalizing same sex civil unions. Probably within the next 5 or 10 years.

If homosexual "marriage" is ever made legal in Thailand, what will become of the ladyboys? Will they start to marry each other?

Would homosexuals from other countries flock to Thailand and marry the LBs? That would be good for the Thai economy.

The LBs with the operation would be in big demand from the ones without, they could have it both ways, and then there will be a lot of fighting on Soi 4.

You're just trying to make this sober subject a sleazy prurient sex obsessed subject.

This is a serious matter for GLBT people but to you it's a big joke.

The answer OBVIOUSLY is that legalizing SAME SEX marriage would mean any two adults of any official gender (and any psychological gender as with transgender people their actual self perceived gender may be different than their official I.D. card gender) may be allowed to marry.

Breaking this down:

Any two adult males

Any two adult females

One adult male and one adult female

Transgender people easily included above as EVERYONE has a legal I.D. gender (whether they agree with it or not).

Also yes, sure, some transgender people might marry each other if that's what they want to do.

If both of their I.D. cards said male it would technically be a "same sex" marriage.

If one had changed their I.D. card to female (not yet possible in Thailand from what I understand) then it would be technically be an opposite sex marriage.

As far visas and foreigners ... that's up to the Thai government whether to treat same sex marriages equally to opposite sex marriages in regards to immigration matters. Another case of full equality vs. potential equality with conditions. All possible with laws.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[NoshowJones]

Yes, but it's clear that Thailand is going to go with the pussyfooting option first -- legalizing same sex civil unions. Probably within the next 5 or 10 years.

If homosexual "marriage" is ever made legal in Thailand, what will become of the ladyboys? Will they start to marry each other?

Would homosexuals from other countries flock to Thailand and marry the LBs? That would be good for the Thai economy.

The LBs with the operation would be in big demand from the ones without, they could have it both ways, and then there will be a lot of fighting on Soi 4.

You're just trying to make this sober subject a sleazy prurient sex obsessed subject.

This is a serious matter for GLBT people but to you it's a big joke.

The answer OBVIOUSLY is that legalizing SAME SEX marriage would mean any two adults of any official gender (and any psychological gender as with transgender people their actual self perceived gender may be different than their official I.D. card gender) may be allowed to marry.

Breaking this down:

Any two adult males

Any two adult female

One adult male and one adult female

Transgender people easily included above as EVERYONE has a legal I.D. gender (whether they agree with it or not).

Also yes, sure, some transgender people might marry each other if that's what they want to do.

As far visas and foreigners ... that's up to the Thai government whether to true same sex marriages equally to opposite sex marriages in regards to immigration matters. Another case of full equality vs. potential equality with conditions. All possible with laws.

Just trying to make things a little bit lighthearted JT.

[JockPieandBeans]

No apology needed. The OP made a direct comparison with the US, I added the West as I did not want to construed as yank bashing.

Do you not think that your view of either being for it / or against it, is a very narrow minded viewpoint ?

Personally, I am neither for or against ANY marriage, gay or straight. A bit of paper does not mean that much to me, on the other hand, it will mean a great deal to others.

As a Westerner living in Thailand, I think it is an issue for the Thai's to discuss, dissect and come up with a plan. I also think that whatever has happened in the US / West should not have a bearing on whatever decision Thailand comes up with.

There is no doubt that there are Western gay men in Thailand. I would think that some have already commented on this very thread. Some may well even be in long term relationships.

Genuine question.

If Thailand were to not legalise gay marriage.

Would it really have a dramatic effect on your life, and if so, why ?

For me personally, since I'm not gay, a ruling either way would have no impact on me. But I do feel that everyone is entitled to equal rights. So from that perspective, gays should not be discriminated against on the issue of marriage (or anything else). If an American gay married couple were to move to Thailand, I'd imagine there would be significant impact on them if the Thai government did not recognize their marriage. And not just the USA. As more and more countries move to legalize same-sex marriage, it would be a real problem/mess if Thailand did not.

Why do you feel the need to impose your POV on other Countries ?

Unless that said gay couple from America, were dual Thai Citizens, it would no impact on them if the Thai Government did not recognise their marriage. Unless of course you know something that I do not. So I fail to see how it would have any effect on them. As they have next to no rights in Thailand anyway.

In all my dealings with Immigration etc, I cannot recall a time when I was ever asked about my sexuality.

Would same said couple be quite happy to go to Uganda / Saudi etc and demand that their totally legal American wedding be accepted there ? If not, why not ?

Does Thailand have a real problem / mess now ? So how would it have a real problem / mess if it did not legalise gay marriage ?

As I previously said. It is for Thai's to dissect, discuss and come to a decision. What we Westerners would like to happen does not come into the equation.

Edited July 13, 2015 by JockPieandBeans

[Hornyskunk]

Hey, sometimes governments do good things. I voted for the full legalization of marijuana in Colorado and it actually passed. I am still shocked.

What ?? Colorado here we come.....

You didn't know that? We should start a new poll: Should Thailand legalize marijuana?

[Jingthing]

Thailand is much closer to legal same sex marriage than legal pot.

[luk AJ]

Correction on my previous post...right, but if a nation is idolizing a religion which DOES At the same time support gay marriage, I call this hypocrisy. I am personally not against religion or gay people but I just want to point out this is clear hypocrisy in exchange for votes. In my opinion this is treason to one of the two fundamentals.

[rijit]

My only question is ,why do so many homosexual people have to flaunt their sexuality? ? why in Goss name cant they just go on witht their lives like us hetrosexuals do . we dont have a special flag ,or a familly pride march ,mind you the Russians have just come out with a familly pride picture ,fighting back maybe,lol

by the way i do believe their should be some sort of contract between same sex couples ,that is binding ,but marriage and kids ,sorry no to that ,if nature had intended same sex couples to have children it would have allowed it . and thats not hate ,just common sense .

Plenty of heteros flaunt their sexuality.

And dont mind women 'flaunting it' either. I' m not particulary into its asthetics, but men should be allowed the choise. And gay marriage ? absolutely totally a good thing, no negs. Win win all around.

rijit

[Alwyn]

who cares, marriage is a farce anyway. "Married before the eyes of God" How about "Married before the eyes of Spiderman"? They're both about as real as each other in that they come from books.... How do Kateoys figure in this? How do a-sexual people go about getting married?

right, but if a nation is idolizing a religion which does not support gay marriage, I call this hypocrisy. I am personally not against religion or gay people but just want to point out this clear hypocrisy in exchange for votes. In my opinion this is treason to one of the two fundamentals.

As it happens, I am personally against religion, it's the longest running scam in history! In the words of Robert Heinlein; "I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith - it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe. [Robert Heinlein, Jubal Harshaw inStranger in a Strange Land]"

[rijit]

Correction on my previous post...right, but if a nation is idolizing a religion which DOES At the same time support gay marriage, I call this hypocrisy. I am personally not against religion or gay people but I just want to point out this is clear hypocrisy in exchange for votes. In my opinion this is treason to one of the two fundamentals.

Jeez.

I've read and wrote some.convoluted crap in my time but this post takes the.biscuit.

rijit

[Aussie123]

Just the fact that its taken this long 2015 for US to legalize it says it all. in my humble opinion, Marriage is for a man and a woman. and if people decide to be gay , they should not be allowed the right to have children!

[AYJAYDEE]

Just the fact that its taken this long 2015 for US to legalize it says it all. in my humble opinion, Marriage is for a man and a woman. and if people decide to be gay , they should not be allowed the right to have children!

DECIDES to be gay??? lol

[Soutpeel]

Given the roots of marriage are based in religious doctrine, and as far as i am aware most of the scriptures condem homosexuality either directly or in directly, it follows that marrige between homosexual parties should not be recognised

This is would be my thought process from a comitted athiest who doent really care one way or the other as it doesnt affect me

[Jingthing]

Most nation states are not theocracies so marriage can be under CIVIL LAW in most countries.

Some countries have some theocratic aspects.

I reckon Thailand does have some theocratic aspects, and that would be Buddhism.

So I suppose it is relevant what Thai Buddhist dogma says about gay people.

[luk AJ]

Correction on my previous post...right, but if a nation is idolizing a religion which DOES At the same time support gay marriage, I call this hypocrisy. I am personally not against religion or gay people but I just want to point out this is clear hypocrisy in exchange for votes. In my opinion this is treason to one of the two fundamentals.

Jeez.

I've read and wrote some.convoluted crap in my time but this post takes the.biscuit.

rijit

dear Rijt, a person cannot at the same time preach the word of God and allow same sex marriage. Same with abortion. You should also learn to keep your posts polite. Other members can have other opinions but I hope that besides your hollow words, you are member of the human race...

[Mudcrab]

Yes, but it's clear that Thailand is going to go with the pussyfooting option first -- legalizing same sex civil unions. Probably within the next 5 or 10 years.

If homosexual "marriage" is ever made legal in Thailand, what will become of the ladyboys? Will they start to marry each other?

Would homosexuals from other countries flock to Thailand and marry the LBs? That would be good for the Thai economy.

The LBs with the operation would be in big demand from the ones without, they could have it both ways, and then there will be a lot of fighting on Soi 4.

You're just trying to make this sober subject a sleazy prurient sex obsessed subject.

This is a serious matter for GLBT people but to you it's a big joke.

The answer OBVIOUSLY is that legalizing SAME SEX marriage would mean any two adults of any official gender (and any psychological gender as with transgender people their actual self perceived gender may be different than their official I.D. card gender) may be allowed to marry.

Breaking this down:

Any two adult males

Any two adult females

One adult male and one adult female

Transgender people easily included above as EVERYONE has a legal I.D. gender (whether they agree with it or not).

Also yes, sure, some transgender people might marry each other if that's what they want to do.

If both of their I.D. cards said male it would technically be a "same sex" marriage.

If one had changed their I.D. card to female (not yet possible in Thailand from what I understand) then it would be technically be an opposite sex marriage.

As far visas and foreigners ... that's up to the Thai government whether to treat same sex marriages equally to opposite sex marriages in regards to immigration matters. Another case of full equality vs. potential equality with conditions. All possible with laws.

People really need to think this through or they well be unintended consequences.

Breaking this down:

Any two adult males...........two brothers or father and son...grandfather and grandson?

Any two adult females.........similar to above

One adult male and one adult female.......father and daughter....grandfather and granddaughter? This is particularly worrying. Many societies recognised the dangers of inbreeding many,many generations ago and made it taboo.

Is the suggestion now to allow this?

Why not push for polygamy as well......keep the Muslims/Mormons and others happy as well.

If we need to keep all minority groups happy why not drop the age of consent and keep the pedophiles happy as well?

[Hornyskunk]

DECIDES to be gay??? lol

Yes, gay people decide to be gay.

I don't like this BS about some kind of biological programming which forces someone to be gay. When I was 13, I felt my biology was forcing me to hump anything with a vagina, yet I chose not to. If an insanely horny 13-year-old can make the conscious decision to masturbate rather than have sex with the class slut, then anyone can, gay or straight. Anyone can choose abstinence. I don't recommend it, but please don't have sex with someone and then tell the world that you couldn't have avoided it just because you were born that way.

Tell the truth: I am a man/woman and I chose to have sex with a man/woman because that's what I like and that is my right!

I wish I could use the excuse that my biology forces me to smoke weed in order to be happy. Unfortunately, as humans, our brains give us near total control over our natural urges.

[h90]

No thailand should forget about marriage at all:

Marriage at temples without any legal meaning.

Everything else should be done in private contracts with the government gives some recommendations for contracts which are proofed to be good for most people.

It is not the governments duty to ban or allow some marriage

[rgs2001uk]

Correction on my previous post...right, but if a nation is idolizing a religion which DOES At the same time support gay marriage, I call this hypocrisy. I am personally not against religion or gay people but I just want to point out this is clear hypocrisy in exchange for votes. In my opinion this is treason to one of the two fundamentals.

Jeez.

I've read and wrote some.convoluted crap in my time but this post takes the.biscuit.

rijit

dear Rijt, a person cannot at the same time preach the word of God and allow same sex marriage. Same with abortion. You should also learn to keep your posts polite. Other members can have other opinions but I hope that besides your hollow words, you are member of the human race...

Not every person, religion or country follows the teaching of the Church of Rome or follows the dogma of American religious groups.

I know plenty of Christains who have no problems with abortion or gay marriage, they wouldnt consider themselves hypocrites, for the simple reason they dont follow the schools of thought mentioned above.

[luk AJ]

Correction on my previous post...right, but if a nation is idolizing a religion which DOES At the same time support gay marriage, I call this hypocrisy. I am personally not against religion or gay people but I just want to point out this is clear hypocrisy in exchange for votes. In my opinion this is treason to one of the two fundamentals.

Jeez.

I've read and wrote some.convoluted crap in my time but this post takes the.biscuit.

rijit

dear Rijt, a person cannot at the same time preach the word of God and allow same sex marriage. Same with abortion. You should also learn to keep your posts polite. Other members can have other opinions but I hope that besides your hollow words, you are member of the human race...

Not every person, religion or country follows the teaching of the Church of Rome or follows the dogma of American religious groups.

I know plenty of Christains who have no problems with abortion or gay marriage, they wouldnt consider themselves hypocrites, for the simple reason they dont follow the schools of thought mentioned above.

This answer, I can appreciate, but I don't believe the Pope conciders your references "true Christians" I am not a Christian nor am I gay I just don't like that leaders such as Obama try to please both which in my opinion is a contradiction in terminis.

[Berkshire]

People really need to think this through or they well be unintended consequences.

Breaking this down:

Any two adult males...........two brothers or father and son...grandfather and grandson?

Any two adult females.........similar to above

One adult male and one adult female.......father and daughter....grandfather and granddaughter? This is particularly worrying. Many societies recognised the dangers of inbreeding many,many generations ago and made it taboo.

Is the suggestion now to allow this?

Why not push for polygamy as well......keep the Muslims/Mormons and others happy as well.

If we need to keep all minority groups happy why not drop the age of consent and keep the pedophiles happy as well?

Those are some ridiculous examples which have been debunked long ago. How about father/daughter then, without even discussing gay marriage? There is no push from anyone to legalize incest or polygamy or sex with children or sex with animals, etc, etc. The only ones who ever bring it up are the anti-gay marriage brigade.

[soupsong]

The big issue with this for me is that if I were able to marry / register marriage to my Thai partner of 15 years, it would make quite a difference to the visa situation re. my retirement in Thailand. One big difference between the retirement visa and the 'married' visa is the financial requirements, and another is the ability to work. Someone told me it may in fact be possible to register a same-sex marriage, but I very much doubt if that would satisfy immigration. Does anyone know the exact legal situation on this?

[Jingthing]

The big issue with this for me is that if I were able to marry / register marriage to my Thai partner of 15 years, it would make quite a difference to the visa situation re. my retirement in Thailand. One big difference between the retirement visa and the 'married' visa is the financial requirements, and another is the ability to work. Someone told me it may in fact be possible to register a same-sex marriage, but I very much doubt if that would satisfy immigration. Does anyone know the exact legal situation on this?

You're out of luck.

It would not be recognized as a marriage by Thai immigration.

Also legal marriages done abroad to Thai nationals ALSO would not be recognized under Thai law, including immigration law.

These are the kinds of things that might eventually nudge Thailand towards marriage equality, as your "less than" legal situation here may indeed negatively impact on a Thai national.

[luk AJ]

People really need to think this through or they well be unintended consequences.

Breaking this down:

Any two adult males...........two brothers or father and son...grandfather and grandson?

Any two adult females.........similar to above

One adult male and one adult female.......father and daughter....grandfather and granddaughter? This is particularly worrying. Many societies recognised the dangers of inbreeding many,many generations ago and made it taboo.

Is the suggestion now to allow this?

Why not push for polygamy as well......keep the Muslims/Mormons and others happy as well.

If we need to keep all minority groups happy why not drop the age of consent and keep the pedophiles happy as well?

Those are some ridiculous examples which have been debunked long ago. How about father/daughter then, without even discussing gay marriage? There is no push from anyone to legalize incest or polygamy or sex with children or sex with animals, etc, etc. The only ones who ever bring it up are the anti-gay marriage brigade.

Are you for gay marriage but against Polygamy?? Why should gay marriage be allowed and Polygamy punished?

[Jingthing]

This topic is about same sex marriage.

Same sex civil unions have already been actively considered by the Thai government.

The topic IS NOT about polygamy.

Maybe wait until that is really a credible issue in Thailand before trying to hijack this thread towards there.

[troy]

My only question is ,why do so many homosexual people have to flaunt their sexuality?

If you don't think straight people do the same I have trouble believing you've ever been to Thailand.

[luk AJ]

This topic is about same sex marriage.

Same sex civil unions have already been actively considered by the Thai government.

The topic IS NOT about polygamy.

Maybe wait until that is really a credible issue in Thailand before trying to hijack this thread towards there.

In Polygamy there are multiple wifes who could be lesbian..

[MockingJay]

I wonder when the day will come that some dogooder activist will climb out of his closet and demand that all electrical plugs and sockets shall be made "asexual", neither male nor female so that nobody could be offended by them being either male or female in this ongoing gender gaganess...

[Jingthing]

I wonder when the day will come that some dogooder activist will climb out of his closet and demand that all electrical plugs and sockets shall be made "asexual", neither male nor female so that nobody could be offended by them being either male or female in this ongoing gender gaganess...

Ridiculous. Nothing to do with gay marriage.