Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[StealthEnergiser]

[thailandchilli]

[stephenterry]

GB d

[cdnvic]

It actually makes for interesting reading when people are not attacking each other. (Mostly )

Thanks for keeping it civil everyone.

Spoke too soon.

(two more gone)

[IslandLover]

As Thailandchilli indicated, the defence team including Andy Hall are working for free in this case (pro bono).

I've read near all posts in this thread and I haven't come across one that has made mention of a personal donation to help support this case.

I've just had communications with Andy Hall and made a donation.

As I understand he, as with the defence team, are engaging in this case with every effort and resource available.

The British FCO are wishing for a fair and transparent trial but are prevented from having direct input. Therefore, we have a chance to provide assistance.

Irrespective of your views in this case, it is possible to have a direct effect on fairness and transparency.

Impartiality is questionable as evidenced thus far. Financial support for the defence is required. Would it not be satisfying to know you may just help bring fairness to this case.

Give it some thought.

Yes, I made a small donation initially. Put my money where my mouth is - i.e. supporting the B2's defence.

If it's not bad enough that some on here are questioning the integrity of Andy Hall, now we are being accused of not contributing to the defence fund if we believe the B2 to be innocent. Well I HAVE, but you won't find my name on the list of donors as I chose to remain anonymous. I believe giving money in this way is a private and personal matter and it should remain so. I imagine there are other posters on ThaiVisa who have donated but they don't wish to broadcast the fact.

[missexpat]

As Thailandchilli indicated, the defence team including Andy Hall are working for free in this case (pro bono).

I've read near all posts in this thread and I haven't come across one that has made mention of a personal donation to help support this case.

I've just had communications with Andy Hall and made a donation.

As I understand he, as with the defence team, are engaging in this case with every effort and resource available.

The British FCO are wishing for a fair and transparent trial but are prevented from having direct input. Therefore, we have a chance to provide assistance.

Irrespective of your views in this case, it is possible to have a direct effect on fairness and transparency.

Impartiality is questionable as evidenced thus far. Financial support for the defence is required. Would it not be satisfying to know you may just help bring fairness to this case.

Give it some thought.

Yes, I made a small donation initially. Put my money where my mouth is - i.e. supporting the B2's defence.

If it's not bad enough that some on here are questioning the integrity of Andy Hall, now we are being accused of not contributing to the defence fund if we believe the B2 to be innocent. Well I HAVE, but you won't find my name on the list of donors as I chose to remain anonymous. I believe giving money in this way is a private and personal matter and it should remain so. I imagine there are other posters on ThaiVisa who have donated but they don't wish to broadcast the fact.

Well said madame, agree it is a personal matter and more so i find it appalling that people question the integrity of Andy Hall, certainly a man with a passion for Human Rights and should be applauded accordingly.

Edited July 21, 2015 by missexpat

[IslandLover]

As Thailandchilli indicated, the defence team including Andy Hall are working for free in this case (pro bono).

I've read near all posts in this thread and I haven't come across one that has made mention of a personal donation to help support this case.

I've just had communications with Andy Hall and made a donation.

As I understand he, as with the defence team, are engaging in this case with every effort and resource available.

The British FCO are wishing for a fair and transparent trial but are prevented from having direct input. Therefore, we have a chance to provide assistance.

Irrespective of your views in this case, it is possible to have a direct effect on fairness and transparency.

Impartiality is questionable as evidenced thus far. Financial support for the defence is required. Would it not be satisfying to know you may just help bring fairness to this case.

Give it some thought.

Yes, I made a small donation initially. Put my money where my mouth is - i.e. supporting the B2's defence.

If it's not bad enough that some on here are questioning the integrity of Andy Hall, now we are being accused of not contributing to the defence fund if we believe the B2 to be innocent. Well I HAVE, but you won't find my name on the list of donors as I chose to remain anonymous. I believe giving money in this way is a private and personal matter and it should remain so. I imagine there are other posters on ThaiVisa who have donated but they don't wish to broadcast the fact.

Well said sir, agree it is a personal matter and more so i find it appalling that people question the integrity of Andy Hall, certainly a man with a passion for Human Rights and should be applauded accordingly.

@missexpat - I'm a Madam not a Sir

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[GOLDBUGGY]

Goldbuggy, what about 'refusing to hand over CCTV footage' do you not understand? Police may or may not have asked for that footage. If they didn't ask for it, then it's par for the course in this case, of numerous RTP screw-ups. If cops did ask for it and were refused and left it at that, then cops should be disciplined for dereliction of duty, and Mon should be indicted for obstructing justice in a serious crime. Either way, those tapes will never be seen. It all fits with the RTP wanting no discussion or investigation of what transpired in the hours before the murders - particularly at the beach party bars: In Touch, and AC and AC2. It only adds to the mountains of potential evidence that RTP either

>>> didn't think to look for

>>> found, but trashed because it would implicate the people they're supposed to shield

>>> intentionally mis-diagnosed for public consumption (example: Mon shown in Running Man videos)

>>> thought to look for, but did a shoddy job, either intentionally or by being inept.

Some of the dozens of things the cops screwed up about:

>>> didn't look for bloody clothes outside the crime scene and didn't inspect nearby laundry facilities

>>> didn't thoroughly look at Mon's or the Headman's premises

>>> disregarded anything which happened at the bars

>>> didn't look for phone records

>>> didn't use sniffer dogs

>>> allowed Mon to prance all over the crime scene (maybe part of that can be excused, because Mon was within the crime scene in the hours before cops arrived)

>>> allowed people to handle evidence without rubber gloves

>>> didn't have qualified people doing forensics

>>> misdiagnosed David's wounds

>>> possibly misdiagmosed Hannah's wounds

>>> lied about DNA

....shall I go on?

Incidentally, the next days' of court will focus mostly on what happened at the 'safe house' and in the 2 to 3 days after, mostly re; what Burmese were pressured into admitting. Stay tuned. RTP are guaranteed to continue showing their colors.

Everything you state as facts before "need I go on" is supposition based on bias

The five highlighted sections are factual, whatever bias you want to put on it. If in doubt, refer to Ms Porntip's comments re forensic failings. The last one (DNA falsehood) is contestable, but the fact remains that the key DNA samples are not available for retesting despite the police chief's assertion that they had not lost anything.

I'm sure Boom had added others that could or should be brought out in court, and I agree, they are important questions to resolve..

So if only 5 are what you called "Facts" then I gather the rest is just Bull-shit then and I will throw them in the Bull-shit Pile.

Okay? Lets' check Your "Facts"

Sniffer Dogs?

I can't see what the Sniffer Dogs would do on the beach, besides having a good Poopoo, when the Crime Scene is covered in 2 feet of water after the Tide came in.

Mon on the crime scene?

The Media Reported the bodies were discovered by beach cleaners, but if it was the gardener no difference, as they both would have worked for Mon and his hotel or the bar.

Now if some excited migrant worker came running to you all excited and said in broken English he found bodies on the beach what would you do? Well before I would call the Police and possibly make a fool out of myself.I would go and look for myself first. Which I gather this is what he would do also.

Since the bodies were behind rocks, he would need to enter the crime scene to see for himself. Or do you think a partial blind migrant beach cleaner, or gardener would call the Police before he talked to his boss first, who he knew was nearby?

Allowed People to handle evidence without rubber gloves?

The only instances I can think of is first the the Hoe. The gardener went to get his hoe as he needed it. He did not know it could be a possible murder weapon at that time so he handled it the same way as he always did. This does not qualify that they allowed him to do this. He just did what he normally did each day. I believe it was Mon and the Police who asked the Gardener to put on gloves before returning the hoe, which contradicts your "Fact" also.

David Millers Body was perhaps the second instance and handled without gloves. I don't no for sure. But either way I don't see much choice they had then. The Tide was coming in and they either had to move him or risk that he would be swept away, and taken out to sea. If there is more it will be answered in you next "Fact".

Didn't have qualified people doing Forensics?

If you mean the crime scene I already explained that in an early post but for you I will give you the shorter version.

People here tend to like to compare this case to a case involving the FBI investigating a case in New York City, or Scotland Yard in London. What they tend to forget is that these double murders and rape took place on a small remote island that has a population of about 2,000 People and a Total Police Force of 5 people.

How much training do you think they have in securing a Crime Scene and if so how long ago? How many Double Murders and Rapes do you think they handle every year? What is the size of their S.W.A.T. Team on the Island? The highest ranking Police Officer on the Island was on the stand and when asked by the Defense he said he was involved with 2 rapes but not including a murder in his Life-time. That should indicate the rest of the Police Men and there experience.

How long would it take to get a Profession Investigative Team together in Bangkok, with approval from the higher ups, plus all the equipment and supplies you are going to need? Then get from Bangkok to a remote island and unload everything then get to the Crime Scene? Have they even a place for them to all stay that night and sleep? Would you go if you had to sleep in the Jungle? Would you send your men to do that?

My point is Professional help was a long way off and since the Tide was coming in they had to do something quickly or risk losing all the evidence and maybe even the bodies. That is also why they asked for help from ordinary people. But then you would probably think all this was all staged to.

Lied about DNA?

They never did and that has never been proven anywhere, so this is not a "Fact" at all. So I will just throw that one in the Bull-shit Pile.

[missexpat]

@IslandLover

ooopps, please accept my apologies.... sorry

Edited July 21, 2015 by missexpat

[StealthEnergiser]

[eliotness]

So you say the prosecution has about 62 witnesses to call. 62 witnesses ! Was there a grandstand set up next to the beach ? I actually do understand what you are trying to say, but please choose your words more carefully otherwise you'll lose the debate on just technicalities rather than facts.

I think people like police pathologists, crime scene experts etc might be included in the number could be wrong though

Yes, I am sure many are. So I have no idea what this guy is talking about a grandstand.

Last I saw reported by the Media was 65 Witnesses for the Prosecution and 20 for the Defense.

You would think if someone were to call you a liar that he would at least present something that says different. But this place has degraded so much with these guys that it doesn't matter what they think they know you get attacked for being different then them. They twist the truth and what has been said into the opposite. They attack the know evidence and you when it is presented but never present any evidence of there own.

They scream for free speech, but don't want anyone else to talk who does not agree with them. They scream for a fair trial and transparency but don't allow anyone else to present their case. They scream for justice but yet they are ready to Lynch several people who are not even on trial and drag there name into the dirt.

This has got to be the largest collection of Hypocrites I have ever had the displeasure of meeting here.

I hope they shut this site down until after the trial. At least then this site would be fair for all.

65 reluctant witnesses

MR GB what I meant was 65 "witnesses" seems a heck of a lot, especially as there were no actual witnesses to the crime. It would appear the prosecution is just filling up the courts time, smoke and mirrors !

I suppose I could say the same thing about the Defense having 20 Witnesses as well. Or as we have been told by the Media. If we all sat down together and tried to figure out who these 85 Witness are, we might get quite a few but I doubt we could name more than half If that many. We certainly don't know what they are going to say now either.

So all this tells me is that there is a lot of evidence and witnesses on both sides we do not know about yet as it hasn't been presented yet. So drawing a conclusion now seems a bit premature. So opinions are just opinions at this stage.

Agreed, opinions are just opinions. Let's see what the next round of this drama, based on such a horrible crime, gives us to chew on.

[evadgib]

On the donation front there's also a chain of thought among fellow Countrymen who would rather contribute towards costs incurred by the parents rather than help fund the defence of those who might just have murdered their children....

There's certainly less likelyhood of being wrong this way.

Edited July 21, 2015 by evadgib

[glenmohr]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.

I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.

I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?

Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

Mr GB, many of us on this topic have children and in my case grandchildren. Given that there are people on the loose in Thailand who can commit murder more than once and not be answerable to any set of laws is actually a big worry. To have a family member murdered is just too sad. If you do not have any ties with Thailand what are doing on this site?

I am in my 80th decade, seen a lot of life, take it from me, the real killers of Koh Tao are not on trial, that is the saddest part at the moment..

[StealthEnergiser]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.

I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.

I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?

Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

Mr GB, many of us on this topic have children and in my case grandchildren. Given that there are people on the loose in Thailand who can commit murder more than once and not be answerable to any set of laws is actually a big worry. To have a family member murdered is just too sad. If you do not have any ties with Thailand what are doing on this site?

I am in my 80th decade, seen a lot of life, take it from me, the real killers of Koh Tao are not on trial, that is the saddest part at the moment..

I agree with you 100 percent that small group show no respect to the families at and are more than happy to convict 2 innocent people , let people that have respect post on the forum ,their group impresses nobody and this topic would be much better without them.

[Basil B]

Well it seems we have another 8 days whereby the prosecution will present more evidence no doubt to be discredited like most of the evidence so far.

Unfortunately I assume the judges can not throw the case out until they have heard all the prosecutions evidence, if the the judges decide there is a case to answer the defence have only 5 days to present their case...

[Thesticle]

What's the deal , this can't be normal! Who are the dark forces and why are they doing this?

This is just another indication that something is fishy about this case and the people pulling the strings have something to hide.

Edit. In reference to asking 17 Translators on Samui and being declined by all

Edited July 21, 2015 by Thesticle

[Happy Grumpy]

Wow, I wonder why every translator on the island would be scared of translating for journalists during a trial for 2 Burmese peasants.

[GOLDBUGGY]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.

I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.

I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?

Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

Mr GB, many of us on this topic have children and in my case grandchildren. Given that there are people on the loose in Thailand who can commit murder more than once and not be answerable to any set of laws is actually a big worry. To have a family member murdered is just too sad. If you do not have any ties with Thailand what are doing on this site?

I am in my 80th decade, seen a lot of life, take it from me, the real killers of Koh Tao are not on trial, that is the saddest part at the moment..

I have 3 daughters to and I can't even imagine how terrible I would feel if my daughter had the same fate as poor Hannah. So I think I am as qualified as you to be a worried parents. To me, the most important would be to make damned sure that the accused are not freed until reasonable doubt sets them free. or they are found guilty.

How would you feel if you were wrong, but the Media Pressure released the accused, then they murdered and raped your granddaughter? You seem you are ready to set them free now, and yet you haven't even heard the evidence against them, or to support their innocents. Since you are so sure they are innocent what do you base your opinion on? Besides Social Media?

That they have innocent faces, like Ted Bundy who's innocent face helped him to go on and murder and rape at least 30 women? Do you think Ted Bundy's Mother and Father knew he was doing this as he came from a good home? That they didn't sau he was a good boy? That even Ted Bundy's Live-in Girlfriend had no idea whatsoever he was committing these horrible crimes while he was living with her. Or Ted Bundy's closest friends? So how can you be so sure by reading gossip columns and looking at there face, they are innocent, when the closest people to Ted Bundy had no idea at whatsoever?.

Does it surprise you that someone who is charged with murder swears he didn't do it? That he takes back his confession and claims police brutality? This is not new. This is old hat.

[Darkknight666]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.

I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.

I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?

Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

Mr GB, many of us on this topic have children and in my case grandchildren. Given that there are people on the loose in Thailand who can commit murder more than once and not be answerable to any set of laws is actually a big worry. To have a family member murdered is just too sad. If you do not have any ties with Thailand what are doing on this site?

I am in my 80th decade, seen a lot of life, take it from me, the real killers of Koh Tao are not on trial, that is the saddest part at the moment..

I have 3 daughters to and I can't even imagine how terrible I would feel if my daughter had the same fate as poor Hannah. So I think I am as qualified as you to be a worried parents. To me, the most important would be to make damned sure that the accused are not freed until reasonable doubt sets them free. or they are found guilty.

How would you feel if you were wrong, but the Media Pressure released the accused, then they murdered and raped your granddaughter? You seem you are ready to set them free now, and yet you haven't even heard the evidence against them, or to support their innocents. Since you are so sure they are innocent what do you base your opinion on? Besides Social Media?

That they have innocent faces, like Ted Bundy who's innocent face helped him to go on and murder and rape at least 30 women? Do you think Ted Bundy's Mother and Father knew he was doing this as he came from a good home? That they didn't sau he was a good boy? That even Ted Bundy's Live-in Girlfriend had no idea whatsoever he was committing these horrible crimes while he was living with her. Or Ted Bundy's closest friends? So how can you be so sure by reading gossip columns and looking at there face, they are innocent, when the closest people to Ted Bundy had no idea at whatsoever?.

Does it surprise you that someone who is charged with murder swears he didn't do it? That he takes back his confession and claims police brutality? This is not new. This is old hat.

Okay GB, being that you're trying to be somewhat neutral in this post, I ask of you, why all of the Thai media isn't covering the case? Why is the evidence either lost, used, or false reported? Why would a translator say she had been threatened? Why would a local taxi driver accuse police of trying to bribe him for his false testimony? (Prasit clearly says that the police tried to get him to give false testimony for money) why would Prasit do that? Why would Sean McAnna run if it was the B2 and he saw them in the act? Why would many, many Thai folks condemn the real assailants? Why the change in police leadership mid investigation? Why is Sonti convinced this is a cover up?

If you could answer half of those I'd be impressed. I don't know that the B2 weren't in some way pulled into this crime. But I do NOT believe they commited it based on the facts... I'm not convinced that translators would be scared to cover a story about two Burnese men who are clearly guilty in their eyes.

It stinks, Buggy, and you're attempt at being objective makes you seem complicit.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Darkknight666

[AleG]

So if only 5 are what you called "Facts" then I gather the rest is just Bull-shit then and I will throw them in the Bull-shit Pile.

Okay? Lets' check Your "Facts"

Sniffer Dogs?

I can't see what the Sniffer Dogs would do on the beach, besides having a good Poopoo, when the Crime Scene is covered in 2 feet of water after the Tide came in.

Mon on the crime scene?

The Media Reported the bodies were discovered by beach cleaners, but if it was the gardener no difference, as they both would have worked for Mon and his hotel or the bar.

Now if some excited migrant worker came running to you all excited and said in broken English he found bodies on the beach what would you do? Well before I would call the Police and possibly make a fool out of myself.I would go and look for myself first. Which I gather this is what he would do also.

Since the bodies were behind rocks, he would need to enter the crime scene to see for himself. Or do you think a partial blind migrant beach cleaner, or gardener would call the Police before he talked to his boss first, who he knew was nearby?

Allowed People to handle evidence without rubber gloves?

The only instances I can think of is first the the Hoe. The gardener went to get his hoe as he needed it. He did not know it could be a possible murder weapon at that time so he handled it the same way as he always did. This does not qualify that they allowed him to do this. He just did what he normally did each day. I believe it was Mon and the Police who asked the Gardener to put on gloves before returning the hoe, which contradicts your "Fact" also.

David Millers Body was perhaps the second instance and handled without gloves. I don't no for sure. But either way I don't see much choice they had then. The Tide was coming in and they either had to move him or risk that he would be swept away, and taken out to sea. If there is more it will be answered in you next "Fact".

Didn't have qualified people doing Forensics?

If you mean the crime scene I already explained that in an early post but for you I will give you the shorter version.

People here tend to like to compare this case to a case involving the FBI investigating a case in New York City, or Scotland Yard in London. What they tend to forget is that these double murders and rape took place on a small remote island that has a population of about 2,000 People and a Total Police Force of 5 people.

How much training do you think they have in securing a Crime Scene and if so how long ago? How many Double Murders and Rapes do you think they handle every year? What is the size of their S.W.A.T. Team on the Island? The highest ranking Police Officer on the Island was on the stand and when asked by the Defense he said he was involved with 2 rapes but not including a murder in his Life-time. That should indicate the rest of the Police Men and there experience.

How long would it take to get a Profession Investigative Team together in Bangkok, with approval from the higher ups, plus all the equipment and supplies you are going to need? Then get from Bangkok to a remote island and unload everything then get to the Crime Scene? Have they even a place for them to all stay that night and sleep? Would you go if you had to sleep in the Jungle? Would you send your men to do that?

My point is Professional help was a long way off and since the Tide was coming in they had to do something quickly or risk losing all the evidence and maybe even the bodies. That is also why they asked for help from ordinary people. But then you would probably think all this was all staged to.

Lied about DNA?

They never did and that has never been proven anywhere, so this is not a "Fact" at all. So I will just throw that one in the Bull-shit Pile.

I have seen sniffer dogs at BTS and MRT stations in Bangkok, so the claim that the police don't have or use them is patently not true. Not that has any bearing in the case, it's just a red herring.

One point though, the forensic team that examined the scene traveled from Surat Thani, which is of course significantly closer than Bangkok but still took them at least 5 hours to assemble a team and travel to the island.

[silverado]

hello everybody,
first of all, it seems that we have a few disgusting people (alias or no) who are posting here (on an exagerated way), poison the subject, the forum and causing troubles . may i suggest to them : ignore me and move it along !
new on the forum i hope to help and contribute positivly to the discussion in the future but i wanted to say that above...
i leave you with the kind of naugthy people (found on FB) i don't want to argue. they will recognize them self in this :

[Darkknight666]

hello everybody,

first of all, it seems that we have a few disgusting people (alias or no) who are posting here (on an exagerated way), poison the subject, the forum and causing troubles . may i suggest to them : ignore me and move it along !

new on the forum i hope to help and contribute positivly to the discussion in the future but i wanted to say that above...

i leave you with the kind of naugthy people (found on FB) i don't want to argue. they will recognize them self in this :

Sorry, I don't get your point, new friend. Do you have an idea as to who Adam is? Fear won't stop me. Or many others. What do you think charging someone for talking on a website about a crime, this crime, would say about the politics/corruption?

[GOLDBUGGY]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.

I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.

I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?

Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

Mr GB, many of us on this topic have children and in my case grandchildren. Given that there are people on the loose in Thailand who can commit murder more than once and not be answerable to any set of laws is actually a big worry. To have a family member murdered is just too sad. If you do not have any ties with Thailand what are doing on this site?

I am in my 80th decade, seen a lot of life, take it from me, the real killers of Koh Tao are not on trial, that is the saddest part at the moment..

I have 3 daughters to and I can't even imagine how terrible I would feel if my daughter had the same fate as poor Hannah. So I think I am as qualified as you to be a worried parents. To me, the most important would be to make damned sure that the accused are not freed until reasonable doubt sets them free. or they are found guilty.

How would you feel if you were wrong, but the Media Pressure released the accused, then they murdered and raped your granddaughter? You seem you are ready to set them free now, and yet you haven't even heard the evidence against them, or to support their innocents. Since you are so sure they are innocent what do you base your opinion on? Besides Social Media?

That they have innocent faces, like Ted Bundy who's innocent face helped him to go on and murder and rape at least 30 women? Do you think Ted Bundy's Mother and Father knew he was doing this as he came from a good home? That they didn't sau he was a good boy? That even Ted Bundy's Live-in Girlfriend had no idea whatsoever he was committing these horrible crimes while he was living with her. Or Ted Bundy's closest friends? So how can you be so sure by reading gossip columns and looking at there face, they are innocent, when the closest people to Ted Bundy had no idea at whatsoever?.

Does it surprise you that someone who is charged with murder swears he didn't do it? That he takes back his confession and claims police brutality? This is not new. This is old hat.

Okay GB, being that you're trying to be somewhat neutral in this post, I ask of you, why all of the Thai media isn't covering the case? Why is the evidence either lost, used, or false reported? Why would a translator say she had been threatened? Why would a local taxi driver accuse police of trying to bribe him for his false testimony? (Prasit clearly says that the police tried to get him to give false testimony for money) why would Prasit do that? Why would Sean McAnna run if it was the B2 and he saw them in the act? Why would many, many Thai folks condemn the real assailants? Why the change in police leadership mid investigation? Why is Sonti convinced this is a cover up?

If you could answer half of those I'd be impressed. I don't know that the B2 weren't in some way pulled into this crime. But I do NOT believe they commited it based on the facts... I'm not convinced that translators would be scared to cover a story about two Burnese men who are clearly guilty in their eyes.

It stinks, Buggy, and you're attempt at being objective makes you seem complicit.

There are a Million possibilities and answers to all your questions, which all would be pure speculation. If you haven't noticed I am not much into speculation or conspiracy theories. I also can see any answer to any of your questions proving Innocent or Guilt.

But isn't a bit premature to say there will be no coverage on something that hasn't happened yet? I personally don't take everything Andy says as the Gospel True either, unless you can convince me he is neutral in this case, which he is not.

[silverado]

65 Witnesses to what? Tish and pish. Lots of "expert" (endorsed) testimonies due up then.

lot of experts, yes, same as Mon's grand father who found Zaw's guitar ( according khaosod last news), Mon's mother who owns the 2B 's appartement , Dj love and bouncers of ac bar working for Mon...

i guess yes a lot of experts will testity and give a lot of new evidences to the court tomorrow ...

[glenmohr]

To Mr GB,

You asked how I would feel if the 2 accused were let out and then raped/ murdered someone in my family.

Easy to answer, they wouldn't. They have no form. People who rape and then murder almost always have a prior criminal record.

It is not the Burmese we are afraid of, it is those Thais who have form, you always overlook the fact that the 2 accused do not have form. The Thais in my part of Thailand are some of the nicest people in the world but different regions of Thailand have a different culture the further south one goes.

I feel from your posts that there are some important items you are avoiding, most importantly what is your relationship with the original suspects? Oops! none of my business you say ???

[silverado]

hello everybody,

first of all, it seems that we have a few disgusting people (alias or no) who are posting here (on an exagerated way), poison the subject, the forum and causing troubles . may i suggest to them : ignore me and move it along !

new on the forum i hope to help and contribute positivly to the discussion in the future but i wanted to say that above...

i leave you with the kind of naugthy people (found on FB) i don't want to argue. they will recognize them self in this :

Sorry, I don't get your point, new friend. Do you have an idea as to who Adam is? Fear won't stop me. Or many others. What do you think charging someone for talking on a website about a crime, this crime, would say about the politics/corruption?

My point is i don't want to argue with or about this kind of people present here .. you know as me that writing comments or talking on a website critizing the RTP in this case (and in many others) is a crime in thailand .... But I don't care as well as you....

[Darkknight666]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.
I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.
I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?
Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

Mr GB, many of us on this topic have children and in my case grandchildren. Given that there are people on the loose in Thailand who can commit murder more than once and not be answerable to any set of laws is actually a big worry. To have a family member murdered is just too sad. If you do not have any ties with Thailand what are doing on this site?

I am in my 80th decade, seen a lot of life, take it from me, the real killers of Koh Tao are not on trial, that is the saddest part at the moment..

I have 3 daughters to and I can't even imagine how terrible I would feel if my daughter had the same fate as poor Hannah. So I think I am as qualified as you to be a worried parents. To me, the most important would be to make damned sure that the accused are not freed until reasonable doubt sets them free. or they are found guilty.

How would you feel if you were wrong, but the Media Pressure released the accused, then they murdered and raped your granddaughter? You seem you are ready to set them free now, and yet you haven't even heard the evidence against them, or to support their innocents. Since you are so sure they are innocent what do you base your opinion on? Besides Social Media?

That they have innocent faces, like Ted Bundy who's innocent face helped him to go on and murder and rape at least 30 women? Do you think Ted Bundy's Mother and Father knew he was doing this as he came from a good home? That they didn't sau he was a good boy? That even Ted Bundy's Live-in Girlfriend had no idea whatsoever he was committing these horrible crimes while he was living with her. Or Ted Bundy's closest friends? So how can you be so sure by reading gossip columns and looking at there face, they are innocent, when the closest people to Ted Bundy had no idea at whatsoever?.

Does it surprise you that someone who is charged with murder swears he didn't do it? That he takes back his confession and claims police brutality? This is not new. This is old hat.

Okay GB, being that you're trying to be somewhat neutral in this post, I ask of you, why all of the Thai media isn't covering the case? Why is the evidence either lost, used, or false reported? Why would a translator say she had been threatened? Why would a local taxi driver accuse police of trying to bribe him for his false testimony? (Prasit clearly says that the police tried to get him to give false testimony for money) why would Prasit do that? Why would Sean McAnna run if it was the B2 and he saw them in the act? Why would many, many Thai folks condemn the real assailants? Why the change in police leadership mid investigation? Why is Sonti convinced this is a cover up?


If you could answer half of those I'd be impressed. I don't know that the B2 weren't in some way pulled into this crime. But I do NOT believe they commited it based on the facts... I'm not convinced that translators would be scared to cover a story about two Burnese men who are clearly guilty in their eyes.

It stinks, Buggy, and you're attempt at being objective makes you seem complicit.

There are a Million possibilities and answers to all your questions, which all would be pure speculation. If you haven't noticed I am not much into speculation or conspiracy theories. I also can see any answer to any of your questions proving Innocent or Guilt.

But isn't a bit premature to say there will be no coverage on something that hasn't happened yet? I personally don't take everything Andy says as the Gospel True either, unless you can convince me he is neutral in this case, which he is not.

Why should Andy Hall, be neutral? He's taken a case, Pro-Bono, to defend the accused. His job is to find the truth, to serve his clients and see Juitice is done. Will you go on record as saying the prosecutors are neutral? No, I thought so. They're opposing sides in a criminal trial.

I'm not asking you to give me the truth of what happened In response to my questions, I only ask your opinion, which you seem reluctant to give on the points I've raised.

Let me remind you, I want whoever did this, nobody excluded, to swing for this, actually i'd prefer if they suffered the exact same fate as Hannah Witheridge, And I mean that.

Those who live or have lived here, know the way things work when crime and VIP's collide.. VIP's usually are treated with Kid-Gloves. The cover-up and secrecy is obvious, the mafia threats and attempted extortion/bribery are document, dually.

This size of a concentrated effort to distort the facts in a murder case is unbelievable.

I don't for one second believe the B2 could change the course of an investigation like this, they also couldn't scare Sean off the island forever.

Or make the entire island be silent. For two sokkoprak (sic) Burmese illegal aliens?

[bunglebag]

On the donation front there's also a chain of thought among fellow Countrymen who would rather contribute towards costs incurred by the parents rather than help fund the defence of those who might just have murdered their children....

There's certainly less likelyhood of being wrong this way.

This is true but those lives have unfortunately already been taken by this tragedy. If the B2 are innocent of the charges laid against them would you want theirs to also be taken?

I'm not saying they are innocent as I don't know what happened that night, but to me something hasn't felt right since day one. With suspicion across Thailand, and the world, that these 2 are scapegoats and with their lives on the line I do think they have the right to legal representation and as fairer a trial as possible, don't you? They won't get that without a some aid, hence my own small contribution went that way.