Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[loonodingle]

What I don't understand out of everything is how Hannah ended up alone in the beach after midnight with her killers when she was travelling with 3-4 friends?

And CCTV footage showed she was surrounded by people. It makes no sense.

Unless she had her own room and they sneaked up on her, shot her there and brought her to the beach to rape and bludgeon her. However I remember them showing her hotel room and she was sharing with a friend as it was a twin room.

How did her friend not know she was missing?

It makes no sense.

If my friend was missing from the bedroom, I'd go out a find her. Hannah wasn't found until the morning.

Hannah was originally going to travel on her own, she might as well have done!

<deleted> nobody shot anyone what on earth are you going on about, it seems pretty obvious that Hannah and David had developed a relationship during their holiday and were most likely spending some alone time on the beach but evidently they were not alone, stop dreaming up these stupid ideas about guns and shooting, someone started this nonsense earlier on this thread and it is absolute nonesense

Ok forget the gun. However it was reported recently in The Times (UK) that she had shrapnel wounds, which are caused by a gun.

I doubt your theory neither. David had a long term girlfriend plus Hannah and David met for the first time that night according to reports.

Plus he was seen on CCTV walking but without her and she was seen walking with friends, not David. She was last seen on CCTV at 12am where he was last seen on CCTV alone at 1:30am. It seems that he stumbled across what was happening.

Only the friends could know and none of them have given any accounts of what happened as I'm sure the media would have picked up on it.

Regardless, I still don't get how a friend sharing a room with you would not be worried that you haven't come back to your hotel room.

You are perhaps way off the mark.

It could very well be that there was a shot first. This could be the very reason they have a scenes of crime and forensic expert attending. The expert has years of experience and has worked in Kosovo also as an advisor for the so a heavyweight in his field of work. He will be there to present new facts and explain what they have found in the forensic autopsy. This will be a substantial revelation I think ....

As for why Hannah went off alone well you could suggest she had an arrangement to meet someone. She even.left her phone with one of the other Hannah's. They probably didn't report her missing because they knew she was going for some hanky panky.

Hannah had travelled with 3 friends. Another two Hannah's and an Emma. 1 Hannah and Emma studied with her on the same course at a uni in Essex. The other Hannah came from Dorset.

I really do think we are going to get a debunk of the prosecution theory and substantial contradictory claims.

You will see....

Edited July 13, 2015 by loonodingle

[Rykbanlor]

When the UK investigators will release info from their tests? I guess they have crucial info.

I heard somewhere the trial resumes in 22 days or so. I think Andy Hall said they were going to provide details then maybe.

[FangFerang]

When the court translator was threatened by the mafia and told not to talk to foreign reporters, she resigned. How can anyone in their right mind think the evidence is not trumped up?

If it smells like crap and looks like crap -- it is crap.

This case is crap.

[thailandchilli]

Interesting post made on the 8th July on this community facebook page, yes its only hearsay but plausible : https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koh-Tao-Thailand/340091729498765

I was told by a Thai lady with connections to this island that a local guy did this. I was told the following, i have no idea if this is true but she told me her ex boyfriend is a police man on Koh Tao. The story is that Hannah was partying the night before with a local Thai Guy (maybe some intimacy), the following day he saw her and she blanked him. later than night he got his revenge by attacking her, David Miller heard her being attached and came to her rescue but ended up getting killed as well. Apparently its well known on the Island who was responsible but its a big cover up

[BoristheBlade]

The Thai media has been told to stay away.......chief of Police gave them plenty of warnings, it started with the Nomsod DNA farce.

[stickylies]

This case is crap.

jup. that I knew 68 pages ago already...

[mmh8]

 

When the UK investigators will release info from their tests? I guess they have crucial info.

 

the UK investigators have as much influence/input into this case as that roti seller. in fact the roti seller has more influence.

in fact, more in the way of justice could be achived if they use 3 roti sellers to come to a verdict.

[Dogmatix]

For those who don't undrstand the Thainess of this case look at the following with English subtitles available.

Sondhi may be a controversial character but he doesn't give a sh*t what he says and will call a spade a spade, if he feels like it. Some one so important that he couldn't be investigated tried to have him assassinated and even that hasn't stopped him. BTW the police chief at the time of his attempted assassination was the brother of Prawit, who is mentioned in the clip as giving the green light for the alleged frame up. He is now head of security of the NCPO and as a former army chief, who promoted Prayut, is his alleged mentor and leader of the 'Eastern Tigers' army faction.

[Graemej100]

I watched the video but where are the sub-titles?

[StealthEnergiser]

I watched the video but where are the sub-titles?

Watch it on youtube

[loonodingle]

This whole thing is a farce. It is obvious that much effort is put into the coverup. it shows connections with police, mafia and even politicians.

One needs to ask , what kind of country is this. How low can they go to pin a death sentence on innocent people to cover their trail.

Foreigners should let their voices heard all over the world. let their media know and let this destination be exposed for what it is. if we foreigners sit idle and continue to pump billions into this economy and fatten these criminals , then wee too have to share a guilty conscience.

Tourist need to know what the corruption and justice system here is like before they spend their hard earned cash. we should never , never help crime to flourish.

100% agree with you Waden. Having lived here and in other "developing" countries with similar levels of corruption and accepted it as part of life there, this case has really revealed how despicable the situation is here from top to bottom and is causing me to seriously re-evaluate my stay.

I am comforted though by the fact maybe, just maybe, all the international attention could bring the beginnings of change. That is why we must keep attention focused and give Andy all the help we can. Maybe that will also be a very small consolation for the tragic loss of 2 young lives although it will likely give scant comfort to the families.

The reports are that a UK F&CO Officer accompanied the 2 families of the two victims and sat with them in the Samui Courthouse. Say what you want of the F&CO's involvement (or lack thereof) in this case, how many murder trials in Thailand have representative's of the victim's Embassy sitting in the Courtroom?

This whole trial is unprecedented. We have never seen any instance were 100000 plus people signed a petition to David Cameron to send UK investigation teams to Verify DNA.

The thing is beyond anything previously. Driven in part by the Thailand societies revulsion and what they perceive tobe an unjust trial. To the extent that several high profile TThailand People have made public statement and criticisms about the procedures and the arrest and guilt of the suspects. In all my 20 odd years in Thailand I have never seen this and neither have any of the TV Forum I guess.

I think it's natural for the Embassy to send a rep to support the family. The Witheridge's conservative MP is a

neighbour and he is also a cabinet minister. Know doubt friends of the FCO minister Hugo. So they will want to hold out a helping hand in the tragic case. It's very daunting if it your first time in Thailand let alone the trial regarding the murder of your children.

I think they are keeping an open mind comments from the family's indict an acknowledgement that it may no go as they thought when they made their comments in the previous FCO press release. We're they stated there was convincing evidence. That's been rowed back to open mind.

[Graemej100]

If the case is dismissed will the 'reward', given by the PM to the police who 'cracked the case' so early, be returned?

[loonodingle]

I watched the video but where are the sub-titles?

There is a little button on the bottom of the player that turns subtitles on.

[JLCrab]

This whole thing is a farce. It is obvious that much effort is put into the coverup. it shows connections with police, mafia and even politicians.

One needs to ask , what kind of country is this. How low can they go to pin a death sentence on innocent people to cover their trail.

Foreigners should let their voices heard all over the world. let their media know and let this destination be exposed for what it is. if we foreigners sit idle and continue to pump billions into this economy and fatten these criminals , then wee too have to share a guilty conscience.

Tourist need to know what the corruption and justice system here is like before they spend their hard earned cash. we should never , never help crime to flourish.

100% agree with you Waden. Having lived here and in other "developing" countries with similar levels of corruption and accepted it as part of life there, this case has really revealed how despicable the situation is here from top to bottom and is causing me to seriously re-evaluate my stay.

I am comforted though by the fact maybe, just maybe, all the international attention could bring the beginnings of change. That is why we must keep attention focused and give Andy all the help we can. Maybe that will also be a very small consolation for the tragic loss of 2 young lives although it will likely give scant comfort to the families.

The reports are that a UK F&CO Officer accompanied the 2 families of the two victims and sat with them in the Samui Courthouse. Say what you want of the F&CO's involvement (or lack thereof) in this case, how many murder trials in Thailand have representative's of the victim's Embassy sitting in the Courtroom?

This whole trial is unprecedented. We have never seen any instance were 100000 plus people signed a petition to David Cameron to send UK investigation teams to Verify DNA.

The thing is beyond anything previously. Driven in part by the Thailand societies revulsion and what they perceive tobe an unjust trial. To the extent that several high profile TThailand People have made public statement and criticisms about the procedures and the arrest and guilt of the suspects. In all my 20 odd years in Thailand I have never seen this and neither have any of the TV Forum I guess.

I think it's natural for the Embassy to send a rep to support the family. The Witheridge's conservative MP is a

neighbour and he is also a cabinet minister. Know doubt friends of the FCO minister Hugo. So they will want to hold out a helping hand in the tragic case. It's very daunting if it your first time in Thailand let alone the trial regarding the murder of your children.

I think they are keeping an open mind comments from the family's indict an acknowledgement that it may no go as they thought when they made their comments in the previous FCO press release. We're they stated there was convincing evidence. That's been rowed back to open mind.

The F&CO's presence in the Courtroom is also very simple: We're watching you.

[Rykbanlor]

I watched the video but where are the sub-titles?

Hit the CC button under the video

[Si Thea01]

An article in this morning's Bkk Post mentions a murder, less than a year ago, of a beautiful young Thai lady. It happened at Surat Thani, which is the main city in the district which administers KT and Samui. The same cops (or their buddies) who botched the investigation of the Thai lady's murder are botching the KT investigation. The victim's sister wasn't satisfied that Thai cops couldn't do anything right, so she made an appeal on Facebook. The ensuing torrent of responses prompted Thai cops to get off their butts and start doing their jobs. They found the murderer - who confessed.

Projection of what may happen when the dust starts to settle on this botched/contrived KT investigation: I predict the head cop (the one who put himself in charge, while putting the former head cop out to pasture), will be called up on disciplinary charges - for intentionally skewing evidence to try and frame scapegoats. If that happens, no one should be surprised if he pulls a runner to a farang country. It won't be the first time such shenanigans have happened.

The PM should immediately pull the head cop's passport, and the passports of all the top brass involved with this case. Anything less, will indicate the PM is in cahoots with them.

Can't comment on the murder you're referring to as I know nothing of it. and yes, maybe something should happen ton the head cop but do you, in all honesty, believe what you have written in the last sentence?

Edited July 13, 2015 by Si Thea01

[boomerangutang]

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/620051717007118337

Half the words written in all the earlier articles (Sept/Oct) by Thai press corps about the crime and its aftermath, were devoted to telling how this could adversely affect tourist revenue. Perhaps now, they're not as worried about tourist dollars, so they're in turn, not concerned about the trial - even though it's big news internationally. I would venture to say Thais in general have the focus of finches, but I don't want to sound like a Thai-basher.

On Saturday, the police general in charge stated DNA evidence 'was not lost.' source - Nation newspaper

Is he believable? No switcheroo, please, Police General Somyot.

Perhaps he'd be adept with the three walnut shells, working a sidewalk on a bridge over the River Thames - if he were to flee from Thailand - upon hearing of charges being laid against him for intentionally perverting the course of justice.

I hope that the burmese PM has been notified of the latest developments if so time for him to call PM Prayuth.

Myanmar top brass have already been curtly rebuffed by Thai top brass, when they requested the B2 be allowed bail, and offered to pay. I doubt they want to be twice bitten.

It cannot collapse the self elected PM has publicly stated that the DNA is good enough to convict these two men He had already made his conclusion prior to the trial taking place

I don't think the Thai PM said that. It was more along the lines, "if the DNA matches (the B's and Hannah's) then they must be guilty of murder." (which is not an air-tight line of logic). Perhaps you're thinking of the PM saying this is a perfect investigation, and 'Thai investigators are adhering to the same instruction manual as the British.'

[CapeThai]

Is Thai murder trial set to collapse?

KOH SAMUI: -- Families of British backpackers fly home as defence lawyers call for suspects to be acquitted over claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders

The families of murdered British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller flew home from Thailand yesterday as the legal team representing the accused claimed the case was on the verge of collapse.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo face a possible death penalty if they are convicted of sexually assaulting and killing Hannah, 23, with a hoe, and clubbing David, 24, unconscious before leaving him to drown on a beach on Kao Tao island last September.

Hannahs father and brother, and Davids parents and brother last week flew to neighbouring Kao Samui for the three-day opening of the trial, where they were visibly shocked as photographs of the bodies were casually handed around the court.

The case marred by claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders was adjourned yesterday until July 22 while the defendants lawyers prepare to call for their acquittal.

We hope by the end of the prosecution case, we will have destroyed it and we will show that it is completely lacking in credibility, said Andy Hall, a British migrant rights activist working with defence lawyers.

Mr Hall said the defence held incredibly significant information from an independent authority with which it would discredit the prosecution case when the trial reopens. He declined to give more details but the information is believed to relate to DNA samples obtained from Hannahs body after it was returned to the UK.

Kao Taos migrant workers were subjected to mass DNA testing before Zaw and Wai, both 22, were arrested amid global media attention and intense pressure on police to find the killers.

The pair confessed to the murders but later withdrew their statements, claiming police had tortured them. Police insist they have DNA evidence linking them to the murders but said key samples could not be independently tested because they had been used up by forensics teams. They also admitted the crime scene had been contaminated, and that the hoe was removed before it was forensically examined.

Police have been accused of making scapegoats of migrants amid claims that the real killers were Thai men linked to powerful families who are said to run Kao Tao.

Davids father said on Friday the families were keeping an open mind. The trial is due to last until September, with a verdict expected in October.

--Mail Online: 2015-07-12

Absolutely as they have nothing except for scapegoating evidence which will now conveniently disappear due to the British having their own forensic evidence now....

[phuketandsee]

This case is crap.

jup. that I knew 68 pages ago already...

I think most of us knew that 10 months ago

[boomerangutang]

When the UK investigators will release info from their tests? I guess they have crucial info.

I heard somewhere the trial resumes in 22 days or so. I think Andy Hall said they were going to provide details then maybe.

resumes on July 22, one day. Another day: 28th, then a long wait until the latter part of August.

What happens if the judge declares a mistrial? the circus continues... . . . . . .

If the case is dismissed will the 'reward', given by the PM to the police who 'cracked the case' so early, be returned?

About as likely as the Headman honoring his pledge of 1 million baht to whomever can provide proof that his son was involved. I would send my address, in hopes he'd send the money to me (cash via ATM, not a check, thanks), but am concerned that something/someone else may show up at my door. After all, I've written a lot on this blog, outlining possible proofs (if only RTP would pursue leads ) ...of his son's involvement.

[StealthEnergiser]

Interesting post made on the 8th July on this community facebook page, yes its only hearsay but plausible : https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koh-Tao-Thailand/340091729498765

I was told by a Thai lady with connections to this island that a local guy did this. I was told the following, i have no idea if this is true but she told me her ex boyfriend is a police man on Koh Tao. The story is that Hannah was partying the night before with a local Thai Guy (maybe some intimacy), the following day he saw her and she blanked him. later than night he got his revenge by attacking her, David Miller heard her being attached and came to her rescue but ended up getting killed as well. Apparently its well known on the Island who was responsible but its a big cover up

The defence should be questioning Mr Moore for more info.

[StealthEnergiser]

Is Thai murder trial set to collapse?

KOH SAMUI: -- Families of British backpackers fly home as defence lawyers call for suspects to be acquitted over claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders

The families of murdered British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller flew home from Thailand yesterday as the legal team representing the accused claimed the case was on the verge of collapse.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo face a possible death penalty if they are convicted of sexually assaulting and killing Hannah, 23, with a hoe, and clubbing David, 24, unconscious before leaving him to drown on a beach on Kao Tao island last September.

Hannahs father and brother, and Davids parents and brother last week flew to neighbouring Kao Samui for the three-day opening of the trial, where they were visibly shocked as photographs of the bodies were casually handed around the court.

The case marred by claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders was adjourned yesterday until July 22 while the defendants lawyers prepare to call for their acquittal.

We hope by the end of the prosecution case, we will have destroyed it and we will show that it is completely lacking in credibility, said Andy Hall, a British migrant rights activist working with defence lawyers.

Mr Hall said the defence held incredibly significant information from an independent authority with which it would discredit the prosecution case when the trial reopens. He declined to give more details but the information is believed to relate to DNA samples obtained from Hannahs body after it was returned to the UK.

Kao Taos migrant workers were subjected to mass DNA testing before Zaw and Wai, both 22, were arrested amid global media attention and intense pressure on police to find the killers.

The pair confessed to the murders but later withdrew their statements, claiming police had tortured them. Police insist they have DNA evidence linking them to the murders but said key samples could not be independently tested because they had been used up by forensics teams. They also admitted the crime scene had been contaminated, and that the hoe was removed before it was forensically examined.

Police have been accused of making scapegoats of migrants amid claims that the real killers were Thai men linked to powerful families who are said to run Kao Tao.

Davids father said on Friday the families were keeping an open mind. The trial is due to last until September, with a verdict expected in October.

--Mail Online: 2015-07-12

Absolutely as they have nothing except for scapegoating evidence which will now conveniently disappear due to the British having their own forensic evidence now....

There has been mention of a tourist took photo's of Hannah with a person connected to AC bar hopefully this may be some of the evidence the defence team are holding.

[BoristheBlade]

I truly believe the RTP are digging there own graves.

This is not a normal case. In any other case of this type in Thailand, the two Burmese patsies would be dead already.

But this case is very , very different, these were no "ordinary" murders. This was a brutal, savage attack.

This was an attack carried out by several very seriously disturbed individuals. Individuals who need to be taken out of the public domain, regardless of colour, creed, nationality, wealth or INFLENCE.

The people on that island need and deserve protection from these evil bastards.

The people who did this have murdered and raped before and are 100% certain to do so again.

And god help the people and authorities who have helped them escape justice when they do strike again.

[BoristheBlade]

Is Thai murder trial set to collapse?

KOH SAMUI: -- Families of British backpackers fly home as defence lawyers call for suspects to be acquitted over claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders

The families of murdered British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller flew home from Thailand yesterday as the legal team representing the accused claimed the case was on the verge of collapse.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo face a possible death penalty if they are convicted of sexually assaulting and killing Hannah, 23, with a hoe, and clubbing David, 24, unconscious before leaving him to drown on a beach on Kao Tao island last September.

Hannahs father and brother, and Davids parents and brother last week flew to neighbouring Kao Samui for the three-day opening of the trial, where they were visibly shocked as photographs of the bodies were casually handed around the court.

The case marred by claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders was adjourned yesterday until July 22 while the defendants lawyers prepare to call for their acquittal.

We hope by the end of the prosecution case, we will have destroyed it and we will show that it is completely lacking in credibility, said Andy Hall, a British migrant rights activist working with defence lawyers.

Mr Hall said the defence held incredibly significant information from an independent authority with which it would discredit the prosecution case when the trial reopens. He declined to give more details but the information is believed to relate to DNA samples obtained from Hannahs body after it was returned to the UK.

Kao Taos migrant workers were subjected to mass DNA testing before Zaw and Wai, both 22, were arrested amid global media attention and intense pressure on police to find the killers.

The pair confessed to the murders but later withdrew their statements, claiming police had tortured them. Police insist they have DNA evidence linking them to the murders but said key samples could not be independently tested because they had been used up by forensics teams. They also admitted the crime scene had been contaminated, and that the hoe was removed before it was forensically examined.

Police have been accused of making scapegoats of migrants amid claims that the real killers were Thai men linked to powerful families who are said to run Kao Tao.

Davids father said on Friday the families were keeping an open mind. The trial is due to last until September, with a verdict expected in October.

--Mail Online: 2015-07-12

Absolutely as they have nothing except for scapegoating evidence which will now conveniently disappear due to the British having their own forensic evidence now....

There has been mention of a tourist took photo's of Hannah with a person connected to AC bar hopefully this may be some of the evidence the defence team are holding.

IF, and it's a vey big if....a picture was presented of one or both of the victims in the presence of a certain person who was a prime suspect at the start of the investigation.....wow that would blow this case sky high

[The Deerhunter]

Does anyone have a transcript to show what was actually said about the DNA being lost. I'd love to know which words were mistranslated?

I didn't think it was lost. Yesterday they said that it was "all used up" in the original tests, leaving none for the defense to use to check against?

[phuketandsee]

I truly believe the RTP are digging there own graves.

This is not a normal case. In any other case of this type in Thailand, the two Burmese patsies would be dead already.

But this case is very , very different, these were no "ordinary" murders. This was a brutal, savage attack.

This was an attack carried out by several very seriously disturbed individuals. Individuals who need to be taken out of the public domain, regardless of colour, creed, nationality, wealth or INFLENCE.

The people on that island need and deserve protection from these evil bastards.

The people who did this have murdered and raped before and are 100% certain to do so again.

And god help the people and authorities who have helped them escape justice when they do strike again.

Absolutely. Very well said!

[Basil B]

Perhaps a modern lie detector should be used to determine the truth. I mean on the police offers involved in the case...........

Water boarding...

Start with the chef of police...

[stephenterry]

Re Andy Hall's comment regarding the lack of 'interest' from Thai media. It could be that the Thai media has been 'warned off' reporting on this trial, in case it brings a backlash from the Thai populace. Internal face-threatening antagonism could be more serious to the ruling elite, than fielding foreign media by insinuating that they misunderstood. Thailand is all about Thailand, no-one else.

I would go as far to say that they couldn't give a s*it about the B2, the foreign media, or the views here on TVF. They couldn't give a sh*t about the defence or its (proposed) destruction of the prosecution's case. As long as there are stars in the sky, they'll carry on doing what they've been doing for centuries.

If I'm correct, it could be more likely that the trial would continue its course and that the B2 would be found guilty, despite everything. I think saving face over this is not even dreamt about at higher levels - unless the Thai populace intervenes.

Thus I would hope the defence don't miss out on educating and enlightening the masses along the way. That would be the straw that breaks officialdom's backs.

Edited July 13, 2015 by stephenterry

[thailandchilli]

The video show police and forensics doctor being interviewed on tv .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY&feature=player_embedded

Yes that section of the interview with the doctor starts at 16.40 unfortunately its all in Thai but I remember some posters on here months ago mentioning that he was saying that the wounds on David were caused by a knife? But I may be wrong. Would be so useful if there was someone on here who could do a reliable translation.............................

[Basil B]

I watched the video but where are the sub-titles?

Yes, took me some time to find...