Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[soalbundy]

The biggest problem to this investigation is that the police dont have any experience in being police

be fair, as con men they are brilliant

[Rykbanlor]

The biggest problem to this investigation is that the police dont have any experience in being police

be fair, as con men they are brilliant

I get your sentiment, but if they were that brilliant at being con men we probably wouldn't be over 70 pages on this thread right now.......

[jackanapes]

an absolute shambles the police now state the evidence is all used up how farcical can it get , the main suspect in the case who it is alleged fled the island shortly after the murders was found to be in Bangkok so the police released him his university pals said he showed up with scratches all over his arms obviously this wasn't followed up by the police I wonder why, the whole thing smells and its not a nice smell.

[StealthEnergiser]

I've been thinking about a part near the end of the Kevin Costner movie 'No Way Out.' A top brass US navy man is under suspicion for orchestrating a cover-up for a murder he committed. He has a right-hand man who's always defending him. At the end of the flick, the top brass concedes he's guilty but, get this...., his right-hand-man is STILL DEFENDING HIM as being innocent. .... the defender is almost foaming at the mouth in his compulsion to defend his boss, even though the boss, by that time, has admitted guilt.

It reminds me of what's currently happening with RTP defenders on this blog, who will go on defending the RTP shenanigans, even when the RTP themselves admit they've screwed up!

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

Fully reviewed by PBS in an hour long special. Their experts found no "doctoring"

I watched the entire PBS special you're referring to. Near the end, there's a mega-speeded up segment of just part of the time we're concerned about. We want to see when NS entered the lobby, before leaving at 9:30. It's already been established that it would not be difficult to flee from the island just after 5 am (when the crime was done) and get to Bkk within 4.5 hours. It could be done in closer to 3.5 hours. So, the well-seen NS video of him leaving is not important, except as a ruse.

Why haven't the defence called for records of all phone calls in that area at the time of the killings ?

[Trouble]

If most farangs don't care -- excepting maybe those on here -- then why should the average Thai care? Koh Tao Pub Crawl photo 10 JUL 2015 --

https://www.facebook.com/195259667186954/photos/pb.195259667186954.-2207520000.1436775105./916317651747815/?type=1&theater

https://scontent-kul1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11218864_916317911747789_1136168655140147748_n.jpg?oh=25dc7afc7edb6ed048d1a8c28dc5d95b&oe=5623196D

Perhaps we should be asking why so many on this Forum seem to care so much about this case, to the extent that there are pages and pages

of, sometimes salacious, detail and pointless speculation?

It's a horrible murder and there has been plenty of typical mishandling, cock-ups and potential corruption or malpractice, but that's hardly

unusual in this part of the world. Is it just because the victims were British and attractive?

I would say the interest stems from the brutality of the murders, the complete apparent ineptness of the police in investigating the crime, the quick confession and subsequent retraction of the defendants and now what appears too little evidence to link these two with the crime at least without reasonable doubt (wonder if that concept applies in Thailand). I have not followed in detail the proceedings of the trial as there seems to be little in depth reporting of the the trial at least here on TV. The continuing stories attributed to the press basically continue to just repeat same thing. It does seem quite apparent that the police/prosecution are falling way short on presenting what I would call substantial evidence so we will have to wait and see where this goes. From what I can see little has been presented and it seems to be a case with a lot of holes in it. I feel sorry for the families who apparently already returned to England. I fear they may have trouble getting closure in this case even if the court should hijack the proceedings and find the defendants guilty without what western courts would deem credible evidence and testimony. There will always be a lot of doubt whether these two committed the crime. As with most things in Thailand it is common knowledge that the police, prosecutors and courts can all be bought. How the police could have messed up the chain of custody with regard to the DNA and who actually did the DNA testing, how it was done, and how it was all handled certainly seems to have some holes and is quite troubling say the least.

[FinChin67]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

[Trouble]

Police in Thailand is very different to Police in a western country. They are doing what is expected of Police in Thailand.

The biggest problem to this investigation is that the police dont have any experience in being police

True Keystone Cops

[connda]

This isn't about justice. This is about finding someone to execute in retribution for the murders. Who's executed is irrelevant. I'm sure the Thai authorities hope the quicker the better.

[connda]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

Lie detector tests are about a scientific as Voodoo.

[connda]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Your summary pretty well nails the situation spot on. Without the spotlight of first world media attention shining on them, the prosecution would have wrapped this case up weeks ago. But now they have to adhere to Western standards of justice, including showing 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that the accused committed the murders.

What is being revealed instead is how the Thai justice system actually works. Little things like this is a trial in front of a tribunal and not a jury of peers. They must be pretty uncomfortable being under the microscope of Western standards and opinion. It's easy to shrug off Thai Visa - we're essentially non-entities; it's not so easy to shrug off The Guardian, other Western media sources, and their reader/viewer base.

[bamukloy]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

Lie detectors!! In Thailand bwahaha

thats the best one ive ever heard.

think you would get more reliable results with a truth detecter.

[Oziex1]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

Lie detector tests are about a scientific as Voodoo.

Lie detectors in thailand, they would need to got to 11.

[FinChin67]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

Lie detector tests are about a scientific as Voodoo.

I thought Voodoo is reserved exclusively for BiB?

This is why I thought the lie detector would be fair to use on the suspects. Why not on BiB as well..

[Mooner]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

< snip >

For many, myself included, this is 2 videos of the same person, despite the grainy images.

Watch the walking styles closely.

Unusual and they match perfectly. Just my opinion.

Yes -- compare the walking style:

Amusing JLCrab but its an pertinent point. Gait technology is an interesting tool as everybodys walking style differs. This technology helped catch the Jamie Bulger killers through CCTV footage a long while ago in the UK.

[Baerboxer]

an absolute shambles the police now state the evidence is all used up how farcical can it get , the main suspect in the case who it is alleged fled the island shortly after the murders was found to be in Bangkok so the police released him his university pals said he showed up with scratches all over his arms obviously this wasn't followed up by the police I wonder why, the whole thing smells and its not a nice smell.

They know what they'd like the answer to be, They know what their bosses and their bosses' boss would like the answer to be, Some people are also possible kind in rewarding them for doing a sterling job and ensuring the right solution is found.

Add together their own desired result, their desire to please their bosses at various levels and the rewards available for "doing a good job". Surprise surprise some things get followed up but many don't. If the don't fit the result they are simply ignored.

Records of all phone calls could have been interesting. Releasing all CCTV images and appealing for public help in recognizing those images. Allowing witnesses such as McAnna to leave the country, apparently ignoring all foreign visitor in the bar that night who may have had valuable statements to make or even photos of interest. The crime scene farce, the constant contradictions about the ability with DNA testing, the changing of senior officers, the changing of announced "key" suspects, the now seemingly non availability of samples for retesting etc etc .

What starts off as a bugger's muddle of a farce quickly becomes something controlled by those in charge and folds out the way they want to the result they want. How many times do we see that in Thailand? Sadly, this will be no different. What's expedient, in the best interests of Thailand as they perceive, doesn't cause any harm to the powerful and puts a few baht in pockets. That's their idea of a win win. Nothing to do with the truth or justice which is of little interest to a society who accept lying, cheating and corruption as normal.

The opposite side of the coin has those who have decided they know all about it, who did, how with what weapons and it's all a big conspiracy; all based on the speculative notions of some social media posters. No doubt they also know who shot JFK, if the moon landings were real (Putin would love the hear from you) and who really sank the Titanic which may have been the sister ship anyway. I hope society doesn't degenerate into trial by social media where some seem to think the can point the finger and demand people are arrested and subjected to tests. However bad the RTP are, trial by social media is not the answer. Not everyone tells the truth on social media - shock horror.

The chances of a thorough professional police investigation, of all suspects, witnesses and evidence here is about as rare as rocking horse &lt;deleted&gt;, The chances of a fair trial aren't much better.

The full story of what really happened that night will never be allowed to surface.

[Johnniey]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

Lie detectors!! In Thailand bwahaha

thats the best one ive ever heard.

think you would get more reliable results with a truth detecter.

What a racial thing to say. My wife is Thai, my 3 kids half Thai and I take personal insult to your ignorance.

Of course none of your family are Thai - wh would you gt involved with one of these liars?

[GOLDBUGGY]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

[Oziex1]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Your summary pretty well nails the situation spot on. Without the spotlight of first world media attention shining on them, the prosecution would have wrapped this case up weeks ago. But now they have to adhere to Western standards of justice, including showing 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that the accused committed the murders.

What is being revealed instead is how the Thai justice system actually works. Little things like this is a trial in front of a tribunal and not a jury of peers. They must be pretty uncomfortable being under the microscope of Western standards and opinion. It's easy to shrug off Thai Visa - we're essentially non-entities; it's not so easy to shrug off The Guardian, other Western media sources, and their reader/viewer base.

"But now they have to adhere to Western standards of justice, including showing 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that the accused committed the murders."

No I don't think they are going to lift their game to Western standards, they may feel uncomfortable with the international scrutiny, the may well be squirming a little. In the end the outcome will be dictated by Thai justice not our idea of what justice is, and if the outcome is influenced by the international scrutiny it is still unlikely to come up to our expectations.

[BoristheBlade]

I think they should put these two on a boat to the main land, truck them to the border and release them. Then get busy finding the real killers. If it is part of the Mafia down there, then send the Army in and clean up the whole island.

Great comment, but I fear that senior members of the men in green are part of the gang....if you follow my drift....

[kannot]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

not reliable

[Rykbanlor]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

This I will concur - There are botches in other places, The UK case of the murder of Rachel Nickell in 1992 and the entrapment of Colin Stagg who the Police decided was their prime suspect. He spent time in custody but at least the judicial system worked when the Judge threw the case out and berated the POlice - Police misconduct and incompetence was shocking in that case.

The rest of your post starts to get away from me. What are you on about, bringing the worlds problems for Thailand to solve?

And you seem to have a problem with migrants rights and Andy Hall. Why shouldn't he be demanding a fair trial. Just because the Thai system is like this, doesn't mean we all have to look the other way.

In fact your post doesn't even deserve this deconstruction.

Also, on an unrelated note for some other posters to think about, while there may be a lot of stereotypes of Thai people that are true, I think it's a little shortsighted to generalise and call them all thieves and liars. Maybe you need to expand your circles if these are the only Thai people you come into contact with. Also the number of people who live here for many years and still can't speak the language to even a small extent is embarrasing.

I don't mean to offend anyone as I know there are genuine reasons why some people may find it hard, but a great many don't try and spend their time grumbling about how stupid the locals are. Earn your stripes and your opinion might have more weight.

[DLang]

Not necessarily. Think about it. The son of the headman is from a family worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. How often does he get laid? Does he need to rape?

Actually there is no correlation between wealth and the urge to rape.

Was it one of Vidal Sassoon's heirs that was sentenced to decades in a LA prison for 3 counts of rape?

Edit:

No, it was a Max Factor heir.

"Luster had been supported by a $3.1 million trust fund as he traveled and surfed at various beaches. He was convicted of a series of rapes in 2003"

Now doing 50 years in prison. Ouch!

[DLang]

Any updates on what's happening in the joke-shop court yesterday and today?

[docshock13]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

Hi GB, I read and re-read the article that you posted a link to claiming there was an eye witness to the crime. For the life of me, I could not find any reference in that article about an eye witness. Perhaps I missed something. If I did, could you please re-post quoting the reference to the eye witness? As this would be crucial evidence to the case, I'm surprised said eye witness has not been identified or asked to provide testimony at the trial.

[docshock13]

Any updates on what's happening in the joke-shop court yesterday and today?

Court not back in session until 22/7. Court schedule posted earlier in this voluminous thread somewhere.

[StealthEnergiser]

I think they should put these two on a boat to the main land, truck them to the border and release them. Then get busy finding the real killers. If it is part of the Mafia down there, then send the Army in and clean up the whole island.

Great comment, but I fear that senior members of the men in green are part of the gang....if you follow my drift....

I honestly don't think Prayuth is aware of police incompetence in this case i think he has been fed bs and believed it , it's time the embassy officials from both countries involved to call a meeting directly with him.

[bamukloy]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

Lie detectors!! In Thailand bwahaha

thats the best one ive ever heard.

think you would get more reliable results with a truth detecter.

What a racial thing to say. My wife is Thai, my 3 kids half Thai and I take personal insult to your ignorance.

Of course none of your family are Thai - wh would you gt involved with one of these liars?

well for a start, it was a lighthearted dig at the mention of lie detectors in the context of this thread, and the way in which this case is panning out..not to have a swipe at the whole population.

And yes, i have caught my thai partner out in a lie..same as she has caught me.We all do it, and sometimes justify it as neccesary to protect the other persons feelings.

You cant deny a good deal of daily human interactions everywhere, relie on lieing.

But it does make me wonder if you've had any work or school or any other interactions with Thais here, how youve not noticed it?

[HughJass]

everything falls or stands with 100 % proof of DNA.

If thai police and government are sure they are correct, why not let it retested ? dna of the sperm must clear everything...

why keep it unclear why create doubts

Not necessarily. Think about it. The son of the headman is from a family worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. How often does he get laid? Does he need to rape? He could have very easily forced one of his soldiers to rape Hannah, then killed her. So, what does the DNA prove then? I think the likelihood he is guilty of murder is extremely high. I think the chances he is guilty of rape are extremely low. So, the DNA may prove nothing. I think the chances these two Burmese are guilty is next to zero. When they were arrested, they were casually playing football. Three weeks after this brutal crime. Would guilty men stay on the island for weeks afterwards? Very few would. Not the behavior of murderers.

there can be no other explanation

this is such a small island run by the headmans family where it would be impossible to keep the circumstances of an event like this secret. it is in the families best business and financial interests to see the real culprits caught and punished but since members of that family are doubtless involved the charade continues

the crime was solved by the RTP very quickly .....September 23, 2014

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

[GOLDBUGGY]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

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Hi GB, I read and re-read the article that you posted a link to claiming there was an eye witness to the crime. For the life of me, I could not find any reference in that article about an eye witness. Perhaps I missed something. If I did, could you please re-post quoting the reference to the eye witness? As this would be crucial evidence to the case, I'm surprised said eye witness has not been identified or asked to provide testimony at the trial.

You need to hit the link

[bamukloy]

Goldbuggy,

Come off it mate! Surely you dont really believe what you are writing?

The TRP used a lot of resources and manpower...??

they show up in court claiming no photos..because no budget??!!!

Photos, the LEAST of evidence that anyone would expect to see, without question, in a courtcase this big.

there are pics all over the net, of the crimescene and injuries to the victims, even pics of police taking pics!

Everyone has pics..except the BiB.

I dont personally dont get off on badmouthing the police, but really..

So how do you explain it?