Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[stephenterry]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

Zaw Lin, 22 and Wai Phyo, 21, pleaded not guilty to the murders, rape and robbery of Witheridge and Miller on the island of Koh Tao.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

He said that he also found a hair in Witheridge's hand that he thought was blonde. "It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour. To my eyes, it was blonde," he said, according to

A hair sample found in the dead victim's hand (if by now not also lost/mislaid or whatever) could be DNA retested by the defence. Why didn't they pounce on that at the trial? For god's sake, it's not rocket science to establish whether the hair sample is available or not.

[Si Thea01]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

OK I am not in the UK, however isn't The Sun a popular tabloid that may be read by people looking for a value for money getaway to Thailand.

If it stops a few spending their hard earned in Koh Tao then it's all good.

Agree on that - Anything that can stop people going to that disgusting Island is a good thing - If B2 gets convicted then anything stopping people from going to Thailand is a good thing ... I will try to do something on Thai-Forum in my homecountry to warn people about going here ...

So the whole of Thailand is responsible? I hope you apply the same ridiculous, misguided logic to all countries but I somewhat doubt it.

Couldn't agree with you more. This misguided soul wants to punish 68 million people for the actions of a few. A thoughtful gesture, I don't think.

[thailandchilli]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

Zaw Lin, 22 and Wai Phyo, 21, pleaded not guilty to the murders, rape and robbery of Witheridge and Miller on the island of Koh Tao.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

He said that he also found a hair in Witheridge's hand that he thought was blonde. "It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour. To my eyes, it was blonde," he said, according to

A hair sample found in the dead victim's hand (if by now not also lost/mislaid or whatever) could be DNA retested by the defence. Why didn't they pounce on that at the trial? For god's sake, it's not rocket science to establish whether the hair sample is available or not.

mmmm but the RTP already covered that one by way of saying it was lost, later to be denied and instead finished, how do you finish a hair sample????? Also notice in that report that it is indeed the Autopsy Report from the UK that the defense has. I pray their UK Forensics expert when its the defenses turn in Sept turns this case upside down.

A hair sample found in Miss Witheridge's hand was among samples that were lost, he said. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33457038

[DennisF]

Its not fair to tar the whole of Thailand for something that happened in a small island run by so called mafia.

I guess it's just the idea that one day, one could be murdered by a Thai and nothing happens to the perp as they haves connections. Could happen anywhere in Thailand.

I hear what you are saying but it is not just Thailand.

Even in the UK there is an ongoing investigation into the Paedo ring where children were abused and allegedly murdered.

The people accused of these crimes are and were influential and seem to be getting away with it.

A difference in the Kho Tao case is the social media and international attention it is getting.

Unpunished murders perpetrated by "people of influence" happens all over the World, unfortunately.

All that being said I do believe the B2 are innocent, based on the evidence I am aware of, and also that there is protection of the real murderers

from someone or some people of "even greater influence".

I do not subscribe to many of the conspiracy theories, too many holes and too much guesswork but, something smells so follow the money.

[stephenterry]

Agree on that - Anything that can stop people going to that disgusting Island is a good thing - If B2 gets convicted then anything stopping people from going to Thailand is a good thing ... I will try to do something on Thai-Forum in my homecountry to warn people about going here ...

So the whole of Thailand is responsible? I hope you apply the same ridiculous, misguided logic to all countries but I somewhat doubt it.

Couldn't agree with you more. This misguided soul wants to punish 68 million people for the actions of a few. A thoughtful gesture, I don't think.

I would suggest the point being made is the Thai (un)justice system is at fault (money buys justice), and this murder mis-investigation is not an isolated incident, but is replicated and has been replicated for decades. Until there are sea changes in Thai society attitudes and behaviour, it will continue.

[minikev]

It seems that any new news from the so far 3 days of trial has been pretty much discussed till exhausted on here now. Now just the bickering.

It's important to keep checking in to see if anyone has anything new to offer but I think I'll wait for the trial to open again before taking part in discussion.

Sifting through the bickering posts is really boring as I always feel I have to read all just in case there are new pieces of information. To the people who say" it's just my opinion you don't have to red it" Please at least do a little research before posting stuff.

[BritTim]

If the RTP's DNA trail continues to self-destruct, then the court will have to declare a mistrial and/or acquit. Anything else will paint them in to a highly subjective corner.

I really hope you are right. My fear is that the court may be willing to convict based on the coerced confessions alone. Whatever other evidence is "lost" or "used up", I predict the RTP will have been careful to hold onto those. Unless the defence has some fairly convincing exculpatory evidence, the Burmese kids are not safe.

[stephenterry]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

Zaw Lin, 22 and Wai Phyo, 21, pleaded not guilty to the murders, rape and robbery of Witheridge and Miller on the island of Koh Tao. They claim that they were forced to confess to the murders and have since withdrawn their confessions.

The defence team, appointed by the Lawyers' Council of Thailand, has said that it had received forensic and autopsy reports from the UK authorities that were not consistent with the findings of the Thai authorities.

On claims that forensic evidence was missing, National Police Chief Somyot Poompunmuang clarified that the forensic evidence were no longer in the custody of police as they had been sent to the Institute of Forensic Medicine.

He said the re-examination of the DNA evidence is still possible, Bangkok Post reported.

Earlier, police doctor Pawat Prateepwitsurut, who conducted the autopsies on the victims after their bodies were flown to Bangkok on 15 September 2014, told the court that Witheridge had been sexually assaulted and died of severe head injuries caused by an instrument with a sharp blade.

He said that he also found a hair in Witheridge's hand that he thought was blonde. "It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour. To my eyes, it was blonde," he said, according to The Telegraph.

Miller had cuts on his arms, possibly as a result of trying to defend himself. He had received a number of blows to the head, while scratches on his arms suggested that he was dragged along the beach. Dr Pawat said water found in Miller's lungs indicated his death was caused by drowning.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

He said that he also found a hair in Witheridge's hand that he thought was blonde. "It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour. To my eyes, it was blonde," he said, according to

A hair sample found in the dead victim's hand (if by now not also lost/mislaid or whatever) could be DNA retested by the defence. Why didn't they pounce on that at the trial? For god's sake, it's not rocket science to establish whether the hair sample is available or not.

mmmm but the RTP already covered that one by way of saying it was lost, later to be denied and instead finished, how do you finish a hair sample????? Also notice in that report that it is indeed the Autopsy Report from the UK that the defense has. I pray their UK Forensics expert when its the defenses turn in Sept turns this case upside down.

A hair sample found in Miss Witheridge's hand was among samples that were lost, he said. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33457038

Excuse my pond-life expletives, but this sample 'lost' is total B/S and a bare-faced lie. And while I was willing to be open-minded before this trial commenced, I am now fully convinced of the B2's innocence, for the very good reason that if they had been guilty, NO samples would have been lost or finished.

And I hope that the UK autopsy report crucifies the prosecution. At the very least, it will be all over the UK media to bring shame on a sham.

[StealthEnergiser]

British tourist's last moments alive is shown on CCTV in Thailand

why hasn't number 9 been identified ? Or was identified early on in the investigation.

where is the rest of the cctv footage maybe he is one of the first suspects.

[catsanddogs]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

Zaw Lin, 22 and Wai Phyo, 21, pleaded not guilty to the murders, rape and robbery of Witheridge and Miller on the island of Koh Tao. They claim that they were forced to confess to the murders and have since withdrawn their confessions.

The defence team, appointed by the Lawyers' Council of Thailand, has said that it had received forensic and autopsy reports from the UK authorities that were not consistent with the findings of the Thai authorities.

On claims that forensic evidence was missing, National Police Chief Somyot Poompunmuang clarified that the forensic evidence were no longer in the custody of police as they had been sent to the Institute of Forensic Medicine.

He said the re-examination of the DNA evidence is still possible, Bangkok Post reported.

Earlier, police doctor Pawat Prateepwitsurut, who conducted the autopsies on the victims after their bodies were flown to Bangkok on 15 September 2014, told the court that Witheridge had been sexually assaulted and died of severe head injuries caused by an instrument with a sharp blade.

He said that he also found a hair in Witheridge's hand that he thought was blonde. "It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour. To my eyes, it was blonde," he said, according to The Telegraph.

Miller had cuts on his arms, possibly as a result of trying to defend himself. He had received a number of blows to the head, while scratches on his arms suggested that he was dragged along the beach. Dr Pawat said water found in Miller's lungs indicated his death was caused by drowning.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

He said that he also found a hair in Witheridge's hand that he thought was blonde. "It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour. To my eyes, it was blonde," he said, according to

A hair sample found in the dead victim's hand (if by now not also lost/mislaid or whatever) could be DNA retested by the defence. Why didn't they pounce on that at the trial? For god's sake, it's not rocket science to establish whether the hair sample is available or not.

mmmm but the RTP already covered that one by way of saying it was lost, later to be denied and instead finished, how do you finish a hair sample????? Also notice in that report that it is indeed the Autopsy Report from the UK that the defense has. I pray their UK Forensics expert when its the defenses turn in Sept turns this case upside down.

A hair sample found in Miss Witheridge's hand was among samples that were lost, he said. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33457038

Excuse my pond-life expletives, but this sample 'lost' is total B/S and a bare-faced lie. And while I was willing to be open-minded before this trial commenced, I am now fully convinced of the B2's innocence, for the very good reason that if they had been guilty, NO samples would have been lost or finished.

And I hope that the UK autopsy report crucifies the prosecution. At the very least, it will be all over the UK media to bring shame on a sham.

Here here! Absolutely. I hope the B2 are aware of the global support they have and that it in some way helps them to stay strong.

[stephenterry]

If the RTP's DNA trail continues to self-destruct, then the court will have to declare a mistrial and/or acquit. Anything else will paint them in to a highly subjective corner.

I really hope you are right. My fear is that the court may be willing to convict based on the coerced confessions alone. Whatever other evidence is "lost" or "used up", I predict the RTP will have been careful to hold onto those. Unless the defence has some fairly convincing exculpatory evidence, the Burmese kids are not safe.

BT - it is my understanding that any 'confessions' are ignored by the court. It is a moot point, though, as the court does not have to explain their verdicts. So it is feasible that the B2 could be convicted whatever the defence say or do, and then let the Court of Appeal and the Supreme court to overturn or accept the verdicts.

It will be an intriguing trial, that's for sure.

[stickylies]

I guess it's just the idea that one day, one could be murdered by a Thai and nothing happens to the perp as they haves connections. Could happen anywhere in Thailand.

Maybe, but if you keep a low profile (ie. mind your own business, in peace) and use your brain chances are extremely little such a thing will happen to you. The problem is many foreigners come here with zero knowledge about the place, except for what is written in Lonely Planet. Not saying these people are stupid, they are simply ignorant which is tricky in this part of the world.

A big problem imo is the utter misinterpretation of the Thai smile. Many foreigners have no idea how arrogant they are perceived (unintended or not). They also have no idea how their comments (or jokes) are considered extremely rude, often resulting in face-losing situations (where the offended party is laughing).

Thailand is not what it used to be just like the world is not the same place it was 25 years ago. (Narcissistic) Rage and violence will increase here, suicide will increase here, criminality will increase here, drug abuse will increase here, obesitas will increase here, etc.

This is not the 70-80's anymore with 10 bamboo huts on an island and a bunch of Big Lebowsky dudes. This is 2015 (and I'm not a big fan of it).

[Mooner]

We were all told by the few to wait for the trial to see how the wounds were inflicted to David as we were not forensics and that the DNA would prove the guilty party. So what do we have now?

DNA used up? DNA in Bangkok. Dont have the resources to store photographic evidence(Dear Lord that one is comical).

How can anyone side with the RTP. If these statements are true then how could anyone trust them to investigate a double murder investigation and store DNA correctly when they cant save a photo.

Seems like the conspiracy theorist are sitting on the other side of the fence!

[joebrown]

Due to incompetence and corruption...

Much of the evidence against the B2 had been discredited and if the trial continues it is likely to discredit the whole of the Thai judicial system.

It also means that it is highly unlikely that the real perpetrators of these murders will ever be successfully prosecuted, this is an injustice to family and friends of Hannah and David.

What seems so amassing is how the RTP are so incompetent in securing the integrity of a crime scene, not just this case but virtually ever crime reported we see the crime scene compromised, surly every police officer should know how to secure a crime scene, evidence should be taken and kept in as manor as not to discredit it at a trail.

Most appealing thing of all is the number of explicit evidential photos that should not have made it to the public domain.

I agree with the comments made in your post.

You comment on the inability of the Thai police to properly secure a crime scene. Have you ever given any serious thought as to why this is? We've been told (by the Thai PM, I think) that the Thai police work from the same 'textbook' as the UK's Metropolitan Police, but that's only part of the story. Thai culture, and that of their police is such that crimes are much easier to deal with if there are 'grey areas' and nothing is either 'black or white'. In this scenario of 'grey opaqueness' it's much easier to re create and adjust evidence to suit whatever motives the police or their superiors wish for. This includes being able to hide/protect the names of HiSo individuals and/or those with enough power and money. If a crime scene is 100% 'black & white' for the whole world to see then it's much more difficult to hide the truth.

In most cases the Thai police can usually escape questioning and scrutiny, but these murders have really thrown up a whole new 'can of worms' because of it's international implications, and the fact that they are not dealing with the usual 'sheeple'.

[Globeman]

Sean knows what happened. Read between the lines of his Facebook posts "I know you tried to stop it" and "you're the most honorable man I've ever met". David came across this savagery as did Sean.... David fought and paid with his life, Sean was warned away and ran. Sean is a coward and he is in part responsible. Find the little weasel and lets get to the bottom of this.

it's interesting that David probably died first as he fought with those who were in the process of the rape, once David suffered a fatal deadly attack then Hannah's fate was also sealed, there is no way they would have left a witness to Davids murder - she may have been left alive and abused but not murdered if David hadn't intervened

If you look at the unedited photos of Hannah, it is plain that these guys weren't just eliminating a witness; they were expressing extreme violent rage. And it should be interesting in court when the defense asks the relevant prosecution witness (the police) to explain the logistics of how only two men who are about 5'4" managed to keep both from running away, and subdued a young fit male who was about 6'3". I wonder if the defense is going to ask about why David's knife wounds were described by police as inflicted by a hoe. Looking at Hannah's wounds, a hoe is believable as the murder weapon, but David's are totally different and look exactly like stab wound samples you can find with a quick google search. And with knife wounds, because of angles and clearer evidence of applied force, any forensic specialist can ascertain or at least make valid speculations about all sorts of stuff, like the assailant's height, the favoured hand of the attacker, if there was only one person involved, etc. As an example, if there are no stab wounds on the arms (stabbed while defending their face), then it suggests more than one assailant, or tied hands, etc... Pornthip is capable of this sort of work... but they kept her well out of it. Apparently she is quite keen to do the secondary DNA analysis though.

[BritTim]

Excuse my pond-life expletives, but this sample 'lost' is total B/S and a bare-faced lie. And while I was willing to be open-minded before this trial commenced, I am now fully convinced of the B2's innocence, for the very good reason that if they had been guilty, NO samples would have been lost or finished.

And I hope that the UK autopsy report crucifies the prosecution. At the very least, it will be all over the UK media to bring shame on a sham.

Here here! Absolutely. I hope the B2 are aware of the global support they have and that it in some way helps them to stay strong.

Here here! Absolutely. I hope the B2 are aware of the global support they have and that it in some way helps them to stay strong.

While really hoping for an acquittal, I fear all our support may only have doomed the Burmese kids to a harsher sentence. It is a well known fact that scapegoats in Thailand, especially if migrant workers, should plead guilty as it leads to a lighter sentence. I think that received wisdom played a part in the Burmese kids' original willingness to "confess" to the murders.

[Si Thea01]

Agree on that - Anything that can stop people going to that disgusting Island is a good thing - If B2 gets convicted then anything stopping people from going to Thailand is a good thing ... I will try to do something on Thai-Forum in my homecountry to warn people about going here ...

Stephenterry.

Quote>I would suggest the point being made is the Thai (un)justice system is at fault (money buys justice), and this murder mis-investigation is not an isolated incident, but is replicated and has been replicated for decades. Until there are sea changes in Thai society attitudes and behaviour, it will continue.<End quote

If that's the point being made, then he sure has a funny way of putting it but then this is only your suggestion that this is the point he's making when he starts off with, "stopping people going to the island," then, "stopping people going to Thailand," then "warning people about coming here." How you've been able to suggest that what you have written is the point he was making in what he wrote is beyond me. I would say that what you have written is your opinion and nothing to do with the comments he made. Wouldn't you?

[sambum]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.

The answer is simple - chain of command, the PM lifts the phone and talks with the Chief of Police, he tells him I need this sorted asap as I am being pressured directly by the British PM, the Chief of police reviews the case and sends someone he believes will take over and get a result, neither the PM or the COP will have instructed anyone to look for scape goats but will have been very direct in requiring progress and a resolution as quickly as possible - that is how I see it

Why would the British PM make such a call when UK investigators have indicated to the victim's family the police nabbed the right people for these crimes and the evidence is strong against them.

I suggest you read the post properly - there was nothing said about the British PM making any phone calls - the reference was to the Thai PM.

And the only reason why the "UK investigators have indicated to the victim's family the police nabbed the right people for these crimes and the evidence is strong against them" is that the UK investigators are basing their opinions on the evidence that they themselves have been allowed to see by the RTP, but there again you know that already. And I notice that the families didn't hang around the trial for too long - either because the "facts" were too upsetting for them, or they realised (in light of the latest fiasco re "finished" and "lost" DNA that all is not as they were originally led to believe. Or maybe they plan to return when the defence team come up with new revelations? (Ooops, sorry, "conspiracy theory", or as one of your followers would have it "Grand Conspiracy Theory">

[sambum]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.

The answer is simple - chain of command, the PM lifts the phone and talks with the Chief of Police, he tells him I need this sorted asap as I am being pressured directly by the British PM, the Chief of police reviews the case and sends someone he believes will take over and get a result, neither the PM or the COP will have instructed anyone to look for scape goats but will have been very direct in requiring progress and a resolution as quickly as possible - that is how I see it

Yes, and what could be more convenient than a couple of lowly Burmese who don't understand the language, or what they are being told, and "No Thai could have done it" anyway.

[Jai Dee]

A post containing a photograph and Burmese script has been removed from this thread.

From the Forum Rules:

English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[stephenterry]

Agree on that - Anything that can stop people going to that disgusting Island is a good thing - If B2 gets convicted then anything stopping people from going to Thailand is a good thing ... I will try to do something on Thai-Forum in my homecountry to warn people about going here ...

Stephenterry.

Quote>I would suggest the point being made is the Thai (un)justice system is at fault (money buys justice), and this murder mis-investigation is not an isolated incident, but is replicated and has been replicated for decades. Until there are sea changes in Thai society attitudes and behaviour, it will continue.<End quote

If that's the point being made, then he sure has a funny way of putting it but then this is only your suggestion that this is the point he's making when he starts off with, "stopping people going to the island," then, "stopping people going to Thailand," then "warning people about coming here." How you've been able to suggest that what you have written is the point he was making in what he wrote is beyond me. I would say that what you have written is your opinion and nothing to do with the comments he made. Wouldn't you?

My rationale is quite clear. I suggest you absorb the implications that anyone coming here, if they got into trouble and didn't have the necessary to bail them out, could be another victim of non-justice.

[loonodingle]

Text in Burmese removed............

[stephenterry]

Excuse my pond-life expletives, but this sample 'lost' is total B/S and a bare-faced lie. And while I was willing to be open-minded before this trial commenced, I am now fully convinced of the B2's innocence, for the very good reason that if they had been guilty, NO samples would have been lost or finished.

And I hope that the UK autopsy report crucifies the prosecution. At the very least, it will be all over the UK media to bring shame on a sham.

Here here! Absolutely. I hope the B2 are aware of the global support they have and that it in some way helps them to stay strong.

Here here! Absolutely. I hope the B2 are aware of the global support they have and that it in some way helps them to stay strong.

While really hoping for an acquittal, I fear all our support may only have doomed the Burmese kids to a harsher sentence. It is a well known fact that scapegoats in Thailand, especially if migrant workers, should plead guilty as it leads to a lighter sentence. I think that received wisdom played a part in the Burmese kids' original willingness to "confess" to the murders.

A murder conviction carries a death penalty (probably later commuted to life imprisonment). I could be wrong, but I don't think a lighter sentence is an option if they plead guilty.

With a heavyweight defence team behind them, they have every chance of any conviction sentence here being overturned at the Court of Appeal. At 20+ years old, a risk worth taking, IMO.

[bunglebag]

Do not know how reliable this is but an article in the BP on the 24th October 2014, indicates that two weeks after the murders, three people were arrested, the two who have since been charged and a friend, who was treated by Police as an eye witness. To what I do not know, as it does not stipulate but maybe this is what GB was referring to. It appears that his name I Maung. If I can locate it, why can't you? Maybe you should try a little harder, remember, seek and ye shall find.

Is this the eye witness that allegedly was having a drink with the defendants before going home to bed and not actually witnessing anything?

Can't help you with that the media report wasn't that detailed. It did list his name and said he was a friend, that's all I can say, other than to reiterate I cannot vouch for the veracity of the report.

if it was Muang (sp?) then according to previous reports it didn't sound like he witnessed anything of much significance to the case as he went home. I am open to correction though

This is Maungs story but bear in mind this was told to the Burmese Embassy team while Maung was still in custody and had the RTP and rotti pancake seller monitoring every word:

A third Burmese man, Maung Maung, who is being held in custody as a witness to a case involving the murder of two British tourists on the Thai island of Koh Tao, said he did not witness the killing.

His two friends, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are currently being held on the neighbouring island of Koh Samui, pending charges of murder and rape.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said he and a Burmese embassy team, which included Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand (MAT), was given permission by the Thai police on Koh Samui to question Maung Maung on Wednesday, although he noted that the interview was given in the presence of police officers.

“According to the testimony of Maung Maung, who shared accommodation with the two suspects [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun], they were all three drinking and playing guitar on the night of the incident,” the Burmese lawyer told DVB. “Maung Maung said he left the scene at around 1am after they finished one bottle of beer each, but the two stayed – apparently they wanted to continue drinking and playing guitar. He did mention that there was an ‘English’ or ‘Western’ couple at some point.”

MAT representative Kyaw Thaung reconfirmed the testimony the legal team had been told. “After finishing the beer and cigarettes, Maung Maung said he told his two friends he was leaving, but they insisted on having more to drink, so he went back to the room and got an extra bottle of alcohol and took it to them. That was all around 1am,” he said.

“Maung Maung said he then went to see his girlfriend and did not return until 5am.”

More to read here http://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/

So as there is cctv of David walking up the strip to look for Hannah somewhere around 1.30am then we can assume that the western couple to which he might refer would not be Hannah and David as he must have met them before he left at 1am. Correct?

[fish fingers]

Dont have the resources to store photographic evidence(Dear Lord that one is comical).

Did the police or courts actually say that?

[glenmohr]

Agree on that - Anything that can stop people going to that disgusting Island is a good thing - If B2 gets convicted then anything stopping people from going to Thailand is a good thing ... I will try to do something on Thai-Forum in my homecountry to warn people about going here ...

Stephenterry.

Quote>I would suggest the point being made is the Thai (un)justice system is at fault (money buys justice), and this murder mis-investigation is not an isolated incident, but is replicated and has been replicated for decades. Until there are sea changes in Thai society attitudes and behaviour, it will continue.<End quote

If that's the point being made, then he sure has a funny way of putting it but then this is only your suggestion that this is the point he's making when he starts off with, "stopping people going to the island," then, "stopping people going to Thailand," then "warning people about coming here." How you've been able to suggest that what you have written is the point he was making in what he wrote is beyond me. I would say that what you have written is your opinion and nothing to do with the comments he made. Wouldn't you?

My rationale is quite clear. I suggest you absorb the implications that anyone coming here, if they got into trouble and didn't have the necessary to bail them out, could be another victim of non-justice.

You do an awful lot of suggesting don't you? I certainly do not need you to tell me to absorb the implications of anything. If someone coming here, gets themselves into trouble, more fool them. It is the same when one goes to any other country, not only Thailand. I have no sympathy for those who create problems, and when caught they carry on like morons (mainly drug or alcohol induced) then expect sympathy and others to help them out.

When one travels they should they familiarise themselves with the countries rules and regulations, or is it fair that they just carry on like arrogant fools and do what they like regardless, which many of them do when they are away from home. They may well be a victim of the country's justice system, just remember, one reaps what he sows. And as far as your rationale being quite clear, if you say so but I think it is unsound.

And' as I previously said, what you wrote was your opinion, nothing to do with the point that the other poster was making and by your own words, "your rationale", you have confirmed what I stated. This is all about you, you and you, nothing more, nothing less. My opinion, your opinion. And I am not suggesting you do anything.

I think SK's implications are quite clear, cannot for the life of me understand which part you do not get Thea? His comments are well written and easy to understand , or is it a case of too many foreign ladies wearing bikinis in Thailand and therefore deserving to be murdered as quoted by the great hero and defender of bangkok?

[glenmohr]

Agree on that - Anything that can stop people going to that disgusting Island is a good thing - If B2 gets convicted then anything stopping people from going to Thailand is a good thing ... I will try to do something on Thai-Forum in my homecountry to warn people about going here ...

Stephenterry.

Quote>I would suggest the point being made is the Thai (un)justice system is at fault (money buys justice), and this murder mis-investigation is not an isolated incident, but is replicated and has been replicated for decades. Until there are sea changes in Thai society attitudes and behaviour, it will continue.<End quote

If that's the point being made, then he sure has a funny way of putting it but then this is only your suggestion that this is the point he's making when he starts off with, "stopping people going to the island," then, "stopping people going to Thailand," then "warning people about coming here." How you've been able to suggest that what you have written is the point he was making in what he wrote is beyond me. I would say that what you have written is your opinion and nothing to do with the comments he made. Wouldn't you?

My rationale is quite clear. I suggest you absorb the implications that anyone coming here, if they got into trouble and didn't have the necessary to bail them out, could be another victim of non-justice.

You do an awful lot of suggesting don't you? I certainly do not need you to tell me to absorb the implications of anything. If someone coming here, gets themselves into trouble, more fool them. It is the same when one goes to any other country, not only Thailand. I have no sympathy for those who create problems, and when caught they carry on like morons (mainly drug or alcohol induced) then expect sympathy and others to help them out.

When one travels they should they familiarise themselves with the countries rules and regulations, or is it fair that they just carry on like arrogant fools and do what they like regardless, which many of them do when they are away from home. They may well be a victim of the country's justice system, just remember, one reaps what he sows. And as far as your rationale being quite clear, if you say so but I think it is unsound.

And' as I previously said, what you wrote was your opinion, nothing to do with the point that the other poster was making and by your own words, "your rationale", you have confirmed what I stated. This is all about you, you and you, nothing more, nothing less. My opinion, your opinion. And I am not suggesting you do anything.

I think SK's implications are quite clear, cannot for the life of me understand which part you do not get Thea? His comments are well written and easy to understand , or is it a case of too many foreign ladies wearing bikinis in Thailand and therefore deserving to be murdered as quoted by the great hero and defender of bangkok?

[thailandchilli]

Dont have the resources to store photographic evidence(Dear Lord that one is comical).

Did the police or courts actually say that?

[Rykbanlor]

From time to time there are posters that are quick to jump down your throat and spray out supercilious remarks whilst no doubt eyeing you down the length of their proverbial noses.

Us lowly feeble-minded plebs should feel a little compassion for them though, because it's probably cold and lonely up there on their pedestals.

[bunglebag]

From popular Facebook site.

Koh Tao locals (Thais) seemed to find the brutal murders amusing and even posted reenactment photos on Facebook

kotao.jpg

...and those are just some of the insensitive, almost taunting photos by those folks, some of whom may be the actual criminals. Not long after the crime, there was a copy-cat murder. A German man was relaxing at a park, daytime, I think it was Sukuthai or somewhere just north of Bkk, and he was attacked by a young Thai wielding a hoe - for no apparent reason, except perhaps the Thai was inspired by the recent killings at KT.

Note in that montage, the photo at middle right. It's big-ears cop, the same who joined Mon when threatening Sean's life. Big Ears is posing with a rifle and a pistol. In a reasonably thorough investigation, he would be squarely among 'persons of interest' including DNA typed. But because he's a cop and he's tight with Mon, that's not possible. He's doubly teflon coated.

Did the German guy die? I know he was severely injured. But they must have got the wrong people for it because no Thai could ever do this.

And negative as to that being big ears in that picture I think - It's DJ David Love (AC bar). Do a google for that name + drummond and you will find an article with those pictures larger

The charming larger fella who couldn't control his urge to pose with a hoe after the murders

http://thumbsnap.com/CIspZAI6

is also linked to AC bar I far as I am aware? Can anyone confirm and/or advise in what capacity?

Same guy?

http://thumbsnap.com/2CuV8BPp