Becoming something other than an English teacher

[Soutpeel]

This thread is really depressing me.

I've met some people who were able to move on from teaching, but not many.

Been there, done that. A couple of guys are making it, but it was luck, and I say, good for them. I day/swing trade online during the evenings when the North American markets are open. It's kind of exciting, trading while out partying.

Back to the topic, I always tell ppl to research things thouroughly, as it's not like they roll out the red carpet, for "Whitey", as you have to really be special to get something on your own outside of teaching or being stationed there by your company. Come with enough savings for a year if you want to hit the pavement or scheme (legally) for something that will at least cover costs. It can be depressing, but it's an experience.

'as it's not like they roll out the red carpet, for "Whitey"'

Interesting perception of the skills & qualifications you feel you have to offer ... a pale complexion.

Not too many countries throw open their employment doors to foreigners of any race unless they possess specialize skills & experience in demand or have money to invest/spend. Surprisingly, most countries expect anyone coming to work or holiday or reside within their borders to somehow benefit the country, not compete with their own nationals for work.

Funny thing is plenty of jobs for the lilly whites if they have a skill sets which is in demand in Thailand

But nice to see the poster who made these comments is exhibiting the typical self entitlement found in so many lilly whites in Thailand, " i demand to treated well by the natives because i am whitey"

One can well understand why large numbers of Thai's actually dispise farangs

[Soutpeel]

I came to Thailand 10+ years ago as a teacher. I was able to move on to other things thanks to luck, networking, and effort. 6 jobs and 4 companies later I am still here. Networking is key to finding work from within Thailand in my opinion, and although it isn't easy, it is possible to do.

Having said that, I have met dozens of coders looking for employment at networking events. You might like to expand your horizons as work isn't as easy to find here as it is at home, so we can't afford to be as fussy. This is not to say you won't find something you enjoy.

One last thing.... presentation is also very important. 'Farangs' in Thailand are judged an pigeon holed on how they look almost immediately.

Good luck

I look Japanese.

I think Katipo mean't how they dress.

I see farangs in Bangkok dressed like vagrants. Granted they might be on holiday but personally I like to look smart (unless I'm actually on a beach).

Correct, as Sean said, I was referring to how you dress/present yourself.

"Fake it until you make it" ... or dress successfully and have a positive attitude

or get some marketable skills

[canarysun]

This has been discussed hundreds of times previously but for most people Thailand is not a good place to make money. The best solution is to work somewhere that the pay is good and save enough to retire in Thailand. In the intervening years, you could vacation in Thailand as you can afford it. This called delayed gratification. Good luck.

Kind respect to your kind self DogNo1 ( woof woof ) but yes you are correct in saying that Thailand is not a good place to make money.But money or the amount of money you have does not always mean a better quality life.Every day you should do what you like doing because it could be your last! Sometimes it's too late in life to wait until you are " a white haired pensioner & old enough to get a bus pass ".It's much better if you can enjoy " The Land Of Smiles " while you are young.( under 40 ) If it means earning a cool 10.000 baht a month then you can have a great life on that ( Many Thais do.... ) My Uncle worked all his life every day and was a millionaire and dropped dead suddenly at 52 years old.( not assassinated may i add... )

So do it now and don't wait!

Regards,

Farang Jaidee

[DividendGuy]

Thailand is a hard place to try and earn a living let alone have a career. I believe you will become depressed and have a very difficult time trying to scrape by on Thai wages and in the end give up and go home if you don't have enough money to live reasonable here. There are so many foreigners living here who are just making end meet and are forced to always go the cheap route because they came here unprepared. If you use your intelligence, make a plan, learn how to invest your money, in time you can figure out the best way for you to get what you want. If you come unprepared your stay here will most likely be difficult and possibly not for the long-term. I wish you well.

[ev1lchris]

I'm learning Python. There's quite a bit of tech Meetups out here. Honestly I think a lot of the people who replied are being overly cynical and judgemental.

There have been a few success stories. Some of the posters here have found success.

I'm willing to teach again for a year or so. I love Thailand. I love it more than my home country.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Python is a nice language but is a bit niche - I believe you'd find more work with Ruby/Rails and/or JavaScript - JS in particular is growing massively due to it now being a solid language on the server side (used extensively by Paypal, Netflix and many more), whereas Rails has levelled out a bit. Both of them however are more in demand than Python.

That said, if you get decent software engineering fundamentals with Python (and it is a good language with which to do so), you can cross train - you'll need to be continually learning for your entire career to be successful.

Edited July 15, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[sammygood]

are you a coder now ? as if you inspire to be in just 2 years ? or you mean one of them out of a ten thousands that makes silly websites that all look the same ?

work permit might be an issue and all you need is one angry (thai) customer or a jealous neighbor or friend and it is all over

[theoldgit]

Troll post removed.

[ecline]

I'm learning Python. There's quite a bit of tech Meetups out here. Honestly I think a lot of the people who replied are being overly cynical and judgemental.

There have been a few success stories. Some of the posters here have found success.

I'm willing to teach again for a year or so. I love Thailand. I love it more than my home country.

Python is a great language. There is nothing wrong with starting there. There is plenty of money to be made coding in Python. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. In my field, bioinformatics, Perl used to be the language of choice. It is still widely used, but Python has pretty much taken over and is used in large-scale analysis of genomics data. Virtually everything ever written in Perl for computational biology has been re-written in Python. Perl isn't going away, but Python is here to stay.

It is used in massively-parallel settings for data mining and machine learning. These are two of the hottest fields today. Admittedly, you need some mathematical maturity to be effective in these fields. But if you can get that under your belt, you are looking at a skillset that is worth big bucks in nearly any country you would choose to find work in, including Thailand.

If you are starting from scratch, give your self three years of hard study and you will be on your way. Best of luck whatever you decide to do!

[BlackArtemis]

I'm learning Python. There's quite a bit of tech Meetups out here. Honestly I think a lot of the people who replied are being overly cynical and judgemental.

There have been a few success stories. Some of the posters here have found success.

I'm willing to teach again for a year or so. I love Thailand. I love it more than my home country.

The most difficult thing and most rewarding thing I did was bite the bullet and moved back to the US for my education. It put me in a much better position for my future return to Thailand. If you are serious about coding, I would head back home, put myself into a school and grind it out with back to back classes, share a house and get a job that can be flexible around your studies. Talk to your advisor about what you want to do with this degree and if it's not a degree mill they will work with you to make sure you have highly marketable skills for distance work.

Yeah being away from Thailand can suck, but if it means that you will end up with a decent place to live, savings, and a good quality of life at 60+ rather than in a 3,000B dorm room with no AC, it's a worthwhile trade.

Good luck on your dreams.

[jspill]

But nice to see the poster who made these comments is exhibiting the typical self entitlement found in so many lilly whites in Thailand, " i demand to treated well by the natives because i am whitey"

One can well understand why large numbers of Thai's actually dispise farangs

I don't see any entitlement in the post you replied to. Reading things that aren't there.

[jspill]

@OP anyone can be a freelance writer online. Just being a native English speaker that can put sentences together without dozens of errors, puts you above the Filipinos and Indians that take the low paying jobs. They make a monthly income comparable to the cost of living in Thailand doing it, so you can make several times that.

Just do an advanced Google search for all Craigslist jobs with 'telecommuting is okay' in the ad, which means you can do it from anywhere in the world, e.g. Thailand. Expand it to all Craigslist domains (each city / country has a Craigslist) as it doesn't matter if it's on e.g. Chicago craiglist, if it can be done anywhere. And maybe an ad is only listed on one local domain. Then add filters like 'writing' and 'posted in last 24 hours' or whatever.

Here's a ready made search for you, it won't let me post the raw URL. You can hover your mouse over it and see it's just a link to Google.

At first offer to write for Filipino rates to get references, a portfolio and experience. Also get on Upwork (Odesk renamed to Upwork and it's about to merge with Elance making it easier to reach clients) and do the same there.

In no time at all you'll have regular clients giving you work. There is literally unlimited work available. If you can write say 400 words an hour (anyone can) that's the same hourly as an English teacher in Thailand, without the early mornings, commute, exam prep, marking, and stress.

Of course the best move is to be the one with a website, hiring cheap freelance writers yourself and monetizing their work. You don't want to be the writer forever. But one step at a time.

Edited July 15, 2015 by jspill

[ev1lchris]

@OP anyone can be a freelance writer online. Just being a native English speaker that can put sentences together without dozens of errors, puts you above the Filipinos and Indians that take the low paying jobs. They make a monthly income comparable to the cost of living in Thailand doing it, so you can make several times that.

Just do an advanced Google search for all Craigslist jobs with 'telecommuting is okay' in the ad, which means you can do it from anywhere in the world, e.g. Thailand. Expand it to all Craigslist domains (each city / country has a Craigslist) as it doesn't matter if it's on e.g. Chicago craiglist, if it can be done anywhere. And maybe an ad is only listed on one local domain. Then add filters like 'writing' and 'posted in last 24 hours' or whatever.

Here's a ready made search for you, it won't let me post the raw URL. You can hover your mouse over it and see it's just a link to Google.

At first offer to write for Filipino rates to get references, a portfolio and experience. Also get on Upwork (Odesk renamed to Upwork and it's about to merge with Elance making it easier to reach clients) and do the same there.

In no time at all you'll have regular clients giving you work. There is literally unlimited work available. If you can write say 400 words an hour (anyone can) that's the same hourly as an English teacher in Thailand, without the early mornings, commute, exam prep, marking, and stress.

Of course the best move is to be the one with a website, hiring cheap freelance writers yourself and monetizing their work. You don't want to be the writer forever. But one step at a time.

This is probably the best piece of advice I have gotten lately. Thank you.

Upwork is kind of a zoo but I'm willing to do it for a portfolio.

[Time Traveller]

I came to Thailand 10+ years ago as a teacher. I was able to move on to other things thanks to luck, networking, and effort. 6 jobs and 4 companies later I am still here. Networking is key to finding work from within Thailand in my opinion, and although it isn't easy, it is possible to do.

Having said that, I have met dozens of coders looking for employment at networking events. You might like to expand your horizons as work isn't as easy to find here as it is at home, so we can't afford to be as fussy. This is not to say you won't find something you enjoy.

One last thing.... presentation is also very important. 'Farangs' in Thailand are judged an pigeon holed on how they look almost immediately.

Good luck

I look Japanese.

I think Katipo mean't how they dress.

I see farangs in Bangkok dressed like vagrants. Granted they might be on holiday but personally I like to look smart (unless I'm actually on a beach).

well good for you jack. The next time I see a dandy walking down the street I'll say hello

[zierf1]

are you a coder now ? as if you inspire to be in just 2 years ? or you mean one of them out of a ten thousands that makes silly websites that all look the same ?

work permit might be an issue and all you need is one angry (thai) customer or a jealous neighbor or friend and it is all over

Easy to take some classes / learn some code. NOT so easy to get a first job. That takes serious connections. If you don't 'know' anybody, you're out of luck. I'd imagine getting a software type job is not an easy thing to do. Similar to getting a job on an oil rig.

[NeverSure]

But nice to see the poster who made these comments is exhibiting the typical self entitlement found in so many lilly whites in Thailand, " i demand to treated well by the natives because i am whitey"

One can well understand why large numbers of Thai's actually dispise farangs

I don't see any entitlement in the post you replied to. Reading things that aren't there.

It's easy to see why some farangs despise some farangs.

How can someone move to Thailand and take a job being someone else's beotch, and then try to lord it over other people who don't need to work because they made it? These people don't see how small they look to "real people".

Cheers

[rwdrwdrwd]

are you a coder now ? as if you inspire to be in just 2 years ? or you mean one of them out of a ten thousands that makes silly websites that all look the same ?

work permit might be an issue and all you need is one angry (thai) customer or a jealous neighbor or friend and it is all over

Easy to take some classes / learn some code. NOT so easy to get a first job. That takes serious connections. If you don't 'know' anybody, you're out of luck. I'd imagine getting a software type job is not an easy thing to do. Similar to getting a job on an oil rig.

Not at all - it's all about portfolio. I got into it 15 years ago by learning from books and experimenting, my first full time coding job (which doubled my wages as an 18 year old) was found on the basis of a number of personal projects made in my spare time over 18 months and the ability to clearly explain how I made them and the reasons behind the decisions I made whilst doing so.

I still encounter new self taught developers joining the industry in a similar manner.

Learn, build something good, repeat and repeat, constantly learn - jobs will appear and rates will increase. Really is pretty much as simple as that.

Edited July 16, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[simon43]

Interesting that no-one has yet commented on what the OP said:

and I made a small income of around 15k baht per month writing research papers for college students.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood that statement. It reads to me that you were getting an income to help college students cheat, by writing their research papers.

Have I understood that correctly?

If so, please don't come looking for any job where I have an input as to whether you are offered employment or not.

Again, my apologies if I have misunderstood your statement.

[ev1lchris]

Interesting that no-one has yet commented on what the OP said:

and I made a small income of around 15k baht per month writing research papers for college students.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood that statement. It reads to me that you were getting an income to help college students cheat, by writing their research papers.

Have I understood that correctly?

If so, please don't come looking for any job where I have an input as to whether you are offered employment or not.

Again, my apologies if I have misunderstood your statement.

That's not me.

[Lukecan]

You could enter the foreign service and try to get posted to Thailand and live in Bangkok on a expat package + diplomatic immunity Thats the path I'm trying to pursue right now.

[ev1lchris]

You could enter the foreign service and try to get posted to Thailand and live in Bangkok on a expat package + diplomatic immunity Thats the path I'm trying to pursue right now.

Lol, good luck. I'm sure it's not easy to come by.

[Hornyskunk]

Forgive me if I have misunderstood that statement. It reads to me that you were getting an income to help college students cheat, by writing their research papers.

Have I understood that correctly?

If so, please don't come looking for any job where I have an input as to whether you are offered employment or not.

Again, my apologies if I have misunderstood your statement.

It wasn't cheating. The research papers were all intended for publication. I was always thanked in the acknowledgments.

That being said, it sure felt a lot like cheating to me. Although I was paid as an "editor", the appalling English of the authors led me to basically rewrite the papers from scratch. Without my complete revision, I don't think that any of the papers would have had a chance at being published. This felt like cheating to me because, if a student could afford to pay me 4000-5000 baht, they were basically ensuring that their research would be published.

As you can imagine, word got around quickly and I am still dealing with the consequences. My current job and salary makes it a poor investment of time to edit research papers anymore, but I still get requests and I just don't have the heart to refuse them. Many of the students need to have published research in order to graduate. Others need it to meet the requirements of a scholarship or grant.

You could enter the foreign service and try to get posted to Thailand and live in Bangkok on a expat package + diplomatic immunity Thats the path I'm trying to pursue right now.

Don't do that. From what I understand, you've got excel on the FSOT on your first try to have any kind of leverage in where you are stationed. Instead, get a job with an IGO like the United Nations. Thailand is a developing country and has lots of IGO and NGO jobs. Earning $100k/year in the foreign service is like earning $75k/year at the UN since UN employees don't pay any taxes.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Hornyskunk

[Berkshire]

You could enter the foreign service and try to get posted to Thailand and live in Bangkok on a expat package + diplomatic immunity Thats the path I'm trying to pursue right now.

Are you an American? The US State Dept does have a career path in the Foreign Service, but it's pretty difficult to get in. And even if you did, it's highly improbable that you'd get Thailand. More likely is some obscure outpost in Africa or the Middle East. If you even get in...not that easy.

[Lukecan]

FS employees dont pay any taxes either

[Lukecan]

You could enter the foreign service and try to get posted to Thailand and live in Bangkok on a expat package + diplomatic immunity Thats the path I'm trying to pursue right now.

Are you an American? The US State Dept does have a career path in the Foreign Service, but it's pretty difficult to get in. And even if you did, it's highly improbable that you'd get Thailand. More likely is some obscure outpost in Africa or the Middle East. If you even get in...not that easy.

No I'm not American, I'm Turkish. In the Turkish Foreign service no one really wants to go to countries like Thailand,Malaysia,Indonesia etc, everyone is trying to get posted to US,Europe etc so its pretty easy to get posted to Thailand once you get in. The prequisite is that you have to serve in a African country like Somalia for a year or so and then get posted to a country of your choice.

Oh by the way, I agree that its very hard to get in