Renewing Non-Immigrant Type O for another year...

[Rael007]

My apologies if my questions have been asked before, but I just joined the forum and upon my initial review of previously posted threads, I could not find answers to my exact questions. My U.S. passport remains valid for many years to come; these questions apply only to my Thai visa.

I have a Non-Immigrant Type O (not O-A) visa issued by the U.S. on Sept. 4, 2014. It has allowed me to reside in Thailand for one year, providing I do my 90-day border runs, which I've been doing. I will be leaving the country again for a couple weeks in August (to travel to the U.S.). Because the visa was good for one year, the visa itself states I must "enter before Sept. 3, 2015."

QUESTIONS:

-- Does this mean if I return to Thailand before Sept. 3, I have another 90 days (approx. Dec. 2) before I need to renew my visa entirely? Or do I need to renew my visa entirely prior to Sept. 3?

-- Bearing in mind that is my intention to stay in Thailand for an additional year, when the times comes, is it necessary to renew my Non-Immigrant Type O visa itself (re: apply for another one, which can cost up to $200US) ... or can I simply apply for a one-year, multiple entry extension (considerably cheaper, at 3800 baht)? If it IS necessary to renew completely, can I do that here in Thailand, which I think costs only 5000 baht (still cheaper than $200)?

-- How long does the process take. Same day approval? Two or three business days? Or considerably longer? I need to know what my options are for renewing/extending my visa before I travel out of country on August 7.

Bottom line is, I'm asking should I renew my visa while I'm in the U.S. in mid-to-late August, or is it unnecessary? Can I save money by doing it here in Thailand instead? Do I have to do it by September 3, or am I cheating myself out of 90 days by doing so?

Thanks for any help. I'm glad a friend of mine told me about this forum!

[Lite Beer]

If you enter before 3rd September you will get another 90 days.

We need to know a few more details.

Your age?

Do you have a Thai spouse or child?

[Rael007]

I will be 49 next month. Not old enough to apply for Retirement visa yet.

No Thai spouse or child.

My financial situation is well within the requirements for my type of visa.

[Lite Beer]

On what grounds did you apply for the Non Imm O Visa?

You don't seem to qualify for an extension in Thailand.
I can't see you getting a Non Imm O Visa in Asia.
To be honest I can't see you getting one in USA either.

From the Embassy in Washington:

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O”

Purpose of Visit: Applicants who wish to stay with family in Thailand (Thai Family)
Applicants who wish for volunteering work with the state enterprises or social welfare organizations in Thailand (Volunteering)

http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-visa-category-o/

[lopburi3]

Question was answered but somehow lost in my reading - sorry.

[Rael007]

When I originally applied in the U.S., I simply told them I'd like to stay in Thailand for at least one year. I would continue to work for the company I currently for in the U.S., but I'd be doing it entirely via the internet. I was told my best option was Non-Immigrant Type O, multiple entries.

If I do not qualify for an 'extension', so be it. I was just curious - thought it might save me some effort, and money. I can always simply renew my visa. I have already been in contact with the Thai Consulate in my U.S. home town and they've told me it won't be an issue when I return in August for my visit; simply bring all the same documents I did last time, plus the fee ($200), and they see no reason why I would not be issued another visa for another year.

But from what you've told me (thank you, by the way), I don't need to do it by September 3. I can wait another three months. Why get it renewed now, which would make it valid Sept. 2015-Sept. 2016, when I can wait and get one dated Dec. 2015-Dec. 2016 instead? So my concern now is, where is the best place to apply for another one-year, multiple entry visa by December 2. Can I do that here? If so, can I expect it to cost 5000 baht (still less than $200), and will I need to go to the main immigration office to do it, or can I simply go to the U.S. embassy?

[ubonjoe]

By the next time you will need a visa you will be 50 years old and can apply for a one year extension of stay based upon retirement at the local immigration office where your are living. The fee will be 1900 baht for the extension and 3800 baht for a multiple re-entry permit or 1000 baht for a single re-entry permit.

You will need to meet the financial proof requirements to apply for the extension. They are 800k baht in a Thai bank for 60 days or proof of 65k baht income or a combination of the 2 totaling 800k baht.

[Rael007]

Thanks, Ubonjoe.

I will not turn 50 until late next year, but yes when the time comes to renew my NEXT visa, I'll be looking into that. Thanks.

My main concern is what to do now. It's beginning to look as though my best option is to wait until end of November or so to get my renewal done. But I'm still trying to figure out if I need to do so in the U.S., or another nearby country such as Singapore or Malaysia (which would be more convenient), or if I can do so at the U.S. Embassy here in Bangkok (which would be more convenient still).

[lopburi3]

Do not believe you will receive such a visa anywhere in the area (or most areas). Did consulate inform you of the need to obtain a work permit if doing work while physically in Thailand? The retirement visa/extension would not normally be accepted for a work permit issue.

[JDGRUEN]

The minimum age for a Non immigrant Multi Entry 'O' Visa -- issued at a Thai Embassy or Consulate or Royal Thai Honorary Consul General in America would have been age 50 or older... Unless applying for a Marriage to a Thai person marriage visa. You are either lucky or not understanding what visa you have as you were not age 50 or over upon issuance.

Or there is something not stated in your information or something is missing.

[ubonjoe]

This year the only place you will be able to do it will be in the states where you got the one you have now. No place in this part of the world will do it.

Next year you could apply for the extension during the last 30 days of any of the 90 day entries from your visa after you turn 50. You do not need to wait for your visa to expire to apply.

[Rael007]

I'm looking at my visa right now. It says "Type - Non Immigrant", "Category - O", "Number of Entries - M". (and of course, "Fee - 200 USD")

Date of Issue - 4 SEP 2014.

Enter Before - 3 SEP 2015.

I first arrived in Thailand in mid-September 2014 and have been here ever since, living in a nice condo I've rented. Every 90 days, I have traveled outside the country. And I have traveled by air, train and bus within the country many times. I have never experienced any issues whatsoever with my visa.

I do not work in Thailand, per se, as I have no work visa. However, I continue to earn biweekly paychecks as an employee of a company in the U.S. (they direct deposit into my U.S. account). Therefore I can show that I have a monthly income meeting (actually exceeding) what is required. All my work is done via the internet. So, I am geographically working from Thailand, but I am not "working in Thailand".

When I originally applied for my visa in the U.S., they (the Thai Consulate) asked me how long I was planning on staying in Thailand. I told them I'd like to stay for one year. They informed me that the "Non-Immigrant Type O" visa with multiple entries would suit my needs. I filled out the required forms, brought them the required documents, and paid the required fee. That was all there was to it. Within two days, my visa was approved.

Having already contacted my local consulate again to discuss it, I will have no problem renewing my visa while I'm back in the U.S. next month -- but I'm kind of cheating myself out of three months if I do that (since I can still enter Thailand again prior to Sept. 3 and have 90 days). It seems unnecessary for me to renew my visa until around December 2. My apologies if I'm being confusing. I'm simply trying to figure out the most convenient way to renew my visa, so I can stay another year.

[ubonjoe]

You might want to consider your birthday as a target date for next year. After you get the extension you will not need to leave the country unless you want to.

You will be able to apply for the extension as soon as you turn 50 as long as you are within the last 30 days of any 90 day entry.

[nowretired]

Rael007

As already stated it is extremely unlikely that you will succeed in having a similar visa issued anywhere in the region.

It would be interesting to know which US Thai Consulate issued your current visa .

[lopburi3]

You are saying it right - but the fact is a Consulate will not normally issue for such reasons and there is no income requirements that would change that (as least not that anyone here is aware of). As for work by broad definition by law if taking place while you are in Thailand you are working in Thailand and should have a work permit in addition to a visa entry/extension. The rules on this date back before internet.

[Rael007]

Rael007

It would be interesting to know which US Thai Consulate issued your current visa .

Royal Thai Consulate - General

Atlanta, Georgia, USA

[Rael007]

You are saying it right - but the fact is a Consulate will not normally issue for such reasons and there is no income requirements that would change that (as least not that anyone here is aware of). As for work by broad definition by law if taking place while you are in Thailand you are working in Thailand and should have a work permit in addition to a visa entry/extension. The rules on this date back before internet.

Not sure what to tell you, other than it was certainly a Thai Consulate I went to for my visa (see post above), although there was not a single Thai person working there that I noticed ... only American professional bureaucrat types. I showed them proof of current bank balance, and some recent paycheck stubs to show what my monthly income was (along with the other documents they required). They already knew I did not have, nor was I applying for, a work visa. They only seemed concerned that my monthly income and/or total savings met the minimum requirements, that my passport was valid, and that I had an airline ticket already.

As far as anyone knows, I am not working in Thailand. When I'm at my condo, I complete my 'work' on my laptop and send it to my boss back in the U.S. And he pays me, into my U.S. bank account, since I cannot open a bank account here. Of course, I still have to pay U.S. taxes each year. But I am not an employee of anyone in Thailand and I am not earning Thai income. Because I'm lucky enough to have a job which is done completely online, I can do it from anywhere (when I was living in the U.S., I worked entirely from home) - I just happen to be doing it during my stay in Thailand.

[lopburi3]

This monthly income and savings to meet what requirements is a real question mark - as there is no such requirement other than for retirement that I am aware of (other than travel with 20k single or 40k married). As for the facility that is an Honorary Consulate - not operated by Thai government so there business is fees for visas so sometimes can provide a bit more leeway.

As for a bank account in Thailand you can open without issues - but it would be the normal savings type rather than checking which you are used to having in USA. Works the same as you have ATM/debit cards to withdraw money.

[Rael007]

Been doing further research into this today. Along with your helpful advice, I think I've figured out that:

My only viable option is to get my visa renewed while I'm in the U.S. in August. I am slated to return to Bangkok on September 2.

Technically, I can still use my current visa through the end of November, since my last entry date is September 3rd, allowing me 90 days after that date. HOWEVER, due to other plans I already have scheduled which cannot be changed, I will not be able to return to the U.S. in November to attempt to renew it at that time. Therefore, I have little choice but to renew it now. I still feel I'm losing three months of time I'm entitled to, but I don't see any other alternative.

If I want the same type of visa I've talked about in previous posts, allowing me to stay here for another year, I'm going have to get it done in the U.S. And my only visit to the U.S. for this year is in August.

Oh well. I'm just happy to stay here for another year, regardless of how I get it done. And I will definitely be looking into the retirement visa/extension by next August.

p.s.: Lopburi3 - thanks for your banking advice. I've looked into that a bit more too, especially with Bangkok Bank. All this time I was under the impression that only Thai citizens could open bank accounts. I had no idea I might be able to do so with my passport, proof of my local lease/address, and reference letter from my U.S. bank.

[DogNo1]

I suggest that you lose the idea that you are losing three months. If you wait until December to renew your visa your only option will be to travel back to the USA in December to get another visa to carry you until you turn 50. Think of it as gaining a year. If you get another visa in August, that is what you will gain.

[Suradit69]

My only viable option is to get my visa renewed while I'm in the U.S. in August.

Visas are not renewed. You have to apply for a new one. Whether or not it's a viable plan will probably depend on you using the same honorary consul who apparently bends the rules. You don't meet the requirements for a multi-entry non-imm O. Either the consul is mistaken in his understanding of the rules or he's "flexible" in his approach to them.

Technically, I can still use my current visa through the end of November, since my last entry date is September 3rd, allowing me 90 days after that date.

Technically if you enter before the visa expires in September, you can stay in Thailand based on immigrations issuing you a permission to stay for 90 days. You don't stay in Thailand "using" a visa. You stay in Thailand using the permission to stay issued to you by immigrations. The visa itself will cease to be valid on its September expiry date. Following that date, since the visa will have expired but your permission to stay will be valid until November, if you want to exit and return to Thailand during those 90 days, you will need a re-entry permit. Leaving Thailand once the visa expires will automatically end your permission to stay if you return without a re-entry permit. If you returned without the re-entry permit or a new visa, on a US passport, you'd get a 30 day visa exempt entry.

But I am not an employee of anyone in Thailand and I am not earning Thai income.

Undoubtedly many people do this sort of thing and there's little chance you'll ever have a problem with it, but you are working in Thailand regardless of who employs you or how you receive compensation.

If you are ever asked by an immigrations officer in Thailand to explain the source of your income, you'd be advised NOT to say you work on your computer in your condo in Thailand.

Many foreigners work in Thailand for foreign companies and may have all or most of their pay deposited to a bank outside of Thailand, but they do need a work permit in addition to the appropriate visa & permission to stay.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Suradit69

[mrwebb8825]

Personally I don't understand why you keep leaving Thailand every 90 days if you have a 1 year visa. Why not just spend 10 minutes at immigration and do a 90 day report? It's free. As for a renewal/extension, just take your documents to same said immigration office and ask them if they can process it. If they say no or give you grief then just do it while you're in the states as they seem willing to rubber stamp you for $200.

[Lite Beer]

Personally I don't understand why you keep leaving Thailand every 90 days if you have a 1 year visa. Why not just spend 10 minutes at immigration and do a 90 day report? It's free. As for a renewal/extension, just take your documents to same said immigration office and ask them if they can process it. If they say no or give you grief then just do it while you're in the states as they seem willing to rubber stamp you for $200.

He has a Multi Entry Non Imm O Visa .

Each entry gives a max of 90 days so he has to leave.

He does not qualify for an extension so Immigration cannot proccess it.

He does not really qualify for anything other than a Tourist Visa.

As he has found a friendly consulate in US willing to give him a Visa he should bite their hand and get another one from there.

[IMA_FARANG]

If you are only 49 years old you won't qualify for a retirement "extension" as for that extension you must be 50 years of age or older.

For that extension, if you were past your 50th birthday you would need to be able to show at least:

• 800K Thai Baht in a Thai Bank account
• OR the monthly income equal to 65,000 Thai Baht
• OR a COMBINATON income from both of the sources above that is equivalent to an annual income of 800K Thai baht or better.

Since you are not yet 50 years old unfortunately none of that applies to you at only 49 years old.

And since your not married to a Thai or have a Thai child to support, there is no chance of getting a marriage "extension", so that is out also.

From those two cases it seems you are out of luck there,

Since your original visa expires on the 3rd of September this year and therefore is still current, you are right.

Having a multi entry visa you can exit Thailand and re-enter Thailand before 3 September.

That will get you another "permitted to enter" stamp that will be good for 90 days. Thai stamp will allow you to stay legally in Thailand until it ends.

Leave Thailand across a border 1 day before your visa expires and return the same dayor at least before Midnight on the 3rd of September and you will get your final 90 day "permitted to stay" stamp which should keep you in Thailand until that stamped date.

But then you must leave unless you have a valid reason to do an extension in Thailand.

And from what you say, you don't

You will find that you can't "renew" your Non O multi visa in the U.S.

You may be able to get a new one, but the process has become very difficult now there also.

If you can show the 800K Thai baht bank account in Thailand or the 65K monthly income I mentioned before, you will probably have problems getting a new Non O visa in most consulates in the U.S. now also.

It has become much tighter to obtain that visa in the last year or to..... they are checking requirements much more closely than they used to now.

One possibility to look for is to try and get a double entry or triple entry tourist visa,,,, which might be able to keep you in Thailand until you reach your 50th birthday.

At age 50 in Thailand, if you can meet the financial requirements, a "retirement" extension becomes possible for you.

That's like a magic widow that can let you in to repeated annual stays in Thailand

But it only opens after 50years.

Another thing do NOT mention to anyone especially to immigration that you derive your income from an on-line source in Thailand.

I know many do, but technically it is illegal.

You need a work permit to do that, and you will not be allowed to get a work permit unless you are employed by a Thai company or you have your own business (very expensive to start) in Thailand.

So mum's the word on that.

That's the facts.

[Rael007]

Personally I don't understand why you keep leaving Thailand every 90 days if you have a 1 year visa. Why not just spend 10 minutes at immigration and do a 90 day report? It's free. As for a renewal/extension, just take your documents to same said immigration office and ask them if they can process it. If they say no or give you grief then just do it while you're in the states as they seem willing to rubber stamp you for $200.

I could do the 90-day report (I think I can even do it online now), but that's no fun; I like the traveling aspect. Sometimes I need to be motivated to go somewhere, and that gives me the motivation. It's allowed me to visit places like Vietnam, Cambodia, even Germany - places I never would have experienced otherwise. I'm still relatively new to this, so the border runs don't seem like a burden to me, but a chance to see someplace new. If and when that novelty wears off, or if I simply don't feel like spending the money to travel, I can always drag myself to immigration and get stamped the simple and free way.

I appreciate your input, however. This is why I came to this forum. Thanks.

[Upnotover]

Personally I don't understand why you keep leaving Thailand every 90 days if you have a 1 year visa. Why not just spend 10 minutes at immigration and do a 90 day report? It's free. As for a renewal/extension, just take your documents to same said immigration office and ask them if they can process it. If they say no or give you grief then just do it while you're in the states as they seem willing to rubber stamp you for $200.

I could do the 90-day report (I think I can even do it online now), but that's no fun; I like the traveling aspect. Sometimes I need to be motivated to go somewhere, and that gives me the motivation. It's allowed me to visit places like Vietnam, Cambodia, even Germany - places I never would have experienced otherwise. I'm still relatively new to this, so the border runs don't seem like a burden to me, but a chance to see someplace new. If and when that novelty wears off, or if I simply don't feel like spending the money to travel, I can always drag myself to immigration and get stamped the simple and free way.

I appreciate your input, however. This is why I came to this forum. Thanks.

You do not have the choice of reporting or border crossing. you MUST leave the country within 90 days.

[lopburi3]

As said multi times now - you do not have an option of 90 day address reporting - your entry is only allowed for 90 days each time and then you must depart the country as you have been doing. Only if/when you obtain extensions of that 90 day stay or an O-A visa allowing a one year stay would 90 day address reporting come into play.

[Rael007]

IMA_FARANG and SURADIT69 both basically said: "do not mention to anyone, especially immigration, that your income is from working on the internet in Thailand."

Good advice. I appreciate it. I could simply say I'm not working here and getting by on my savings. (They don't need to know that someone in the U.S. is "contributing" to my savings as "compensation" for helping him with his website.)

[Rael007]

Lopburi3 and Upnotover: My apologies. Some of the comments, while well-meaning, get me confused. This is the first time I'm having to go through the process of what to do when I want to stay for another year. You're right; with my type of visa, I MUST do the border runs. Although, as I stated, I don't mind them. Each one gives me a new adventure.

Nevertheless, I've resigned myself to getting a new visa during my visit to the U.S. next month. I've already spoken with the Royal Thai Consulate in Atlanta, which one commenter here said was an "honorary consulate", not an official consulate run by the Thai government. They've assured me I will have no problem obtaining another visa, just like my current one, so long as I'm supplying the same required documents and fee.

[elviajero]

IMA_FARANG and SURADIT69 both basically said: "do not mention to anyone, especially immigration, that your income is from working on the internet in Thailand."

Good advice. I appreciate it. I could simply say I'm not working here and getting by on my savings. (They don't need to know that someone in the U.S. is "contributing" to my savings as "compensation" for helping him with his website.)

Yes, very good advice. Unfortunately the Alien Working Act in Thailand hasn't caught up with the modern age and doesn't cater for those of us that can work anywhere in the world with a laptop and internet connection. Any paid, unpaid or volunteer work carried out while physically in Thailand requires a work permit which, even if you wanted, you couldn't get. Having a passive income from abroad from a business, internet based or otherwise, is perfectly ok.

"Bottom line is, I'm asking should I renew my visa while I'm in the U.S. in mid-to-late August, or is it unnecessary? Can I save money by doing it here in Thailand instead? Do I have to do it by September 3, or am I cheating myself out of 90 days by doing so?"

I think the decision is simple and don't worry about losing the 90 days. There's nothing you can do in Thailand so if you can get another multi entry Non-I 'O' from the US during your August visit you should do that. That will give you up to approx 15 months and will take you past your 50th birthday at which point you can get an extension based on retirement.