Persevere or run?

[tassieman]

Hi, ANY insights appreciated from older/more experienced hands on TVF pls as on the verge of either making serious my relationship with my Isaan GF (met online via Date in Asia in late 2013) or throwing up my hands in despair and walking. I realize it's a bit of an epic (sorry) and maybe I just need to write it out of my system so as to get some perspective on it all. But, any relevant advice greatly appreciated cos at the moment I am in the middle of a big FOG.

My GF and I have met up 3 times twice in Thailand and once in KL; last month, for the first time, I went north and met the family and her son and had a good look at the countryside around Khon Kaen/Udon Thani...a bit sad to see the drought at the moment. It's not so much a case of 'cold feet' but just being VERY careful and especially after reading/filtering a lot of material on this site and stickman archives, not to mention 2 previous marriages to Australian women etc. I'm sure you get it.

The basic issue is I have a STRONG SENSE that some of the dots don't join up...try as hard as I can, I can't get her to furnish any/much real/hard evidence to corroborate important aspects of her "story", which is why I be here blah blah blah. So, here goes guys...point form might be easier:

• She is in her early 40s and has a 9 yr old son to a previous marriage to a U.K guy in Thailand, who she says deserted her in 2007 and then died in 2011.
• She says the U.K Government now pays her a pension in Thailand (either a support mother OR widows pension...not sure?) of 90 pounds a week which she will lose if we get married, which she says complicates "things"
• She says she owns several properties in Isaan and we purportedly viewed a number of these last month...given comments on this site and others...this doesn't sound unusual as there is a LOT of land up North ...happy to run with this one but always felt this land was being used either as a bit of bait OR testing if I was a scammer maybe?.
• She says she has run a successful business in BKK for the last 20 years and has accumulated quite substantial savings/investments as well as a large house in a reasonably affluent area of BKK (Sukhumvit 71). I have stayed in the house twice now...a little weird as almost completely unfurnished (she says the bulk of the furniture is at her Mum's house up north but I didn't see much evidence of that when I was there...) but there is 1/2 a wardrobe full of Western men's clothes which she says are her -ex's and which she wants to keep for her son as some part of 'trace' of his Father. Just a bit spooky as she guided me to the cupboard next to 'his' to store my clothes when I was there recently!! Even spookier (if any one reading this wants a laugh), I decided to find another spot to store my things and went to a wardrobe in the next room in which a couple of boxes of her ex's technical stuff were stored (he was an electronics analyst in the U.K...medical radiography etc). The bizarre thing is that I had also brought over some tech gear (a video cam + data projector) as part of my gradual move to BKK and possible future life together and we had discussed the possibility of me teaching etc...even buying an English school franchise....but it was like a weird Ground Hogs Day a-going on...also, I am the same age as her ex when they married and not dissimilar in terms of our backgrounds etc...anyway, that's another story. (His name was David ************, last worked in Crawley in Sussex, UK in about 2005 apparently at a place called Elekta Oncology if this rings a bell for anyone in the reading expat community in BKK?)
• The "mysterious" Mr. Max ********* from the U.K Embassy in BKK...any one know of /heard of this guy...apparently retired recently (VERY convenient hmmmnn)? So, according to my beloved, Mr Max is a kindly, avuncular gentleman in his late 60s who took my beloved and her son under his wing and advised and fought and won for her probate from her ex's estate in the U.K + the 90 pounds a week pension/payment. According to my beloved, Mr. Max does this all apparently from the goodness of his heart and a sense of justice!!!! He has been married to a Thai wife for 10 years and there's nothing more in it except for the fact that.......he rings her incessantly...3-4 more times a day...even when we were in KL on a sort of pseudo-honeymoon. I asked why she hasn't told him about us etc...more obfuscation...why don't we meet up with Mr. Max and wife...more obfuscation....can I have his mobile number or email to get in touch.....FURY: WHY DON'T YOU TRUST ME!!!!???? I CAN'T BE WITH A MAN WHO DOESN'T TRUST ME!!!! My older bro' has speculated my beloved might be Mr. Max's mistress...maybe even the clothes at the house are his...he's unwilling to leave his Thai wife....my beloved is using me to turn the screws etc etc...and she's weighing up what's in her longer term best interests...especially if I am a COMPLETE sucker and get her and the boy to Australia etc etc. NO idea what to think of ANY of this???
• She says she has loaned 2 million baht to a friend as part of some Isaan power development project and now the friend is defaulting + asking for more..these sorts of $$$ problems get my scam-radar going big time...but she says she has security over the friend's properties...I have asked to see the Land Office documentation and again FURY: WHY DON'T YOU TRUST ME!!!!???? The fact that exactly the sort of development (solar power fields) are located on the road we took to her Mum's house in Isaan makes me wonder....? Maybe a good story?
• Couple of last tid bits in this "saga".... at least twice she has said "I am a very slippery fish to catch" (which fills me with assurance...NOT!) and more than twice when we discuss how our relationship might progress, she says maybe it's best if I am a sort of twice-a-year visiting lover, which might just be testing me but again doesn't fill me with a great deal of assurance.

Anyway, to wrap up, I felt at the beginning of the LDR that she was hoping for another baby and at my age (54) I wasn't all that keen. But, decided to relent on this one and so last month we gave it a go and tried for pregnancy and waited for her period to start or not towards the end of my stay. INCREDIBLY, one morning she made it carefully obvious that she was retrieving period pads from her bag and rushed back into the resort room we were vacating...telling me to wait where I was in the car. Of course I inquired and she said that yes her period had started and that we had missed out etc etc.

Anyway, after a brandy n coke or three the next evening I asked to "see the evidence" of her period just to confirm all because by this time the paranoia was pretty rife...guess what: NO PERIOD. (And before anyone says things about Thai/Isaan women's ultra modesty in matters like this...well...in KL, I twice hand washed blood soaked sheets in the hotel room from her menstruation "leaks"...so, there's no issue on that one lol)

Apologies if TOO much information in the above for some. OTOH, She has never asked me for money and I have never sent or given any. I have made it clear from the beginning that I DON'T have any substantial assets or even super; one of the reasons I started looking at life in Thailand as a later-life option.

any insight/opinions appreciated, cheers, MP

[Briggsy]

What is her job?

It seems she does not have one.

What was her last paid employment?

The business for which there is no evidence.

Stop here. Do not confuse sexual relationships/dating with a full-time relationship/marriage. They are quite different.

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't give her any money, don't believe anything she says, use her house in BK, avoid rural areas, enjoy the ride.

When you're 50+ it's the only sensible way to treat women.

PS. If I were playing the game, it would be with someone in her 30s.

[NeverSure]

Marked as read, LOL.

[johnnybgood]

Sorry O.P.

Personally I can't be bothered to read it all.

Why do you come here looking for advice now?

ThaiVisa (despite it's warts) has been available for 10 + years.

Jeeez.....Why doesn't anyone EVER read the instructions on the Thai packet before opening?

[KarenBravo]

Run away..........quickly.

[canman]

Go with the flow until the demands for money start then exit stage left.

She has already provided the get out clause "she says maybe it's best if I am a sort of twice-a-year visiting lover"

[billphillips]

I feel sure that you already know that this lady has a hidden agenda, or at least hidden for now. She is using you for something or other. Who knows what and who cares anyway.

If you are enjoying yourself ... Cary on regardless. If not ... Walk or run away.

Dating sites are a great place to meet likeminded partners. They are also extremely useful for all sorts of scammers, planners and manipulators. Go and try again, but look for someone with a little less baggage. Shall we say a carry-on rather than a steamer trunk.

[samuibeachcomber]

She is slippery indeed...too much baggage.AM SURE YOU CAN DO BETTER.Walk away before it does your head in.

[mmh8]

as a sas man once told me - i mean real sas not tv sas - oh well same same as a military person once told me, if it smells like shit, feels like shit, looks like shit it probably is

[tassieman]

Dear All, much appreciative of all the responses...and, yes, I am getting the drift (albeit a little sadly). I think it was the pic she sent early on of her as a Buddhist nun that made me lower what have been fairly tight filters/defences against scammers/frauds on Asian dating sites. Anyway, I see what rolls over from here...she isn't Skype-ing anymore, especially not since I suggested/requested DNA-patrimony tests if a baby was to happen...and yes Bill:

>I feel sure that you already know that this lady has a hidden agenda,

It's just that I haven't been able to NAIL exactly what it has been cos, as said, I don't have $$$/assets/pension etc and several times I have urged her to find a younger bloke with some $$$, especially as I felt she wanted another bub...maybe it's the "green card" objective to the Land of Oz...maybe it's because I wasn't sleaze bag in communique....very very strange indeed. Thanks again, best to all and take care, MP

[samuibeachcomber]

Thanks for the topic you posted.It has been my experience here that when the "first love" is n't working out and we dont understand why,it's because we cant "see the wood from the trees" and we are reluctant to admit defeat,to let go and move on.So i wish you good luck,there are many success stories here too.

When i first arrived here 10 years ago,a guy said to me "take your time if you are looking for a woman to commit too,he told me it took him 5years.

[tonray]

Ask politely one last time to see the evidence of her marriage/widowing/pension. If she refuses, let her know you will leave in 24 hours. Any marriage should be entered into with a level of trust and not suspicion, if you have any suspicion you should leave and save yourself a headache.

[tingtongfarang]

Treat it as a social experiment but get ready to run

[55Jay]

Sounds like a business arrangement. Didn't hear you mention anything about loving or even liking her. Or vice versa.

If it's good in the sack, hit it for as long as it's not too werid, but be cautious. Some are psycho damaged goods so stringing them out too long and obviously could be hazardous to your health.

[fish fingers]

yes its weird you don't really mention your feelings for her. Most of us agree that any relationship with zero trust aint going to work. I would recommend taking a break at least.. to clear the fog.

[brabo2180]

Whatever you decide to do, don't get her pregnant!!!!

[ksamuiguy]

Run Away as fast as you can!

[MaeJoMTB]

yes its weird you don't really mention your feelings for her. Most of us agree that any relationship with zero trust aint going to work. I would recommend taking a break at least.. to clear the fog.

Married 6 years with zero trust and still going.

Trust isn't that important, if you're sensible.

Misplaced trust will get you every time.

[thaibeachlovers]

.....FURY: WHY DON'T YOU TRUST ME!!!!???? I CAN'T BE WITH A MAN WHO DOESN'T TRUST ME!!!!

Says it all. It won't get better if you get married.

IMO, whether you stay together or not, do NOT get married, and why the frack did you agree to have a baby with someone you barely know? If she is pregnant you'd better hope for a miscarriage, or at the least have a paternity test.

If you do stay together, be prepared to leave when the demands for money start or you'll, IMO, be a pauper before you know it.

Unfortunately you are far from the only farang to let his little head lead him.

[thaibeachlovers]

Sorry O.P.

Personally I can't be bothered to read it all.

Why do you come here looking for advice now?

ThaiVisa (despite it's warts) has been available for 10 + years.

Jeeez.....Why doesn't anyone EVER read the instructions on the Thai packet before opening?

That's harsh. Not everyone knows about TV and I only found it by accident.

When little head leads, brain exits- a truth that women have exploited for probably as long as humans have existed. I was probably just lucky I didn't fall into a trap in my early days in LOS.

[tassieman]

_{O.P here....again, many thanks ato responders...greatly appreciated and to JBGood...take on board what you said about TV + 10 years...BUT...in my defence "THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING NOW" before the whole shebang falls apart, and I did do quite a lot of forum surfing gleaning what I could, but (and to respond to some of the others):}

• _{it's not so much "leading with the little head"...it's actually about "leading with the heart"...but again thanx for your response}

_{There may be a cool tone in my outline of what's been going on but YES I have had very strong feelings for the woman in question....I am not going to weep on the page, but I feel very sad about how things have started to turn out.}

_{Thanks again, MP}

[blackcab]

The problem is all inside your head

She said to me

The answer is easy if you

Take it logically

I'd like to help you in your struggle

To be free

There must be fifty ways

To leave your lover

-Paul Simon

[Rhys]

Bro,

My baht worth, leave, cut your loss.. you can always find what you need for short term relief.. why put up with the BS and frustration? You BP is high, you medication list increase... enjoy your golden years..

You don't need this .....

You are not an ATM machine....

Also sorry to say this, but what were you thinking.. a date from a website...

Carry on.. keep shaking it..

[AlexRRR]

_{O.P here....again, many thanks ato responders...greatly appreciated and to JBGood...take on board what you said about TV + 10 years...BUT...in my defence "THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING NOW" before the whole shebang falls apart, and I did do quite a lot of forum surfing gleaning what I could, but (and to respond to some of the others):}

• _{it's not so much "leading with the little head"...it's actually about "leading with the heart"...but again thanx for your response}

_{There may be a cool tone in my outline of what's been going on but YES I have had very strong feelings for the woman in question....I am not going to weep on the page, but I feel very sad about how things have started to turn out.}

_{Thanks again, MP}

Thai women can at times in my experience be short on details, its the sabi sabi thing you know...make no waves have no problems, thats there thinking.

Since your in love with her and i assume under no pressure to marry....dont....just keep it as it is until a time where your more comfortable with what ever...

My advice is stop thinking about it, making stories up in your head will just give you sleepless nights, you know little so leave things as they are this way nothing to loose but time.

If she wants to move towards marriage insist on a pre nuptial...this way she needs to document ( well you would think so) everything she owns....then my friend either way you will find out some truths.

[DGS1244]

Things don't add up including the so called UK pension at her age? As they say if it is too complicated to be true then it isn't. Walk away now while you are able to in one piece with no financial loss, that is a miracle to begin with.

There are many other ladies just waiting for you around the corner.

[recycler]

Move on, there are plenty of (younger) fish in the sea with less luggage of which you have only seen the tip of the iceberg!

[arunsakda]

Even if it is a troll I will comment because I have know of similar sounding situations which are true. Right ourt of the long scam playbook.

First I cannot imagine why a 40 year old woman, with all these assets and incomes, with a 9yr old kid already, would want another from a Farang unless she is out to fleece. Evasiveness is typical.

If you ever determine even one thing you were told is untrue you can be assured that everything else is lies. Everything.

I think you are being manipulated by the worst kind of Harpy and you should RUN NOW. Do not say goodbye, a venal harpy like this does not deserve the courtesy. Pack your bags, disappear, move far away and break off all contact forever.

[NickJ]

Has TV hired a new writer?......

[fang37]

Go on a holiday on your own - well, at least without your lady?

Reflect upon your problem?

Return

Disclose your decision

Get on with whatever.