Can The Spanish Embassy Insist You Verify Accomodation

[Phil_ne_uk]

Does anyone please know if an EU country, in this instance, the Spanish embassy can insist you show evidence that you have accomodation available when applying for a family permit. I phoned them today and after great difficulty trying to get any sense out of them, thats what they said.

If I'm reading the correct section as below then it does not state this.

Requirements to apply for a visa to join a family member who is Spanish, a national an European Union country, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

Persons entitled to apply for this visa:

- spouse

- children under 18 years of age.

-parents, when they are 65 years old, are economically dependent on the person living in Spain, or if there is a justified enough reason to apply for this visa.

Documents to be presented:

1.- Application form.

2.- Four photographs (ID card size).

3.- Passport with a validity of at least 4 months from the date of application.

4.- Document proving that the applicant is in fact related by blood or by law to the person who is a legal resident in Spain. This document must be legalized by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and with an official translation into Spanish.

When the applicant is married to an E.U. citizen, the latter should present a document issued by his/her Embassy in Bangkok stating that the marriage, celebrated according to the Thai law, or that of a third country, has the same legal consequences as if it had been done under his/her national law.

The british embassy/consul told me they can give me a letter stating that myself & my Thai girlfriend are in a durable relationship. Should this be enough to satisfy the spanish inquisition!!??

[the scouser]

Phil,

I don't think a letter from the British consul is going to carry much evidential weight. You are better collating evidence of your relationship over its entire length.

The difficulty is that what constitutes a "durable relationship" has been left to the individual member countries to define and, needless to say, they've all come up with different definitions. To further complicate matters, the facility for unmarried partners to get family permits is a recent occurrence and it may well be that the Spanish embassy in Bangkok is not aware of the provisions. Certainly, they shouldn't be asking for evidence of accommodation, but you may be as well playing ball with them as the alternative is protracted legal action.

Is it best writing to the embassy, asking that they acknowledge your girlfriend's entitlement to apply for a family permit and also list the documentation which will attain the Spanish definition of a "durable relationship"?

Scouse.

[Phil_ne_uk]

Hi Scouse,

thanks for your reply. I'm surprised that you think that a letter from the British consul wont help. They're happy to provide it (for 2600 baht of course) They said it is called a "Declaration of common law wife & husband status" They told me that they dont check out our past history but it's up to me to sign it similar to swearing on oath in a court of law. I could be lying for all they know but I'm not as I don't need to as I've done the time with my g/f so to speak.

As we have lived to get her mainly in thailand apart from 2 three months spells in the UK, we dont have joint bank accounts (obviously) All we really have is hotel bills from 3 areas of thailand, passport stamps, copies of booking info from the travel agent in BKK, and hundreds of photos which I don't really want to have to print out! do you think this lot will suffice?

Where it states,

However, the directive further provides a provision that implies that the host member state must facilitate the entry and the residence of “the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested”

Who would or should be "Duly attesting" our "durable relationship"??

I emailed them on 3rd August and about 4 times since but have had no response! After phoning them yesterday asking what documentation they would require to see, they rudely told me they can not discuss this on the phone and I would have to come to BKK to see them! So I guess I'll have to go & try to establish what they want to see.

Is it worth printing out some of these directives just to show them that I know what I'm talking about (well, a bit! lol) and won't be fobbed off??

Edited September 20, 2006 by Phil_ne_uk

[the scouser]

I'm surprised that you think that a letter from the British consul wont help.

It's for precisiely the reasons that you have outlined; i.e. any old Tom, Dick, or Harry could roll up and swear they were unmarried partners. As the ones seeking to benefit from the letter are the ones who swear it, it holds little evidential value even if you are being truthful.

Being an unmarried partner means more than having been in a long-term relationship. It generally implies that save for the lack of a marriage certificate, you are perceived as being married, and it is likely that the Spanish will want to see quite detailed evidence.

The directive itself is all fine and dandy, but you will note that it leaves the definition of a durable relationship to national governments. Therefore, you do need to establish what the Spanish construe as a durable relationship before waving the directives under their noses.

In deciding to go to Spain, you have chosen what is, in my experience, the most obstructive of the EEA countries when it comes to application of European law.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Phil_ne_uk]

Scouse,

thanks for your reply. May I ask about the "Declaration of common law wife & husband status" Is this classed as a legal document? I got the impression from the man at the brit emb that it was, similar to swearing on oath in a court he said!

I'm hoping to go to the Spanish emb tomorrow, I'll post how I get on. Oh, they did say that no-one has asked for a family permit for a common law wife before! Typical, trust me to be first (unless they're lying)

cheers

phil