If you were a farang living in LOS & had B10m available?

[krisb]

The shoebox condos that are selling for 500,000 baht are rented for less than 5000. I see condos like that on ramkhamheang being rented for 2000-3000 baht. Outside Bangkok it would be less.

Hmm, I know plenty of 60square metre condos in Bang Na for 500k and aren't bad at all.

And by not bad I mean nice.

[krisb]

Actually there are a lot of foreigners who come to Thailand in exactly that position, but without an income you are doomed.

What you need to do is generate a steady income, you could buy a few 1m baht condos and live off the rental income, but you need to keep a reserve for unexpected expenses and emergencies so you really could not buy more than about 7 condos.

I assume that if you are careful you can but 1m baht condos that will rent for about 6-7k per month and be easy enough to maintain occupancy which would give you only 42-54k per month even if they are fully let and cost you nothing to maintain (and that won't happen).

You may be able to live on 40k per month, but you won't live well. If you don't have any other income and you are not of retirement age perhaps you should work on getting more capitol behind you before you fully commit.

It's a lot easier to lose money in Thailand than it is to make it.

For a start, 1Mbht condos generally rent for 3,000-4,000bht/month, tax on that income is 15%.

So your estimated income has just halved.

Against the law to rent them out yourself, so the management company will reduce that more.

I think your prices are out.

I know workers at Honda out at Lat Krabang that all pay 2500 a month for a shitty room in a shitty building and that's considered 500 a month cheaper than average rent out there. These places are for sale at 300k.

A 1 million baht condo is worth more than you think to rent especially as you get closer to town.

And 15% tax isn't half, its 15%.

An agent will take say 5%. So if you had 20 condos all rented out for 4k a month each, that's 80k a month minus 20% which leaves 64k a month. Even if it was 60k a month, it's not bad.

Edited July 16, 2015 by krisb

[maxtwo]

Sell up in bkk and buy condo with a sea view.

[Bernard Flint]

10 million baht wont be easy to earn a monthly income to live in Thailand.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

The shoebox condos that are selling for 500,000 baht are rented for less than 5000. I see condos like that on ramkhamheang being rented for 2000-3000 baht. Outside Bangkok it would be less.

Hmm, I know plenty of 60square metre condos in Bang Na for 500k and aren't bad at all.

And by not bad I mean nice.

Do you have any links? I am interested,

[nithisa78]

I'd build more schools.

[Singharh]

Simon43..in which forum did you post details regarding the construction of the guest house ? Thanks in advance.

[12DrinkMore]

Right, assuming the OP is around retirement age of mid 60's, then for me it would work out as follows.

1. 800,000 in a term deposit account not to be touched as it guarantees the visa.

2. 10 years worth of basic living expenses (monthly say 10,000 rent, 10,000 food and 10,000 other expenses) spread over term deposits from 4 to 12 months. So around 3,600,000 Baht in cash deposits in Thailand.

3. 100,000 as instant cash.

4. 250,000 to set up a pleasant home (if four wheeled transport is necessary then another 400,000 for a small vehicle, maybe second hand).

That leaves around 5 million Baht.

Which I would leave outside of Thailand in GBP, USD and SGD term deposits, with a view to placing some of that in the stock markets.

Sit back and relax.

Buying and managing, as one suggestion, 30 condos? That would be hell, all that work, regulations, inaccessibility to cash. setting up a company, employing a manager? Forget it. This is retirement we are talking about, not taking on a humongous headache.

I also do not understand this about "not much of a lifestyle" below, for example 50,000 Baht/month.

That depends what lifestyle means.

I cannot, for example,

- go out and eat huge amounts of food. I put on weight and basically feel uncomfortable.

- drink more than two large beers. I feel dreadful the next day (its an age related thing, when I was younger I could drink a lot more)

- sit around in girlie bars, too loud, the conversations drive me insane, one or twice a month is more than enough.

I do like walking, riding a bicycle, watching the ocean, visiting friends and having a garden. Costs nothing and as I do it in a tourist area, this is what a whole lot of people dream about doing 50 weeks of the year in the office.

I cannot be bothered with buying stuff to look at. Some people seem to take a delight in owning a houseful of stuff nailed to the wall, standing on floor or positioned on shelves. I do not understand it. Just collects dust and has to be cleaned.

So define what "Quality of Life" means,

For a lot of the more vocal people, it seems to me, it means spending more, getting drunker, having more women, having a bigger car and a bigger mansion than the next guy. I reckon it must be some penile size issue.

Quality of life for me is quietly enjoying the time I have left without unnecessary stress or worry.

10,000,000 Baht at the age of 65 is, for me, enough for another two decades at least. And if it ran out, I would become monk in some remote temple. After 85 I am not going to be chasing young women, and immigration is not going to come along and put me in the detention cells.......

[Asheron]

The shoebox condos that are selling for 500,000 baht are rented for less than 5000. I see condos like that on ramkhamheang being rented for 2000-3000 baht. Outside Bangkok it would be less.

I can tell you that in Ubon some smelly 4*4 meters shoebox room (you know the thai style rooms) is atleast 2000 baht to rent and that does not include water nor electricity. To not get more for a 5*5 meters showbox condo would be quite strange.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Asheron

[fish fingers]

Bear in mind that when you buy lots of condos the UK tax man will know, as you will be declaring what you are buying when you wire the money from your bank in the UK. Therefor you will probably have to pay capital gains in the UK on any property you sell in Thailand. Ad for rent, I'm not sure how you would get around that, but that is up to you. If you have a Thai wife you can legally gift her your money and then what its used for is no business of the UK tax man.

[Asheron]

What i would do with that kind of money is buy land in my childrens name, build about 50 rooms for rent, make an usufruct for everything and enjoy saving the money for renting the rooms for my children when i die.

[simon43]

Simon43..in which forum did you post details regarding the construction of the guest house ? Thanks in advance.

Not sure if the mods allow this to be mentioned, (in which case, my apologies).

The threads and photos are in the building sub-forum on <URL Automatically Removed>.

Search for threads about 'The City Resort', 'The Country Resort' and 'The Traditional Resort'.

I generally posted a timeline, with construction photos and comment.

10 million baht wont be easy to earn a monthly income to live in Thailand.

Hmm, my latest little guesthouse cost me 2.5m to build and since opening 8 months ago, it has earned me on average 160,000 baht per month. (Yes, I know most won't believe me).

Subtract 30k max for my monthly bills and I seem to be doing OK, (thanks to the lovely Chinese tourists in Phuket - Xie Xie!)

I learn over the past 10 or so years of running small hotels how NOT to do it. The most important thing is to lease land in your name for say 20 years and construct your buldings - no 3 year lease term with increasing rent. (My monthly land lease amount is just 16,000 baht, fixed for the next 18 years).

[Time Traveller]

I live here and have substantially more than that but it remains invested in shares on the Australian stock market. I have, with my wife, who still works, bought property here and I retain a reasonable amount in the bank but there is no way would I bring everything here. If something goes wrong, I can fall back on what I have and return to my country at anytime I choose, however, at this time, there is no intention to do so. But who knows what will happen in the future. Never burn your bridges.

The problem with that is

1. You're exposed to exchange rate risk. Your income can differ very dramatically year to year

2. You can not claim the franking credits in Australia if you don't live there. However, if you invested in Thai shares you would in fact be able to claim the Thai equivalent tax credits that dividends provide. Thats the benefit of Thai tax residence.

But at the end of the day, invest with what your happy with.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Time Traveller

[fish fingers]

Investing in condos is not a mugs game if you do your homework and are prepared to put some effort in. I get a 7% return.

If you look on DD Property and other sites you can sometimes find prime location condos which need fixing up. I am already doing this and have bought two, a 1.25M 35 sqm near the airport in a nice development in srinakarin which i rent mainly to stewardesses, and a 67 sqm condo in a prime part of Ekkamai for 3.2 M 2 years ago. I then did a complete redesign with new kitchen and rent it for just under 20,000b a month.

When you buy, watch the exchange rate like a hawk. I bought my last place in the middle of the troubles and chose the day of a big Suthep rally to negotiate with the thai bank intermediary, and got a very good rate that day.

One idea would be to buy smaller condos near prime BTS stations on sukhumvit road, this is good for AirBNB rentals

[fish fingers]

Hmm, my latest little guesthouse cost me 2.5m to build and since opening 8 months ago, it has earned me on average 160,000 baht per month. (Yes, I know most won't believe me).

I believe you and good on you, that is fantastic. Me and the wife want to do something like that in Bangkok with an old shophouse, but the investment is well over 10M, altho in the prime area near the river/BTS. The rental would net around 250-300,000 a month (10 rooms) if working on a 80% capacity

Edited July 16, 2015 by fish fingers

[12DrinkMore]

Bear in mind that when you buy lots of condos the UK tax man will know, as you will be declaring what you are buying when you wire the money from your bank in the UK. Therefor you will probably have to pay capital gains in the UK on any property you sell in Thailand. Ad for rent, I'm not sure how you would get around that, but that is up to you. If you have a Thai wife you can legally gift her your money and then what its used for is no business of the UK tax man.

The UK tax man has no claim on capital gains made outside the UK unless you remain domiciled in the UK. And even then there are double taxation agreements in place.

The declaration made on transferring the money is not made available to the UK tax man and, indeed, is none of his business unless it is part of some tax evasion issue on where the funds came from.

Tax on the income is payable in Thailand, a whole lot of landlords simply do not declare the income nor register the people staying in the property.

However going on into the future I am fairly certain that the amount of government monitoring and control will increase substantially. In this respect I am relieved to know that I will probably be dead before every single transaction will go through a computer and then subject to the scrutiny of the Controllers. in the "Meek New World".

The idea of a "cashless society" is one huge hideous nail in the coffin of freedom.

New Zealand and Scandavia are world leaders in this at the moment......

"oh, it is sooo convenient to tap the smart phone and pay for everything"

At that point they know exactly

- where you are

- what you have purchased

- your balance

- your telephone number

- your address

I simply do not want to be a part of that shit.

I pay by cash.

[12DrinkMore]

Simon43..in which forum did you post details regarding the construction of the guest house ? Thanks in advance.

Not sure if the mods allow this to be mentioned, (in which case, my apologies).

The threads and photos are in the building sub-forum on <URL Automatically Removed>.

Search for threads about 'The City Resort', 'The Country Resort' and 'The Traditional Resort'.

I generally posted a timeline, with construction photos and comment.

10 million baht wont be easy to earn a monthly income to live in Thailand.

Hmm, my latest little guesthouse cost me 2.5m to build and since opening 8 months ago, it has earned me on average 160,000 baht per month. (Yes, I know most won't believe me).

Subtract 30k max for my monthly bills and I seem to be doing OK, (thanks to the lovely Chinese tourists in Phuket - Xie Xie!)

I learn over the past 10 or so years of running small hotels how NOT to do it. The most important thing is to lease land in your name for say 20 years and construct your buldings - no 3 year lease term with increasing rent. (My monthly land lease amount is just 16,000 baht, fixed for the next 18 years).

Yes, the three year lease scam is an absolute killer for a business.

They do not have to renew, so as a renter you have to suck up the three yearly rental increases or move out.

And with the three year lease, the landlord does not have to enter it into the chanote, so all the income remains untaxed in his pocket. You will never get a receipt for the full rent paid. Not ever.

[Happy Grumpy]

You could in fact buy more than 20 condos easily.

If you wanted smaller 27square condos that needed a little work but great for rent, then you could buy well over 30 condos and rent for say 3 or 4k a month each.

Wow.

I'm off to the real estate agent as we speak.

[krisb]

You could in fact buy more than 20 condos easily.

If you wanted smaller 27square condos that needed a little work but great for rent, then you could buy well over 30 condos and rent for say 3 or 4k a month each.

Wow.

I'm off to the real estate agent as we speak.

Sarcasm not appreciated.

[Happy Grumpy]

The shoebox condos that are selling for 500,000 baht are rented for less than 5000. I see condos like that on ramkhamheang being rented for 2000-3000 baht. Outside Bangkok it would be less.

Hmm, I know plenty of 60square metre condos in Bang Na for 500k and aren't bad at all.

And by not bad I mean nice.

60sqm, for 500k, Within motosai taxi distance of a BTS station.

Send me a link and I'll give you 10% finder's fee.

[Canucklehead]

depending on what country you are from, why not buy a rental property , maybe you could buy one outright depending on the area? live on the income? I just bought one and plan to use the income it makes to travel and retire, if your focused on having to invest in LOS, then I would buy in Chaing mai where the chinese are buying up everything and the prices are starting to jump, I have friends there who have a huge spread of a house in a massive gated community , they built a house to western standards of all the luxuries, their home has almost doubled in value and seems a good place to invest, but 10m B won't buy and build what they have there. but with the Chinese investment train flowing in Prices in CM are certainly going high. they are also buying outright and not make the same mistakes the russians did in Pattaya by making payments on financed condos. when the money stopped with russia, the majority of them lost their vacation homes and now buying in Pattaya is like buying a T shirt, haggle and get it for almost half price. If your into the Pattaya lifestyle , maybe look there, huge deals, but you have to want the lifestyle....

Edited July 16, 2015 by Canucklehead

[chickenslegs]

With 10m baht, I could finally marry my girlfriend, who I love more than anything. I've been wondering for a long time how I'll be able to afford her dowry. She is from a really good family.

dow·ry

noun

noun: dowry; plural noun: dowries

1. property or money brought by a bride to her husband on their marriage.

Edited July 16, 2015 by chickenslegs

[krisb]

The shoebox condos that are selling for 500,000 baht are rented for less than 5000. I see condos like that on ramkhamheang being rented for 2000-3000 baht. Outside Bangkok it would be less.

Hmm, I know plenty of 60square metre condos in Bang Na for 500k and aren't bad at all.

And by not bad I mean nice.

60sqm, for 500k, Within motosai taxi distance of a BTS station.

Send me a link and I'll give you 10% finder's fee.

Make it 15% and it's a deal.

For 15% I'll send you a selection. The pic attached is a 500k condo, 60.18m. The second is 45squares, top floor corner unit(3 storey building)414k. Prices neg.

Edited July 16, 2015 by krisb

[Colininthailand]

Lived in Pattaya for nine years, now had enough , go home come back 3 or 4 times a year, enjoy myself more now I'm on holiday.

[sunshine51]

10M Baht available?....hmmmmm...yes I do have & more....so I sure as hell ain't

posting my intentions here that's for sure. If you have 10M you should know what

to do with it, so why ask.

[fish fingers]

The UK tax man has no claim on capital gains made outside the UK unless you remain domiciled in the UK. And even then there are double taxation agreements in place.

The declaration made on transferring the money is not made available to the UK tax man and, indeed, is none of his business unless it is part of some tax evasion issue on where the funds came from.

True, I'm only going by my own status i.e. still registered as living in the UK as I haven't spent the amount of time out in Thailand to qualify. Any idea how long that is and how long you are allowed back on visits before they declare that you are not eligible?

I had assumed that when you wire money through a UK bank electronically theres an electronic trail that could be traced if the taxman wanted to look into your tax affairs

[Craig krup]

I'd be combing the Thai stock market for shares with good yield and rising earnings.

While yields on condo units are quite good, a combination of pond life tenants, poor condo management and inability to sell out in timely fashion could wipe out any benefits. You can sell out of shares at the click of a mouse.

There are investment trusts and ishares which track both Thailand specifically and Far East emerging markets in general. If pound/dollar/euro does better than emerging market currencies, however, you'd want some earnings in these currencies. Say 50% Henderson Far East Income, JP Morgan Global Emerging Markets and the rest in UK high yield.

[saakura]

Learn how to sail! Buy a boat! Travel the world!

LOL. You must be a very old man in your eighties and still living in the past. 10m baht is hardly a huge amount today, can at best buy a cramped 60sqm condo close to a bts/mrt in midtown bangkok. And you think he can buy a luxury yacht and sail around the world for the rest of his life!!

[Craig krup]

For a start, 1Mbht condos generally rent for 3,000-4,000bht/month, tax on that income is 15%.

Who, therefore, in their right mind actually buys a condo? All the hassle of maintenance (which will always be more expensive if you aren't a local), questionable title over the property, treansaction costs if you want to sell up, subsidence and similar risk......all that for a gross yield of 3.6 to 4.8%.

Why wouldn't you invest your dough in something "yieldy" in the west and use the income to pay the rent? That way if a scooter repair centre or nightclub opens up next door you can move.

Too many westerners, Brits in particular, are obsessed with property ownership, and with a load of beliefs based on assumptions that might well be false.

[12DrinkMore]

The UK tax man has no claim on capital gains made outside the UK unless you remain domiciled in the UK. And even then there are double taxation agreements in place.

The declaration made on transferring the money is not made available to the UK tax man and, indeed, is none of his business unless it is part of some tax evasion issue on where the funds came from.

True, I'm only going by my own status i.e. still registered as living in the UK as I haven't spent the amount of time out in Thailand to qualify. Any idea how long that is and how long you are allowed back on visits before they declare that you are not eligible?

I had assumed that when you wire money through a UK bank electronically theres an electronic trail that could be traced if the taxman wanted to look into your tax affairs

I've been out of the UK for over 30 years. I am not sure what the latest requirements are to claim non-residence.

Sure there is an electronic trail, but the tax man needs a good case before he can access the information. And even then, I doubt whether the "for the purchase of a condo" bit will be of interest to him.