dotpoom Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 How lucky we all are to come from countries where this is unheard of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 How lucky we all are to come from countries where this is unheard of? This comment suggests to me that you really don't understand how corruption etc works in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocicat Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 About bloody time. Put all these scumbags in jail and lose the key. ANY corrupt person accumulating wealth through devious methods should be up in front of the people they have stolen from and let them stone the wrong doers. Even the road cop who for 200 bhat forgets about the speeding ticket or other road infraction. Put your money where your mouth is and do it!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshissan Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 About time this is implemented. It shows where ones priorities are when instead of trying to give amnesty to 25 000 corrupt people thus showing that crime does pay the govt is trying to strengthen the law to make the corrupt even more accountable. When one side tries to give corruption carte blanch though impunity I hear silence. When the other side want to enforce stronger deterrence to corruption I hear complaining. Well done. This govt have certainly got a second wind of late with their respect for the majority and their fight to suppress the criminal elements in society. Of course the criminal elements will be the most vocal to this current initiative. And what of the corrupt people in the government? Army? pollies? police? Who will guard against them? Other Army, pollies and Police? Not very likely, and I imagine all the afore-mentioned are more corrupt than the people you and others hate so much ever knew how to be. Lots of expats in TL (especially the BPB), need to take more care about who they listen to and to think with their head rather than their glans. To paraphrase Forrest Gump's mum, gullible is as gulllible does. One should never believe something someone says just to please them, that's what Thais do. In TL, corruption is the norm, not the exception, it's important to understand that. One thing that I have learned over many years reading TV is that you will get people on both sides of the argument that will never change their point of view even if it hits them in the face! The likes of Jamie and Halloween are so far up somewhere that their tickling his tonsils! I bet that they make their families recite the core values before they go to bed! Like many on here I have made Thailand my home many years ago, and have seen blatant corruption from whoever is in power at the time, being it red, yellow or green. By the way does anyone know who has the contracts, ie logistics etc, for the up coming infrastructure projects in Thailand? Wouldn't be a military man, or his family, by any chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nithisa78 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Not enough jails! tent cities and bread and water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Consider what is proposed without cynical bias....Thailand has been embroiled in corruption across trhe board for decades and more. In this shrinking world Thailand needs find a new way to forward itself. Past and present influentual members of political and /or/with business connections cannot have avoided participation. The proposal is that in the future such participation will be severely punished. Retrospective punishment for those who have already been censured would be vindictive as would witch hunting the involuntaries Current action against investigated / self exiled criminally charged or similar such individuals is mandatory regardless. The concept of the overall reforms is to try and create a new and legally enforcable platform politically/legislatively and thus beneficient to Thailand overall. Harking back to what is as if it will and must remain is a negative impediment that will only prolong the process. Cynical and derisive comment likely comes most from those that fear the loss of some advantage from the previous situation. This Junta is attempting a social revolution without the revolution on behalf of a population that in the majority have been kept nescient and incognizant by means of social/cultural/political manipulation. Resistance would seem selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
than Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Consider what is proposed without cynical bias....Thailand has been embroiled in corruption across trhe board for decades and more. In this shrinking world Thailand needs find a new way to forward itself. Past and present influentual members of political and /or/with business connections cannot have avoided participation. The proposal is that in the future such participation will be severely punished. Retrospective punishment for those who have already been censured would be vindictive as would witch hunting the involuntaries Current action against investigated / self exiled criminally charged or similar such individuals is mandatory regardless. The concept of the overall reforms is to try and create a new and legally enforcable platform politically/legislatively and thus beneficient to Thailand overall. Harking back to what is as if it will and must remain is a negative impediment that will only prolong the process. Cynical and derisive comment likely comes most from those that fear the loss of some advantage from the previous situation. This Junta is attempting a social revolution without the revolution on behalf of a population that in the majority have been kept nescient and incognizant by means of social/cultural/political manipulation. Resistance would seem selfish. good analysis of the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Consider what is proposed without cynical bias....Thailand has been embroiled in corruption across trhe board for decades and more. In this shrinking world Thailand needs find a new way to forward itself. Past and present influentual members of political and /or/with business connections cannot have avoided participation. The proposal is that in the future such participation will be severely punished. Retrospective punishment for those who have already been censured would be vindictive as would witch hunting the involuntaries Current action against investigated / self exiled criminally charged or similar such individuals is mandatory regardless. The concept of the overall reforms is to try and create a new and legally enforcable platform politically/legislatively and thus beneficient to Thailand overall. Harking back to what is as if it will and must remain is a negative impediment that will only prolong the process. Cynical and derisive comment likely comes most from those that fear the loss of some advantage from the previous situation. This Junta is attempting a social revolution without the revolution on behalf of a population that in the majority have been kept nescient and incognizant by means of social/cultural/political manipulation. Resistance would seem selfish. "This Junta is attempting a social revolution " Your entire argument seems to be based on this highly dubious, naive..........even oxymoronic assumption. (Good name BTW) Edited July 19, 2015 by cumgranosalum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdoglover Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Even application of criminal law in Thailand is elusive, to say the least. Increasing penalties for certain categories of people and offences, under the circunstances, is not likely to lead to better justice. By way of analogy, this like giving a poor marksman a higher caliber weapon and expecting better results. The more cynical me sees this as simply a way for non-politicians to thin out the competition. After all, it is in response to polticians trying to enhance their hold on government in 2013. For the good of the country now? That is highly debatable (see thread above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksamuiguy Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 About Time, make it a law and enforce it, no exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastguy Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 All corrupt officials should not only face criminal charges and jail time, they should face their own special charges for "damaging the position." Because the truth is that much of governance relies on the trust of the public to function properly, and when an official is corrupt in Job X, that tarnishes the image of Job X, and corrodes the public faith in this official position in the future. So the damage is not limited to the money lost due to corrupt activities, but to the far more harmful damage done to the public perception of the official structures in question. This has been talked about for decades, and the phrase "slippery slope" has often been used, and rightly so, societal stability and national prosperity relies greatly on how much the public believes in the self-regulating mechanisms at the top. Swift action and serious prison sentences for official corruption will always result in greater public and business optimism, and greater national success. It also sends out a clear message to the younger generation, that corruption is wrong and is not tolerated in professional working life. I agree entirely with your post, in most situations it would make common sense to have this kind of punishment in place.... but this is Thailand and in most cases it's the very people who make the rules & regulations that would suffer the most at their own laws as they are the ones most likely to break them !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwikeith Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Not enough jails! Correct! good place to start, The Burmese Trial! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 All corrupt officials should not only face criminal charges and jail time, they should face their own special charges for "damaging the position." Because the truth is that much of governance relies on the trust of the public to function properly, and when an official is corrupt in Job X, that tarnishes the image of Job X, and corrodes the public faith in this official position in the future. So the damage is not limited to the money lost due to corrupt activities, but to the far more harmful damage done to the public perception of the official structures in question. This has been talked about for decades, and the phrase "slippery slope" has often been used, and rightly so, societal stability and national prosperity relies greatly on how much the public believes in the self-regulating mechanisms at the top. Swift action and serious prison sentences for official corruption will always result in greater public and business optimism, and greater national success. It also sends out a clear message to the younger generation, that corruption is wrong and is not tolerated in professional working life. I agree entirely with your post, in most situations it would make common sense to have this kind of punishment in place.... but this is Thailand and in most cases it's the very people who make the rules & regulations that would suffer the most at their own laws as they are the ones most likely to break them !!! I totally agree, and it is clear that uprooting corruption in some nations will take many generations. But I support the current government for talking about this problem in the media every week, and taking steps to stamp out corruption in a few isolated puddles, while the wider ocean of corruption remains unstamped. They are setting the ball rolling, and it is important that they do this with great fanfare in the media, as they are doing. Kids who see otherwise successful adults being sent to jail for corruption, are learning in the powerful formative way that only children can learn, that you can build a successful life at the very top of society, and still lose everything if you give in to corruption. This lesson is so important, and gradually through the generations this will become a mainstream view. But the pace of change is glacial, it will take many generations to normalise this anti-corruption viewpoint. The morality of it all can be safely forgotten, but kids should understand that corruption equals poverty, sickness, ignorance. Everything breaks down in corrupt societies, and everybody loses all the important things like decent pay, clean food and water and medicines, quality education. This is the selling-point of tackling corruption, it will make everybody more prosperous, smarter, healthier and happier. Everybody wants those positive things, the important issue is making the younger generations understand that corruption turns even these most basic life-rewards into fairy gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callaway Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 If corrupt politicians all went to gaol there would not be one left. They would need more gaols. Not one would pass a scruple test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 "A Step in the Right Direction" seems to be the current government's motto. One problem is they only take one step. Another problem is the step never involves their side, except as a token gesture. Go figure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 2 individuals express anti-corruption proposals, and on TVF we see this huge wave of negativity. What is wrong with those that can't possibly accept any good can come from a military government? Should nothing be done and corruption allowed to flourish? Can anybody really believe that the corrupt politicians elected in the past would make such a proposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 2 individuals express anti-corruption proposals, and on TVF we see this huge wave of negativity. What is wrong with those that can't possibly accept any good can come from a military government? Should nothing be done and corruption allowed to flourish? Can anybody really believe that the corrupt politicians elected in the past would make such a proposal? I agree with you that in Thailand a military Govt is pretty much the only one that can tackle corruption, elected Govts openly have to court popularity, and it would be suicidal for any party to aggressively try to cut out corruption when a) they are all at it & others who are corrupt are extremely powerful and chasing down corruption in certain areas could well see a very short time span in office indeed. Corruption is so ingrained that it is nigh on impossible to get rid of it, in my opinion, as least in the short to medium turn. Of course it is possible to get rid of it eventually, but given how the society works here, its hierarchal and nepotistic nature, and the fact that the most corrupt areas are those which are supposed to be leading the country and setting an example, i find it difficult to see any great changes without real mass public unrest. Sure, the different color coded politics, the police and the army like to fight among themselves for power, but one thing is for sure is that they would all come together very quickly if major changes in society structure were afoot and they stood to lose their positions collectively. The army does have the power to do something, albeit i still think their overall power to do something is limited, the same it is with political parties. At the moment they seem to just be tip toeing around the issues. Occasionally something good is put forward, but will anything ever be moved forward and changed, when their are huge question marks on the morals, ethics of those supposed to uphold the law. The army, like any political party are far from corruption free, and in my opinion are also beholden to politicians, wealthy backers and a lot of others who have shown good will to the army in the coup moving forward. If they army started to look at corruption into those areas, again like a political party their rein may be short lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveling Sailor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Changes required in Thailand are of a magnitude that only a prolonged period of blood and fire will bring the change. When all is done the French can send a statue as a gift. Perhaps Thailand needs a French style revolution?? Off with their heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z42 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Poom is fatalistic. Well the only reason he thinks the decision at the end is a foregone conclusion is because he knows that he was caught red handed, he is bang to rights. They deserve jail and chances are they won't get bail too easily or at least not straight away. Good that he is sweating about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Changes required in Thailand are of a magnitude that only a prolonged period of blood and fire will bring the change. When all is done the French can send a statue as a gift. Perhaps Thailand needs a French style revolution?? Off with their heads! Agreed. I always thought that during a coup the walls of parliament could be put to a better use than holding up the roof. "An ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination" Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Right off the Bat. corruption kəˈrʌpʃ(ə)n/ noun noun: corruption; plural noun: corruptions 1. dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery. "the journalist who wants to expose corruption in high places" synonyms: dishonesty, dishonest dealings, unscrupulousness, deceit, deception, duplicity, double-dealing, fraud, fraudulence, misconduct, lawbreaking, crime, criminality, delinquency, wrongdoing, villainy; More bribery, bribing, subornation, venality, graft, extortion, jobbery, profiteering; payola; informalcrookedness, shadiness, sleaze, palm-greasing; malfeasance, misfeasance; archaicknavery; raremalversation "senior officials have been implicated in corruption" antonyms: honesty the action or effect of making someone or something morally depraved. "the corruption of youth was a powerful motif" synonyms: sin, sinfulness, ungodliness, unrighteousness, profanity, impiety, impurity; More immorality, depravity, vice, iniquity, turpitude, degeneracy, perversion, pervertedness, debauchery, dissolution, dissoluteness, decadence, profligacy, wantonness, indecency, lasciviousness, lewdness, lechery; wickedness, evil, baseness, vileness "he is aware of his fall into corruption" antonyms: morality, purity 2. the process by which a word or expression is changed from its original state to one regarded as erroneous or debased. "a record of a word's corruption" synonyms: alteration, falsification, doctoring, manipulation, manipulating, fudging, adulteration, debasement, degradation, abuse, subversion, misrepresentation, misapplication; rarevitiation "these figures have been subject to corruption" the process by which a computer database or program becomes debased by alteration or the introduction of errors. "this procedure creates a temporary file to prevent accidental corruption" 3. archaic the process of decay; putrefaction. "the potato turned black and rotten with corruption" Anyone who doesn't believe that corruption isn't still going on in Thailand today, is naive at best, ignorant at worst. The only time we get to hear about it, is AFTER someone's been caught out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Pointless...they will be out on bail pending appeal for ever and never see the inside of a jail cell....and that's if they even get a successful prosecution in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Sure. Corrupt politicians and corrupt bankers should be tossed into jail, but only Iceland seems to be doing that at the moment. In the US and London? S**t, launder money for the drug cartels, get caught, and get a wrist slap. And nobody goes to jail. I'm way, way past be disillusioned with the status quo. Corruption in the West makes this petty corruption in the East look like child's play. For those who understand, which is a fraction of a percent of TV member, do you realize that when the US passed the last budget, they assumed the responsibility for all the derivatives exposure of the 'To Big To Fail' banks. And for that fraction of a fraction of a percent of US TV members, do you even have an itsy-bitsy clue at to what the Glass-Steagal Act was, why it was repealed, and why it will never be reenacted again short of an economic collapse, and I don't even think that will be enough catalyst. But, but, Warren and McCain (in the middle of an election cycle) introduced the legislation to be reenacted!!!!! Baaaaaaaa. Hey, I have a bridge over the Kwai River that I'll sell you for satang on the baht. Sheep. Edited July 20, 2015 by connda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Consider what is proposed without cynical bias....Thailand has been embroiled in corruption across trhe board for decades and more. In this shrinking world Thailand needs find a new way to forward itself. Past and present influentual members of political and /or/with business connections cannot have avoided participation. The proposal is that in the future such participation will be severely punished. Retrospective punishment for those who have already been censured would be vindictive as would witch hunting the involuntaries Current action against investigated / self exiled criminally charged or similar such individuals is mandatory regardless. The concept of the overall reforms is to try and create a new and legally enforcable platform politically/legislatively and thus beneficient to Thailand overall. Harking back to what is as if it will and must remain is a negative impediment that will only prolong the process. Cynical and derisive comment likely comes most from those that fear the loss of some advantage from the previous situation. This Junta is attempting a social revolution without the revolution on behalf of a population that in the majority have been kept nescient and incognizant by means of social/cultural/political manipulation. Resistance would seem selfish. "This Junta is attempting a social revolution " Your entire argument seems to be based on this highly dubious, naive..........even oxymoronic assumption. (Good name BTW) If there was real evidence of substance rather than contrived accusations, cynical conjecture and suspicion of motive in spite of the rhetoric of the proposal then yes....that would be oxymoronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z42 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I know that you can get your assets seized for having unusual wealth so is there something equivalent if you are unusually poor? Regrettably yes, it's called prison, Populated exclusively by poor and expendable people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Right off the Bat. corruption kəˈrʌpʃ(ə)n/ noun noun: corruption; plural noun: corruptions 1. dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery. "the journalist who wants to expose corruption in high places" synonyms: dishonesty, dishonest dealings, unscrupulousness, deceit, deception, duplicity, double-dealing, fraud, fraudulence, misconduct, lawbreaking, crime, criminality, delinquency, wrongdoing, villainy; More bribery, bribing, subornation, venality, graft, extortion, jobbery, profiteering; payola; informalcrookedness, shadiness, sleaze, palm-greasing; malfeasance, misfeasance; archaicknavery; raremalversation "senior officials have been implicated in corruption" antonyms: honesty the action or effect of making someone or something morally depraved. "the corruption of youth was a powerful motif" synonyms: sin, sinfulness, ungodliness, unrighteousness, profanity, impiety, impurity; More immorality, depravity, vice, iniquity, turpitude, degeneracy, perversion, pervertedness, debauchery, dissolution, dissoluteness, decadence, profligacy, wantonness, indecency, lasciviousness, lewdness, lechery; wickedness, evil, baseness, vileness "he is aware of his fall into corruption" antonyms: morality, purity 2. the process by which a word or expression is changed from its original state to one regarded as erroneous or debased. "a record of a word's corruption" synonyms: alteration, falsification, doctoring, manipulation, manipulating, fudging, adulteration, debasement, degradation, abuse, subversion, misrepresentation, misapplication; rarevitiation "these figures have been subject to corruption" the process by which a computer database or program becomes debased by alteration or the introduction of errors. "this procedure creates a temporary file to prevent accidental corruption" 3. archaic the process of decay; putrefaction. "the potato turned black and rotten with corruption" Anyone who doesn't believe that corruption isn't still going on in Thailand today, is naive at best, ignorant at worst. The only time we get to hear about it, is AFTER someone's been caught out. Who does not believe that corruption is not going on in Thailand today ? I would have thought it was a well known fact. The only posters on TVF who would possibly hint that the present government was "clean" are looking for a bite from the resident junta bashers. Don't confuse posters who criticize the Shins for their blatant displays of corruption with someone who thinks corruption is not still happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBill Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Better start building some more prisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Start handing out 30 year prison sentences and see what happens to corruption after that Fully agree I see a small flaw in your observations....... What happens after that is the corrupt avoid procpsecution and conviction...... by being corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Anyone who doesn't believe that corruption isn't still going on in Thailand today, is naive at best, ignorant at worst. Speaking of ignorant, has anyone ever actually posted what your infer has been posted, that corruption has been eliminated? . I guess no one has posted what you infer has been posted. Just more obfuscation. Status quo. I think you need to look up the difference between "infer" ad "imply" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Start handing out 30 year prison sentences and see what happens to corruption after that Fully agree I see a small flaw in your observations....... What happens after that is the corrupt avoid procpsecution and conviction...... by being corrupt. Sorry, but I don't agree. Surely if some of the "bent" politicians/police/Military started to cop long prison sentences, assets confiscated etc for being corrupt it would act as a deterrent to the others. (But then again a leopard cannot change his spots and this is Thailand.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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