Trump stirs new controversy by criticizing McCain war record

[Ulysses G.]

I am generalizing, but those without a military history have usually been better presidents.

No. You are stating your opinion with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

[rijb]

The only way a POW can be heroic is by keeping his/her mouth shut and doing whatever can be done to help the others survive the ordeal. There is evidence that John McCain qualifies in neither of these categories. A hero gives himself up for the good of the team/group/individual. I don't see John McCain as being selfless in any way shape or form.

Ever been to Kanchanaburi? You just know you have never been in the military nor your father.

Where did some people get the idea that serving in the military qualifies one to lead a country?

Basically it means you have been trained to do what you are told to do and not think about it or question it.

I think free thinkers who question everything are much better suited to make the decisions needed to run a country.

Unless you are looking for a president who blindly follows the instructions of others, like the corporations who now own the political system in the U.S.

I was born during the Eisenhower administration and far more people without military experience have been elected as president in my life time than those with a military history.

I am generalizing, but those without a military history have usually been better presidents.

Have you ever been in the military?

There was no expectation for us to be drones. We were trained to question unlawful orders.

We also learned to avoid speaking out of our butt. You must have missed that day.

[Ulysses G.]

One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

[willyumiii]

One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

I do not know Trump's draft history or his motives.

You seem to be blind to the fact that many who refuse to serve in the militant, especially during the failed attempted occupation of Vietnam by the U.S, refused because they were aware that the military action was immoral and criminal.

The CIA created the government of "South Vietnam" and then the US sent in the military in to defend it.

To the Vietnamese people there never was a North and South Vietnam.

To them it always was as it it today...Vietnam.

Those who resisted serving in Vietnam were brave young men. It was a very popular stance to take in America until the country woke up to the atrocity it was.

Those who did serve, were just foolish young men who went with the flow, didn't give it much thought and were not really heroes at all.

It was a corporate war like most since WWII. fought for oil and corporate profits.

The corporations lost, the people won.

I was one who refused to serve on moral grounds and to this day I am proud I did.

It was the first time in history the American people force their government to stop an immoral military action.

Chicken shi**, as you call it is killing innocent people for the profit of others!

[rijb]

Did you do alternate service, as a conscientious objector? Or did you run to Canada and hide under your bed?

[Neurath]

One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

Thanks for the link. So the crazies behind the original attack on McCain are the same crazies behind the attack on Kerry! Seems those guys - Gerard W. Kiley and Ted Sampley - have created a cultural meme.

[Neurath]

One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

I do not know Trump's draft history or his motives.

You seem to be blind to the fact that many who refuse to serve in the militant, especially during the failed attempted occupation of Vietnam by the U.S, refused because they were aware that the military action was immoral and criminal.

The CIA created the government of "South Vietnam" and then the US sent in the military in to defend it.

To the Vietnamese people there never was a North and South Vietnam.

To them it always was as it it today...Vietnam.

Those who resisted serving in Vietnam were brave young men. It was a very popular stance to take in America until the country woke up to the atrocity it was.

Those who did serve, were just foolish young men who went with the flow, didn't give it much thought and were not really heroes at all.

It was a corporate war like most since WWII. fought for oil and corporate profits.

The corporations lost, the people won.

I was one who refused to serve on moral grounds and to this day I am proud I did.

It was the first time in history the American people force their government to stop an immoral military action.

Chicken shi**, as you call it is killing innocent people for the profit of others!

More than a bit unfair to those who went with a conviction that they were doing the right thing. You can disagree that it was the right thing, but that's a different matter.

[willyumiii]

Did you do alternate service, as a conscientious objector? Or did you run to Canada and hide under your bed?

I have only been to Canada once in my life.

When I was a firefighter for the U.S.Forest Service in 1995, I was fighting a fire in Northern Washington state.

My crew and I broke the law, and hiked about eight miles across a canyon , and the Canadian border, to put out a spot fire and prevent it from becoming a big problem. It was a pretty arduous walk!

I have never hid under anyone's bed.

[impulse]

Did you do alternate service, as a conscientious objector? Or did you run to Canada and hide under your bed?

That was my plan, had I been 2 years older.

My issue wasn't fighting for my country. It was fighting in an immoral war, 10,000 miles away that was of no benefit to my country.

And since I had no honest objection to picking up a weapon if they invaded California, that would have disqualified me for conscientious objector status.

So I was going to Canada to hide under my bed. Because I also refused to go to prison for refusing to fight in an immoral war. And for that, I don't apologize one bit.

Thankfully, I missed it by 2 years.

[Pinot]

I don't have a problem with McClain's war record. It's everything that came after that. All that crap he's spewed for years on the Sunday talkers.

Sung to the tune of "Three Blind Mice"

War, war, war

War, war, war

Oh yea, let's not forget that brilliant Sarah Palin move. He would have been the worst President in history...oh wait.

I'm kidding, he never had a chance, thank Buddha.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Pinot

[Ulysses G.]

The CIA created the government of "South Vietnam" and then the US sent in the military in to defend it.

To the Vietnamese people there never was a North and South Vietnam.

To them it always was as it it today...Vietnam.

This is accurate as most of your posts. South Vietnam was founded in 1955, but it existed before that under several different names. In 1949, non-communist Vietnamese politicians formed a government in Saigon led by former emperor Bảo Đại. America did not get seriously involved until much later.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[willyumiii]

I am generalizing, but those without a military history have usually been better presidents.

ord

No. You are stating your opinion with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

I apologist General.

Your comment got me to do a little research.

I found out that:

G.H. Bush

Gerald Ford

Richard Nixon

and Lyndon Johnson

were all in the Naval Reserves.

Ronald Reagan was in the Army Reserves

Jimmy Carter and John Kennedy were in the Navy.

Dwight Eisenhower was in the Army

I don't think G.W. Bush's "effort" counts due to the following report:

George W. Bush Texas Air National Guard First Lieutenant Stateside service as pilot during Vietnam War (1968–1973). No records of attendance at scheduled training for multiple periods. Removed from flying status on August 1, 1972 after failing to take required physical exam. Received early discharge in 1973.^[1]

I stand corrected

Edited July 21, 2015 by willyumiii

[willyumiii]

The CIA created the government of "South Vietnam" and then the US sent in the military in to defend it.

To the Vietnamese people there never was a North and South Vietnam.

To them it always was as it it today...Vietnam.

This is accurate as most of your posts. South Vietnam was founded in 1955, but it existed before that under several different names. In 1949, non-communist Vietnamese politicians formed a government in Saigon led by former emperor Bảo Đại. America did not get seriously involved until much later.

If you want to go back far enough General, we coul include the French involvement before the U.S. as well.

Are you telling me the CIA had nothing to do with "installing" a pupet government thet the U.S. wanted?

[Ulysses G.]

The CIA created the government of "South Vietnam" and then the US sent in the military in to defend it.

To the Vietnamese people there never was a North and South Vietnam.

To them it always was as it it today...Vietnam.

This is accurate as most of your posts. South Vietnam was founded in 1955, but it existed before that under several different names. In 1949, non-communist Vietnamese politicians formed a government in Saigon led by former emperor Bảo Đại. America did not get seriously involved until much later.

If you want to go back far enough General, we coul include the French involvement before the U.S. as well.

Yes we could. That was my point and the CIA was not controlling them either.

[Publicus]

It's the old land war in Asia thing. Don't do it. The Vietnam War was a loser from the outset and sorry to say so were most of those who went over to fight in it.

McCain went because he was a career Naval officer, a grad of the US Naval Academy. The Navy is as much at fault for McCain because it had made evident long before McCain graduated from the Academy he must never be entrusted with any serious responsibility or command.

MCCain belonged as laundry and morale officer on the Forrestal instead of a combat pilot. He's a compulsive political moralizer but a lousy Naval technician.

Dunno how many POWs were guests at the Hanoi Hilton but McCain managed somehow to become the central POW and the focus of 'em all. I suspect he'll also screw up his autobiography when he finally gets around to writing it.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Publicus

[spidermike007]

One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

Thanks for the link. So the crazies behind the original attack on McCain are the same crazies behind the attack on Kerry! Seems those guys - Gerard W. Kiley and Ted Sampley - have created a cultural meme.

If this is true, perhaps these two should be tried for treason and executed. A just punishment for two punks who are always trying to stir things up and trash a mans reputation. The attack on Kerry was shameful. These worms are in need of a bit of discipline. Any volunteers?

[Lex Talionis]

One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

Thanks for the link. So the crazies behind the original attack on McCain are the same crazies behind the attack on Kerry! Seems those guys - Gerard W. Kiley and Ted Sampley - have created a cultural meme.

If this is true, perhaps these two should be tried for treason and executed. A just punishment for two punks who are always trying to stir things up and trash a mans reputation. The attack on Kerry was shameful. These worms are in need of a bit of discipline. Any volunteers?

I'd be more than happy to woodshed these two scumbags. But when you meet up with marionettes you have to look up. Follow the strings. Try to see who's standing in the dark, working them. Those are the men I'd really like to get my hands on.

[spidermike007]

"Yesterday, 11:13"]One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/Thanks for the link. So the crazies behind the original attack on McCain are the same crazies behind the attack on Kerry! Seems those guys - Gerard W. Kiley and Ted Sampley - have created a cultural meme.

If this is true, perhaps these two should be tried for treason and executed. A just punishment for two punks who are always trying to stir things up and trash a mans reputation. The attack on Kerry was shameful. These worms are in need of a bit of discipline. Any volunteers?

I'd be more than happy to woodshed these two scumbags. But when you meet up with marionettes you have to look up. Follow the strings. Try to see who's standing in the dark, working them. Those are the men I'd really like to get my hands on.

I agree with everything you said. I would also love to have a chance to "work" on Kiley and Sampley, who are two bit whores, that are simply working for the guy with the most cash, and do not have a single moral fiber in their beings. They are mere schills. Completely bankrupt souls, willing to create falsehoods and lies about decent men, to further a political objective. it does not get much lower than that. These fools are committing treason in my opinion, and quite possibly deserve the death penalty. And many call me liberal minded! At least I used to be, before the democratic party was taken over by fools and charlatans.

As for the cowardice of Disgusting Don, where do I start? Not only does he do everything in his power to avoid serving his country, but then he goes on national television, and says he would have been proud to serve. It simply does not get any more disingenuous than that. He is a thieving, lying, crime boss. He is vermin. He is a very low life form, manifesting itself in a human body. The fact that he is leading in the polls means only two things. Either the American people have become so intolerant, that the racist hatred this moron spouts really resonates with them, or he is buying the pollsters, which is a strong possibility. Either way, the result is ugly and sad.

As far as sheer cowardice goes, I always say, it is best for the American people to avoid electing a leader who has not served on the front lines. Only someone who has, knows the true horror of war. Immense cowards like Dickless Cheney, Tiny George II, Wolfowitz the warmonger, and Disgusting Donald do everything in their power to avoid serving their country, and have no concept of what that experience is like, and do not hesitate to put our boys into harms way. The proposal I have, is that if a future president wants to declare war on a country, then he or she will be required to sacrifice one of their kids to serve in that war. Are you serious enough about this war, to lose one of your children over? If not, do not declare war. Save the treasury trillions, and save thousands of American lives, and hundreds of thousands of lives in the country you are about to invade.

Lastly, how did Iraq and Afghanistan work out? How did the US adventures in "democracy building" in Libya, Algeria, and Egypt work out? Is is possible for American politicians to learn anything from the past?

[Lex Talionis]

"Yesterday, 11:13"]One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

Thanks for the link. So the crazies behind the original attack on McCain are the same crazies behind the attack on Kerry! Seems those guys - Gerard W. Kiley and Ted Sampley - have created a cultural meme.

If this is true, perhaps these two should be tried for treason and executed. A just punishment for two punks who are always trying to stir things up and trash a mans reputation. The attack on Kerry was shameful. These worms are in need of a bit of discipline. Any volunteers?

I'd be more than happy to woodshed these two scumbags. But when you meet up with marionettes you have to look up. Follow the strings. Try to see who's standing in the dark, working them. Those are the men I'd really like to get my hands on.

I agree with everything you said. I would also love to have a chance to "work" on Kiley and Sampley, who are two bit whores, that are simply working for the guy with the most cash, and do not have a single moral fiber in their beings. They are mere schills. Completely bankrupt souls, willing to create falsehoods and lies about decent men, to further a political objective. it does not get much lower than that. These fools are committing treason in my opinion, and quite possibly deserve the death penalty. And many call me liberal minded! At least I used to be, before the democratic party was taken over by fools and charlatans.

As for the cowardice of Disgusting Don, where do I start? Not only does he do everything in his power to avoid serving his country, but then he goes on national television, and says he would have been proud to serve. It simply does not get any more disingenuous than that. He is a thieving, lying, crime boss. He is vermin. He is a very low life form, manifesting itself in a human body. The fact that he is leading in the polls means only two things. Either the American people have become so intolerant, that the racist hatred this moron spouts really resonates with them, or he is buying the pollsters, which is a strong possibility. Either way, the result is ugly and sad.

As far as sheer cowardice goes, I always say, it is best for the American people to avoid electing a leader who has not served on the front lines. Only someone who has, knows the true horror of war. Immense cowards like Dickless Cheney, Tiny George II, Wolfowitz the warmonger, and Disgusting Donald do everything in their power to avoid serving their country, and have no concept of what that experience is like, and do not hesitate to put our boys into harms way. The proposal I have, is that if a future president wants to declare war on a country, then he or she will be required to sacrifice one of their kids to serve in that war. Are you serious enough about this war, to lose one of your children over? If not, do not declare war. Save the treasury trillions, and save thousands of American lives, and hundreds of thousands of lives in the country you are about to invade.

Lastly, how did Iraq and Afghanistan work out? How did the US adventures in "democracy building" in Libya, Algeria, and Egypt work out? Is is possible for American politicians to learn anything from the past?

Sadly I think the answer to your last question is no, it's not possible. Did they learn anything from the Vietnam war? They said they did and then marched right on in to Afghanistan & Iraq. 2 more "quagmires". Did they learn anything from Prohibition? After it's 30 year run (and still counting) just take a look at what the "war on drugs" has cost in terms of wasted lives & misspent money. It has empowered some of the world's most savage monsters, modern day headhunters who are now financially big enough to bomb courts, assassinate governors & judges, shoot down army helicopters... tear apart the very fabric of a society.

No the old phrase that goes something like: "if you don't know history you are condemned to repeat it" only applies to that now nearly extinct breed: the statesman. Not today's politicians (both parties). They have their hidden agendas & super-pac puppetmasters pulling their strings, Folks forget that it didn't always used to be like that in America.

Trump the chump embodies everything that is worst about the country. And he's leading in the (Republican) polls. Proving that demagogues like him can play dumb folks like a fiddle.

[thaibeachlovers]

Trump said he avoided service in the Vietnam War through student deferments and a medical deferment, then said he didn't serve because "I was not a big fan of the Vietnam war

Those ( obviously anti Trump, probably liberal ) authors are LYING. They just can't help themselves, can they.

I saw that interview when Trump said that, but he said NOTHING about not serving because he wasn't a fan of the war, though he added that as a comment, not as a reason. Much of the country wasn't a fan of the VN war at that time.

[spidermike007]

Trump said he avoided service in the Vietnam War through student deferments and a medical deferment, then said he didn't serve because "I was not a big fan of the Vietnam war

Those ( obviously anti Trump, probably liberal ) authors are LYING. They just can't help themselves, can they.

I saw that interview when Trump said that, but he said NOTHING about not serving because he wasn't a fan of the war, though he added that as a comment, not as a reason. Much of the country wasn't a fan of the VN war at that time.

It is simply impossible to believe anything this pathological liar says. In that sense he is well equipped to be president. In all other aspects, would be best if he just crawled under a rock. All of mankind would benefit from that.

[Publicus]

"Yesterday, 11:13"]One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

Thanks for the link. So the crazies behind the original attack on McCain are the same crazies behind the attack on Kerry! Seems those guys - Gerard W. Kiley and Ted Sampley - have created a cultural meme.

If this is true, perhaps these two should be tried for treason and executed. A just punishment for two punks who are always trying to stir things up and trash a mans reputation. The attack on Kerry was shameful. These worms are in need of a bit of discipline. Any volunteers?

I'd be more than happy to woodshed these two scumbags. But when you meet up with marionettes you have to look up. Follow the strings. Try to see who's standing in the dark, working them. Those are the men I'd really like to get my hands on.

I agree with everything you said. I would also love to have a chance to "work" on Kiley and Sampley, who are two bit whores, that are simply working for the guy with the most cash, and do not have a single moral fiber in their beings. They are mere schills. Completely bankrupt souls, willing to create falsehoods and lies about decent men, to further a political objective. it does not get much lower than that. These fools are committing treason in my opinion, and quite possibly deserve the death penalty. And many call me liberal minded! At least I used to be, before the democratic party was taken over by fools and charlatans.

As for the cowardice of Disgusting Don, where do I start? Not only does he do everything in his power to avoid serving his country, but then he goes on national television, and says he would have been proud to serve. It simply does not get any more disingenuous than that. He is a thieving, lying, crime boss. He is vermin. He is a very low life form, manifesting itself in a human body. The fact that he is leading in the polls means only two things. Either the American people have become so intolerant, that the racist hatred this moron spouts really resonates with them, or he is buying the pollsters, which is a strong possibility. Either way, the result is ugly and sad.

As far as sheer cowardice goes, I always say, it is best for the American people to avoid electing a leader who has not served on the front lines. Only someone who has, knows the true horror of war. Immense cowards like Dickless Cheney, Tiny George II, Wolfowitz the warmonger, and Disgusting Donald do everything in their power to avoid serving their country, and have no concept of what that experience is like, and do not hesitate to put our boys into harms way. The proposal I have, is that if a future president wants to declare war on a country, then he or she will be required to sacrifice one of their kids to serve in that war. Are you serious enough about this war, to lose one of your children over? If not, do not declare war. Save the treasury trillions, and save thousands of American lives, and hundreds of thousands of lives in the country you are about to invade.

Lastly, how did Iraq and Afghanistan work out? How did the US adventures in "democracy building" in Libya, Algeria, and Egypt work out? Is is possible for American politicians to learn anything from the past?

The fact that he is leading in the polls means only two things. Either the American people have become so intolerant, that the racist hatred this moron spouts really resonates with them, or he is buying the pollsters, which is a strong possibility.

Neither is the case and they certainly are not fact.

Your posts are normally good from my perspective so I'd only advise to maintain some perspective in this Trump matter, which means not jumping to sweeping or drastic generalisations thx, radical ones besides.

Kindly keep in mind the polling is almost entirely of Republican party voters or, in some instances, of R voters and Independent voters leaning Republican based on past elections. Those among 'em who support Trump are a sliver of a minority to begin with.

The ABCNews/Washington Post poll published yesterday which was the first reliable survey of all registered voters found 20% would vote for Trump as an independent candidate, if Trump chooses to take that route, which is a real possibility. That is the same as the anti-establishment rouser Ross Perot got in his Independent candidacy in 1992 and the republic continues to survive. Twenty percent of 220m registered voters (represented) in the ABC/WaPo survey is equal to the population of Australia.

The rest of us outdo the population of Russia (to include smarts).

[Publicus]

Trump said he avoided service in the Vietnam War through student deferments and a medical deferment, then said he didn't serve because "I was not a big fan of the Vietnam war

Those ( obviously anti Trump, probably liberal ) authors are LYING. They just can't help themselves, can they.

I saw that interview when Trump said that, but he said NOTHING about not serving because he wasn't a fan of the war, though he added that as a comment, not as a reason. Much of the country wasn't a fan of the VN war at that time.

Who believes anything Trump says.

Anytime to anyone anywhere on any matter, to include his bloated wealth statements.

The Bloviator.

[willyumiii]

"Yesterday, 11:13"]One who collaborates with the enemy after a few days is a traitor, not a hero

That statement is a lot worse than the one Trump made. You claim to have inside information that McCain was a collaborator. Don't you think if Trump could have made the case that McCain was a collaborator that he would have? Jacky I just don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Having been there in the same situation, if I had been captured I'd have shot myself. I think it takes a brave man to endured captivity in North Vietnam.

A man is a man after all and although I think it was braver to have gone to jail than gone to Vietnam - Trump is still a chicken **it draft dodger. The brave Americans stood up and went to the Federal Penitentiary for their beliefs - the chickensh*** got deferments or ran away to Canada or went to school at Oxford.

There is no credible evidence that McCain collaborated with the enemy or was a traitor. There is a lot of evidence that neither claim is true.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

Thanks for the link. So the crazies behind the original attack on McCain are the same crazies behind the attack on Kerry! Seems those guys - Gerard W. Kiley and Ted Sampley - have created a cultural meme.

If this is true, perhaps these two should be tried for treason and executed. A just punishment for two punks who are always trying to stir things up and trash a mans reputation. The attack on Kerry was shameful. These worms are in need of a bit of discipline. Any volunteers?

I'd be more than happy to woodshed these two scumbags. But when you meet up with marionettes you have to look up. Follow the strings. Try to see who's standing in the dark, working them. Those are the men I'd really like to get my hands on.

I agree with everything you said. I would also love to have a chance to "work" on Kiley and Sampley, who are two bit whores, that are simply working for the guy with the most cash, and do not have a single moral fiber in their beings. They are mere schills. Completely bankrupt souls, willing to create falsehoods and lies about decent men, to further a political objective. it does not get much lower than that. These fools are committing treason in my opinion, and quite possibly deserve the death penalty. And many call me liberal minded! At least I used to be, before the democratic party was taken over by fools and charlatans.

As for the cowardice of Disgusting Don, where do I start? Not only does he do everything in his power to avoid serving his country, but then he goes on national television, and says he would have been proud to serve. It simply does not get any more disingenuous than that. He is a thieving, lying, crime boss. He is vermin. He is a very low life form, manifesting itself in a human body. The fact that he is leading in the polls means only two things. Either the American people have become so intolerant, that the racist hatred this moron spouts really resonates with them, or he is buying the pollsters, which is a strong possibility. Either way, the result is ugly and sad.

As far as sheer cowardice goes, I always say, it is best for the American people to avoid electing a leader who has not served on the front lines. Only someone who has, knows the true horror of war. Immense cowards like Dickless Cheney, Tiny George II, Wolfowitz the warmonger, and Disgusting Donald do everything in their power to avoid serving their country, and have no concept of what that experience is like, and do not hesitate to put our boys into harms way. The proposal I have, is that if a future president wants to declare war on a country, then he or she will be required to sacrifice one of their kids to serve in that war. Are you serious enough about this war, to lose one of your children over? If not, do not declare war. Save the treasury trillions, and save thousands of American lives, and hundreds of thousands of lives in the country you are about to invade.

Lastly, how did Iraq and Afghanistan work out? How did the US adventures in "democracy building" in Libya, Algeria, and Egypt work out? Is is possible for American politicians to learn anything from the past?

"Lastly, how did Iraq and Afghanistan work out? How did the US adventures in "democracy building" in Libya, Algeria, and Egypt work out? Is is possible for American politicians to learn anything from the past?"

Do you really believe these were attempts at "Democracy Building"?

That was the line of crap given to the U>S. public, but not the truth.

These wars were and are being fought for corporate profits.

Contractors now supply services and supplies that the military took care of on their own in the past.

​Contractors like Halliburton have made billions on Afghanistan and Iraq and will continue to make billions as long as the U.S. is there.

The longer the conflicts drag on, the more they make.

That is why endless wars on "terrorism" are so good for the corporations.

These wars of Bush and Cheney are the first the U.S. has fought on credit. Yes paid for with loans the U.S. people will be paying off for a very long time to come.

The corporate banks are making a fortune as well.

Again, these are corporate wars with Americans and others dying for corporate profit, not democracy.

The U/S/ is not a democracy itself, it is a republic.

So, why push democracy on others?

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.