SURVEY: Should Coffee Houses and Fast Food Restaurants be allowed to Charge an Overstay Fee?

[Cypress Hill]

Wow 2 pages in and no digital pikey derailment??

It's a lot more pleasant around here now the "clique" has sloped off to continue their low-brow "banter" elsewhere.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[Brit_Doggie]

Absolutely 1 word comes to mind BUMS stop off point for comfort facilities etc.

[Credo]

It's not just that they take up a lot of seating and leave some of us with no place to sit, but they also take up the best seats.

I know of places in other countries that have a 30 minute seating rule, which seems about right. If I am meeting someone then I do take the courtesy of ordering something while I wait and then ordering food when they get there.

I wonder what would happen if a group of people went into a good restaurant and sat down at a prime table and started doing homework or business but didn't order any food?

Even in restaurants, when they are busy, they have methods of encouraging you to leave, things like clearing the table, asking if you are through, and bringing the bill. In some western countries, they turn up the volume on the music, which works, but here everyone seems oblivious to noise.

[NoshowJones]

Yes, an overstay fee should be allowed within reason, it is not fair on the owner or other customers, when

people sit at a table long after they have finished their meal.

[NoshowJones]

This is why such establishments have only standing tables and no chairs in the UK.

Do they? Maybe I've been away for too long. If that is true, the 'establishments' must be losing money, for obvious reasons.

[NoshowJones]

Strictly No!

Why not just ask them to leave.

And I can't see how a coffee shop makes 1.000 Baht profit with a table in an hour.

I can, but not being a coffee drinker, I would ask "how many people can sit at one table in Starbucks"?

How long does a person take to drink a cup of coffee on the way to the office.

As I understand it, there is a huge profit margin in a cup of coffee.

[NoshowJones]

Yes they could. I noticed there is a similar debate going on in other countries where cafes and fast food joints are offering free wifi on the premises. Apparently patrons are buying a 3 dollar coffees just to log on and sit in comfort at cost to the business.

3$ for a cup of coffee???? Then there's the tip????

I wonder if Canary Sun is an American.

[VINCENT2012]

i voted no .......because........i learn my profession in a french professional catering school and i work in hotel and restaurant business since 45 years already.

coffee shop, bar and terace are meeting and talking places , all famous writers, painters where meeting there for hours having conversation..at the end the owner make money the same there is no reason to overcharge....as usual if some people dont consum anything and there is place needed, the waiter or the owner will tell them to live or to consum again because he need the place for his clients.and has we did until now...there is no problem at all.

money ..money...always money ! what the hell let people breath for a while!

[stoli]

I have seen buffet restaurants in Pattaya that only let you dine for 1 hour and 15 minutes. (I would imagine this would pertain to the Al Bundy's of the world.) I have seen buffet restaurants threaten to charge you per pound for the food left uneaten. This is clearly stated on signs in the restaurant. Each restaurant should be able to make it own rules, and you always have the option to go elsewhere. Owning a restaurant is rarely a profitable venture for anyone. They have to be sensitive to what costs them money, or fail.

[NoshowJones]

When I sit for long periods of time at a coffee shop, I keep ordering. I see it as rental of the seat/table. They are running a business after all.

Such fees are common in Japan. I think the translation is a "seat charge." Usually it's in bars.

It's not a public park, it's a business. I am often bewildered that people think they can use the facilities so freely. It seems ridiculously selfish to me.

It's not easy for management to ask someone to leave. It certainly risks conflict. There is nothing Thai or Asian about the desire to avoid a conflict. Westerns who believe they can so easily confront people either get off from telling others what to do, or really lack social skills.

For management to confront a customer, It makes other customers feel uncomfortable as well, especially if the freeloader customer begins in argument. Posting the rules makes it clear and easy, and would put the burden back on the customer to pay up for the seat they occupying.

I good rule might be "leave 30 minutes after making your purchase", meaning that you can make a new purchase and reset the clock.

That's OK for a cup of coffee, but what about a meal? I would finish it in 30 mins (provided the chicken did not come 30 mins after the French Fries).

We are talking about eating establishments as well as coffee shops aren't we?

Edited July 20, 2015 by possum1931

[NoshowJones]

Wow 2 pages in and no digital pikey derailment??

It's a lot more pleasant around here now the "clique" has sloped off to continue their low-brow "banter" elsewhere.

You are still here. Sorry couldn't resist that.

[Crossy]

If it's purely Wifi users then there are plenty of free/low cost hotspot server applications which can link Wifi use to product purchases, buy a coffee get 30 mins.

Unfortunately that doesn't work with the kids doing homework / having language tutoring etc. etc.

I admit to having the occasional business meeting in Starbucks, mainly as it's a neutral location free from the office eyes. But we don't often go over an hour and there's invariably a couple of coffees and a bun consumed.

[arend]

In the US most people do not go to a coffee house for coffee only. It is a place to hang out, meet people, have discussions, meetings etc. It is like a pub for non-alcohol beverages. A coffee house with people in it, hanging out, socializing, working and enjoying themselves is a magnet for drawing in more customers. As such, it is a community resource. This idea of a coffee house based on a fast food model, get them in and out pronto is a businessman's wet dream who has no idea or respect for the community function of this type of business. Of course, a coffee shop owner has no responsibility or obligation to provide this but I think he/she has missed the traditional role of the the coffee house and the opportunities it provides. Often I will go to a coffee house not for the coffee but for the community atmosphere. But, I know that's not a tradition here in LOS...but one that some of us farangs miss...

[NiwPix]

As a coffeeshop / Bakery / Restaurant owner here in thailand myself, I of course have an opinion on this matter.

First of all, I voted that the owner should be allowed to charge an overstay fee. Its his business, so it should be his decision if it is wise to do so or not.

I don't and do not have any intention of charging for "overstay"....as long as it doesn't get out of hand. It must be really bad at other places around the world to have that discussion, because honestly, it never even crossed my mind.

I do sometimes have the teachers here and correct student papers or business people talking business or kids doing homework...however its always been in moderation and the one time the teachers noticed the place filling up, they packed their things and left. It basically comes down to the customer having some common sense.

I dont agree about approaching a guest and "forcing" them to buy something else or leave. This will just cause a negative vibe that you wouldn't want to create in the first place. That customer may talk bad about your place to other people....and "the other people" only hear that persons version of the story, so as a business owner, you're "doomed".

A problem that I find worse than the table hoggers, are parents that let their kids do what they want in the restaurant with no courtesy to the surrounding guests or the owners furniture etc. Good luck approaching the parent about the misbehaving kid. But thats a whole nother story.

[timmyp]

I good rule might be "leave 30 minutes after making your purchase", meaning that you can make a new purchase and reset the clock.

That's OK for a cup of coffee, but what about a meal? I would finish it in 30 mins (provided the chicken did not come 30 mins after the French Fries).

We are talking about eating establishments as well as coffee shops aren't we?

I was not intending to start a debate as to the best method. Obviously there should be something that addresses the size of the purchase. Or maybe you should just purchase a small drink at the restaurant to reset the clock on your seat-occupancy time. But that's just a brainstorming idea, the main point is to have a seat time linked to a purchase.

In the U.S., many fast food places have a sign stating that you have have eat & leave in a certain period of time. That has always seemed appropriate to me, as do the spirit of the seat-charges in Japan.

Notice I said "the spirit of the seat-charges." The seat-charge was made to ensure that people didn't occupy a seat at the bar for too long without making a purchase. I am not one of the people that nursed my drinks. I always made lots of purchases, so it seemed unfair that I had to pay the seat charge. I certainly understand the bar's need to make sure they are earning on people occupying the seats, so it would have been nice to have the seat-charge linked to a purchase.

[wabothai]

Any body in the right mind knows the rules.

A friendly sign may do the job for the people who do not know the rules.

Charge the hell out of people who don't care, they have been warned.

[wabothai]

Timeclock in the form of a check. First hour free, after that a charge.

people get used to that quickly.

Restaurant or coffeeshop owners have to pay for every square foot you occupy.

It is unfortunate the world has come to this.

[timmyp]

Wow 2 pages in and no digital pikey derailment??

It's a lot more pleasant around here now the "clique" has sloped off to continue their low-brow "banter" elsewhere.

Instead of the digital pikey derailment, there are opinions from overweight corporate elitists who are incapable of writing their own address in Thai?

I think many digital "pikeys" are have no problem making appropriate purchases when occupying a seat in coffee house or restaurant.

[NoshowJones]

I good rule might be "leave 30 minutes after making your purchase", meaning that you can make a new purchase and reset the clock.

That's OK for a cup of coffee, but what about a meal? I would finish it in 30 mins (provided the chicken did not come 30 mins after the French Fries).

We are talking about eating establishments as well as coffee shops aren't we?

I was not intending to start a debate as to the best method. Obviously there should be something that addresses the size of the purchase. Or maybe you should just purchase a small drink at the restaurant to reset the clock on your seat-occupancy time. But that's just a brainstorming idea, the main point is to have a seat time linked to a purchase.

In the U.S., many fast food places have a sign stating that you have have eat & leave in a certain period of time. That has always seemed appropriate to me, as do the spirit of the seat-charges in Japan.

Notice I said "the spirit of the seat-charges." The seat-charge was made to ensure that people didn't occupy a seat at the bar for too long without making a purchase. I am not one of the people that nursed my drinks. I always made lots of purchases, so it seemed unfair that I had to pay the seat charge. I certainly understand the bar's need to make sure they are earning on people occupying the seats, so it would have been nice to have the seat-charge linked to a purchase.

Good post Timmy, there is seat charges in the UK in the likes of McDonalds. they always ask you "Eat in or take out", if you say "eat in", an extra charge

gets put on your bill, and I have to say I do not agree with it.

[Travelman868]

I voted 'yes', but actually, I think they should just kick them out. Setting up shop in a coffee house or anywhere else, is just plain wrong.

Every few months I have to make an inconvenient trip into the heart of BKK for a routine medical appointment. I usually stop at the nearby McDonald's and get a quick bite to eat before going and once in a while I go back after for a cup of coffee. On numerous occasions I have been unable to find a place to sit because of freeloaders, many of whom are sitting there when I arrive and still their well over 2 hours later when I am finished.

If you want to have a business meeting, then do it in an office. If you want to

tutor students, then do it in a classroom. If you want to have a coffee and a snack, that is what these places are for.

It is difficult to chuck customers out. Most of the problem is caused by students. A group of 6 arrive they buy 3 coffee's and sit all day. Solution turn the Wi fi off.

[bheard]

As an owner this can be a big problem as already alluded to - students doing homework a good example.

Maybe an extra bit of kit in a shop would be that the whole shop floor be a slow moving belt. You enter the shop, get your order, and 30 minutes later you get tipped over the edge. Problem solved . . . The table and chairs are glued to the belt, but you're not.

[kingdratsab]

Strictly No!

Why not just ask them to leave.

And I can't see how a coffee shop makes 1.000 Baht profit with a table in an hour.

250baht for four people...15 mins to drink...x 4 = 1000 baht per hr

[cookee68]

yes with out a doubt

[FritsSikkink]

yes

[NeverSure]

Good post Timmy, there is seat charges in the UK in the likes of McDonalds. they always ask you "Eat in or take out", if you say "eat in", an extra charge

gets put on your bill, and I have to say I do not agree with it.

Then vote with your feet - don't go there. If enough people agree with you things would change.

"There are only two kinds of property in this world. Your property, and not your property." If everyone would just remember that we wouldn't need a discussion.

Cheers.

[NoshowJones]

Good post Timmy, there is seat charges in the UK in the likes of McDonalds. they always ask you "Eat in or take out", if you say "eat in", an extra charge

gets put on your bill, and I have to say I do not agree with it.

Then vote with your feet - don't go there. If enough people agree with you things would change.

"There are only two kinds of property in this world. Your property, and not your property." If everyone would just remember that we wouldn't need a discussion.

Cheers.

Back in Scotland, in the few times I have been in McDonalds, I just told them I was taking away, then took a seat.

I was never pulled up.

[JDGRUEN]

If the restaurants and coffee houses that are negatively affected ... then I suggest that they restructure- and set themselves up as offering WiFi services for a fee ... Just rent WiFi Time... for a fee with a discount if food and beverage is bought. Restaurants and Coffee Houses doing this could easily control access to WiFi users - payers / subscribers by the unique MAC Address in each computing device. It is not difficult to administer. Just use a web browser on the Router Setup. If one is not a paid up subscriber then the issued password / PIN number does not work - thus no WiFi signal to latch onto.

If you are a person who lives in a small village or a condo and neighbors are latching onto your WiFi signal because the password / pin got out ... then this is also your answer. SID = BanFarang... Password = None .. but still cannot be used unless their computer devices are on the setup MAC address list...

[robblok]

Wow 2 pages in and no digital pikey derailment??

It's a lot more pleasant around here now the "clique" has sloped off to continue their low-brow "banter" elsewhere.

It certainly is a lot more pleasant here, though some true criticism of digital nomads hogging seats would be ok.

Anyone who hogs seats and does not keep paying for food or drinks is wrong.

Of course this depends on the size of the establishment and how full it is is. When its totally full people should keep ordering and such if its empty it does not really matter as the the owner is not loosing money.

For me as I don't visit McD and others I seldom have a problem but as a business owner I can understand why a profit needs to be made and those damaging sales should not be there.

[jobsworth]

and an especially big kick to the ngo's who sit for hours spying on white people.