Army denies outside influence behind May 22 coup

[Baerboxer]

What a load of typical claptrap most of these comments are.

To anyone with any sense who watched the whole thing unfold, it is pretty clear what happened :

1) After the amnesty bill, protestors took to the streets in huge numbers demanding political reform.

2) Pheu-Thai refused any compromise.

3) Pheu-Thai tried to run an election during emergency law in order to use that mandate as a reason to continue as they were.

4) They scored about 30% of the vote even though >90% of polling stations were open. That route clearly did not work.

5) To try and get rid of the protestors, UDD terrorists were put on the streets to murder innocent people with M79 grenade attacks.

6) Despite the large number of attacks, the corrupt police did not arrest a single one. In fact, they were seen aiding the terrorists for safe passage.

7) Things were getting so bad, the Army had to start manning check points and do the job of the police. That's when Prayuth announced the Army were taking control of security.

8) Pheu-Thai point blank refused to be involved in any reform unless their own cabinet had the ultimate yes/no decision for each one.

9) The attacks continued and there was no obvious way out. There was a clear danger of the country slipping towards civil war.

10) Prayuth got everyone together and asked Pheu-Thai is they would back down from the current position. They refused and so he announced the coup.

This is the reality : I watched it all closely from start to finish - including social media which taught me what a disgrace the Thai press really is. The leaders in that industry are truly bought.

Suthep surely wanted the coup because there was no other way reforms would ever happen and people would stop getting murdered. It doesn't mean Prayuth was colluding with him. I am 100% certain that Prayuth tried everything he could to avoid it. He has given up a comfortable retirement for his country and will need to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because of it.

Of course I realise that most red-shirts here are not interested in the truth. They just want the field of corruption open so they might get rich one day without having to earn it. It's this complete lack of ethics which means Thailand is doomed to stay EXACTLY as it is for many years to come.

2) The elected government dropped the amnesty bill when it was voted down.

3) The government attempted to secure a new mandate from the Thai people. Opponents illegally blocked polling stations.

5) Don't remember reading any proof of this.

6) Seen by whom?

7) Things got bad because the army refused the elected government's request to assist the police in maintaining law and order. Unlike when Abhisit's unelected government made a similar request.

8) Again you confuse Pheu Thai with the lawfully elected government whose cabinet have the RIGHT and DUTY to make yes/no decisions.

9) The army could/should have supported the lawful government and helped to arrest the insurrectionists.

10) It seems then that you are saying the army did not suggest that the insurrectionists should back down and obey the law. Did they really suggest that the lawful government should back down? Over what? Their resounding election victory?

No I'm not a red shirt or a yellow shirt. I'm not even Thai, just an outsider who believes that a democratically elected government should be obeyed by all. No exceptions but especially police and armed services.

Point 6.

4 men were searched and found to have guns, grenades. Police let them go as they said they were only for defense and had a good attitude.

Lady caught driving a car from which gunmen had fired shots at protesters. The gunmen escaped but driver caught, No prosecution or any comment from police.

Gunman riding passenger on motorbike caught after firing at protesters. Turns out to be off duty policeman. No prosecution or any comment from police.

Grenade throwers caught on camera. No arrests or on-going investigation.

CAPO, despite having a very large budget and high profile, and headed by two supposedly experienced law professionals, failed to catch and successfully prosecute one single attacker, They also fail to prevent the almost nightly attacks although they could predict them,

The police, as previously simply do not do their duty. At best they disappear and take no actions.

As your're not a red or yellow shirt supporter, but a democracy loving foreigner, I wonder why you seem to accept it as o k , legal, and democratic for a non elected criminal to actually own the government, pay them a salary. appoint and fire ministers and dictate what they can and can't do and how they should vote?

[Down the rabbit hole]

"What a load of typical claptrap most of these comments are.

To anyone with any sense who watched the whole thing unfold, it is pretty clear what happened :

1) After the amnesty bill, protestors took to the streets in huge numbers demanding political reform.

2) Pheu-Thai refused any compromise.

3) Pheu-Thai tried to run an election during emergency law in order to use that mandate as a reason to continue as they were.

4) They scored about 30% of the vote even though >90% of polling stations were open. That route clearly did not work.

5) To try and get rid of the protestors, UDD terrorists were put on the streets to murder innocent people with M79 grenade attacks.

6) Despite the large number of attacks, the corrupt police did not arrest a single one. In fact, they were seen aiding the terrorists for safe passage.

7) Things were getting so bad, the Army had to start manning check points and do the job of the police. That's when Prayuth announced the Army were taking control of security.

8) Pheu-Thai point blank refused to be involved in any reform unless their own cabinet had the ultimate yes/no decision for each one.

9) The attacks continued and there was no obvious way out. There was a clear danger of the country slipping towards civil war.

10) Prayuth got everyone together and asked Pheu-Thai is they would back down from the current position. They refused and so he announced the coup.

This is the reality : I watched it all closely from start to finish - including social media which taught me what a disgrace the Thai press really is. The leaders in that industry are truly bought.

Suthep surely wanted the coup because there was no other way reforms would ever happen and people would stop getting murdered. It doesn't mean Prayuth was colluding with him. I am 100% certain that Prayuth tried everything he could to avoid it. He has given up a comfortable retirement for his country and will need to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because of it.

Of course I realise that most red-shirts here are not interested in the truth. They just want the field of corruption open so they might get rich one day without having to earn it. It's this complete lack of ethics which means Thailand is doomed to stay EXACTLY as it is for many years to come."

==========================================================

Probably most people don't know how their cars work yet don't mind driving. Similarly. most people don't have any clue how their minds work yet are quite happy to stand up and spout all kinds of nonsense and end up looking foolish. The above post reflects just that.

"This is the reality :" No, it's your interpretation of the things you saw. Since you did not see everything, its London to a brick that your mind inventively filled the gaps with speculations distorted by your own prejudices.

"I watched it all closely from start to finish" From your armchair or a barstool maybe. You listened to what other people interpreted as fact, which you reinterprated prior to pontificating to anyone else who would listen. Social media - aren't you a little old to facebook and twitter? Don't you know about 'social media'? Don't you know why Thais really love it and why many Thais are addicted to it? No? You should do, and you ought to feel embarrassed that you take it seriously.

And the rest of the above nonsense is party line BS, which you heard someone else say and which it pleased you to believe.

You should seriously consider getting a life or laying off the booze, it's really not helping you.

"What a load of typical claptrap most of these comments are." So far as I can see, this is the only thing you said which is anywhere near being reasonable Other people have different opinions tto you, and that they might actually be better informed.

Another rabid Thaksin-hater with a chip on his shoulder. You might usefully consider whose opinion you are simply and mindlessly regurgitating and stop listening to them, but then I'm sure you're more than comnfortable in the belief that the world is conforming to your point of view. Pattaya is it?

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about Israel is anti-semitic. Regardless whether the comment is true or not.

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about homosexuals is homophobic. Regardless whether the comment is true or not.

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about immigrants is racist. Regardless of whether the comment is true or not.

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about the previous government are rabid Thaksin haters. Regardless of whether the comment is true or not.

Seems fashionable now for some to insult the messenger regardless of the message if they happen not to like it.

Think you so? Here's another perspective. If a messenger carries an idiotic and ridiculous message, knowing what it says and being prepared to speak for its truth and claim it as the results of his own 'careful observation', then how smart can the messenger be?

And then - oh dear, it's foot-in-the-mouth time... This seems like a good example of parapraxis. it would be prefectly reasonable to infer from what you wrote, that at some time you have been called 'anti-semitic' 'homophobic' and 'racist' as well. Interesting.

The likelihood of Pattaya being about right just rose again.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[candide]

In some way, it could be considered that only the army has been involved: like if generals and ex-generals made the decision

[Baerboxer]

What a load of typical claptrap most of these comments are.

To anyone with any sense who watched the whole thing unfold, it is pretty clear what happened :

1) After the amnesty bill, protestors took to the streets in huge numbers demanding political reform.

2) Pheu-Thai refused any compromise.

3) Pheu-Thai tried to run an election during emergency law in order to use that mandate as a reason to continue as they were.

4) They scored about 30% of the vote even though >90% of polling stations were open. That route clearly did not work.

5) To try and get rid of the protestors, UDD terrorists were put on the streets to murder innocent people with M79 grenade attacks.

6) Despite the large number of attacks, the corrupt police did not arrest a single one. In fact, they were seen aiding the terrorists for safe passage.

7) Things were getting so bad, the Army had to start manning check points and do the job of the police. That's when Prayuth announced the Army were taking control of security.

8) Pheu-Thai point blank refused to be involved in any reform unless their own cabinet had the ultimate yes/no decision for each one.

9) The attacks continued and there was no obvious way out. There was a clear danger of the country slipping towards civil war.

10) Prayuth got everyone together and asked Pheu-Thai is they would back down from the current position. They refused and so he announced the coup.

This is the reality : I watched it all closely from start to finish - including social media which taught me what a disgrace the Thai press really is. The leaders in that industry are truly bought.

Suthep surely wanted the coup because there was no other way reforms would ever happen and people would stop getting murdered. It doesn't mean Prayuth was colluding with him. I am 100% certain that Prayuth tried everything he could to avoid it. He has given up a comfortable retirement for his country and will need to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because of it.

Of course I realise that most red-shirts here are not interested in the truth. They just want the field of corruption open so they might get rich one day without having to earn it. It's this complete lack of ethics which means Thailand is doomed to stay EXACTLY as it is for many years to come.

You seem to have missed the bit where Suthep confirmed that he had been working with Prayut since 2010 on planning the coup and subsequently had to go and hide in a temple.

And Suthep wouldn't lie, would he?

Hmmm. Suthep is a corrupt ex-politician who was forced to resign as an MP because of impending corruption charges., He is a gangstar - the palm-oil king.

Apart from the ridiculous Suthep, my opinion is this:

The complexity of the coup on it's own makes it apparent it was carefully planned - apparent that is to anyone smarter than a carrot or a bole-weevil.

When you then look at the build-up, it is clear that the civil service, the judiciary, the army and others were involved in what seems to have been a very large and very organised treason - acceptance of which, after 18 previous treasons, is now firmly embedded in the lamentable Thai culture.

Anyone who agrees with the OP probably also also believes in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

It is remarkably satisfying to note that the conspirators are right now in the process of falling out among themselves - at least according to Pravin. And if I had to choose between his reporting and and the blathering of some barstool-squatting ex-pat, I think I'll go with Pravin - he has a bit more credibility.

So, would you believe anything he says? How do you know when he lying - his lips move.

Normally I'd agree about planning. But given the propensity here for totally ignoring planning and the 'it'll be alright on the night" syndrome I doubt they were that carefully planned. Collusion and awareness I'd agree with. Usual backroom deals and discussions.

Treason - allowing a non elected convicted criminal fugitive to own a political party, own a government, appoint ministers and fire them at will, dictate all policies and key decisions, try to force through an amnesty to wipe away conviction, bail jumping, 15 outstanding court cases and stop any new charges from things that may come to light. That sounds like treason.

Or do you still believe the fairy story that Yingluck was really in charge and made the decisions?

Edited July 21, 2015 by Baerboxer

[Down the rabbit hole]

"Treason - allowing a non elected convicted criminal fugitive to own a political party, own a government, appoint ministers and fire them at will, dictate all policies and key decisions, try to force through an amnesty to wipe away conviction, bail jumping, 15 outstanding court cases and stop any new charges from things that may come to light. That sounds like treason."

Might sound like it to you but it isn't. In any event, claims that he 'owned the government' have never been substantiated - just gossip.

"Or do you still believe the fairy story that Yingluck was really in charge and made the decisions?"

No I don't but it wasn't treason.

What Prayuth and others did was treason, which he has admitted. Were he smarter and less boastful, he might have kept his big mouth shut.

[Baerboxer]

"What a load of typical claptrap most of these comments are.

To anyone with any sense who watched the whole thing unfold, it is pretty clear what happened :

1) After the amnesty bill, protestors took to the streets in huge numbers demanding political reform.

2) Pheu-Thai refused any compromise.

3) Pheu-Thai tried to run an election during emergency law in order to use that mandate as a reason to continue as they were.

4) They scored about 30% of the vote even though >90% of polling stations were open. That route clearly did not work.

5) To try and get rid of the protestors, UDD terrorists were put on the streets to murder innocent people with M79 grenade attacks.

6) Despite the large number of attacks, the corrupt police did not arrest a single one. In fact, they were seen aiding the terrorists for safe passage.

7) Things were getting so bad, the Army had to start manning check points and do the job of the police. That's when Prayuth announced the Army were taking control of security.

8) Pheu-Thai point blank refused to be involved in any reform unless their own cabinet had the ultimate yes/no decision for each one.

9) The attacks continued and there was no obvious way out. There was a clear danger of the country slipping towards civil war.

10) Prayuth got everyone together and asked Pheu-Thai is they would back down from the current position. They refused and so he announced the coup.

This is the reality : I watched it all closely from start to finish - including social media which taught me what a disgrace the Thai press really is. The leaders in that industry are truly bought.

Suthep surely wanted the coup because there was no other way reforms would ever happen and people would stop getting murdered. It doesn't mean Prayuth was colluding with him. I am 100% certain that Prayuth tried everything he could to avoid it. He has given up a comfortable retirement for his country and will need to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because of it.

Of course I realise that most red-shirts here are not interested in the truth. They just want the field of corruption open so they might get rich one day without having to earn it. It's this complete lack of ethics which means Thailand is doomed to stay EXACTLY as it is for many years to come."

==========================================================

Probably most people don't know how their cars work yet don't mind driving. Similarly. most people don't have any clue how their minds work yet are quite happy to stand up and spout all kinds of nonsense and end up looking foolish. The above post reflects just that.

"This is the reality :" No, it's your interpretation of the things you saw. Since you did not see everything, its London to a brick that your mind inventively filled the gaps with speculations distorted by your own prejudices.

"I watched it all closely from start to finish" From your armchair or a barstool maybe. You listened to what other people interpreted as fact, which you reinterprated prior to pontificating to anyone else who would listen. Social media - aren't you a little old to facebook and twitter? Don't you know about 'social media'? Don't you know why Thais really love it and why many Thais are addicted to it? No? You should do, and you ought to feel embarrassed that you take it seriously.

And the rest of the above nonsense is party line BS, which you heard someone else say and which it pleased you to believe.

You should seriously consider getting a life or laying off the booze, it's really not helping you.

"What a load of typical claptrap most of these comments are." So far as I can see, this is the only thing you said which is anywhere near being reasonable Other people have different opinions tto you, and that they might actually be better informed.

Another rabid Thaksin-hater with a chip on his shoulder. You might usefully consider whose opinion you are simply and mindlessly regurgitating and stop listening to them, but then I'm sure you're more than comnfortable in the belief that the world is conforming to your point of view. Pattaya is it?

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about Israel is anti-semitic. Regardless whether the comment is true or not.

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about homosexuals is homophobic. Regardless whether the comment is true or not.

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about immigrants is racist. Regardless of whether the comment is true or not.

Some people claim anyone who makes a negative comment about the previous government are rabid Thaksin haters. Regardless of whether the comment is true or not.

Seems fashionable now for some to insult the messenger regardless of the message if they happen not to like it.

Think you so? Here's another perspective. If a messenger carries and idiotic and ridiculous message, knowing what it says and being prepared to speak for its truth and claim it as the results of his own 'careful observation', then how smart can the messenger be?

And then - oh dear, it's foot-in-the-mouth time... This seems like a good example of parapraxis. it would be prefectly reasonable to infer from what you wrote, that at some time you have been called 'anti-semitic' 'homophobic' and 'racist' as well. Interesting.

The likelihood of Pattaya being about right just rose again.

A great example of sophistry. It would only be perfectly reasonable to make such inferences as you do for those who seek to fit things to their political agenda. There can only be one logic for you - Thaksin is innocent, he said so on CNN. Why, his shit doesn't even smell. And we'll ignore all facts to the opposite and deride any who dare speak against him. How very extreme left or right wing of you.

Your obsession with Pattaya? Why's that - perhaps the bars there are where you conduct most of your in depth discussions on politics, current affairs and social science? Or is that your freudian slip, your parapraxis, where you really want to be? Don't be shy, not our place to judge and no need to feel guilty. Each to their own.

[Baerboxer]

"Treason - allowing a non elected convicted criminal fugitive to own a political party, own a government, appoint ministers and fire them at will, dictate all policies and key decisions, try to force through an amnesty to wipe away conviction, bail jumping, 15 outstanding court cases and stop any new charges from things that may come to light. That sounds like treason."

Might sound like it to you but it isn't. In any event, claims that he 'owned the government' have never been substantiated - just gossip.

"Or do you still believe the fairy story that Yingluck was really in charge and made the decisions?"

No I don't but it wasn't treason.

What Prayuth and others did was treason, which he has admitted. Were he smarter and less boastful, he might have kept his big mouth shut.

Do you deny that a salary was paid by PTP to it's MP's and Ministers?

Do you deny some PTP MP's complained, publicly, that after the coup this salary was stopped? Maybe they should have kept their big gobs shut too.

Now, who do you think paid those salaries?

If Yingluck, or any PM and Ministers, take an oath, and then break that oath, do you consider that treason?

[Down the rabbit hole]

"A great example of sophistry. It would only be perfectly reasonable to make such inferences as you do for those who seek to fit things to their political agenda. There can only be one logic for you - Thaksin is innocent, he said so on CNN. Why, his shit doesn't even smell. And we'll ignore all facts to the opposite and deride any who dare speak against him. How very extreme left or right wing of you.

Can you substantiate what you say? Thaksin was not innocent, I've never said he was. In a country full of dishonest people, he was just as dishonest as everyone else. However, he was probably not guilty of the crime he was convicted for - such is the quality and loyalty of the Thai judiciary.

Your obsession with Pattaya? Why's that - perhaps the bars there are where you conduct most of your in depth discussions on politics, current affairs and social science? Or is that your freudian slip, your parapraxis, where you really want to be? Don't be shy, not our place to judge and no need to feel guilty. Each to their own."

Alas not. You are regrettably wrong. Again.

As for the 'obsession with 'Pattaya', perhaps you should look up the word obsession so you can speak from the perspective of actually knowing something about it. Which would be a step forward.

If someone demonstrates a belief in Judaism and goes to shule every Saturday, one might reasonably conclude they are Jewish.

If someone demonstrates views that are consistent with the Pattaya BPB ignorati, one might reasonably conclude they either live in Pattaya or have been infected with ex-pat fever at some time, perhaps in the process of acquiring one of the local ladies.

It's not a 100% rule, nothing is certain and everything is probabilistic, but it's a reasonable working hypothesis and (in my experience) is more often correct than not. In general, a dog cannot be a cat and will congegate with other dogs and not with cats. That's called a metaphor by the way, before you accuse me of calling you a dog, which I didn't.

Oh, and by the way, I don't live anywhere near Pattaya, never have. My tastes and proclivities are different.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[Down the rabbit hole]

"Do you deny that a salary was paid by PTP to it's MP's and Ministers?"

I don't know. It's possible but I have no evidence either way. And I suspect you don't either.

"Do you deny some PTP MP's complained, publicly, that after the coup this salary was stopped? Maybe they should have kept their big gobs shut too."

I don't know that either. Maybe you're right. Do you have any actual evidence?

"Now, who do you think paid those salaries?"

I have no idea, or even if it is true. Do you have evidence of any kind? It's just that it doesn't seem like it.

"If Yingluck, or any PM and Ministers, take an oath, and then break that oath, do you consider that treason?"

No. Allow me to help you:

treason |ˈtriːz(ə)n|
noun
(also high treason) [ mass noun ] the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government: they were convicted of treason.
• the action of betraying someone or something: doubt is the ultimate treason against faith.
• (petty treason) historical the crime of murdering someone to whom the murderer owed allegiance, such as a master or husband.

May I suggest that very often, what a person 'knows' is actually no more than what they believe. If you have evidence. then it is your duty to send it to the police or the NACC. Since it's a reasonable assumption that if you had any evidence you would have done so. one is entitled to conclude you don't have any.

To quote from the famous Danny DeVito, money talks, bullshit walks.

[smutcakes]

"Do you deny that a salary was paid by PTP to it's MP's and Ministers?"

I don't know. It's possible but I have no evidence either way. And I suspect you don't either.

"Do you deny some PTP MP's complained, publicly, that after the coup this salary was stopped? Maybe they should have kept their big gobs shut too."

I don't know that either. Maybe you're right. Do you have any actual evidence?

"Now, who do you think paid those salaries?"

I have no idea, or even if it is true. Do you have evidence of any kind? It's just that it doesn't seem like it.

"If Yingluck, or any PM and Ministers, take an oath, and then break that oath, do you consider that treason?"

No. Allow me to help you:

treason |ˈtriːz(ə)n|

noun

(also high treason) [ mass noun ] the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government: they were convicted of treason.

• the action of betraying someone or something: doubt is the ultimate treason against faith.

• (petty treason) historical the crime of murdering someone to whom the murderer owed allegiance, such as a master or husband.

May I suggest that very often, what a person 'knows' is actually no more than what they believe. If you have evidence. then it is your duty to send it to the police or the NACC. Since it's a reasonable assumption that if you had any evidence you would have done so. one is entitled to conclude you don't have any.

To quote from the famous Danny DeVito, money talks, bullshit walks.

It is amazing in a country where they can track text messages, that in all these years they have never been able to find the smoking gun of TS paying for everything.... makes you wonder.... if you listen to TVF he was paying millions a day..... should be easy, no?

I am sure the PAD, PDRC, the army, the bureaucrats and the clinger ons were doing out of the love of the country, not because they might stand to gain....

[smutcakes]

"Treason - allowing a non elected convicted criminal fugitive to own a political party, own a government, appoint ministers and fire them at will, dictate all policies and key decisions, try to force through an amnesty to wipe away conviction, bail jumping, 15 outstanding court cases and stop any new charges from things that may come to light. That sounds like treason."

Might sound like it to you but it isn't. In any event, claims that he 'owned the government' have never been substantiated - just gossip.

"Or do you still believe the fairy story that Yingluck was really in charge and made the decisions?"

No I don't but it wasn't treason.

What Prayuth and others did was treason, which he has admitted. Were he smarter and less boastful, he might have kept his big mouth shut.

Do you deny that a salary was paid by PTP to it's MP's and Ministers?

Do you deny some PTP MP's complained, publicly, that after the coup this salary was stopped? Maybe they should have kept their big gobs shut too.

Now, who do you think paid those salaries?

If Yingluck, or any PM and Ministers, take an oath, and then break that oath, do you consider that treason?

Maybe better to pay a salary than give them ministries like the army organised Dem coalition did.

Where is the case of the Democrat transport minister who had hundreds of million stashed in his safe going?

[Down the rabbit hole]

"In some way, it could be considered that only the army has been involved: like if generals and ex-generals made the decision "

Indeed. only army and retired army officers.

Except for the courts,, the NACC, the civil service. a few monks, more than a few police, uncle Tom Cobley and all.

Oh and by the way. Prayuth lies when he says he launched the 2014 coup to stop the factional violence. He refused to obey the government when they ordered him to disperse the protestors - for which he should be dishonourably discharged (retrospectively since that seems to be the Thai way), do some hard prison time and lose his pension.

The real nature of the beast is that he oversaw the ordering of snipers to fire on unarmed civilians in 2010. For which the Thai perople should rise up and lynch him, and may yet very well do so. In my opinion. the man's an arrogant, uncivilised and uneducated animal. One among many who should be put down if Thailand is ever going to be taken seriously in the international community instead of teetering on the brink of being a failed state..

Edited July 21, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[MZurf]

"A great example of sophistry. It would only be perfectly reasonable to make such inferences as you do for those who seek to fit things to their political agenda. There can only be one logic for you - Thaksin is innocent, he said so on CNN. Why, his shit doesn't even smell. And we'll ignore all facts to the opposite and deride any who dare speak against him. How very extreme left or right wing of you.

Can you substantiate what you say? Thaksin was not innocent, I've never said he was. In a country full of dishonest people, he was just as dishonest as everyone else. However, he was probably not guilty of the crime he was convicted for - such is the quality and loyalty of the Thai judiciary.

Your obsession with Pattaya? Why's that - perhaps the bars there are where you conduct most of your in depth discussions on politics, current affairs and social science? Or is that your freudian slip, your parapraxis, where you really want to be? Don't be shy, not our place to judge and no need to feel guilty. Each to their own."

Alas not. You are regrettably wrong. Again.

As for the 'obsession with 'Pattaya', perhaps you should look up the word obsession so you can speak from the perspective of actually knowing something about it. Which would be a step forward.

If someone demonstrates a belief in Judaism and goes to shule every Saturday, one might reasonably conclude they are Jewish.

If someone demonstrates views that are consistent with the Pattaya BPB ignorati, one might reasonably conclude they either live in Pattaya or have been infected with ex-pat fever at some time, perhaps in the process of acquiring one of the local ladies.

It's not a 100% rule, nothing is certain and everything is probabilistic, but it's a reasonable working hypothesis and (in my experience) is more often correct than not. In general, a dog cannot be a cat and will congegate with other dogs and not with cats. That's called a metaphor by the way, before you accuse me of calling you a dog, which I didn't.

Oh, and by the way, I don't live anywhere near Pattaya, never have. My tastes and proclivities are different.

I agree with most of what you're saying but please stop using Pattaya as a way to slag your "opponents". It makes you come across as a bit of a (s)nob (sorry, that's the best I could come up with on short notice but since I'm a non native English speaker and Pattaya resident I guess I'm excused).

Edited July 21, 2015 by MZurf

[Down the rabbit hole]

"I agree with most of what you're saying but please stop using Pattaya as a way to slag your "opponents". It makes you come across as a bit of a (s)nob (sorry, that's the best I could come up with on short notice but since I'm a non native English speaker and Pattaya resident I guess I'm excused)."

I probably am a bit of a snob and I don't really care because the written word alone does not descrbe the man. It is what it is.

To be fair, I did say my dismal estimation of Pattaya BPB ignorati is not a 100% rule, there are some decent and intelligent people in Pattaya and its surrounds. But Pattaya has a certain unpleasant reputation, and like most reputations, it has been well-earned.

If it helps, when I referred to the Pattaya ignorati, I did specify BPB (Beer and Pussy Brigade), and I did not have any one person in mind - certainly not you, whoever you are.

Thanks for reading.

[somo]

"THE ARMY staged the coup on May 22 last year on its own and was not influenced by any particular group of people"

An absolute an unequivocal lie.

The country was destabilised and spiralling into economic ruin as shown by all economic indicators. Tourist numbers were plummeting and the lowest level Thailand had seen in decades and this was all exacerbated by govt supporting terrorists killing over 25 protestors and injuring 600 more while acting freely, openly and with impunity with not a single arrest by the govt.

This coup was heavily influenced by a particular group. The red shirts. Proven again and again to be the root cause of so much unnecessary blood shed in a county that yearns for democracy, stability and peace.

You are so funny. Just like a John Cleese rant and just as ridiculous.

Keep up the good work

[heybruce]

"THE ARMY staged the coup on May 22 last year on its own and was not influenced by any particular group of people"

An absolute an unequivocal lie.

The country was destabilised and spiralling into economic ruin as shown by all economic indicators. Tourist numbers were plummeting and the lowest level Thailand had seen in decades and this was all exacerbated by govt supporting terrorists killing over 25 protestors and injuring 600 more while acting freely, openly and with impunity with not a single arrest by the govt.

This coup was heavily influenced by a particular group. The red shirts. Proven again and again to be the root cause of so much unnecessary blood shed in a county that yearns for democracy, stability and peace.

You are so funny. Just like a John Cleese rant and just as ridiculous.

Keep up the good work

A John Cleese rant, specifically a John Cleese playing Basil Faulty rant, is a good comparison.

I like his statement "govt supporting terrorists", which he will undoubtedly claim is a fact, but he won't provide any evidence to support his imagined 'fact'.

Edited July 21, 2015 by heybruce

[heybruce]

What a load of typical claptrap most of these comments are.

To anyone with any sense who watched the whole thing unfold, it is pretty clear what happened :

1) After the amnesty bill, protestors took to the streets in huge numbers demanding political reform.

2) Pheu-Thai refused any compromise.

3) Pheu-Thai tried to run an election during emergency law in order to use that mandate as a reason to continue as they were.

4) They scored about 30% of the vote even though >90% of polling stations were open. That route clearly did not work.

5) To try and get rid of the protestors, UDD terrorists were put on the streets to murder innocent people with M79 grenade attacks.

6) Despite the large number of attacks, the corrupt police did not arrest a single one. In fact, they were seen aiding the terrorists for safe passage.

7) Things were getting so bad, the Army had to start manning check points and do the job of the police. That's when Prayuth announced the Army were taking control of security.

8) Pheu-Thai point blank refused to be involved in any reform unless their own cabinet had the ultimate yes/no decision for each one.

9) The attacks continued and there was no obvious way out. There was a clear danger of the country slipping towards civil war.

10) Prayuth got everyone together and asked Pheu-Thai is they would back down from the current position. They refused and so he announced the coup.

This is the reality : I watched it all closely from start to finish - including social media which taught me what a disgrace the Thai press really is. The leaders in that industry are truly bought.

Suthep surely wanted the coup because there was no other way reforms would ever happen and people would stop getting murdered. It doesn't mean Prayuth was colluding with him. I am 100% certain that Prayuth tried everything he could to avoid it. He has given up a comfortable retirement for his country and will need to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because of it.

Of course I realise that most red-shirts here are not interested in the truth. They just want the field of corruption open so they might get rich one day without having to earn it. It's this complete lack of ethics which means Thailand is doomed to stay EXACTLY as it is for many years to come.

2) The elected government dropped the amnesty bill when it was voted down.

3) The government attempted to secure a new mandate from the Thai people. Opponents illegally blocked polling stations.

5) Don't remember reading any proof of this.

6) Seen by whom?

7) Things got bad because the army refused the elected government's request to assist the police in maintaining law and order. Unlike when Abhisit's unelected government made a similar request.

8) Again you confuse Pheu Thai with the lawfully elected government whose cabinet have the RIGHT and DUTY to make yes/no decisions.

9) The army could/should have supported the lawful government and helped to arrest the insurrectionists.

10) It seems then that you are saying the army did not suggest that the insurrectionists should back down and obey the law. Did they really suggest that the lawful government should back down? Over what? Their resounding election victory?

No I'm not a red shirt or a yellow shirt. I'm not even Thai, just an outsider who believes that a democratically elected government should be obeyed by all. No exceptions but especially police and armed services.

Nice reply. I'd like to add, in regards to statement 2, that Suthep didn't ask for compromise, he demanded that the elected government hand over power to an unnamed committee for unspecified reforms--in other words, total abdication to his illegal mob.

Also, as is typical whenever amnesty is mentioned, some posters feel that the amnesty bill could not be properly killed until there was a military coup, the constitution (written for the military after the last coup) suspended, and a new constitution written. Presumably the new constitution will ban amnesties for politicians, but not generals.

[baboon]

"THE ARMY staged the coup on May 22 last year on its own and was not influenced by any particular group of people"

An absolute an unequivocal lie.

The country was destabilised and spiralling into economic ruin as shown by all economic indicators. Tourist numbers were plummeting and the lowest level Thailand had seen in decades and this was all exacerbated by govt supporting terrorists killing over 25 protestors and injuring 600 more while acting freely, openly and with impunity with not a single arrest by the govt.

This coup was heavily influenced by a particular group. The red shirts. Proven again and again to be the root cause of so much unnecessary blood shed in a county that yearns for democracy, stability and peace.

You are so funny. Just like a John Cleese rant and just as ridiculous.

Keep up the good work

John Cleese, or specifically John Cleese playing Basil Faulty, that is a good comparison.

I like his statement "govt supporting terrorists", which he will undoubtedly claim is a fact, but he won't provide any evidence to support his imagined 'fact'.

Bit slow today aren't you, Bruce? What he will do is create a link between his "govt supporting terrorists" flapdoodle and tourist arrivals, then stick that graph up yet again, just like whatshisname with that photo from the Cambodia Daily...

[sammygood]

me thinks, thailand should not have an army anymore and than i guarantee that no armed men will take over power

maybe the ones in brown, but they were already in charge of about anything

[Down the rabbit hole]

A John Cleese rant, specifically a John Cleese playing Basil Faulty rant, is a good comparison.

I like his statement "govt supporting terrorists", which he will undoubtedly claim is a fact, but he won't provide any evidence to support his imagined 'fact'.

Indeed. this bunch of fascist-admirers is good at the sound-bite thing but not so good at the actual evidence thing. Too much listening to bar girls probably, in which case I have this suggestion: don't bother trying to make them like you. they don't need to like you to get it on with you, all you needed to do was walk in.

[lewy67]

We're the Thai Army and one thing, maybe the only thing, we are very good at is staging coups.

We don't need and help or encouragement from any outside source.

There's something else they are pretty good at along with coups and that's mowing down their own citizens in great numbers and with extreme prejudice. So not just a one trick pony at all.

[nidieunimaitre]

We're the Thai Army and one thing, maybe the only thing, we are very good at is staging coups.

We don't need and help or encouragement from any outside source.

There's something else they are pretty good at along with coups and that's mowing down their own citizens in great numbers and with extreme prejudice. So not just a one trick pony at all.

That is what all armies throughout history have been best at.

[4jeffrey]

We're the Thai Army and one thing, maybe the only thing, we are very good at is staging coups.

We don't need and help or encouragement from any outside source.

There's something else they are pretty good at along with coups and that's mowing down their own citizens in great numbers and with extreme prejudice. So not just a one trick pony at all.

That is what all armies throughout history have been best at.

Those are two things that he appears to be not good at; knowledge of any army and history.

[nidieunimaitre]

We're the Thai Army and one thing, maybe the only thing, we are very good at is staging coups.

We don't need and help or encouragement from any outside source.

There's something else they are pretty good at along with coups and that's mowing down their own citizens in great numbers and with extreme prejudice. So not just a one trick pony at all.

That is what all armies throughout history have been best at.

Those are two things that he appears to be not good at; knowledge of any army and history.

It would help if you disclosed who you mean with "he".