Draft charter faces rejection if Shinawatras banned: Pheu Thai member

[halloween]

I have never been against the strongest possible penalties for corruption or any other infraction.

Why i am skeptical is because I have absolutely zero respect and belief that the law will be applied evenly and fairly across the board by the judiciary or the 'independent' agencies.

When you grow up a bit you will realise that life isn't fair, and guilt doesn't rely on who your friends are.

Worked out those water charts yet?

No i have not even bothered. There is someone on the thread who has apparently worked on the projects since 1982 who says you are talking complete turd as i already knew.

You have trust in the judiciary in Thailand?

That's really rich. You complain because you can't work it out, and when I explain down to moron level how to read it, you cant be bothered because someone else has a different view. Don't look at the evidence, it might prove you wrong. Did you 'run away"?

Why do I have to trust the Thai judiciary? There are enough Thaksin sycophants around to point out unfair decisions, even when they are not.

[pisico]

The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy

If this was enforced not only to a handpicked elite, how many "officials" would be left to run the circus?

Very few, and very few of the current NCPO, NRC, NLA or CDC would probably be their, particularly the police and military ones for unusual wealth.

At least Prayuts brother would be banned for 5 years for submitting a false assets report.

For me, the general stipulations is a good thing, but again as with everything else, they continue to tippy toe and ignore the ultimate problem which is the ineffective and questionably ethical and morally suspect court system. You can have all the laws in the world, but they are pointless unless they are applied properly and evenly across the board.

Until the NCPO tackle the police and judiciary any reform is completely pointless. Given they have already said they won't do this, any new laws are pointless.

Good to see that you at least agree that banning corrupt politicians for life is a good thing. No surprise that there is resistance from the PTP side. They know they got the most corrupt politicians (at least by virtue of being in power the longest) and know they would suffer the most. But again it is not political. Nobody forced them to steal and be corrupt.

A lifetime ban is the minimum, assets should also be recovered. I agree that this should be wider.. including army and police.

I have never been against the strongest possible penalties for corruption or any other infraction.

Why i am skeptical is because I have absolutely zero respect and belief that the law will be applied evenly and fairly across the board by the judiciary or the 'independent' agencies.

Before a law is applied it must be first ENFORCED.

When it comes to that, the chief of police on down the line of ranks, is always a political appointed person beholden to the powers that be of the moment.

Democrats won the last election more than 20 years ago.

Why? This is a primarily an agricultural country. In spite what many (specially in TV) would like to believe that Thailand is a developed country.

There are many more farmers and laborers who identify with a party that represents them and their interests instead of a party composed of the than the "holier than thou" pseudo-Democrats . Democrat party is the puppet of the Bangkok Ammart and those wannabe elite from the South.

Why then can it be expected fairness in the enforcement of laws and their application if for one specific party to attain power in government a coup d'etat is absolutely necessary?

The reason that Suthep and his PDRC blocked electoral polling places to make sure that the election had to be "scrapped" because it did not represent the whole will of the people.

I know that the rabid cheerleaders who want to see the heads of the PT party members rolling will be only so happy to see them banned.

Many names from different parties should also be included to that list.

That, will only reinforce the millions of supporters to be more vocal against newly appointed and handpicked member of parliament who had a military past or links to the BKK elite.

That is what happened during the last Reds Bangkok protest when the people from the farming heart of Thailand came to rebuke the military appointed PM and their MP lackeys and call for elections. Were they ever elected by the votes of the people? I know, the lame argument of "votes were bought" will be raised. Has it ever been any different in Thai elections?

A look at the make up of the current NLA will suffice to understand the dynamics of upcoming events.

[halloween]

I noticed one of the Democrat MP's was crying about MP immunity being removed, but funnily enough Ginjag fails to criticise that!

Nobody expects ELECTED politicians to like increased penalties on their corruption. That's why we need a military government to impose them, because an elected government won't.

You might remember who was the selected party to investigate corruption allegations against the PTP government, the most corrupt person ever imposed on the Thai people by the party list system, Chalerm.

[halloween]

Before a law is applied it must be first ENFORCED.

When it comes to that, the chief of police on down the line of ranks, is always a political appointed person beholden to the powers that be of the moment.

Democrats won the last election more than 20 years ago.

Why? This is a primarily an agricultural country. In spite what many (specially in TV) would like to believe that Thailand is a developed country.

There are many more farmers and laborers who identify with a party that represents them and their interests instead of a party composed of the than the "holier than thou" pseudo-Democrats . Democrat party is the puppet of the Bangkok Ammart and those wannabe elite from the South.

Why then can it be expected fairness in the enforcement of laws and their application if for one specific party to attain power in government a coup d'etat is absolutely necessary?

The reason that Suthep and his PDRC blocked electoral polling places to make sure that the election had to be "scrapped" because it did not represent the whole will of the people.

I know that the rabid cheerleaders who want to see the heads of the PT party members rolling will be only so happy to see them banned.

Many names from different parties should also be included to that list.

That, will only reinforce the millions of supporters to be more vocal against newly appointed and handpicked member of parliament who had a military past or links to the BKK elite.

That is what happened during the last Reds Bangkok protest when the people from the farming heart of Thailand came to rebuke the military appointed PM and their MP lackeys and call for elections. Were they ever elected by the votes of the people? I know, the lame argument of "votes were bought" will be raised. Has it ever been any different in Thai elections?

A look at the make up of the current NLA will suffice to understand the dynamics of upcoming events.

"Bangkok Ammart and those wannabe elite from the South."

Wannabe elite? would they be people who want to see themselves and their country advanced instead of seeing the country's resources stolen and squandered by criminals? Seems to be quite a few of them.

Edited July 21, 2015 by halloween

[ikke]

Before a law is applied it must be first ENFORCED.

When it comes to that, the chief of police on down the line of ranks, is always a political appointed person beholden to the powers that be of the moment.

Democrats won the last election more than 20 years ago.

Why? This is a primarily an agricultural country. In spite what many (specially in TV) would like to believe that Thailand is a developed country.

There are many more farmers and laborers who identify with a party that represents them and their interests instead of a party composed of the than the "holier than thou" pseudo-Democrats . Democrat party is the puppet of the Bangkok Ammart and those wannabe elite from the South.

Why then can it be expected fairness in the enforcement of laws and their application if for one specific party to attain power in government a coup d'etat is absolutely necessary?

The reason that Suthep and his PDRC blocked electoral polling places to make sure that the election had to be "scrapped" because it did not represent the whole will of the people.

I know that the rabid cheerleaders who want to see the heads of the PT party members rolling will be only so happy to see them banned.

Many names from different parties should also be included to that list.

That, will only reinforce the millions of supporters to be more vocal against newly appointed and handpicked member of parliament who had a military past or links to the BKK elite.

That is what happened during the last Reds Bangkok protest when the people from the farming heart of Thailand came to rebuke the military appointed PM and their MP lackeys and call for elections. Were they ever elected by the votes of the people? I know, the lame argument of "votes were bought" will be raised. Has it ever been any different in Thai elections?

A look at the make up of the current NLA will suffice to understand the dynamics of upcoming events.

"Bangkok Ammart and those wannabe elite from the South."

Wannabe elite? would they be people who want to see themselves and their country advanced instead of seeing the country's resources stolen and squandered by criminals? Seems to be quite a few of them.

"would they be people who want to see themselves and their country advanced "

Maybe, but as for now the country is moving very fast backwards, so maybe a democratic elected government could help them achieve their goal.

Thinking the country is advancing now is only for people with the brain of a pumpkin.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ikke

[halloween]

"would they be people who want to see themselves and their country advanced "

Maybe, but as for now the country is moving very fast backwards, so maybe a democratic elected government could help them achieve their goal.

Thinking the country is advancing now is only for people with the brain of a pumpkin.

While you are entitled to your opinion, it is mine that this government has at least slowed a savage decline, not least by preventing the borrowing of trillions of part to prop up the rice scam.

OTOH I've never had much time for the opinion of someone who holds his dick with one finger, and probably pisses on it.

[PS2]

Those with the surname Shinawatra. Those associated or friends of those with the surname Shinawatra. Nice to see that the main priority of the new government is to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra's political influence. One sided reform is still the agenda. As the song goes'We're on a road to nowhere'.

Read the new rule carefully. It applies to all corrupt politicians. Nobody is named outright. It's just one party isn't happy their chosen ones might be caught up in this.

These types of laws are drastically needed here. You should go to jail if you shoot and kill someone. As it stands now, nothing happens to the MP. Not even an investigation.

"You should go to jail if you shoot and kill someone."

Only red shirts gets away with that.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/585412-death-sentences-for-former-democrat-mp-and-local-politician-from-loei/

[valerian]

Before a law is applied it must be first ENFORCED.

When it comes to that, the chief of police on down the line of ranks, is always a political appointed person beholden to the powers that be of the moment.

Democrats won the last election more than 20 years ago.

Why? This is a primarily an agricultural country. In spite what many (specially in TV) would like to believe that Thailand is a developed country.

There are many more farmers and laborers who identify with a party that represents them and their interests instead of a party composed of the than the "holier than thou" pseudo-Democrats . Democrat party is the puppet of the Bangkok Ammart and those wannabe elite from the South.

Why then can it be expected fairness in the enforcement of laws and their application if for one specific party to attain power in government a coup d'etat is absolutely necessary?

The reason that Suthep and his PDRC blocked electoral polling places to make sure that the election had to be "scrapped" because it did not represent the whole will of the people.

I know that the rabid cheerleaders who want to see the heads of the PT party members rolling will be only so happy to see them banned.

Many names from different parties should also be included to that list.

That, will only reinforce the millions of supporters to be more vocal against newly appointed and handpicked member of parliament who had a military past or links to the BKK elite.

That is what happened during the last Reds Bangkok protest when the people from the farming heart of Thailand came to rebuke the military appointed PM and their MP lackeys and call for elections. Were they ever elected by the votes of the people? I know, the lame argument of "votes were bought" will be raised. Has it ever been any different in Thai elections?

A look at the make up of the current NLA will suffice to understand the dynamics of upcoming events.

"Bangkok Ammart and those wannabe elite from the South."

Wannabe elite? would they be people who want to see themselves and their country advanced instead of seeing the country's resources stolen and squandered by criminals? Seems to be quite a few of them.

"would they be people who want to see themselves and their country advanced "

Maybe, but as for now the country is moving very fast backwards, so maybe a democratic elected government could help them achieve their goal.

Thinking the country is advancing now is only for people with the brain of a pumpkin.

Hmmm. Our Poo jai baan needs a good fortune teller. Would you be available?

[spidermike007]

Are the Pheu Thai really still active? And can they not see that their heroes have been completely discredited? When was the last time Toxic Thaksin has done anything to benefit his country? He spent his wealth and his influence attempting to tear his country apart, for years. Most of the people I know in Issan have lost faith in him, and most do not consider his sister to be a credible force. So, who are these people anyway?

The real problem I would imagine, is that there is no alternative for many. The democrats are feckless, ineffective, and without principals. This was demonstrated in a vivid way, when Absent Abhisit was in office. He was beyond ineffective, as a leader. Some of us had high hopes for him, and he seemed to demonstrate that like Barack Obama, he could not wrestle control or influence over the various divisions of government, and therefore was ineffective as a politician. So, what is their alternative? The various administrations have spent decades ignoring Issan, and the poor of this country. Thaksin paid some attention to them. He was clever. But, is it still possible he is still relevant?

[Toscano]

I don't think banning Shinawatras or any of the offences mentioned will be directly relevant to the passing or failure of the draft constitution . My guess is that it will be voted against on principle , because it infringes openess and freedom of democratic elections . For the foreseeable future the military should remain as government and not make any constitutional waves that might disrupt the present peace .

[Baerboxer]

Those with the surname Shinawatra. Those associated or friends of those with the surname Shinawatra. Nice to see that the main priority of the new government is to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra's political influence. One sided reform is still the agenda. As the song goes'We're on a road to nowhere'.

Yes, because the Shins are totally innocent and above all laws and never ever have done any wrong in their lives.

Not suggesting others are better or worse, but why on earth do some posters repeatedly trot this drivel out as if the Shins are some sort of poor persecuted honest family? If they didn't break the law and get caught, they couldn't be punished. But, like all the hiso elite rich families they think the laws don't apply to them, they can do as they please, and the county's wealth is their's to plunder.

[Emster23]

"The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system."

This would probably eliminate everyone from the local village headman on up IF it were applied across the board (which is not the Thai way, of course....).

Bottom line is the elite clearly don't trust the people to decide through elections who should govern them. If the people want someone who violated these areas, so be it. Maybe a bit of education and free speech to point out these shortcomings (without being sued for defamation) might lead to more enlightened voting.

[Equalizer]

And would it not also be fitting to add to this list.

• Leaders in power through coups d'état
• Unelected MP's
• MP's sabotaging the constitution without a public vote.
• Leaders costing the country 300 million dollars revenue per day through anti democratic movements.
• Leaders driving away investment through anti democratic policy.

[mango66]

Those with the surname Shinawatra. Those associated or friends of those with the surname Shinawatra. Nice to see that the main priority of the new government is to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra's political influence. One sided reform is still the agenda. As the song goes'We're on a road to nowhere'.

this part is not against any who is honest !

But it seems the PT party and the Shinas are on the other side of the law !

They like ti live in africa, send them there !!

Places for Idi Amin and Gadaffi still vacant !!

[Stradavarius37]

Those with the surname Shinawatra. Those associated or friends of those with the surname Shinawatra. Nice to see that the main priority of the new government is to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra's political influence. One sided reform is still the agenda. As the song goes'We're on a road to nowhere'.

It IS nice isn't it?

[than]

"It is very clear that those who come under this category are from the Pheu Thai side"

​It sure corruptions and malfeasances are diseases that poisoning the PTP

[mango66]

Those with the surname Shinawatra. Those associated or friends of those with the surname Shinawatra. Nice to see that the main priority of the new government is to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra's political influence. One sided reform is still the agenda. As the song goes'We're on a road to nowhere'.

Yes, because the Shins are totally innocent and above all laws and never ever have done any wrong in their lives.

Not suggesting others are better or worse, but why on earth do some posters repeatedly trot this drivel out as if the Shins are some sort of poor persecuted honest family? If they didn't break the law and get caught, they couldn't be punished. But, like all the hiso elite rich families they think the laws don't apply to them, they can do as they please, and the county's wealth is their's to plunder.

i like countries which such figures just catch and execute instantly, - discussion over;

[Baerboxer]

"The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system."

This would probably eliminate everyone from the local village headman on up IF it were applied across the board (which is not the Thai way, of course....).

Bottom line is the elite clearly don't trust the people to decide through elections who should govern them. If the people want someone who violated these areas, so be it. Maybe a bit of education and free speech to point out these shortcomings (without being sued for defamation) might lead to more enlightened voting.

So in your country elected politicians can violate any laws they like with impunity. And which country is that?

Many politicians here also think that is and should remain the case.

[SABloke]

''The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system.''

I'm sure Worachai Hema meant well, but he kind of threw his mates under the bus with this statement: "It is very clear that those who come under this category are from the Pheu Thai side.''

555

Edited July 21, 2015 by SABloke

[halloween]

Neat act to eliminated the Shins since no one else from the yellow side have been convicted. How appropriate that Thaksin and Yingluck fall into that category. Expect the junta apologists will say that only they are corrupted.

Let's hear some names, then. And then their alleged crimes.

[seajae]

Neat act to eliminated the Shins since no one else from the yellow side have been convicted. How appropriate that Thaksin and Yingluck fall into that category. Expect the junta apologists will say that only they are corrupted.

this applies across the board, are you saying that the ptp are all corrupt so should not be included as you support them. If a politician does anything criminal they should be banned for life, doesnt matter who they are but all the red/thaksin lovers are up in arms as they support the corruption their heroes do and dont care what happens to the country as long as they are paid off to ignore the truth. Talk about a pathetic outlook, and if you bother to look this will include politicians from both sides but then that doesnt support your whinge.

[halloween]

"The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system."

This would probably eliminate everyone from the local village headman on up IF it were applied across the board (which is not the Thai way, of course....).

Bottom line is the elite clearly don't trust the people to decide through elections who should govern them. If the people want someone who violated these areas, so be it. Maybe a bit of education and free speech to point out these shortcomings (without being sued for defamation) might lead to more enlightened voting.

"and the right of the majority to rule is no more inherent than the right of the minority to rule; and unless the majority represents sane, righteous, unselfish public sentiment, it has no inherent right." ~William Allen White

Besides elections, some of the tenets of democracy include an educated and informed populace, and a free critical press. As these are sadly lacking, we have seen criminals elected because they are offering the most attractive electoral bribe, which usually turn out to be lies anyway, and MPs accepting payment to vote to order. That is not a democracy's butt.

[Eric Loh]

Neat act to eliminated the Shins since no one else from the yellow side have been convicted. How appropriate that Thaksin and Yingluck fall into that category. Expect the junta apologists will say that only they are corrupted.

Let's hear some names, then. And then their alleged crimes.

Let's start with the 7 cases with the NACC since 2010 that involved Dem Party. Lots procrastination while others (mainly PT) have been fast tracked, convicted and banned from politics . And please don't ask me what 7 cases, Mr. Know-all.

[halloween]

Neat act to eliminated the Shins since no one else from the yellow side have been convicted. How appropriate that Thaksin and Yingluck fall into that category. Expect the junta apologists will say that only they are corrupted.

Let's hear some names, then. And then their alleged crimes.

Let's start with the 7 cases with the NACC since 2010 that involved Dem Party. Lots procrastination while others (mainly PT) have been fast tracked, convicted and banned from politics . And please don't ask me what 7 cases, Mr. Know-all.

My psychic powers are weak today. Names? Allegations?

Did you actually say 7 since 2010? Out of a total of?

Edited July 21, 2015 by halloween

[FritsSikkink]

If this is truly the last, best, final charter, then give everyone a fresh-start (amnesty for all but violent crimes).

But we all know that won't happen.

Can't see this charter passing a referendum, either through a boycott or a no vote. Can't see the regime risking a referendum as is, so look for an event to postpone this charter vote.

why a fresh start, they shouldn't be stealing from the poor in the first place

[bamnutsak]

If this is truly the last, best, final charter, then give everyone a fresh-start (amnesty for all but violent crimes).

But we all know that won't happen.

Can't see this charter passing a referendum, either through a boycott or a no vote. Can't see the regime risking a referendum as is, so look for an event to postpone this charter vote.

why a fresh start, they shouldn't be stealing from the poor in the first place

Reconciliation? Assuming the regime is sincere in this being a goal.

If this charter is truly ideal then only "good people" will be in positions of power. And we all know that it is only the "bad people" who "steal from the poor".

[WitawatWatawit]

''The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system.''

I'm sure Worachai Hema meant well, but he kind of threw his mates under the bus with this statement: "It is very clear that those who come under this category are from the Pheu Thai side.''

555

Brilliant, ain't it?

(I was just about to make the same point )

[scorecard]

Neat act to eliminated the Shins since no one else from the yellow side have been convicted. How appropriate that Thaksin and Yingluck fall into that category. Expect the junta apologists will say that only they are corrupted.

Let's hear some names, then. And then their alleged crimes.

Let's start with the 7 cases with the NACC since 2010 that involved Dem Party. Lots procrastination while others (mainly PT) have been fast tracked, convicted and banned from politics . And please don't ask me what 7 cases, Mr. Know-all.

So the only response you have is 'But what about the dems...'

[JAG]

How to win a fight.. Make sure you have nobody who can fight you

Not the point, are you condoning the lousy wrong doers ?? if you have Thailand at heart you would want to be shut of all that have been mentioned AND OTHERS.

PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again, THEY shot themselves in the foot now they are screaming--better they get a real job than rely on perks as politicians

I'm not even going to take you to task, instead I will ask you why you say "PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again," If you and your hero are so confident how come how come they are hiding and not going for an election? I have Thailand in my heart and illegal coups and self-appointed governments make me puke. If you had Thailand (and more importantly, the Thai people) in your heart, I feel you would think illegal coups are not the way forward?

-

I noticed one of the Democrat MP's was crying about MP immunity being removed, but funnily enough Ginjag fails to criticise that!

It's probably not on his agenda. After all agendas are pretty central to most of his bellowing!

[valerian]

Neat act to eliminated the Shins since no one else from the yellow side have been convicted. How appropriate that Thaksin and Yingluck fall into that category. Expect the junta apologists will say that only they are corrupted.

Let's hear some names, then. And then their alleged crimes.

Let's start with the 7 cases with the NACC since 2010 that involved Dem Party. Lots procrastination while others (mainly PT) have been fast tracked, convicted and banned from politics . And please don't ask me what 7 cases, Mr. Know-all.

Why start from 2010? Why not 1987 when Thaksin started Shin and AIS? The Thai satellite project had been started in 1983 and bidding for concessions commenced in 1987. Thats when Thaksin, without any prior experience, decided to make money in telecom. He got his concessions from his junta friends (military coup 1991) and later awarded one of the generals a cabinet position in his "democratically" elected goverment in 2004.

Of course there are many Democrat examples of procrastination over the years. But the PT camps completely own this field. They are nowhere near being comparable. Not even when we throw politically motivated cases in the pitch, as you seem to like.

What's more interesting is the vocality against corruption. Here the positions are completely reversed. As they have been all the way since 1991.

Why do you think that is?