Income statements from the Embassy no longer accepted as POI

[lostoday]

This topic is not false.

Months ago a Dutch guy living in Nongkhai region talked about in a Dutch forum. He said exactly what's mentioned here.

He sent that statement to me, I have a print of it. It's true.

When I was at Immi 80 days ago they asked me whether I have an extension based on 800,000 in the bank OR income. No, for me it's 800,000 in the bank. Why you ask?

They told me about this new thing but for people who get an extension based on 800,000 in the bank there is no problem.

In that forum people told about their new extension elsewhere in Thailand. Well, Nongkhai is the only Immi post that wants this thing.

Some people here go to Bangkok Immi cause of the sometimes weird demands of the Immi here. In Bangkok the Immi says, I quote, ' Yes, well, that's Nongkhai...' So we grin and bear it.

We also bear that in this Immi the embassy's income statement MUST be stamped at Chaeng Wattana to certify the signature of the ambassy clerk..... Nongkhai seems to be the only Immi that want the bankletter from the same day as the application for extension. We bear it.

But this new thing causes problems to many who have income just over the 65.000 p.m. cause the euro is going up and down.

If someone tells me how to post here the PDF file (I don't know.......) I will do it.

Erik

Select the Choose File button and select your file. Then select Attach this file button and it should upload. At least I think it will upload PDF's.

[smotherb]

That's harsh!

No problem for those using the 800K method as that's no change.

But for those on income method, they are going rogue as there really is no official policy requiring full IMPORT of all of those funds.

I believe we went through this with what Hatyai immigration told me, that the B65k had to be deposited monthly. However, as I said, after I argued the point, they dropped the had to be deposited monthly part. However, I got the impression that is what they thought. And, I am not trying to scare-monger as you accused last time, I am concerned, especially since another immigration office has now made those same statements.

[Prajak]

Attached a pdf filePension Verification Form (1) (1).pdf

[jesimps]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

Get rid of those cheating with multiple border runs and claiming to be tourists............ Check!

Get rid of those lying and cheating about getting an education for an ED visa..........Check!

Getting rid of those who submit false income letters to obtain retirement visas............Why Not?

So many expats are constantly criticizing Thailand about all of the corruption here.

I guess the corruption is O.K. when it is the expats lying and cheating to get what they want??

Get over yourselves.

If you can not afford to be here without cheating, you should leave.

Thailand does not really care if we are here or not....we are not god's gift to Thailand!

A good many expats are nothing but a pain in the butt to Thailand.

Keep sniveling and make it even worse!

What a load of patronising nonsense. Bet you were the kid in the class who reported all your mates to the teacher. Name one expat who cheats on his income declaration. You should be supporting your fellow expats not slagging them. I find you pretty despicable.

[Psychic]

I'm not sure if this helps, but from Thai immigration, for instance section 5.3 dealing with verification of income from spouse it requires only a letter from your embassy.

I'm not sure why all immigration offices wouldn't accept this if shown it in writing.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

[Jessi]

Why cant all Immigration offices go by the same rules/laws etc?

This is becoming a pain in the ass for a lot of foreigners, the I.O.

just seem to make their own rules to show us they have control.

I'm a guest in this country so I'm must adhere to the laws of this country

I don't have a problem with that but they keep moving the goal post.

I can see a lot more foreigners moving out because of this & other

B/S that is going on here.

[Jessi]

I am English and my local Immigration office is in Nakhon Sawan. This morning I renewed my retirement extension a month early using the monthly income system using the POI and a letter from the UK embassy.

It took about 30 or 40 minutes start to finish and I went out happily with no problems.

Perhaps it was due to the fact that all the front office staff were ladies or maybe the fact that I bribed them. I bought 10 packs of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gave 2 pack to each of the ladies but I got a genuine smile from all of them or perhaps because at 71 I am still a hansum man I don't know but it worked for me.

Another falang supporting corruption.

Today Chocolates.......Tomorrow ????

[chiang mai]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

Get rid of those cheating with multiple border runs and claiming to be tourists............ Check!

Get rid of those lying and cheating about getting an education for an ED visa..........Check!

Getting rid of those who submit false income letters to obtain retirement visas............Why Not?

So many expats are constantly criticizing Thailand about all of the corruption here.

I guess the corruption is O.K. when it is the expats lying and cheating to get what they want??

Get over yourselves.

If you can not afford to be here without cheating, you should leave.

Thailand does not really care if we are here or not....we are not god's gift to Thailand!

A good many expats are nothing but a pain in the butt to Thailand.

Keep sniveling and make it even worse!

What a load of patronising nonsense. Bet you were the kid in the class who reported all your mates to the teacher. Name one expat who cheats on his income declaration. You should be supporting your fellow expats not slagging them. I find you pretty despicable.

The subject of income verification letters has been discussed here often and if you search for the threads you'll see that several people admit to being less than squeaky clean. I don't know about anyone else but I receive spammed TVF mails at least twice a year offering me bogus bank statements and the like, for visa renewal purposes. And it should be fairly obvious that given the ability to self certify, there will be an element of applicants who do cheat, goodness, look at what happened with Ed visa's.

[willyumiii]

I read quite a few comments in this thread along the lines of"

"This it it, I am fed up, I am leaving Thailand!"

More or less stating that " I will go home and take my ball with me..they will be sorry!"

It seems to me that expats are not really valued here in Thailand.

In fact, I feel we are just tolerated.

The workload we create at the immigration office is probably considered a pain, and with all the whiners and grumblers, even more so c.ould it be that they think it is a good idea that we go?

Foreign tourists spend a lot of money in Thailand living like two week millionaires.

Long term foreign residents like me, live on a reasonable budget and don't really dump that much money into the Thai economy,

and it does cost the government a bit to deal with us as well.

I do not think that they think we are doing them any great favors by living here.

Think about it...

[Loptr]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

Get rid of those cheating with multiple border runs and claiming to be tourists............ Check!

Get rid of those lying and cheating about getting an education for an ED visa..........Check!

Getting rid of those who submit false income letters to obtain retirement visas............Why Not?

So many expats are constantly criticizing Thailand about all of the corruption here.

I guess the corruption is O.K. when it is the expats lying and cheating to get what they want??

Get over yourselves.

If you can not afford to be here without cheating, you should leave.

Thailand does not really care if we are here or not....we are not god's gift to Thailand!

A good many expats are nothing but a pain in the butt to Thailand.

Keep sniveling and make it even worse!

What a load of patronising nonsense. Bet you were the kid in the class who reported all your mates to the teacher. Name one expat who cheats on his income declaration. You should be supporting your fellow expats not slagging them. I find you pretty despicable.

Hmm, based on your response I guess you are a little short on monthly income to continue to qualify for the retirement extension...

[mpyre]

Bye Bye Thailand. This is the straw that breaks my back. I will do my retirement extension next month for the 5th and last time.

I will move to a country that actually likes expats. This one obviously does not. What a bunch of idiots. Killing the geese that lay the golden eggs.

Bye TS .

A couple of questions f I may......

1. Why bother with the extension ?

2. Which country has more to offer and what is the cost ?

1. Because I've been here 5 years and need time to get rid of accumulated stuff. I'm in no rush to leave. Just won't put up with the new income rules. Dealing with Thai banks is dicey enough now.

2. I need to do the research. I know that Mexico has very favorable climate for retired expats, but don't know the costs.

I may just go back to America. I really love the Bay Area.

Mexico is a great choice, and cost of living similar to Thailand. You can get a 5 year permanent resident visa from day one, and even apply for a passport after 5 years (must pass language and history tests, of course) and process is not too expensive...need to show about $100,000 in assets to qualify for this visa, but you can also get 180 day tourist visas upon entry, and can do them back to back for as long as you want.

[chiang mai]

I read quite a few comments in this thread along the lines of"

"This it it, I am fed up, I am leaving Thailand!"

More or less stating that " I will go home and take my ball with me..they will be sorry!"

It seems to me that expats are not really valued here in Thailand.

In fact, I feel we are just tolerated.

The workload we create at the immigration office is probably considered a pain, and with all the whiners and grumblers, even more so c.ould it be that they think it is a good idea that we go?

Foreign tourists spend a lot of money in Thailand living like two week millionaires.

Long term foreign residents like me, live on a reasonable budget and don't really dump that much money into the Thai economy,

and it does cost the government a bit to deal with us as well.

I do not think that they think we are doing them any great favors by living here.

Think about it...

I agree entirely. It used to be that a foreigner who spent between 75k and 100k a month was valued and viewed as an extension of high roller tourist industry. That sort of spend today is far more common amongst local people today hence the economic value and worth of many existing expat is diminishing. And as will' says, factor in the aggravation element from expats who think the country owes them a right to live here and changed government attitudes become more understandable.

[lostoday]

Attached a pdf filePension Verification Form (1) (1).pdf

You don't use the form and have never used the form and a guy emailed you a copy of it who you say used the form?

Is there anyone who has ever used this form? The one with no official logo or any other official marks on it?

[chiang mai]

Just an observation, but the English and punctuation on that form appears surprisingly good.

[happy Joe]

I just get a new one-year extension retiree visa in Chiang Mai with a letter from my consulate specifying the amount of my pension.

Imigration office actually asked my bank book. I guess they want to verify that there has been 800,000 b transferred in the year of my country to Thailand which seems logical.

In my case I make only three transfers each year and I did not have any remarks. So I think that the obligation to 12 transfers of at least 65000 b is an unfounded extrapolation.

[ubonjoe]

Several posts have been removed for assorted reasons.

People have posted that the post is just rumor mongering or such. The problem appears to be that people read the topic title and don't bother to read the OP and the first few posts that states if Is Nong Khai only. Read the OP instead of going to the end the topic and making a post.

[pmarlin]

Just an observation, but the English and punctuation on that form appears surprisingly good.

Also every immigration form used in Thailand I have filled out was in Thai and English.

[ubonjoe]

Just an observation, but the English and punctuation on that form appears surprisingly good.

Also every immigration form used in Thailand I have filled out was in Thai and English.

It is local form made up by Nong Khai immigration. So no form number or Thai on it.

They have been asking people sign the form for almost a year now.

[pizzachang]

This is new to me! I have presented the US affadavit of income and it's been accepted each time. Several years ago, they asked to see my US bank statements showing that over 65,000 K in pension payments was deposited in my US bank account each month. I was not required to show that the money had been brought into Thailand. It's been that way ever since.

This has been the case for me as well, although this extension, I had a "new" officer(at least I'd never had her doing my application) She took the US Consulate's income affidavit to her superior but then came right back and finished the process. This was in CM in June - never had that happen before this extension. Logically, of course, most of the people my age (from the US) have Social Security pensions - that alone covers the requirement for the marriage extension. We have to spend money to live here and most of us also spend more than the S.S. every year. So investigating "incomes" must have a different purpose. I prefer to keep my money in a US bank but I suppose I could start keeping ATM receipts if necessary. I suspect most of the 'flack' in any of this is directed at "retirement" visa/extensions.

[Tassie Norm]

mark5335

The IO was probably only interested in ensuring that there was , in fact, money being bought into Thailand.

Stat Decs are easily made but those who make them should always be prepared to provide evidence which will support what is claimed.

If one has such evidence it pretty well negates the need for a stat dec doesn't it? In turn it saves a trip to the embassy to obtain same.

[tom21]

If this is correct the IO in Nong Kai is saying by this that you have to spend 65k or 40k (depending if your married) a month. I know I do not and would have to keep sending money back home if I transferred money every month. Also I could not prove I bring 65k a month into the country as I go home twice a year and bring cash with me and when that gets low I use a ATM. If they push this and it spreads to other parts of Thailand there will be a lot of extensions refused

[captspectre]

I have read other posts about that. But others have said they will accept income letters if you can show a bank that shows the money coming into the country.

It is time for some people to make some calls to 1111 to complain since that is not correct according to the police order.

about three years ago I had to have both a letter from my embassy AND a statement from my bank AND a copy of all my pages from my bank book! the last two years all that was required was aletter from my embassy. bottom line take everything! you can always throw away what is not "currently" needed!

[Thaidream]

For those who have their pensions or other income sent direct to their bank account and withdraw by ATM- it is quite easy to prove to Immigration the amount you get each month or at other intervals. On line banking provides the exact date of deposit and shows the exact date and exchange rate when withdrawn from a Thai ATM. This documentation comes direct from the Bank. The Immigration law does not indicate that the money has to be sent to a Thai bank. It states that one has to be able to provide proof of 65,000 baht per month or 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank. The money can come from anywhere. Normally if it is a pension or Social Security/other government payment it is clearly marked in your bank details. The only IO that appear to question source is when there is a source that is different from the norm- such as rental income; stocks and bonds or some other type of income. The statutory declaration does not necessarily ask for the back up- but it is against the law to lie on a statutory declaration that is sworn before a consular office. When I go to Immigration, I always have the back up- letters from my pension provider and copies of the years bank statement showing how much I draw out every month from Thailand. To date- they have never asked for the back-up and therefore I do not provide it. The situation in Nong Khai is not reasonable-the document they force you to sign has no Thai Letterhead- number or any other identifying information. It serves no legal purpose and would never be upheld by the Admin court. If I was presented with the document I may well sign it but the next time I would go in to immigration with all my other documentation including the Stat declaration and make the case that you do meet the regulation requirements. I would have the Police Order with me written in Thai and English and possibly bring along a lawyer.

[khastan]

Correct me if I am wrong but I understood because it was less work for them that immigration much preferred ex pats marred to Thais to to apply for retirement extensions rather than marriage extensions. Surely this latest requirement to those who are unable to meet it for any reason will now see a rise in the number of marriage extension applications which will be much more work for immigration.

[gary94578]

I just got a retirement 1yr at SiRacha with a letter from the US Embassy, no problem.

This need to be followed up so we can know what to expect.

[Jingthing]

I just got a retirement 1yr at SiRacha with a letter from the US Embassy, no problem.

This need to be followed up so we can know what to expect.

Sure.

For now, for most of Thailand, here is what to expect.

Bring your income letter.

Be truthful to your embassy about the income amount.

Present only the income letter.

IF asked questions about the income, be prepared to show some evidence to back up the information in the letter.

For example, if it's social security, have a statement from social security about your benefit amount.

Again, there is no national rule to IMPORT the money claimed in the income letter.

Enforcement oddities are going to vary over time at different offices ... so it's always a moving target to know current details.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Jingthing

[billd766]

I am English and my local Immigration office is in Nakhon Sawan. This morning I renewed my retirement extension a month early using the monthly income system using the POI and a letter from the UK embassy.

It took about 30 or 40 minutes start to finish and I went out happily with no problems.

Perhaps it was due to the fact that all the front office staff were ladies or maybe the fact that I bribed them. I bought 10 packs of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gave 2 pack to each of the ladies but I got a genuine smile from all of them or perhaps because at 71 I am still a hansum man I don't know but it worked for me.

It may equally have something to do with the fact that the British Embassy is only prepared to issue POI letters on the basis of tangible documentary income evidence, and Nakhon Sawan are presumably well aware of this. I have got the impression from this thread that Nakhon Sawan may have a particular problem with such letters which are issued on the basis of sworn affidavits, as is the practice followed by the American and Australian embassies, for example.

In reality the embassy does no checking at all but relies on the honesty and integrity of its citizens that the information given is true and factual.

As if anyone would lie to the embassy.

[billd766]

I am English and my local Immigration office is in Nakhon Sawan. This morning I renewed my retirement extension a month early using the monthly income system using the POI and a letter from the UK embassy.

It took about 30 or 40 minutes start to finish and I went out happily with no problems.

Perhaps it was due to the fact that all the front office staff were ladies or maybe the fact that I bribed them. I bought 10 packs of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gave 2 pack to each of the ladies but I got a genuine smile from all of them or perhaps because at 71 I am still a hansum man I don't know but it worked for me.

Another falang supporting corruption.

Today Chocolates.......Tomorrow ????

Tongue in cheek

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek

The Tongue-in-cheek figure of speech used to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended, and it should not be taken at face value. The facial expression typically indicates that one is joking or making a mental effort.^[1] In the past, it may also have indicated contempt, but that is no longer common.^[2]

^{the free dictionary http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tongue-in-cheek}

Thesaurus

Adj. 1. tongue-in-cheek - cleverly amusing in tone; "a bantering tone"; "facetious remarks"; "tongue-in-cheek advice"

bantering, facetious

humorous, humourous - full of or characterized by humor; "humorous stories"; "humorous cartoons"; "in a humorous vein"

Edited July 24, 2015 by billd766

[fgmr]

Suppose I have just retired and living somewhere in Europe. I have decided to retire in Thailand. Approaching a Thai Embassy I do not believe they would require me to show any details of Thai Bank deposits and withdrawals. Yes they would require evidence of income, but a newly retired person can only provide statements of entitlement. Previous income whilst employed would be irrelevant. Pension providers produce these statements annually. If these statements are acceptable initially why all the fuss about extensions?

[OJAS]

I am English and my local Immigration office is in Nakhon Sawan. This morning I renewed my retirement extension a month early using the monthly income system using the POI and a letter from the UK embassy.

It took about 30 or 40 minutes start to finish and I went out happily with no problems.

Perhaps it was due to the fact that all the front office staff were ladies or maybe the fact that I bribed them. I bought 10 packs of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gave 2 pack to each of the ladies but I got a genuine smile from all of them or perhaps because at 71 I am still a hansum man I don't know but it worked for me.

Another falang supporting corruption.

Today Chocolates.......Tomorrow ????

Tongue in cheek

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek

The Tongue-in-cheek figure of speech used to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended, and it should not be taken at face value. The facial expression typically indicates that one is joking or making a mental effort.^[1] In the past, it may also have indicated contempt, but that is no longer common.^[2]

^{the free dictionary http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tongue-in-cheek}

Thesaurus

Adj. 1. tongue-in-cheek - cleverly amusing in tone; "a bantering tone"; "facetious remarks"; "tongue-in-cheek advice"

bantering, facetious

humorous, humourous - full of or characterized by humor; "humorous stories"; "humorous cartoons"; "in a humorous vein"

In any case, it wasn't as if you had bribed them with the Crown Jewels, was it?

The "holier-than-thou" brigade on here really need to lighten up and not take life so seriously, I think!

Edited July 24, 2015 by OJAS