New alcohol rules and CM bars

[Phrafarang]

Or the bars let you bring your own alchohol and charge corkage then sell you the mixers and ice, just like a lot of Thai bars do

[alant]

very little here on the effect this may have on those employed in said places that sell alcohol who may well be out of work at a stroke if it is rapidly and vigorously enforced. The long term effects are already being felt, bars will be hard to sell, properties hard to rent out and more. Meanwhile can all the 7 elevens manage without alcohol sales?

[Thaidream]

The actual current law was promulgated during the military government of Thanom Kittakachorn- alcohol cannot be sold between 2-5 pm and bars must close at midnight. It was mildly enforced at one time- coffee cups in view when the police came in and after hour clubs everywhere. Then it only was enforced in the large supermarkets or 7-11. Where there is a will there is a way- alcohol will always be found whenever or wherever there is a market.

[Guitar God]

They're using the same "what about the chldren?" Bullsh1t excuse in Amsterdam to close coffeeshops ( the ganja-selling kind).

None allow minors in the establishment, much less sell to them. I don't see any logic in closing adult only businesses just because of their proximity to kindergartens and primary and secondary schools, just because it's cannabis they sell.

Almost every single student in Amsterdam bikes or walks past dozens of liquor stores, tobacco shops, 7-11's and supermarkets that sell beer, wine and liquor, that they are too young to purchase. I see no difference.

Following their logic , then all these stores should also be closed, to prevent a problem that's already legislated and not a problem.

It they want to shut down street vendors sitting outside college dormitories selling lao kho in Hello Kitty bottles, fine but this makes the least sense of anything I've seen in Thailand, and there's a lot of illogical things to pick from here.

[DLock]

Bars and businesses will adapt. New areas and bars will spring up elsewhere, which may not be a bad thing.

Loi Kroh deserves to be shut down. The bars are beyond woeful, sad establishments...with the crappiest pool tables ever.

This could be a blessing in disguise.

DLock are you serious ? "bars and busineses will adapt " So imagine,if you can, you are a bar owner or restaurant and you are tied into a long lease or have paid a lot of money for the freehold and almost overnight you are forced out of business and your staff have to be laid off and the cash flow stops.

Put yourself in their shoes , could you adapt ? start all over again from scratch ? and crappy pool tables taking priority over peoples lives ...amazingly sympathetic post.

I'm not saying the current LK business owners will be the ones to open new bars...

Clearly they don't have the money to invest in decent bars currently.

No sympathy from me if those pathetic, dreary bars are forced to close.

No loss.

[Beetlejuice]

Bars and businesses will adapt. New areas and bars will spring up elsewhere, which may not be a bad thing.

Loi Kroh deserves to be shut down. The bars are beyond woeful, sad establishments...with the crappiest pool tables ever.

This could be a blessing in disguise.

Wanna bet?

The unwritten policy is that the police will not issue licences for new bars in other areas of town. This is why over the years virtually nothing else pertaining to the adults entertainments establishments have opened anywhere else and the Loi Kroh Road has been left to go into decline. If Loi Kroh Road could be described as Chiang Mai`s red light district, that has now become the city`s luke warm district, there will be nothing of the equivalent opening elsewhere.

As regards some posters guesses that all will be put to rights once the bar owners agree to pay more tea money, than they couldn`t be more off the mark. This present government means what they say and say`s what they mean, it will not be business as usual or normal service will resume as soon as possible.

Besides these new selling of alcohol restrictions, the closing down of the western style downtrodden bars has been on the cards for a long time. It`s never been if, but rather when. The clamp downs and closing times restrictions began over 10 years years, so this comes as no surprise,

Where Chiang Mai is concerned is has become clearly apparent that the TAT is concentrating it`s efforts into the Chinese tourist markets and couldn`t give a rat`s behind about the western clientèle.

Sad but true.

[chickenrunCM]

i see the discussion runs now crazy, schools means goverment or private education schools, not language schools, cooking schools, or boxing schools,

and teamoney will not be possible because is a difference between not controll closing time and a location of a bar, somebody has to sign a yearly alcohol licence

and this person has to say how he could sign it within a ban mile. Now I know why Zoe was for sale 4 month ago for 22 Million

[Konini]

If the rule is applied to every school, including language schools, it will shut down most of Nimmanhamin and the rest of the city.

Right now, the law seems to read; banning the sale of alcohol within 300m. of any tertiary ed. facility, that is universities, colleges and technical schools.

I doubt that language schools fit that description. The sky is not falling.

I read something worded slightly differently, in Coconuts (I followed a link to it earlier). The words used were in quotation marks, but as we all know the translation isn't always correct; "no person shall sell alcoholic beverages near the boundary lines of educational institutions or dormitories near educational institutions". and we know it's 300 metres, and it included the sleeping quarters wherever they are - I imagine some would be off-campus, but I don't know. I followed another link this afternoon and I'm certain it was to PBS English but I can't get the full article for some reason. Their wording was pretty much the same, but it used the word authorised or approved or certified or recognised or something similar before educational institutions. I'm so annoyed that I can't find it. I remember thinking as I read it that smaller language schools and massage schools etc would not be included, but as I say it's a translation and we all know what a mix up we can end up with if the translator isn't very good.

I'm sure this won't happen - it can't happen. I mean, closing alcohol sales from every single bar and restaurant and guesthouse and 7/11/Tesco Express stores and mum and dad shops in the whole city from the far west past Nimman to Central Festival (Dara would take the 300 meters pretty much up to Festival) in the east is inconceivable. Seriously, inconceivable. I don't even know about north and south. I hope that there aren't any schools close to Makro or Tesco Lotus or Big C or Rimping or Dukes or Airport Plaza or Kad Farang. I got the impression that those granted exceptions would be the international chain hotels.

The If it is enforced, it can't possibly last more than a day or two before they come to their senses. What will the alcoholics do? I know a few, I don't condone their drinking, but i acknowledge that it's an illness and going cold turkey would be awful. Meanwhile all the shops have got the stock - do you really think that they will just sit on it? Good heavens, there will be a fair dinkum black market.

The concept of it is too silly, it can't possibly be strictly enforced. All of the street stall/temporary carts etc OK. The Thai bars, OK. But they wouldn't be able to keep all of the Farang bars and restaurants closed - not to mention 7/11's and Tesco Express, both of whom must have a bit of influence due to their size.

I read a comment somewhere, don't remember where. To paraphrase; I like to drink, but if you don't want us to drink (and it seems that you don't) just make it illegal and there will be no more problems. Surely the military can't want that, can they?

[gyrosman]

Didn't know being drunk made you stupid but while trying to achieve some sort of knowledge for employment. Thai. universities sound like American High Schools. But, sooner than later some do wise up and go to colleges and on. Oh! Hell, I'm speaking about myself.

[bangmai]

My fraternity consumed 980, 15.5 gallon kegs of beer during the 1981-82 school year. We just couldn't get to 1000. Legal drinking age was 18. No on died.

[Jonathon]

MEthinks they haven't thunk this through properly

That's quite normal for governments everywhere. If they really wanted to screw up they could invite Obama, Juncker or most other western politicans to advise them.

[brommers]

The debate is becoming frivolous and silly as usual. What about the impact on businesses and staff who will loses their jobs and their businesses. It has the potential to do major economic damage and a negative impact on tourism. In one fell swoop "he who must be obeyed" has destroyed their livelihoods of many.

[MaeJoMTB]

According to bar owners in MoonMuang Soi 1/2, they have already received letters telling them to close down before the 22 August.

On of the bars is run by a police woman, she says she can't get round it either.

[MESmith]

Prepare for revo......

[Robert24]

I think people worry way too much. Enforcement is whole different story as well as all the existing businesses that will be exempt from the rule. And many things are not so clear...

[TheAppletons]

I think people worry way too much. Enforcement is whole different story as well as all the existing businesses that will be exempt from the rule. And many things are not so clear...

According to bar owners in MoonMuang Soi 1/2, they have already received letters telling them to close down before the 22 August.

On of the bars is run by a police woman, she says she can't get round it either.

[ColdSingha]

people keep mentioning 7/11 or tescos wont have it but they dont sell alcohol from their gas station branches, on election/buddhist days or outside legal hours so what makes anyone think they will sell within 300m of a school if ordered not to?

[stament]

Be interesting to see what happens, seems a bit draconian, feel sorry for business owners if they are forced to close.

[Konini]

people keep mentioning 7/11 or tescos wont have it but they dont sell alcohol from their gas station branches, on election/buddhist days or outside legal hours so what makes anyone think they will sell within 300m of a school if ordered not to?

CP, who owns both 7/11 and Tesco has enough direct and indirect economic input to Thailand to be in a position to influence decisions which will affect their business. You're correct in that they will stick to the letter of the law on the ban, but I believe that the number of garage retail shops that don't sell alcohol are a very small percentage of the total outlets in the country.

I don't know how many Tesco Express' there are in the country, but there's a 7/11 on every corner, sometimes one either side of the corner. Nor do I know what percentage of their turnover is alcohol, but I would assume it to be significant (and it will have a knock on effect because people will inevitably pick up something else whilst in the shop). We have a massive turnover which generates tax on the goods sold, thousands - if not tens of thousands - of people in employment who go on to further stimulate the economy with their spending power and then there's the income tax which may or may not be due (or paid) by the corporation. It's undeniable the government - any government - is going to listen very closely to CP when they want to speak or suggest changes in policy.

If this ban starts to affect their profits, I think we'll be seeing some very persuasive 'lobbying'.

[Beetlejuice]

people keep mentioning 7/11 or tescos wont have it but they dont sell alcohol from their gas station branches, on election/buddhist days or outside legal hours so what makes anyone think they will sell within 300m of a school if ordered not to?

CP, who owns both 7/11 and Tesco has enough direct and indirect economic input to Thailand to be in a position to influence decisions which will affect their business. You're correct in that they will stick to the letter of the law on the ban, but I believe that the number of garage retail shops that don't sell alcohol are a very small percentage of the total outlets in the country.

I don't know how many Tesco Express' there are in the country, but there's a 7/11 on every corner, sometimes one either side of the corner. Nor do I know what percentage of their turnover is alcohol, but I would assume it to be significant (and it will have a knock on effect because people will inevitably pick up something else whilst in the shop). We have a massive turnover which generates tax on the goods sold, thousands - if not tens of thousands - of people in employment who go on to further stimulate the economy with their spending power and then there's the income tax which may or may not be due (or paid) by the corporation. It's undeniable the government - any government - is going to listen very closely to CP when they want to speak or suggest changes in policy.

If this ban starts to affect their profits, I think we'll be seeing some very persuasive 'lobbying'.

The new alcohol restriction regulations will not pertain to retail outlets such as Tesco Express and 7/11 stores, except for the normal off time sales, which have been in force for a few years now.

The general consensus among those who are wise that make the decisions, that it is the bar type environments of drinking dens and depravity that are luring innocent, naive young people (bless em) into the throngs of debauchery, leading to fornication and hooked on the demon drink, therefore enticing them to moral corruption resulting in citizens of little virtue that is bad for Thailand`s image.

The convenience stores are considered retail outlets for takeaway goods and therefore the customers will take the demon drink elsewhere and have no bad influences on locations where young people congregate with the possibility of succumbing to drink and profligate lifestyles.

And for those who think I am saying this in jest, this is what I have actually been told.

[iainiain101]

Which golf course club houses are within 300m of a school?

I guess Star Dome and Gymkhana will have to be dry from now on.

[heybruce]

people keep mentioning 7/11 or tescos wont have it but they dont sell alcohol from their gas station branches, on election/buddhist days or outside legal hours so what makes anyone think they will sell within 300m of a school if ordered not to?

CP, who owns both 7/11 and Tesco has enough direct and indirect economic input to Thailand to be in a position to influence decisions which will affect their business. You're correct in that they will stick to the letter of the law on the ban, but I believe that the number of garage retail shops that don't sell alcohol are a very small percentage of the total outlets in the country.

I don't know how many Tesco Express' there are in the country, but there's a 7/11 on every corner, sometimes one either side of the corner. Nor do I know what percentage of their turnover is alcohol, but I would assume it to be significant (and it will have a knock on effect because people will inevitably pick up something else whilst in the shop). We have a massive turnover which generates tax on the goods sold, thousands - if not tens of thousands - of people in employment who go on to further stimulate the economy with their spending power and then there's the income tax which may or may not be due (or paid) by the corporation. It's undeniable the government - any government - is going to listen very closely to CP when they want to speak or suggest changes in policy.

If this ban starts to affect their profits, I think we'll be seeing some very persuasive 'lobbying'.

The new alcohol restriction regulations will not pertain to retail outlets such as Tesco Express and 7/11 stores, except for the normal off time sales, which have been in force for a few years now.

The general consensus among those who are wise that make the decisions, that it is the bar type environments of drinking dens and depravity that are luring innocent, naive young people (bless em) into the throngs of debauchery, leading to fornication and hooked on the demon drink, therefore enticing them to moral corruption resulting in citizens of little virtue that is bad for Thailand`s image.

The convenience stores are considered retail outlets for takeaway goods and therefore the customers will take the demon drink elsewhere and have no bad influences on locations where young people congregate with the possibility of succumbing to drink and profligate lifestyles.

And for those who think I am saying this in jest, this is what I have actually been told.

"The new alcohol restriction regulations will not pertain to retail outlets such as Tesco Express and 7/11 stores, except for the normal off time sales, which have been in force for a few years now."

According to the official announcement signed by Prayut, the new rule outlaws alcohol sales by all establishments not established by royal decree. Are 7-11's established by royal decree? It's a serious question, I honestly don't know. I don't know a lot of things about Thai law, I just know enforcement is unpredictable.

"The new rule is an amendment of Sections 4 and 27 of the 2008 Alcohol Control Act. Alcohol sales within 300 meters of higher-education institutions governed by the education law are now officially outlawed.

However, the announcement stated that the new ban will not apply to hotels and other service operators established legally under royal decree." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/842654-pm-prayut-orders-ban-on-alcohol-sales-near-universities-and-vocational-colleges/

[PattayaPhom]

There surely are laws in Western countries regarding business in close proximity of schools as there is about advertising etc. Thailand has plenty of vacant buildings and land in every town that people can enjoy drinks so no need to open establishments so close to schools.

[saminoz]

Bars and businesses will adapt. New areas and bars will spring up elsewhere, which may not be a bad thing.

Loi Kroh deserves to be shut down. The bars are beyond woeful, sad establishments...with the crappiest pool tables ever.

This could be a blessing in disguise.

DLock are you serious ? "bars and busineses will adapt " So imagine,if you can, you are a bar owner or restaurant and you are tied into a long lease or have paid a lot of money for the freehold and almost overnight you are forced out of business and your staff have to be laid off and the cash flow stops.

Put yourself in their shoes , could you adapt ? start all over again from scratch ? and crappy pool tables taking priority over peoples lives ...amazingly sympathetic post.

I'm not saying the current LK business owners will be the ones to open new bars...

Clearly they don't have the money to invest in decent bars currently.

No sympathy from me if those pathetic, dreary bars are forced to close.

No loss.

What a sad, pathetic, cowardly, nasty little man someone would have to be to write something like this..

Show some empathy for people who have actually invested in their adopted country and, through no fault of their own, stand to see a drastic loss of revenue or even closure of their businesses.

If you don't like to looks or decor of the bars on Loi Kroh (there are many, many similar in Bangkok, Chiang Rai, Pattaya, Hua Hin, you name it...., then simply don't frequent them. You seem to hand personal knowledge of them though.

Perhaps you haven't used them but get to see them often when you go for your special LK "massage" every day?

I suspect you are just one miserable,ageing sexpat happy to survive on your fixed income and holier than thou personality.

Disgraceful.

[opalred]

hes trying to do the rite thing

make the kids fitter by walking further to get there drink and drugs

and sober up on the long walk back to school

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There surely are laws in Western countries regarding business in close proximity of schools as there is about advertising etc. Thailand has plenty of vacant buildings and land in every town that people can enjoy drinks so no need to open establishments so close to schools.

You can rationalize all you want, and you're factually correct, but the larger issue here is that apparently a government can dream up an idea to cull decades old businesses basically overnight, on very iffy grounds and for unlikely and unproven gain.

It further colors in the overall perception of Thailand that there is no certainty, no security and if one day the government decides it doesn't like your line of business, then you get to close up shop, with 30 days notice. Or if you're staff, be out on the street in 30 days.

Again it'll likely blow over due to resistance from people who do matter, but should serve as a stark reminder of what the political system in Thailand actually is, and what the business environment in Thailand actually is.

[thai006]

what about people got litle 7 11 inside the building or condo , they sell ahcool

there will be afect about the law too ?

[harrry]

people keep mentioning 7/11 or tescos wont have it but they dont sell alcohol from their gas station branches, on election/buddhist days or outside legal hours so what makes anyone think they will sell within 300m of a school if ordered not to?

CP, who owns both 7/11 and Tesco has enough direct and indirect economic input to Thailand to be in a position to influence decisions which will affect their business. You're correct in that they will stick to the letter of the law on the ban, but I believe that the number of garage retail shops that don't sell alcohol are a very small percentage of the total outlets in the country.

I don't know how many Tesco Express' there are in the country, but there's a 7/11 on every corner, sometimes one either side of the corner. Nor do I know what percentage of their turnover is alcohol, but I would assume it to be significant (and it will have a knock on effect because people will inevitably pick up something else whilst in the shop). We have a massive turnover which generates tax on the goods sold, thousands - if not tens of thousands - of people in employment who go on to further stimulate the economy with their spending power and then there's the income tax which may or may not be due (or paid) by the corporation. It's undeniable the government - any government - is going to listen very closely to CP when they want to speak or suggest changes in policy.

If this ban starts to affect their profits, I think we'll be seeing some very persuasive 'lobbying'.

The new alcohol restriction regulations will not pertain to retail outlets such as Tesco Express and 7/11 stores, except for the normal off time sales, which have been in force for a few years now.

The general consensus among those who are wise that make the decisions, that it is the bar type environments of drinking dens and depravity that are luring innocent, naive young people (bless em) into the throngs of debauchery, leading to fornication and hooked on the demon drink, therefore enticing them to moral corruption resulting in citizens of little virtue that is bad for Thailand`s image.

The convenience stores are considered retail outlets for takeaway goods and therefore the customers will take the demon drink elsewhere and have no bad influences on locations where young people congregate with the possibility of succumbing to drink and profligate lifestyles.

And for those who think I am saying this in jest, this is what I have actually been told.

"The new alcohol restriction regulations will not pertain to retail outlets such as Tesco Express and 7/11 stores, except for the normal off time sales, which have been in force for a few years now."

According to the official announcement signed by Prayut, the new rule outlaws alcohol sales by all establishments not established by royal decree. Are 7-11's established by royal decree? It's a serious question, I honestly don't know. I don't know a lot of things about Thai law, I just know enforcement is unpredictable.

"The new rule is an amendment of Sections 4 and 27 of the 2008 Alcohol Control Act. Alcohol sales within 300 meters of higher-education institutions governed by the education law are now officially outlawed.

However, the announcement stated that the new ban will not apply to hotels and other service operators established legally under royal decree." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/842654-pm-prayut-orders-ban-on-alcohol-sales-near-universities-and-vocational-colleges/

there were comments about 7/11 s in dormatories selling and near universities so I do believe it applies to them.

[arunsakda]

There are some newly built CMU dorms on Sirimankalajarn. 7/11 on site never sold. So ban alcohol sales "near" schools , that would be reasonable. Not some blanket 300 metre ridiculousness. Infinity is packed every night of the week. The government can't change this kind of student drinking culture with poorly thought out rules. Isn't there an Officers' mess in BKK or Army Sports Centre with Golf course near a Uni? Surely they would go dry too. Don't think so.

[piewarmer]

The monk halfway down LK that has been complaining about the bar scene there for years will be doing a little dance now.

uni campuses, tech colleges and higher education facilities are the targets for this strategy from what I read, the mention of cooking schools or junior schools is misleading.

I'm just wondering how many Army brass have a vested interest in the businesses forced to stop selling grog.