Srikcir Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 "Why haven't they been [punished]?" he asked." The INEQUALITY of it all! You overthrow a government, abolish the Thai people's constitution, withhold elections now into 2017, and rule through absolute power. And yet the EU allegedly disrespects the Junta (aka Prayut) government by treating it unfairly. If Prayut can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. There are plenty of Chefs in the military to take his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Their market Their rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 And yes, as a matter of fact I do think Prayuth is a poopy-head, but then he's Thai so he got a natural advantage. Ansd what's wrong with my posts? Answered, then asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLee Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 "Why haven't they been [punished]?" he asked." The INEQUALITY of it all! You overthrow a government, abolish the Thai people's constitution, withhold elections now into 2017, and rule through absolute power. And yet the EU allegedly disrespects the Junta (aka Prayut) government by treating it unfairly. If Prayut can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. There are plenty of Chefs in the military to take his place. Well about Election Collection........ don't bet on it, man...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 i agree. Was thinking the same in the beginning and was the other said a bit paranoid. But after reading more about it in EU news and documentary, its not political, but based on real facts That all the TIP, airline safety and IUU (Illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing) Regulation is just some kind of "bad karma" if we are going to use there verbs Thais understand and using, hitting Thailand right now. Its all going on for years where greed and a mai pen rai was all they talk about. I'm not sure this problem is never going to be handled correct, cause my experience of Thai is the like to talk to a desiccation, but never ever full fill it to action. A cynical person could argue that they're simply trying to put so much pressure on the junta that Thailand will go back to being a kleptocracy- which is what the USA and EU want. Had they cracked down 3 years ago, it wouldn't be so suspicious. The violations were already decades old. But the internet in general and social media in particular, isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyscot Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'll go against the grain here and suggest the general has done as much as he could've done in such a short time,, most likely he has had many issues to undo/fix from the previous administrations of both yingluck and I'm sad to say Abhisit, I guess the 6 months was always an impossible task, but at least he has made some small inroads which is more than can be said about the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'll go against the grain here and suggest the general has done as much as he could've done in such a short time,, most likely he has had many issues to undo/fix from the previous administrations of both yingluck and I'm sad to say Abhisit, I guess the 6 months was always an impossible task, but at least he has made some small inroads which is more than can be said about the others Holey moley. There's more of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Yeah, did great job until he backed down and let the unregulated illegal boats out again. Edited July 25, 2015 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 These things take time, give him a chance. How come no one is looking into Burmese, Indonesian, even Malaysian fishing industries. Thailand must be a problem because it has a Military Government, Bull Shit! Stop the threats and let Thailand have time to sort this out. How much more time should they give Thailand to sort it out?Another 6 months, maybe a year? Or how about 5 years, or 25 years? Wait, lets give them another 100 years to sort it out themselves, that would be enough time right? Would you speak the same when it would be your relatives who are slaves on fishing boats? I think not. Maybe try to grow some compassion. The answer to your question is obvious: Until the next red government. Then it can be used as a pretext for their removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksamuiguy Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I will compare the 102 countries I have lived,instructed, trained, taught, fought, represented, and advised in my life with you anytime. Probably more than 102 now as many have changed their names over the decades I have been around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongfarang Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yeah, did great job until he backed down and let the unregulated illegal boats out again. Agree...if ever there was an invitation for a red card that was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucec64 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Oh Prayut, Prayut ...... Toys and Prams come to mind Doesn't anyone think it's strange that Thai fishermen have been illegally fishing with slaves for generations, migrants have been trafficked through Thailand for decades, Thai airlines have had substandard standards for years, and yet, it's all coming to the fore now? I suspect the reason it is coming to the fore is because the guy is actually trying to do something about it. And the first step- is to allow the media to report on it. Which it's been doing. Unlike the past where we rarely read about mass graves of Rohingyas, slaves on fishing boats, poor airline standards, etc. I don't blame the guy for getting hacked. These are problems that took generations of corruption and kleptocracy to create and ferment. They're not going to be unwound in a typical news cycle. Given the disdain the EU and USA have for military rule, he's pretty reasonable for suspecting they're turning the screws now for fishing, TIP and airline safety, but their real agenda is to get back to the Kleptocracy. It ain't paranoid if they're really after you. From a moral viewpoint the dismantling of the slave trade within the fishing industry is more important than arguing over whether the EU's intervention is politically motivated. No person should ever be allowed to own another, and if a clash of political ideals is what was needed to start bringing about an end to this inhumane practice then so be it. I don't disagree with that. But given the topic of the thread (and the post I'm replying to), I can't blame the guy if he's a little miffed that they gave the previous 20 (okay, an exaggeration) governments a pass, and now they "get serious", and want generations of problems solved in 90 days- or else. It puts him in an untenable position. Poor guy. They are all ganging up on him!!!! He put himself in an untenable position when he called the army out of the barracks and is now whining when faced with the repercussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klauskunkel Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Threat of libel suit not working on EU, crying about misunderstanding not working on EU, explanation of Thainess not working on EU, Article 44 not working on EU...all the PM's tools not working on EU, so sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob12345 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I will compare the 102 countries I have lived,instructed, trained, taught, fought, represented, and advised in my life with you anytime. Probably more than 102 now as many have changed their names over the decades I have been around. If your knowledge of those 102 other countries goes as deep as your knowledge and insights of what is happening in Thailand then don't bother with your comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I admire you positive thinking on this issue, I was for a short time a believer in the PM and his intention to change the country. Since then I have read some Thai history and have also seen the the loss of momentum on what we could have expected to be simple solutions to simple problems, like sorting taxi transport, beach vendors and the despised jetski scammers on Phuket on all of these issues it seems clear that the well connected and or criminal families/ gangs are too strong to be influenced or dismantled by the PM, if in fact that was his intention. Like you it all looked promising, initially and having recently visited my local beach, Nai Harn on Phuket, I was amazed to see how much it had changed. Majority of restaurants gone and no loungers. The lagoon at the end now resembles a pristine mangrove. However, problems with increasingly urgent need (given ever rising rta fatalities) for public transportation and reports of noxious jetskis on other beaches remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakk9 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 These things take time, give him a chance. How come no one is looking into Burmese, Indonesian, even Malaysian fishing industries. Thailand must be a problem because it has a Military Government, Bull Shit! Stop the threats and let Thailand have time to sort this out. Boat owners are selling their boats, good they probable can't produce the necessary papers to prove ownership, and taxes paid. Yep, the Burmese and buying the boats, how about that! The Malaysians are in deep shit, took time as they are better at keeping secrets, the tip of the iceberg is visible and soon it will be big enough to sink the boat. I am still wondering why no one is criticizing,China, Iran, Iraq, Sudan the list goes on and on, Why is Thailand picked on when the real Killers of the world get away with murder and no one says anything There are no guns on the streets, people are secure in their homes, crime on citizen is very low just as it is against tourists. Comparatively "The Kingdom" of Thailand is the safest country in the world. On this forum we only get the bad things that happen to people, look at the statistics lo low to even calculate. The economic refuges send them home, ileagel workers send the home. They are a drain on limited resources at the present time. Patriotism and Thainess are very much needed now in "The Kingdom" I interact with Thai's and Farangs every day the only complaints I hear are "personal preferences" no hot water, food to hot, immigration slow long lines. Nothing substantive or really important, all are happy, so why do all most bitches seem to come from this forum? You're way off the mark. While illegal fisheries flourish around the world, few are as active as the Thai fishing boat owners. They fish in the waters of all neighbouring countries, even as far as Indonesia. It's common to have several boats under the same license, which have resulted in far to many vessels and no control over how much fish is actually caught. As for Myanmar, they lack vessels, but partly due to the Thais activities in their waters (which were legal until last year, but not on the scale that was actually happening), catches are diminishing. When that is said, Prayut's government has actually done more than any other government the last few decades to fix this. The problem is that fishing boat owners have immense influence locally and that enormous amounts of money are involved. In reality, the government doesn't have the means to control this in a proper way unless they replace all corrupt government officials that are supposed to oversee this nationwide. Another problem is that a EU boycott probably won't affect the fishing boats much. There are other markets, they can deliver in neighbouring countries and they can deliver fish for production of fishmeal, a product that is profitable and very much sought after worldwide. The only reason this government did anything was because of the yellow card. If they deliver their catches in other countries these countries will get banned with Thailand. If you read the EU regulations you will know this. If they divert the fish to fishmeal they will decrease their income to +- 20% of their present income, because fishmeal is much cheaper than fish for human consumption. Outside of the EU and the US there are very few open markets (markets not giving protection to their own fisheries). I agree, but they are still options. These people are, as most criminals are, rather flexible, and will do what is necessary to make money, even if it's less profitable than the current solution. Since the seafood industry all over Southeast Asia is not very transparent, it will take time before EU figures out what is happening, and when they do, Thailand is already off the hook, and the fishermen don't really care if other nations get into problems. Also, they are not nearly as dependent on seafood export to EU as Thailand is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinhp Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 But the thing is he don't have a government so they banning him so he can stand on his head and as soon as he is gone the problem solved he is the illegal thing So good luck He might look around somewhere there might be a brain he can borrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down the rabbit hole Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Poor guy. They are all ganging up on him!!!!He put himself in an untenable position when he called the army out of the barracks and is now whining when faced with the repercussions. Sums it up pretty well. From thinking he has unlimted ability and was the single most able person in Thailand to treasonously throw out an elected governement. everything in his world is turning to poop. Frankly I have no sympathy at all for him or his mates. I still think it will turn out very badly for them all. If Thais can grow some testicles that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down the rabbit hole Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 And yes, as a matter of fact I do think Prayuth is a poopy-head, but then he's Thai so he got a natural advantage. Ansd what's wrong with my posts? Answered, then asked. OK, I really can't be bothered. As a friend once said - 'don't wrestle with pigs, you get dirty and it oinly annoys the pig'. Or, as another said - ' can you teach quantum mechanics to your dog? If not, you should learn from that and let this tosser go his own way unmolested' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I read the comments before and it amazes me how anyone can defend the guy. I know some TV posters are nationalistic but please be realistic. He was warned many, many moons ago. Do not blame the 20 or so governments before. In fact the sam ruling elite have had a strangle hold here. You are embarrasing yourself. He should have got his house in order and he hasn't. I have said it before. If you want to join the club you better play by the rules. The world has moved on and this great country, yes potentially great, needs to move with the times. Clean your house up and you can be one of the best. Stop behaving like a child who has dropped his rattle out of the pram, especially when yoiu have been told many, many times what to do. also those people still blaming Thaksin, shame on you. As much as I didn't like him, he still rpresented the majourity of the people. Bangkok has to realise that Bangkok isn't Thailand. If they want to be seen that want, they should go the Singapore route and become independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Dear Mr. Prim Pryouth ! We dont give a red card to Syria or Congo, as we dont and will not sooon import fishery products from such countries ! But Thailand is now very close to join this countries of their bahavier ! You have done more than this countries, but not more than any other country in the worlld ! There r more than 250 Countries ww !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I dont agree, i support the junta and like i always tell the red cheerleaders when a crime has been committed and someone is punished its not political. Here the Thais are breaking the rules its not imaginary and they have had warnings so not political. It would be political if there was no base to ban Thai products, but there is so its just enforcing the law. Prayut has inherited the problems from all the previous governments, it might be bad luck that it surfaces now or there are alternative motives but the fact remains the problem that is being pursued is real. IMHO its never political when there is a real crime. Don't get me wrong. I'm 100% behind the EU for imposing sanctions. But they should have done it years ago. I just question the timing. And make no mistake. It's always political. Everything the EU does is political - the timing, the details, the affects on member countries etc. EU committees are made up of people who fight for their own countries interests. Nothing to do with conservation, safety, good practice per se. Otherwise they would have done it years ago. Which countries in the EU would benefit from the blocking of Thai and possibly other countries fish exports? Maybe the same ones whose fishing vessels still get caught regularly by the Royal and Irish Navies for fishing illegally? That doesn't excuse the Thais for their illegal, immoral and myopic attitudes. Nor their inability to enforce their own laws. Edited July 25, 2015 by Baerboxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I read the comments before and it amazes me how anyone can defend the guy. I know some TV posters are nationalistic but please be realistic. He was warned many, many moons ago. Do not blame the 20 or so governments before. In fact the sam ruling elite have had a strangle hold here. You are embarrasing yourself. He should have got his house in order and he hasn't. I have said it before. If you want to join the club you better play by the rules. The world has moved on and this great country, yes potentially great, needs to move with the times. Clean your house up and you can be one of the best. Stop behaving like a child who has dropped his rattle out of the pram, especially when yoiu have been told many, many times what to do. also those people still blaming Thaksin, shame on you. As much as I didn't like him, he still rpresented the majourity of the people. Bangkok has to realise that Bangkok isn't Thailand. If they want to be seen that want, they should go the Singapore route and become independent. How many times we discuss and know ! This land of LOs , is rotten and corrupt from food to head ! And all of them - All !! dont want to change ! And they will not change ! So only 1 action is required !! Dont deal withthem before they change !! ASEA will show them in short where the ways are going ! Manufuctories starting to leave this sinking boat !! Lokk at their economic values - compaired to their neighbouring countries !! Just look into europe !! all this new member countires from east Europe - someone which want work and be honest - reached wellfare in almost 10 years ! The others sinking in the morast like rotten trees !! Same with this nice country and some - few honest people you still can find !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx22cb Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yeah, did great job until he backed down and let the unregulated illegal boats out again. I agree - it's amazing how Prayut shows such compassion for these 500 slave boats - he must have found out who are behind some of these illegal fishing businesses (in BKK and in the South). Perhaps he should continue to go after low-hanging fruit like students and bike racers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 These things take time, give him a chance. How come no one is looking into Burmese, Indonesian, even Malaysian fishing industries. Thailand must be a problem because it has a Military Government, Bull Shit! Stop the threats and let Thailand have time to sort this out. Boat owners are selling their boats, good they probable can't produce the necessary papers to prove ownership, and taxes paid. Yep, the Burmese and buying the boats, how about that! The Malaysians are in deep shit, took time as they are better at keeping secrets, the tip of the iceberg is visible and soon it will be big enough to sink the boat. I am still wondering why no one is criticizing,China, Iran, Iraq, Sudan the list goes on and on, Why is Thailand picked on when the real Killers of the world get away with murder and no one says anything There are no guns on the streets, people are secure in their homes, crime on citizen is very low just as it is against tourists. Comparatively "The Kingdom" of Thailand is the safest country in the world. On this forum we only get the bad things that happen to people, look at the statistics lo low to even calculate. The economic refuges send them home, ileagel workers send the home. They are a drain on limited resources at the present time. Patriotism and Thainess are very much needed now in "The Kingdom" I interact with Thai's and Farangs every day the only complaints I hear are "personal preferences" no hot water, food to hot, immigration slow long lines. Nothing substantive or really important, all are happy, so why do all most bitches seem to come from this forum? Right my good man it would seem you have your heart in the right place and are very proactive and see potential in this country, as I do.. As a long time resident who I believe gives a lot back to the country and I genuingly, see ahuge potential in the country. Your comments on Thainess and Happiness are just words. people are not happy. They have been indoctrinated for many many years.The times are changing. You can't do that in this digital world. The ruling elite have creamed from the poor for too long. Poor peop,e are not stupd and understand what is going on. They may not read the paper every day but they know what is happening. It may not affect them on a daily level but on a wider scale it does. You do not get only bad things on this forum. You get good advice from people who have lived in many countries and seen many governments. Many countries have problems. Some progress and some go backwards. This is the stage that Thailand is in. Please forget your patrioctic believe. This country needs to change and move forward for the better, especially as I call this home. The biggest concept you are missing, is the critical analysis. We are not bitches but just questioning the rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yeah, did great job until he backed down and let the unregulated illegal boats out again. I agree - it's amazing how Prayut shows such compassion for these 500 slave boats - he must have found out who are behind some of these illegal fishing businesses (in BKK and in the South). I don't understand the decision either. But it may be the 5000(?) family members whose only means of support are the 500 illegal boats (notice I don't assume they're "slave" boats- many seem to simply lack $$$ documentation). Or, perhaps he's seen what happened to the Thai fishing boats that have naturally gotten out of fishing due to declining fish stocks. They get modified to smuggle people, rice, diesel, palm oil, and you name it. It's like whack a mole, and he may feel it's better to battle the evil you know- where there is a solution, albeit not a quick solution. Once again, I don't know. But I'd bet he's smarter than a lot of folks give him credit for. Maybe too smart by half, and it's all a scheme to fire up the killing fields on this side of the Cambo border. But I'll wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyscot Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) 2 entirely different things that needed fixing,, the slave labour and the illegal fishing, I think he tried too hard too quickly regarding fixing of the illegal fishing issue because it's near impossible to properly address and implement this in as short a time as six months, the enforced measures would have put thousands of families livelihoods in jeopardy without any real plans for compensation to those affected, and I'm talking about the workforce here as well as the owners,, maybe he saw that this deadline was impossible to meet hence possibly why he backtracked, it's just a thought anyway,, I'd suggest in an appropriate timescale sufficient to get things right we shall see changes for the better coming to the Thai fishing industry,, After all It took many years for the UK fisheries authorities/fishermen to get their house in order, (unsure whether it actually is 100% now?) neighbouring countries to UK were flouting the measures UK authorities were implementing, foreign vessels fishing alongside UK vessels fishing with nets nearly half the mesh size UK vessels were ordered to fish with. I wont comment on the slave labour as it's something I'm not too familiar with in this day and age, although back in my day as a fisherman we thrived on hard work and long working hours,,, I suppose bears some small resemblance to what some now call slave labour, the difference being if we didn't like it we could go find another job elsewhere, whereas these poor guys apparently can't Edited July 25, 2015 by jonnyscot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 'Prayut retorted by saying his government had done its best in tackling the problem.' What, by extending the deadline for the industry to come into line with the law by a further two months? That from the six months they'd already spent prevaricating over meeting the requirements. Place the blame where it lies, Mr PM; with the Thai fishing industry and its bleating, and with the government for capitulating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckBee Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 buck Prayut can only blame himself as he & his dodgy government went soft & let the illegal boats back out. If the army can't even show the gumption & balls to control lottery ticket sellers then the country is up 5hit creek & thainess is worthless in the real world. At least with the baht plummeting my next shopping trip to happy-happy-thailand will be a bargain :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabis Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Just yesterday was talking to a local who ownes a legit fishery - all his grudges and complaints were in regard of illegal fishing hurting his business, and cost margin jumping up and down - then his produce prices go up and down, like a rollercoaster, so as within one week the margins can fluctuate from -50% to +200% on the produce sold on local markets, all based on how much "under the desk"-produce gets introduced to the wholesalers, and effectively the retailers. Not a healthy economy, when you have zero chance to forecast the market based on gray economy running alongside it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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