THAI to reduce international and regional flights to cut costs

[Asiantravel]

Get that arrogant smile off the staff's face; introduce a tariff structure which is competitive and revamp the entire image.

Ever been to TG's Pattaya office without parking and waiting a solid 45 minutes to be served by a frustrated ticket agent?

One in ten flights is rescheduled, cancelled or the passenger (i.e. me) rerouted. The other local carriers are no better but operate at half the price.

Long haul: use Middle Eastern or even European carriers. Finnair, Air France or KLM - just to name three - take you to Europe in more modern planes with a proven safety record (no DCA waving alarming flags on security or safety) at upto half the price; presently around THB 25'000. All no frills but serving the purpose of taking you from A to B.

If they can do it I wonder why TG cannot do it. 25 years ago TG was the pride of Thailand - a very, very, very far cry from what it represents today.

Air France, no thanks. I wouldn't trust them after their 2009 accident while flying from Rio De Janeiro to Paris. Not to mention the Concorde crash in 2001, the 2005 runway overrun in Montreal, and if we go back to the 90s, the A320 incident at an airshow in Alsace. I don't think they have a very good safety record as far as European carriers go and THAI still has a good proven safety record that is much better than that of Air France, with no fatal incidents recorded since 1998 and indeed no fatal incidents on any long-haul aircraft recorded that I can recall.

Heading to Europe, I'll stick to THAI (or otherwise go for Singapore Airlines) as I'm a frequent flyer member of Royal Orchid Plus which is in Star Alliance. Middle Eastern carriers? They're not all what they claim to be. My uncle (a former long haul pilot for Swissair and then Swiss) was not very impressed with Emirates. So I think apart from price, liking/disliking airlines is a very subjective thing and my take is that THAI, despite their relatively high fares, which should be reduced, are not half bad. There may be better options, but don't go saying they are horrible either because they are not.

" Finnair, Air France or KLM - just to name three - take you to Europe in more modern planes "

has Finnair recently renewed its fleet or something because when I flew with them from Bangkok to Helsinki 4 years ago I travelled in a dreadfully old DC-10 - well past its use by date (and that applied to the female cabin crew as well )

[easybullet3]

Get that arrogant smile off the staff's face; introduce a tariff structure which is competitive and revamp the entire image.

Ever been to TG's Pattaya office without parking and waiting a solid 45 minutes to be served by a frustrated ticket agent?

One in ten flights is rescheduled, cancelled or the passenger (i.e. me) rerouted. The other local carriers are no better but operate at half the price.

Long haul: use Middle Eastern or even European carriers. Finnair, Air France or KLM - just to name three - take you to Europe in more modern planes with a proven safety record (no DCA waving alarming flags on security or safety) at upto half the price; presently around THB 25'000. All no frills but serving the purpose of taking you from A to B.

If they can do it I wonder why TG cannot do it. 25 years ago TG was the pride of Thailand - a very, very, very far cry from what it represents today.

also, their planes are mostly OLD. and you can google their 'incidents'. they litterally had TONNES of incidents, (way more than most other decent airlines).

i usually avoid them because of their low safety record.

also: they are usually the last to adopt 'new gadgets' or 'upgrades' for their planes, (years behind all the other airlines).

so why would anyone pay an 'over-priced' airline for 'low-budget' services ?

[SunLover2]

TG "owns" two slots at LHR, they have to use them (or lease them to another carrier) or lose them.

Slots at LHR are limited and relatively valuable, although VN did a get a newly created slot recently.

They ceased the second flight on 1 July 2015, will begin again on 25 Oct 2015.

Morning and afternoon slot pairs at LHR are indeed valuable, and have recently changed hands for $50,000,000+ USD. Evening slots do not time out well for most long haul carriers; and the best offer TG received for its 9:30pm departure slot was $1 USD from a short haul carrier to lease it.

I think TG *might* be back in the North American market after they get their financial house in order, and have enough of the proper equipment (787-8/9's) to fly an efficient non-stop.

SL

[mattyc1957]

1400? And one?? Pretty precise.

[UTH001]

The best coach flight I have ever taken, (having flown around the world on many various airlines 4 times) has been on Thai Airways. I have not tried them all, but the flight from LAX to Bangkok a few years ago really made the onset of my trip very wonderful. In this light, I am saddened that one of the few airlines I had this opportunity to use did not smash me into a tiny seat where I had no leg room, pitted against people who, if I moved my elbow 2 inches would have gotten in the way of their elbows--

I remember curry duck and all the fruit and cheese I could eat and snacks and wine all night served, with ample space and the entire atmosphere was simply lovely.

Thank you Thai airways! Will miss your flights that were very well done.

Duck and cheese and wine and snacks all night, IN SHEEP CLASS??? Maybe I must try them again, not been my experience so far, Thai seems to have the tiniest wine glasses in the sky...

[Jim walker]

In this times of austerity cuts have to be made Ryan air are doing well under good management and have announced fare cuts of up to 8% due to the fuel savings made, and if anything is unprofitable in any company it has to stop or it will haemorrhage the good profits from any company, and this can affect any future investment within a company. Get rid of the slackers and wasters, dont just pension them off sack them, flog off the old inefficient planes, put the passengers needs first.

[dcsw53]

Thai Airways to cut 1,401 jobs, suspend flights to U.S.

Reuters being sensationalist about this. Cutting one route, Bangkok - Los Angeles, is hardly withdrawing from the market .

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think L.A. was the last U.S. route that Thai Air was running, after having canceled New York some years back.

[Robbie Dye]

Only one answer. Denationalize TG.

[Jiggo]

I see they have put the old night flight back on for LHR-BKK, so now they have a Boeing 777 and an A380 leaving London every day.

Also, prices for LHR-BKK-LHR a with Thai at the moment are fantastic.....GBP509.00 LHR-CNX-LHR all in!

GBP498.00 with online agents.

Cheapest by a long way!

OK but BKK-LON-BKK GBP 989 work that one out......

[bangon04]

TG 665.

yesterday, from Shanghai to Bangkok.

We stayed in the airplane waiting for 4 hours before it took of to Bangkok, only information been given 'Queing for departure".

Traveling economic class no option to charge phone (USB), bad service, bad food (dry bread, vegetable no taste, small wine glass, salad 7 small prawns no dressing or sauce) and after 4 hours on a full and hot airplane bad smell.

Should arrive 21:00 in Bangkok, arrived 01:10.

No smile for me yesterday, and not again.

We have had Chinese Air Force drills overhead for the last few days in the afternoon.

Shuts down the airspace. Unaware of any other major airport that continuously suffers

from this?

Any airport which has many flights through Shanghai airspace...

Hong Kong airport suffers regularly with dozens of cancellations and delays at short notice for a whole day.

[darren84310]

Interesting that when they had an accident, they got in the spirit doctor to ward off the spirits and solve the problem..... why couldn't they have called him back to bless the airline and change it's fortunes?.... oh yeah, on this occasion they're playing with money and not lives.

[bangon04]

The Malaysians have brought in a German who has worked for a number of airlines in turning them around. He has no problem in making deep cuts to get them profitable and has the backing of the government. The Thais will never bring in a guy like this. Talk talk talk thats all you ever get.

The Philippines brought in Lufthansa to oversee their servicing. Manila airport is still terrible, but at least the aircraft are looked after.

[baboon]

thai air flys from LHR to BKK around 30 mins before or after the EVA flight, ive booked 40+ flights with EVA because in most cases they were HUNDREDS of pounds cheaper than thai and the last time i bothered to ask, thai were still using 747's.

747? ......nah!

....and just before posting this i phoned to check prices. EVA to BKK £515.....thai to BKK £745...... nah again.....but apparently they have a 777 now....wow!

The B777 takes an hour longer to get to London. The 747-400 is still the fastest, I once came from LHR to BKK in 10hr 15mins on a Thai 747-400, then again, is an hour each way worth 230 quid?!

Well, I have done LHR - BKK on a fully loaded BA 777 in 10hr 30mins, so I doubt there is all that much difference. Mind you, the return flight at 12hrs 45mins was no picnic, it has to be said... Edited July 27, 2015 by baboon

[kjhbigv]

thai air flys from LHR to BKK around 30 mins before or after the EVA flight, ive booked 40+ flights with EVA because in most cases they were HUNDREDS of pounds cheaper than thai and the last time i bothered to ask, thai were still using 747's.

747? ......nah!

....and just before posting this i phoned to check prices. EVA to BKK £515.....thai to BKK £745...... nah again.....but apparently they have a 777 now....wow!

That is just not correct, Thai ARE the cheapest at the moment LHR-BKK-LHR and if you pick the midday flight, you are on a new Airbus A380.

They are also reinstating their 21.30 flight on a 777.

[davidstipek]

i just dont understand, dont they know the growth rate of tourism here, tat should run this airline

heh heh.

its probably a real move to stop or slow the bleeding.

but it is terribly managed. I stopped flying them years ago, along with many others.

and it is a very competitive marketplace. it is not easy to operate an airline. it requires huge investment in assets and maintenance. these issues alone demand competent management. dealing with the competition is another.

they have to exist - Thailand needs a national carrier for many reasons. there are many locations that need service, and so many state employees, officers, retired employees, families, and so on that need tickets, etc. and everyone wants a free ticket.

so, it will go on making a loss with the money coming from the national coffers, until forever.......

No truer words ever said...... It has been this way for years.... The free ticket gig has been reported for years.... Call it bad management in my opinion.......

And it is true, their prices have always been double.... Suck it up Thai Airways, because there nothing more to suck up.....

What a shame..... Or maybe, it is ok, it is about time......

I recently returned from USA.... on a Eva Flight. Seattle to Taipei. we had a minimum of 18 Stewards/Stewardess staffing plane. Taipei to Bangkok no less then 16... Full service meals and care for passengers, wine or beer as an free option... all the coffee you could drink...(I Love Hot Coffee !!) Kids were given Ice Cream... Free! 5 hr layover in BKK waiting a flight to Chiang Mai... Nothing to eat (arrived at little before 1100hrs and connecting flight left at after 1700hrs...

Here is Thai Cost Savings... Thai Air mind you now. We had a full plane, every seat filled! 6 Stewardess... 3 I believe should have been retired (age) or using walkers... meal was tuna or chicken salad (1/2 Sandwich) fruit cup, small stale cake I think, could not tell it was too hard! I asked for coffee... was told they had none.... if I wanted tea... I wanted something hot to dip the cake in to make it chewable.... Well sorry tea was lukewarm at its best. ( was probably heated some where in terminal... definitely not on plane, I would have been better asking for a glass of water... would have been same temperature! Lady sitting next to me asked for ice... she got a cube! 3/4x3/4 inch would have overstated the size... she could not get another.

Point being this was a 707... how many seats? and total boarded passengers at 1,100 Baht for economy class what was total revenue pocketed with less then a output of 30-50 baht expense per seat....???? They are not making money? Flight was a little over 1 hr, Who pocketed the profit?

I was seated next to this very pretty Thai Lady... she told me she had tried to buy Luxury seating was told there was none available... so she took the open seat, which happened to be seat "B" I was in "C". I gave her mine (we exchanged so if she needed restroom she would not have to ask me to move (I did not want someone taking a picture of this Beautiful lady tring to climb over my lap... I knew who she was and about 20 minute into flight one of the Younger Stewardess recognized her also... I was pleased to do anything I could for this Thai Actress (She signed the face of my ticket- Autograph...) and I opened my backpack and shared My stash of peanutbutter Oreos with her. Since I have been home she has visited me and my wife twice... I have 2 Bottles of Hennessey VSO as gifts from her, as she said my Customer Service excelled that of the flight we had shared....

Is this the normal, average or was something else going on... certainly wasn't because I was not Thai... My neighbor certain was and I was ashamed of the way she was treated and tried to make amends......

Wish EVA flew to Chiang Mai... Oh... and the Lady next to me? Yes... She paid for her seat! although I am certain beyond a Doubt if she had show an ID she would have been given one... maybe not next to me.... hmmm!

Edited July 27, 2015 by davidstipek

[baboon]

i just dont understand, dont they know the growth rate of tourism here, tat should run this airline

heh heh.

its probably a real move to stop or slow the bleeding.

but it is terribly managed. I stopped flying them years ago, along with many others.

and it is a very competitive marketplace. it is not easy to operate an airline. it requires huge investment in assets and maintenance. these issues alone demand competent management. dealing with the competition is another.

they have to exist - Thailand needs a national carrier for many reasons. there are many locations that need service, and so many state employees, officers, retired employees, families, and so on that need tickets, etc. and everyone wants a free ticket.

so, it will go on making a loss with the money coming from the national coffers, until forever.......

No truer words ever said...... It has been this way for years.... The free ticket gig has been reported for years.... Call it bad management in my opinion.......

And it is true, their prices have always been double.... Suck it up Thai Airways, because there nothing more to suck up.....

What a shame..... Or maybe, it is ok, it is about time......

Point being this was a 707... how many seats? and total boarded passengers at 1,100 Baht for economy class what was total revenue pocketed with less then a output of 30-50 baht expense per seat....???? They are not making money? Flight was a little over 1 hr, Who pocketed the profit?

Good lord! No wonder THAI are going down the crapper if they are flying 707s still...?

[kimamey]

Yea, they are "pulling out" of the American market because the US is banning them because of safety concerns. That is the real story.

Now if the government would let a private entity run the railroads as well as the airline they might actually get better. But the unions are strong. The government is between a rock and a hard place.

If that's the case they've got a problem. If the US bans then the EU probably won't be far behind.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yea, they are "pulling out" of the American market because the US is banning them because of safety concerns. That is the real story.

Now if the government would let a private entity run the railroads as well as the airline they might actually get better. But the unions are strong. The government is between a rock and a hard place.

If that's the case they've got a problem. If the US bans then the EU probably won't be far behind.

Elgenon's comment is not quite right as regards the notion of a U.S. ban, which is something the U.S. doesn't do.

I already addressed that in response in a prior post. The U.S. doesn't ban, but, the EU does/could!!!

Edited July 27, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[deckape]

Ten years flying LAX BBK Thai only came in cheapest only once. Always miles more expensive than China Airlines. I do know Thais will go out of their way to fly TG. At the end of the day it wasn't enough. Guess we will see exact how much this airline is worth to current or future governments.

[SheungWan]

I took an economy seat in one of the new Thai Air A380s BKK-HKG-BKK. Awful leg room and awful food. Once the old 747s were replaced no reason at all to fly Thai now. Well maybe business class but the alternatives much better value. its all over.

[ginjag]

thai air flys from LHR to BKK around 30 mins before or after the EVA flight, ive booked 40+ flights with EVA because in most cases they were HUNDREDS of pounds cheaper than thai and the last time i bothered to ask, thai were still using 747's.

747? ......nah!

....and just before posting this i phoned to check prices. EVA to BKK £515.....thai to BKK £745...... nah again.....but apparently they have a 777 now....wow!

That is just not correct, Thai ARE the cheapest at the moment LHR-BKK-LHR and if you pick the midday flight, you are on a new Airbus A380.

They are also reinstating their 21.30 flight on a 777.

Now this is different----quote Bkk-LHR return, as most of us here will be booking in Thailand. If you want to show Thai in favour---then boast about it's flights FROM Thailand.

[oldsailor35]

Thai were once a great choice to fly to MEL. Then the prices went up. Management was obviously the problem.

I hope they get it right. Inflight was always good.

Same BKK to Brisbane, always used them , but then the fares started to rise. Too expensive now.

[scotinsiam]

I am reading this thread and wondering why you would fly THAI ? makes no sense.

[oldsailor35]

What Tai Air needs, is a good 'airline savvy' foreign CEO. Until this happens the airline will continue to go down hill. There is no one in Thailand capable of running an airline well enough to make money , or even survive.

[SunsetT]

I see they have put the old night flight back on for LHR-BKK, so now they have a Boeing 777 and an A380 leaving London every day.

Also, prices for LHR-BKK-LHR a with Thai at the moment are fantastic.....GBP509.00 LHR-CNX-LHR all in!

GBP498.00 with online agents.

Cheapest by a long way!

TG "owns" two slots at LHR, they have to use them (or lease them to another carrier) or lose them.

Slots at LHR are limited and relatively valuable, although VN did a get a newly created slot recently.

They ceased the second flight on 1 July 2015, will begin again on 25 Oct 2015.

LHR-BKK-LHR will always be less expensive than BKK-LHR-BKK. (or any XXX-BKK-XXX < BKK-XXX-BKK).

"LHR-BKK-LHR will always be less expensive than BKK-LHR-BKK. (or any XXX-BKK-XXX < BKK-XXX-BKK)."

Why? I do not understand why this is so. Anyone know?

[bamukloy]

It is usually considerably cheaper to fly from BKK to LHR [or most other 'western' cities] than it is the other way around. Go figure.

No great mystery. They charge foreigners a premium as to recoup losses from airport taxes, government fees, and any other higher operating costs involved in doing business on the western end.

Whatsmore, Id say they cant get away with paying their staff a thai style minimum wage in some regions..which probably also explains the sacking of staff in various locations

[tonbridgebrit]

i just dont understand, dont they know the growth rate of tourism here, tat should run this airline

And therein lies the problem.... even in the article above the first key warning that in reality its going to be more of the same is the statement about the growth in the Chinese market.... these routes are loss makers, the fares dont allow for any reasonable profit....... focus on the Chinese market and you will very quickly see the bottom line become a bolder red.

However it is encouraging that they are looking more at the higher profit better quality tourist European market and one hopes that their strategic plan is focussed on this market and use Chinese market as capacity fill only ( contribution business only).... however I fear that the powers that be at Thai Airlines will not want to see drastically reduced PAX numbers compared to other regional airlines......

Sorry, what are you trying to say ?

Okay, they are going to reduce flights connecting Bangkok with Los Angeles, Rome, Calcutta and Hyder Rabat. These routes don't make much money. Routes to Laung Prabang and Chang Xa will be given to Thai Smile.

Fine. The routes to European cities are more profitable, concentrate on them, fine.

But what about the routes to the cities in China ? There's already a massive number of Chinese tourists entering into Thailand, and as the report itself says, 'over 100 per cent growth in the Chinese market'.

Do you feel that the routes to Chinese cities don't make a profit ? Do you feel that these routes should be reduced or cut ? Do you feel that there is no point in competing for those Chinese passengers ?

It might be the case that Chinese tourists don't spend money in the bars and restaurants, and they only eat in the hotels they stay at. It might be the case that they don't buy souvenir t-shirts. But they do pay for their plane tickets to get to Thailand. Yes, the critics claim that Chinese airlines fly in the Chinese tourists, and Chinese hotel companies cater for the Chinese tourists, hence, the biggest gainers regarding Chinese tourists are Chinese owned companies.

Surely, Thailand must compete to transport and cater for the Chinese tourists, compete against the Chinese-owned companies, and not shun those tourists ??

[55Jay]

I am reading this thread and wondering why you would fly THAI ? makes no sense.

I believe that's been the general consensus for quite some time.

TG President will get a hefty performance bonus for figuring it out, and taking bold, imaginative, decisive action.

[Sydebolle]

Too funny and too co-incidential

Get that arrogant smile off the staff's face; introduce a tariff structure which is competitive and revamp the entire image.
Ever been to TG's Pattaya office without parking and waiting a solid 45 minutes to be served by a frustrated ticket agent?
One in ten flights is rescheduled, cancelled or the passenger (i.e. me) rerouted. The other local carriers are no better but operate at half the price.

Long haul: use Middle Eastern or even European carriers. Finnair, Air France or KLM - just to name three - take you to Europe in more modern planes with a proven safety record (no DCA waving alarming flags on security or safety) at upto half the price; presently around THB 25'000. All no frills but serving the purpose of taking you from A to B.

If they can do it I wonder why TG cannot do it. 25 years ago TG was the pride of Thailand - a very, very, very far cry from what it represents today.