Standard-scale map adoption by September

[Lite Beer]

1:4,000 SCALE
Standard-scale map adoption by September
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Forest demarcation disputes behind move

Justice Minister Paiboon Koomchaya has instructed all relevant state agencies to adopt official standard-scale maps in a move aimed at solving the problem of disputed forest demarcation.

General Paiboon, as chairman of the national anti-graft centre, told the agencies to adopt a one-map policy by September based on the 1:4,000 scale, according to a source from the Justice Ministry.

State agencies that still use 1:50,000 or 1:100,000 scale maps need to change to the new scale, the standard adopted by the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology.

The standard maps will be submitted to the Cabinet for endorsement by March.

The state agencies will meet on Thursday to discuss revisions to their maps. Paiboon said the state agencies had agreed to the need to use the standard scale.

He said the non-standard maps used by different agencies were to blame for widespread encroachments on state land, including national forests and widespread fraud in the issuing of ownership documents, as there were overlapping areas due to the various scales.

Paiboon chaired a meeting with officials from the ministries of Natural Resources and Environment, Agriculture and the Interior and other agencies to discuss the implementation of the one-map policy.

The move aims to make it impossible to issue land ownership documents that are fraudulent, while authorities would be able to take action against people who encroached on forestland more effectively.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Standard-scale-map-adoption-by-September-30265695.html

-- The Nation 2015-08-02

[Artisi]

What does map scale have to do with corruption?

[NongKhaiKid]

Somchai our office has just received a batch of the new standard-scale maps for use.

Now all we need to do is learn which is the right way up to read them.

[jerojero]

And why this is newsworthy?

[apetley]

What does map scale have to do with corruption?

It doesn't. It's a pathetic excuse to cover the endemic corruption and inaction in the past.

[NongKhaiKid]

Back to the drawing board for officials who have been part of the illegal encroachment, illegal structures etc as the ' hampered by old, outdated maps ' excuse has gone out the window.

[jcisco]

Seriously scale is the culprit, don't any of those maps have say a value indicated anywhere in say Meters or MM. Or does everyone get out their compass and verniers and measure directly off the map....

blah... I am rather disappointed, thought there would be a more systemic, back handed reason for the land grabs

[NickJ]

Yeah right....blame it on the maps. Maybe in a few instances......But mostly its use your

special map and a boatload of money. Then put your hotel or shrimp farm in the middle of a national park.

[casualbiker]

So no one thinks it's actually a good idea to standardise the maps then?

[jaywalker]

So no one thinks it's actually a good idea to standardise the maps then?

I think the point most folks are making is that it's farcical to blame corruption on the scale of maps, and I agree with them.

I mean, GPS has been around for a long time. Mapping has not been an issue for well over a decade, but no, lets blame the differing mapping scales for the corruption.

Edited August 2, 2015 by jaywalker

[casualbiker]

I get that. But the question was does no one think that it's actually a good idea to standardise maps across departments?

Ps: GPS is good for checking things on the ground but a certified map is better in the office.

[HerbalEd]

Regarding: "He said the non-standard maps used by different agencies were to blame for widespread encroachments on state land, including national forests and widespread fraud in the issuing of ownership documents, as there were overlapping areas due to the various scales."

Bull S__t

[rubl]

1:4000 means 1 centimetre on the map is 40 metres in real life. Put your finger on the 1:100,000 map and you covered one square kilometre.

The 1:100,000 and 1:50,000 scale maps are for reasonable overview, but especially in hilly terrain larger scale maps are required to sort out the 'details'.

[cooked]

I had to deal with maps with a scale of 1 inch to the mile which was 1 ; 63 630 if I remember correctly. 2/ 1/2 inch to the mile, 12 to the mile.

[apetley]

So no one thinks it's actually a good idea to standardise the maps then?

Of course it's a good idea to standardise scales. It was done in the UK decades ago and is a relatively simple task, I know as I worked at Ordnance Survey for 25 years. Difficult to imagine why it has not been done here yet considering the obsession with borders and land demarcation.

The excuse that the non standardisation is in some way responsible for the corruption involved in land encroachment is laughable to be honest. I've seen some of the old maps at our local Amphur and it is obvious to anyone where property and other boundaries exist. The corruption is a staff rather than map problem.

[JAG]

What does map scale have to do with corruption?

Scale?

[ratcatcher]

What does map scale have to do with corruption?

Scale?

Yes, quite correct and understandable.

scale ²

(skāl)n.

1.

a. A system of ordered marks at fixed intervals used as a reference standard in measurement: a ruler whose scale is in inches.

b. An instrument or device bearing such marks.

c. A standard of measurement or judgment; a criterion.

2.

a. A proportion used in determining the dimensional relationship of a representation to that which it represents: a world map with a scale of 1:4,560,000.

b. A calibrated line, as on a map or an architectural plan, indicating such a proportion.

[JetsetBkk]

And please, can you put North at the top?

Thanks.

[Basil B]

You would have thought in this day and age they would be talking about "Digitized" maps... print any scale you want from a national map data server.

or even better still use Google Maps...

[Basil B]

He said the non-standard maps used by different agencies were to blame for widespread encroachments on state land, including national forests and widespread fraud in the issuing of ownership documents, as there were overlapping areas due to the various scales.

The simple answer is to digitize all the maps held by the land registries departments, with today's technologies it is very easy to survey boundaries to a plot of land down to few mm.

[coldfusionPaul]

no its not "a relatively simple task" to go from 1:50K to 1:4K. the difference in the amount of data is extreme & pretty expensive to gather. who's going to go out & gather 1:4K geology or soil data? those agencies barely had budget to do 1:50K. in most cases 1:50K is fine for planning & exploration, you'd only need larger scales once you found something interesting.

and no you cannot simply print any scale you want, if the data was gathered at 1:50k then that's what it is. you can zoom in 1:1 but it would be all wrong--dangerous in the hands of geographically illiterate people.

[apetley]

no its not "a relatively simple task" to go from 1:50K to 1:4K. the difference in the amount of data is extreme & pretty expensive to gather. who's going to go out & gather 1:4K geology or soil data? those agencies barely had budget to do 1:50K. in most cases 1:50K is fine for planning & exploration, you'd only need larger scales once you found something interesting.

and no you cannot simply print any scale you want, if the data was gathered at 1:50k then that's what it is. you can zoom in 1:1 but it would be all wrong--dangerous in the hands of geographically illiterate people.

It is relatively simple to introduce a standardised mapping database. I know as it was my job for the UK's National mapping agency, Ordnance Survey.

The trick lies getting the right staff to implement the task. My guess is that this guy in the OP is not up to the job as there is no need for same scale, data capture, for rural and urban areas nationwide.

It could be done by 'warping' the present maps to a standard scale, along with an aerial survey, easy but time consuming.

[Seastallion]

1:4000 means 1 centimetre on the map is 40 metres in real life. Put your finger on the 1:100,000 map and you covered one square kilometre.

The 1:100,000 and 1:50,000 scale maps are for reasonable overview, but especially in hilly terrain larger scale maps are required to sort out the 'details'.

Yeah, this is what struck me. A metre wide map would show 4 kms of land. You can get a lot of detail there and that's probably good enough for determining forest encroachment issues.

There's going to be a lot of paper printed off in the next few months.

I agree with the above suggestion....use Google maps.

[Artisi]

What does map scale have to do with corruption?

Scale?

Sorry, don't understand your question.

[timewilltell]

A great idea which should have been adopted decades ago. As for corruption it is quite likely misreading maps and errors of scale are used as excuses in cases of corruption. Anything that reduces the excuses has to be a good step forward. I welcome it

[rubl]

1:4000 means 1 centimetre on the map is 40 metres in real life. Put your finger on the 1:100,000 map and you covered one square kilometre.

The 1:100,000 and 1:50,000 scale maps are for reasonable overview, but especially in hilly terrain larger scale maps are required to sort out the 'details'.

Yeah, this is what struck me. A metre wide map would show 4 kms of land. You can get a lot of detail there and that's probably good enough for determining forest encroachment issues.

There's going to be a lot of paper printed off in the next few months.

I agree with the above suggestion....use Google maps.

What with 'pressure' in certain countries Google Maps may show different results in different countries. Not the base map (i.e. the image), but the grid overlay and so.

[JAG]

What does map scale have to do with corruption?

Scale?

Sorry, don't understand your question.

Sorry,I was being ironic, suggesting that the scale was in the corruption,ie, large scale corruption!