Will Pattaya be a ghost town in ten years?

[MyFriend You]

One of my hobbies here when I see restaurants opening is guessing when they will close. That's pretty naughty, I know. Sometimes I think places will work and then they still don't though. I couldn't have predicted all the Russian places closing before the Ruble crashed.

My first trip to Pattaya was in December 1971, Camp Same San had an Enlisted man's club in Nah Glua area, the US Navy had a small Housing Area in the vicinity of central walking street, BJ's Bar had just opened...........Pattaya was around back then, and Pattaya will be around forty more years. Those were the days though, every bar had a Mama San, I never heard of a Bar Fine until the Germans & Japanese started opening places.

[MyFriend You]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Quote unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

"Once economies world wide start doing better"

yes it of rolls off the tongue so easily doesn't it?

But not once have I read any explanation anywhere as to how this miracle of economies worldwide starting to do better is going to be achieved? Just for starters where are the jobs around the world going to come from (e.g. 44% youth unemployment in Italy, 50% youth unemployment in Spain)

I think you will see an entirely different dynamic in business, especially with employment. No longer will a few more advanced countries control technology and business development. The under-educated and under-skilled will have rough times, they will have to compete with all other nations' peoples for unlivable wages and fewer jobs. Seniority will mean nothing, life-long employment with the same firm will cease to exist.

If your job can be proceduralized, you know, written down step by step; then you can be replaced by anyone who can read. If you can learn your job in a year or less; then you can be replaced by someone with a year or less experience.

Edit: sorry, did not address the high youth unemployment in Spain and Italy. Both are in great part due to the lack of coordination between educational systems and the labor markets. In fact, I believe the EU has coined a term, NEET--no employment, education or training--to identify this phenomenon. However, if what I see for the future holds true, the educational systems and the labor markets will more effectively coordinate efforts, so there will be plenty of youthful applicants who can read and have a year or less experience.

I thought we were talking about Pattaya disappearing in 10 years not Italy or Spain's youth unemployment.........or did I skip a page, are we blaming the bar/business closures on Thai Youth unemployment now?? Hardly think so. Oh Well, back to the Thai Visa Forum, I seem to have migrated to a european one somwhere along the line.

[RabC]

I thought we were talking about Pattaya disappearing in 10 years not Italy or Spain's youth unemployment.........or did I skip a page, are we blaming the bar/business closures on Thai Youth unemployment now?? Hardly think so. Oh Well, back to the Thai Visa Forum, I seem to have migrated to a european one somwhere along the line.

He does however make a very good argument for countries not to adopt the Euro.

Edited August 4, 2015 by RabC

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Pattaya the Ghost Town? Maybe in 100 years after some major catastrophe. Until then, the unsustainable pattern of growth will continue, and the quality of life will continue to decline in response. All of the negatives will grow worse: more crime, more environmental pollution, more people pollution, more noise pollution, more corruption, more crazy/violent people (social misfits/losers of all types, Thais and farangs) and more traffic jams.

[loppylugs1]

God I hope Im gone soon,all the baggage though,but that now down to 3 dogs,one about to be adopted in USA another too hopefully I pay for flights etc.,take one with me then yippee free. Sorry for long time GF

[elgenon]

Hooters will do great. G rated sleaze. Family friendly!

What's sleazy about it except for the name? I must be missing something, naked potatoes?

[thaibeachlovers]

I think it could well go that way.

There are always a lot of people around if you look for them but it is much much quieter. Westerners numbers are certainly in great decline. There are many Chinese tourists (often blocking footpaths on Beach Road) and we all know they are not great spenders. On Thai holidays, there are also many Thai tourists. They bring their own food, drinks and beach mats; they check into a cheap hostel type of large room with mattresses on the floor and the whole family shares one room. Thai style. That's ok but doesn't help the local economy a great deal. Businesses big and small are suffering, staff in even the biggest stores are idle as there are so few spending customers. Locals are still rude to visitors and very bad mannered.

I foresee many more bars, restaurants, small hotels and other businesses closing down due to lack of spending tourists. This could easily deteriorate to the state where even the Chinese stop coming as Pattaya will no longer be attractive to tourists of any nationality. I can also imagine many building sites with part built condos that nobody is buying....Lovely!

Anyone that loved Pattaya in the early 90s, before Walking St will hope you are right.

Back then it was just a great place for farang guys. No delusions of grandeur in City Hall, no businessmen trying to attract the families and the wealthy tourists.

Really, for a guy it was a blissful place.

[manolothai]

Just changing. I see a lot of chinese and Thai. In the public holiday days I see a lot of Thai. Pattaya is reallly busy even in low season in the public holidays, and alll people arouund are Thai. And just a few farang. People will change, and businesses also. Businesses oriented towards low peofile farang will close. Businesses oriented towards thai people and high profile farang will increase profits.

Edited August 5, 2015 by manolothai

[chrisandsu]

First started going to Patts in the late 90s was a lot of fun then , have not been back for the last ten years . It lost its buzz for me , the women slowly got uglier and older , the prices have nearly got to a point of the west , it holds very little value for me in anything I would want on a holiday !! The beeches are filthy the roads are filthy the locals are rude . It's like going to a filthy Spain .

[loppylugs1]

It sure gets lonelier,all my past friends over the years have gone,not replaced by others,feel like its going to get worse and need somewhere I feel I can call home,and this is not the place.

Starting to do a few trips to Algarve ,look around there,but it now feels like a lifesaver to seek elsewhere,just the thought of getting out,the place gives encouragement that its just got to be better than this ...is getting likened to a dump

All around me high rise,unfinished,will never sell in a million years and now 103 is back on air advertising property,gees what planet is Pattaya on

[kaiyaibob]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

I think Pattaya is slowly slipping away......Even the last three High seasons have been quieter and quieter, I took a photo of the usually gridlocked corner at the start of Walking street from Beach road on the 23rd of December last year in the photo 2 songtaews both empty and no other traffic...never ever seen that before and for me an indicator in general just how quiet Pattaya was..one positive now when walking around town.. is I am a much more "sexy man" than before...my usual response... "mai mee customer uuuuuuh"

[toenail]

(My view point is after working near Pattaya and calling north Pattaya my home a total of ten years.) Observation: Less retired Germans, Brits, and Scadinavian couples and singles living here compared to when I first arrived due to the cost of living increase in Thailand, the Western economic downfall 8 years ago and airfare being expensive and less enjoyable to fly compared to twenty years ago. North American men visiting Pattaya for its beautiful women is not up in numbers such as 10...20...years ago since the popularity was by word of mouth from the Vietnam veterns painting a picture of paradise for single men. Now that folktale is replaced by internet reports about Pattaya painting it a picture of seediness, crime, and a city with a infrastructure of a poor developing country (lack of running water, raw sewage running into the bay, odorous fumes from the street sewers and jet ski scams). New clusters of tourists have replaced these Western visitors. New world travelors such as Indians and Chinese who spend a limited amount of cash into the Pattaya business circle who do not visit the go-go bars or locally run restaurants.The increasing invasion of the Russian tourist placed a positive twist with the tourist baht. Being more independent and coming here as families (or the Russian men bringing their own blond, blue eyed girlfriend) they patronized the travel agencies, locally run restaurants, tourist sites,spending money at the local shopping centers and even investing their savings purchasing one of the new condos mushrooming up in the city. But now with the value of the ruble being down 40%, these important consumers (not for the owners of go-go bars) are gone. Eventually, the Russian travelor will be back (10 years?); meanwhile more and more Chinese will be visiting Pattaya. As Americans would visit Europe with pacckaged bus tours 30..40 years ago and became more and more indepenent travelers, I feel the Chinese will become more independent world travelers once they become more confident that they can survive without their tour guide and the young generation that knows English and are certainly more computer savey will certainly avoid the bus tours and be independent travelers. Take only 5% Chinese that can afford to be a 5-star tourist and visit Thailand and that is a whopping number to support tourism in Thailand. The winds have shifted. Americans and Europeans have visited Thailand so Vietnam and Burma are the hot spots ; and the cost and hassle of flying has dampened the appetite to fly across the globe. As long there are entrepreneurs and the city can be serioius about improving its infrastructure ( which does not have a good track record) the city will adapt to changes.

[crickets]

Was in jomtien tonight and u could count the russians with your fingers. In the 5 years i have been there it was the quietest i have ever seen. A ghoast town.

[swissie]

Not often do I read thru 133 posts. Borders on masochism I know. But this way, I found a "Diamond among the rough".

Post 71 by "Tolley". I actually made a print of it. A first for me, as far as TVF is concerned.

Cheers.

[tropo]

I actually do appreciate the problems business owners have here with such issues. Sometimes, actually pretty often, you see a new venture and think ... these people are MORONS. They've already failed. It's like they've lost their calling which is giving lessons in what NOT to do.

You can't feel sorry for anyone opening a business here. It's pretty obvious few will do well considering the oversupply of just about any business you can think of. Just the other day, on here, a foreigner was asking about the viability of opening up a clothing shop for his girlfriend. Seriously? People have to ask?

But we, the consumers who don't need to make a living here, really benefit from this oversupply.

[smotherb]

I thought we were talking about Pattaya disappearing in 10 years not Italy or Spain's youth unemployment.........or did I skip a page, are we blaming the bar/business closures on Thai Youth unemployment now?? Hardly think so. Oh Well, back to the Thai Visa Forum, I seem to have migrated to a european one somwhere along the line.

He does however make a very good argument for countries not to adopt the Euro.

And, I was also directly responding to the previous posts which addressed world economies and youth unemployment in Spain and Italy. Not to worry, some just can't read more than a line or two without needing a refresher course.

[emiratesgooner]

I can't understand why such a question would be asked.

Pattaya - ghost town - ten years.

Really???

[Jingthing]

I can't understand why such a question would be asked.

Pattaya - ghost town - ten years.

Really???

To stimulate discussion, I suppose.

I guess it's theoretically possible: Ebola/tsunami/great earthquake/political disaster/nuclear event.

Global warming flooding it out? Well not in 10 years anyway.

[tropo]

I can't understand why such a question would be asked.

Pattaya - ghost town - ten years.

Really???

To stimulate discussion, I suppose.

I guess it's theoretically possible: Ebola/tsunami/great earthquake/political disaster/nuclear event.

Global warming flooding it out? Well not in 10 years anyway.

Quiet tourist periods will merely help to weed out the bad (unprofitable) businesses and services. lt will take time for this (recently) ex-fishing village to mature into a fully functioning city. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Most expats on this forum probably come from cities that have taken centuries or even millennia to mature, but they expect this overnight in Pattaya.

Personally, I don't want this to happen. I don't want Pattaya to become a mature city like we're familiar with in our home countries. I like it just the way it is. I enjoy the "wild west with a blend of modern" feel. When and if it does become a "normal" city, I'm out., because when that happens it will be too expensive.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I can't understand why such a question would be asked.

Pattaya - ghost town - ten years.

Really???

I doubt he meant it literally, in the sense of "being inhabited by ghosts." I think he meant "will it decline to the point of being a place tourists no longer want to visit." The problem, among others, is that tourists are very different in terms of what they want and what they think is good or bad. There really are people who can't see anything wrong with Pattaya-Jomtien. As long as they can drink themselves to oblivion w/ hookers (who they think love them, but actually can't stand them), they are happy. I am certainly not like that and see many things wrong with this place--all of them growing worse over time. Irregardless of what we think, it seems clear that lots of people from Bangkok want to escape that city and Pattaya-Jomtien is the place they are going. No matter how bad it is in Pattaya-Jomtien, it is much worse in Bangkok, IMHO.

[kaorop]

I can't understand why such a question would be asked.

Pattaya - ghost town - ten years.

Really???

Yeah we should all just post pictures of crickets chirping that'd get pages filled with interesting stuff

[tropo]

I can't understand why such a question would be asked.

Pattaya - ghost town - ten years.

Really???

I doubt he meant it literally, in the sense of "being inhabited by ghosts." I think he meant "will it decline to the point of being a place tourists no longer want to visit." The problem, among others, is that tourists are very different in terms of what they want and what they think is good or bad. There really are people who can't see anything wrong with Pattaya-Jomtien. As long as they can drink themselves to oblivion w/ hookers (who they think love them, but actually can't stand them), they are happy. I am certainly not like that and see many things wrong with this place--all of them growing worse over time. Irregardless of what we think, it seems clear that lots of people from Bangkok want to escape that city and Pattaya-Jomtien is the place they are going. No matter how bad it is in Pattaya-Jomtien, it is much worse in Bangkok, IMHO.

As an expat with options, why do you stay in a place you don't like? .. or if it is getting worse over time, do you have plans to leave soon? The world is your oyster - why waste valuable twilight years in a place you dislike.

I've been here 10 years now and most of the changes over that time make the place better from my point of view. Even lower low and high seasons work for me.

[loppylugs1]

It does take a period of time to say enough is enough,my case few years,but I would be gone now, but for the baggage,long time GF ,dogs etc. To just abandon them is heartless,taking them with me is an option which is now being actively explored

I just want to get the hell out of it and leave Thailand to the Thais (and Chinese)

[tropo]

It does take a period of time to say enough is enough,my case few years,but I would be gone now, but for the baggage,long time GF ,dogs etc. To just abandon them is heartless,taking them with me is an option which is now being actively explored

I just want to get the hell out of it and leave Thailand to the Thais (and Chinese)

.. and that's exactly what I would expect to hear from someone who lives here and doesn't like it.

I'm trying to understand the people who constantly moan about how bad it is here yet continue to stay. My guess is that they came for the girls, and once that wore off, or they got married, it wasn't the same anymore.

After 10 years there may have been some changes, but the essence of the place is exactly as it was 10 years ago, warts and all.

Edited August 6, 2015 by tropo

[konying]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

I think Pattaya is slowly slipping away......Even the last three High seasons have been quieter and quieter, I took a photo of the usually gridlocked corner at the start of Walking street from Beach road on the 23rd of December last year in the photo 2 songtaews both empty and no other traffic...never ever seen that before and for me an indicator in general just how quiet Pattaya was..one positive now when walking around town.. is I am a much more "sexy man" than before...my usual response... "mai mee customer uuuuuuh"

Its not only Pattaya, but all of Thailand, as prices have risen dramatically in the past 3 years(i guess 300 baht wage rise was the factor), while exchange rates also dropped(though on the up recently)

I think if baht keeps dropping, you might see an increase in tourist numbers, because it then becomes cheap destination as it once was.

[konying]

I can't understand why such a question would be asked.

Pattaya - ghost town - ten years.

Really???

I doubt he meant it literally, in the sense of "being inhabited by ghosts." I think he meant "will it decline to the point of being a place tourists no longer want to visit." The problem, among others, is that tourists are very different in terms of what they want and what they think is good or bad. There really are people who can't see anything wrong with Pattaya-Jomtien. As long as they can drink themselves to oblivion w/ hookers (who they think love them, but actually can't stand them), they are happy. I am certainly not like that and see many things wrong with this place--all of them growing worse over time. Irregardless of what we think, it seems clear that lots of people from Bangkok want to escape that city and Pattaya-Jomtien is the place they are going. No matter how bad it is in Pattaya-Jomtien, it is much worse in Bangkok, IMHO.

As an expat with options, why do you stay in a place you don't like? .. or if it is getting worse over time, do you have plans to leave soon? The world is your oyster - why waste valuable twilight years in a place you dislike.

I've been here 10 years now and most of the changes over that time make the place better from my point of view. Even lower low and high seasons work for me.

Every kid loves chocolate, but give this kid unlimited amount and love will wear off.

Pattaya is no different. First its fun with all the bling and attractions, Once one lives here for a while, you get use to it and become bored of it.

As a new arrival, all girls look sexy and easy to attract, after a while you get to know them all and they get to know you, so fun is gone.

GF or Wife, yes sure, but plenty of eye candy, so it makes it even harder.

Just like Loppylugs, i have too many dogs and cats and few businesses, making it almost impossible to move elsewhere, so i make the best out of it, by moving further and further away

[Anthony5]

It does take a period of time to say enough is enough,my case few years,but I would be gone now, but for the baggage,long time GF ,dogs etc. To just abandon them is heartless,taking them with me is an option which is now being actively explored

I just want to get the hell out of it and leave Thailand to the Thais (and Chinese)

.. and that's exactly what I would expect to hear from someone who lives here and doesn't like it.

I'm trying to understand the people who constantly moan about how bad it is here yet continue to stay. My guess is that they came for the girls, and once that wore off, or they got married, it wasn't the same anymore.

After 10 years there may have been some changes, but the essence of the place is exactly as it was 10 years ago, warts and all.

Well I didn't come here for the girls, haven't had a GF for years now, and wouldn't want one if she paid me. But I'm sick of the place, because it has changed a lot over the more than 2 decades I live here, and not to the better.

The problem is to find something that offers the same qualities for which I came here. I think I could go Cambodia or Laos, but it wouldn't make much changes in the pet peeves I have issues with in Thailand.

[magnacarta]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

I think Pattaya is slowly slipping away......Even the last three High seasons have been quieter and quieter, I took a photo of the usually gridlocked corner at the start of Walking street from Beach road on the 23rd of December last year in the photo 2 songtaews both empty and no other traffic...never ever seen that before and for me an indicator in general just how quiet Pattaya was..one positive now when walking around town.. is I am a much more "sexy man" than before...my usual response... "mai mee customer uuuuuuh"

Its not only Pattaya, but all of Thailand, as prices have risen dramatically in the past 3 years(i guess 300 baht wage rise was the factor), while exchange rates also dropped(though on the up recently)

I think if baht keeps dropping, you might see an increase in tourist numbers, because it then becomes cheap destination as it once was.

I sense a little bit of wishful thinking here,are you resident expats all blind.The place is a floc tank,the traffic is horendous,the beaches are dirty and unsafe.The Irish/English pubs are gone or way too expensive.There are no family attractions apart from the old tired in need of renovation places,yes I know about the new water theme park,how much time can you spend in there,not exactly Disney World.Same old defenders of the faith,thank god I do not live there,or Phuket.Oh come all ye faithful.

[konying]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

I think Pattaya is slowly slipping away......Even the last three High seasons have been quieter and quieter, I took a photo of the usually gridlocked corner at the start of Walking street from Beach road on the 23rd of December last year in the photo 2 songtaews both empty and no other traffic...never ever seen that before and for me an indicator in general just how quiet Pattaya was..one positive now when walking around town.. is I am a much more "sexy man" than before...my usual response... "mai mee customer uuuuuuh"

Its not only Pattaya, but all of Thailand, as prices have risen dramatically in the past 3 years(i guess 300 baht wage rise was the factor), while exchange rates also dropped(though on the up recently)

I think if baht keeps dropping, you might see an increase in tourist numbers, because it then becomes cheap destination as it once was.

I sense a little bit of wishful thinking here,are you resident expats all blind.The place is a floc tank,the traffic is horendous,the beaches are dirty and unsafe.The Irish/English pubs are gone or way too expensive.There are no family attractions apart from the old tired in need of renovation places,yes I know about the new water theme park,how much time can you spend in there,not exactly Disney World.Same old defenders of the faith,thank god I do not live there,or Phuket.Oh come all ye faithful.

Not sure about others, i am bored reading your diabolical drivel.

Not all of us poor enough to live in the bushes or Isaan, some of us can afford nice life style.

Beaches were always dirty, traffic was never great and current one created by the Chinese tour buses and tunnel construction, plenty of other bars besides Irish or English, not to mention some of us can afford drinks out of happy hour times.

Pattaya as a place to live has little to do with Pattaya as a place to visit.

Residents do not go swimming on the main beach and do not go to family attractions.

Tourists are attracted to certain things, which are still the same, just much more expansive.

[thaibeachlovers]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

I think Pattaya is slowly slipping away......Even the last three High seasons have been quieter and quieter, I took a photo of the usually gridlocked corner at the start of Walking street from Beach road on the 23rd of December last year in the photo 2 songtaews both empty and no other traffic...never ever seen that before and for me an indicator in general just how quiet Pattaya was..one positive now when walking around town.. is I am a much more "sexy man" than before...my usual response... "mai mee customer uuuuuuh"

Its not only Pattaya, but all of Thailand, as prices have risen dramatically in the past 3 years(i guess 300 baht wage rise was the factor), while exchange rates also dropped(though on the up recently)

I think if baht keeps dropping, you might see an increase in tourist numbers, because it then becomes cheap destination as it once was.

I sense a little bit of wishful thinking here,are you resident expats all blind.The place is a floc tank,the traffic is horendous,the beaches are dirty and unsafe.The Irish/English pubs are gone or way too expensive.There are no family attractions apart from the old tired in need of renovation places,yes I know about the new water theme park,how much time can you spend in there,not exactly Disney World.Same old defenders of the faith,thank god I do not live there,or Phuket.Oh come all ye faithful.

If you call wanting the families to **** off and leave Pattaya for the big boys wishfull thinking, count me in. It's only the push to make Pattaya attractive to families and rich tourists that has ruined it.

BTW traffic is bad anywhere in Thailand with more than two houses.

If you want to come to Pattaya for the beach . It's been polluted since there were enough people to need to send their faeces into the sea.