Students with pierced ears, visible tattoos to be barred from vocational schools

[scorecard]

I'm no fan of tattoos, but this policy is completely misguided. While I'm sure that tattoos are correlated with a delinquency to some extent, that is not sufficient reason to bar someone from an education. There are social categories (ethnicities, cultures, economic levels, etc.) in all countries for which the rate of delinquency is higher than average, and we don't discriminate on that basis.

But the worse part of this is that they have just closed another door to a group of young people whose options were already rather limited. Having lost the opportunity for an education because of an ill-considered tattoo on a visible part of their body, I can see more of these young people entering a life of crime that would have otherwise not been in the cards. The law of unintended consequences at work again....

IMHO one of the severe (and ignored) downsides of rampant capitalism is that a % get sidelined in all countries, and many of these folks become disillusioned with society.

They feel left out / ignored by the mainstream (whatever the mainstream is). The ultimate result, they and society at large suffers because some of these folks are unemployable. Drugs probably comes into the picture also. The welfare dependent sector of society in GB just one example.

All unacceptable in a thinking civil society.

Policies such as these just exacerbate the whole situation.

[Preman]

Yes, I know that it has all been said before, but here I am saying it again.

All politicians in most countries use issues, new regulations etc. to divert attention away from their own incapacity to truly create change in the areas that are important. For whatever reason, - they cannot! So, they employ diversionary tactics. It happens everywhere.

In the case of Military Rule.... seems to be more diversion!!!

However, in the case of Thailand this has become a daily tactic. Alcohol, Tattoos, smoking hookas, earings, blah blah blah.

Thailand has dug itself into a world scandal hole. The smart guys have left the country or do not want to be associated with the garbage.

Who is left to run the country?

Military who have never proven their tactics anywhere?

[sammygood]

does some governemental official have stakes in the beauty industry? high rates of tattoo removals ?

or is this kind of highly tattood people not interested in the first place in a "descent" education and like to be involved in less legal activities and have to tattoos to show everybody how tuff they are ... specially 10 on 1 action

[Shawn0001]

I struggle to believe that these Japanese companies will be so ignorant not to distinguish between the markings of the Yakuza and those of the Buddha.

[JonnyF]

With all the issues with the economy, political conflict, water management, human trafficking etc. I find it really strange that such attention is being given to issues like chairs on beaches, lottery tickets, how far from a school you can sell alcohol, and now the size and placement of ear-rings and tattoos.

Thailand needs to focus on the bigger picture right now, not keep getting distracted by these silly sideshows.

I really hope they can sort it out before they lose too much ground.

Different departments have different issues to contend with. They all have a job to do!

Prioritizing key issues is a trait of top level management.

Unless of course, you're trying to divert attention away from areas where you are failing.

For this department this is an issue. The report isn't coming from Prayuth it's coming from the department in charge of vocational schools hence it's about vocational schools not flooding or human trafficking.. You can twist logic as much as you want but these governmental departments still have a job to do.

This one came from an educational department. Others such as the lottery and deck chair removal were directives from the big man himself. My point was about the country as a whole. As I said, "Thailand needs to focus on the bigger picture".

The individual departments still have a job to do, but the department in charge of vocational schools should also be focusing on the bigger picture like raising the standard of the education offered to the students. Or removing corruption from their organizations. But instead they choose to demote groups of people to "night school" because of the jewellery they choose to wear. Focusing on the minutiae for the sake of a headline and their name in the paper. Ignoring the important issues that could actually move the country forward.

[duanebigsby]

I find it interesting the number of posters that either missed or are ignoring the qualifier "large ear-piercings and visable tattoos" and are basing their arguments on a different level of body modification. Whether you agree or not, tats will affect the type of jobs available to you.

The person getting a tattoo or piercing knows full well it may lower job opportunities.

It should be up to him, it's their choice and they shouldn't have the educational opportunity taken away.

These people are going to be motorbike mechanics and plumbers. Who cares if they get tattoos?

[timmyp]

I struggle to believe that these Japanese companies will be so ignorant not to distinguish between the markings of the Yakuza and those of the Buddha.

Of course they can tell the difference, but Japanese employers still lump all tattoos together in hiring. Attitudes are starting to change in Japan as they are everywhere. There are just so many people with tattoos now (even in Japan, which has been so strictly against tattoos). More employers are saying "visible tattoos", while before it was any tattoo, no matter how hidden. And public baths, swimming pools, and beaches, etc. are overlooking smaller tattoos. As things become more open, the conservatives are pushing back and trying to get more explicit no-tattoo policies, lumping any tattoo in with yakuza wabori.

The same attitude change was seen with long hair, and then later piercings. Soon it will seem silly that people cared about tattoos... youth will later push some other insignificant rule of society, the conservatives will cry out against it, and those attitudes will finally change too.

[Down the rabbit hole]

Alas just the Thai pooyay (whom everyone knows are 'good people' without exception, who 'cannot make a mistake' otherwise they wouldn't have been appointed as pooyay in the first place) trying to impose their idea of 'Thainess'. Just like the school uniforms at University(!) and iofficially sanctioned 'hazing' to instil respect for seniors.

It's similar to what the appalling 'Ministry of Culture' try to do every year.

God it's just awful what these dreadful people do to the Thai poonoi. All to get a bit of extra self-esteem.

[HooHaa]

how remarkably ignorant and backward thinking. im disgusted.

[mercman24]

great reply number 23 peed myself ,, well he did come from SusSEX,, OOPS, SORRY !!

[daoyai]

Probably a long sleeved shirt would cover most tats and be accepted, the ear plugs removed , the hole allowed to shrink and ... back to the airconditioner repair class. Remember the school is a business, you don't make money turning away students.

[fred Kubasa]

They should be barred everywhere including home !

[wabothai]

Girls with pierced ears accepted, boys not.

[bheard]

Someone is gonna have to learn how to use vernier calipers so as to measure holes in ears - large holes go that way and the small holes go this way . . . .

Maybe soon here in Thailand we'll hear of another hair brained scheme as has been suggested by a male in the Indonesian parliament - a virginity test - if you fail then you don't go to university (females of course, males can 'do' what and who they like. Hey, it's a muslim country). They already have that test for women wanting to join the police and the army . . .

[smotherb]

Makes perfect sense to me.

If your stupid enough to have tats your too stupid to be educated.

That should be extended to if you are dumb enough to wear long-sleeved shirts, ties, closed-toed shoes and socks, or jackets in Thailand; you're obviously far too stupid to be educated.

[skildpadden]

"Young people with large ear-piercings and tattoos are at risk of engaging in antisocial behaviour and violence". Yep, Winston Churchill, Teddy Roosevelt or King Christian 9 of Denmark were all antisocial people.

Tattoos or piercings do not make people antisocial, whereas social and home environment certainly contributes to the development of antisocial behavior, so denying them a chance of education, a structured life and (hopefully) find proper role models does not make any sense.

You cannot discriminate like this. Period. (Better) Education is the only way forward for this society and now you are taking away the very chance of avoiding antisocial behavior among these kids.

Edited August 6, 2015 by skildpadden

[Shawn0001]

I struggle to believe that these Japanese companies will be so ignorant not to distinguish between the markings of the Yakuza and those of the Buddha.

Of course they can tell the difference, but Japanese employers still lump all tattoos together in hiring. Attitudes are starting to change in Japan as they are everywhere. There are just so many people with tattoos now (even in Japan, which has been so strictly against tattoos). More employers are saying "visible tattoos", while before it was any tattoo, no matter how hidden. And public baths, swimming pools, and beaches, etc. are overlooking smaller tattoos. As things become more open, the conservatives are pushing back and trying to get more explicit no-tattoo policies, lumping any tattoo in with yakuza wabori.

The same attitude change was seen with long hair, and then later piercings. Soon it will seem silly that people cared about tattoos... youth will later push some other insignificant rule of society, the conservatives will cry out against it, and those attitudes will finally change too.

The point being, these Japanese companies are hiring Thai nationals within Thailand, they have to obey Thai law. Would it not make sense to outlaw this discrimination on religious grounds, seeing as tattooing in entwined within Thai Buddhism, and force Japanese to respect the culture of the country they are outsourcing to? Instead they choose to pander to Japan's out of date notion that Tattoos means mafia by branding a whole section of the youth as being potentially violent when they are merely trying to protect themselves.

[casualbiker]

lol. I'm sending a link of this to our son. He has a full sleeve tattoo and earrings, and is currently SELLING vocational & further education courses for a government-contracted agency in Australia. The company loves him and he does well BECAUSE his target market relates to him.

2015, Thailand .... get over it, it's what our future accountants and electricians look like.

How old is your son?

Do his earrings look like this?

Twenty-one. No fleshies but he does sometimes wear those long tapered things.

He does wear a shirt to class and work so if he only had the several sak yant he has on his back he'd be far less unruly and offensive.

So I'm guessing that his Tats are actually covered by the shirt he wears to work!

[Asheron]

This is no different from saying.

You are fat, therefore you cannot enter the cafeteria at certain times.

You are poor, therefore you cannot mix with the rich kids.

You are black, therefore you cannot go to certain schools.

You are white, therefore you cannot study hip hop.

You are Muslim, therefore you cannot study in a budhist school.

The list goes on ,of excuses the private education can give to stop a person from learning or teaching.

The ministry of private education needs a crash course in the laws that are well above them. Namely, the constitutional right to learn and academic freedoms. National education madra 24 ( 6 ), among dozens of other education protection laws.

I hope these kids March right on down to the constitutional court and file a complaint against opec for interfering in a persons right to equal education.

Being fat or muslim is a choice unlike "being" black och white is something you are born as. Just saying...

And if a private company says "nah, i don't want your business because of reason X" then they should be able to say just that. It's entirely different thing when it comes to public schools etc.

[Bluespunk]

They should be barred everywhere including home !

Why?

[Asheron]

Good idea. They need discipline in those schools and they know from experience that the thugs and troublemaker have tattoos and piercings. Force them to cover up and not flaunt their gangsterism. I seriously think that immigration should look twice at heavily tattooed foreigners trying to enter Thailand. Most criminals have tattoos, even though not every tattooed person is a criminal.

Most terrorists are muslim but not all muslims are terrorists.

[Shawn0001]

This is no different from saying.

You are fat, therefore you cannot enter the cafeteria at certain times.

You are poor, therefore you cannot mix with the rich kids.

You are black, therefore you cannot go to certain schools.

You are white, therefore you cannot study hip hop.

You are Muslim, therefore you cannot study in a budhist school.

The list goes on ,of excuses the private education can give to stop a person from learning or teaching.

The ministry of private education needs a crash course in the laws that are well above them. Namely, the constitutional right to learn and academic freedoms. National education madra 24 ( 6 ), among dozens of other education protection laws.

I hope these kids March right on down to the constitutional court and file a complaint against opec for interfering in a persons right to equal education.

Being fat or muslim is a choice unlike "being" black och white is something you are born as. Just saying...

And if a private company says "nah, i don't want your business because of reason X" then they should be able to say just that. It's entirely different thing when it comes to public schools etc.

Do you think that a private company should be able to say, "Nah, I don't want your business because you 'chose' to be a Muslim." ????

[casualbiker]

This is no different from saying.

You are fat, therefore you cannot enter the cafeteria at certain times.

You are poor, therefore you cannot mix with the rich kids.

You are black, therefore you cannot go to certain schools.

You are white, therefore you cannot study hip hop.

You are Muslim, therefore you cannot study in a budhist school.

The list goes on ,of excuses the private education can give to stop a person from learning or teaching.

The ministry of private education needs a crash course in the laws that are well above them. Namely, the constitutional right to learn and academic freedoms. National education madra 24 ( 6 ), among dozens of other education protection laws.

I hope these kids March right on down to the constitutional court and file a complaint against opec for interfering in a persons right to equal education.

Being fat or muslim is a choice unlike "being" black och white is something you are born as. Just saying...

And if a private company says "nah, i don't want your business because of reason X" then they should be able to say just that. It's entirely different thing when it comes to public schools etc.

They are not public schools.. Quote from the OP " Adisorn Sinprasong, secretary of the Association of Private Technological and Vocational Education Colleges,"

[chrisinth]

Makes perfect sense to me.

If your stupid enough to have tats your too stupid to be educated.

Yep, everyone falls into the same boat, should be no or little respect for anyone with a tattoo.

Well, maybe a little respect, just for those who maybe were not so stupid and had an education.

Winston Churchill for instance, i have a lot of respect for him. Although he only had an anchor tattooed on his forearm, his mother outdid him in this area.

Lady Randolph Churchill had an image of a snake wrapping around her wrist, which she slyly covered with a bracelet when desired.

Only mention these two as your forum name suggests you're English.

Shouldn't dis everyone who has/had tats......................

[casualbiker]

does some governemental official have stakes in the beauty industry? high rates of tattoo removals ?

or is this kind of highly tattood people not interested in the first place in a "descent" education and like to be involved in less legal activities and have to tattoos to show everybody how tuff they are ... specially 10 on 1 action

The OP is about private technical colleges.. " Adisorn Sinprasong, secretary of the Association of Private Technological and Vocational Education Colleges,"

[casualbiker]

Makes perfect sense to me.

If your stupid enough to have tats your too stupid to be educated.

Yep, everyone falls into the same boat, should be no or little respect for anyone with a tattoo.

Well, maybe a little respect, just for those who maybe were not so stupid and had an education.

Winston Churchill for instance, i have a lot of respect for him. Although he only had an anchor tattooed on his forearm, his mother outdid him in this area.

Lady Randolph Churchill had an image of a snake wrapping around her wrist, which she slyly covered with a bracelet when desired.

Only mention these two as your forum name suggests you're English.

Shouldn't dis everyone who has/had tats......................

So both wouldn't have "visible" tattoos then. So if still alive could attend one of these private technical colleges in Thailand!

[elgordo38]

Just combine it with the new alcohol ban.

Students with ear piercings or tatoos aren't allowed within 300 metres of a vocational college.

My g/f tells me that the ear piercings does not mean for regular ear rings only the ones with big holes that have hockey pucks stuck in them. Again the government is nipping around the edges but avoiding critical issues the meat of the matter so to speak. Lets get off of this Planes, Trains and Automobile mentality and deal with important issues. Infrastructure spending at the top of the list, better drought planning, help for the rice farmers(not handouts) pollution, garbage, and the list is endless. Things are slipping away.

[casualbiker]

Just combine it with the new alcohol ban.

Students with ear piercings or tatoos aren't allowed within 300 metres of a vocational college.

My g/f tells me that the ear piercings does not mean for regular ear rings only the ones with big holes that have hockey pucks stuck in them. Again the government is nipping around the edges but avoiding critical issues the meat of the matter so to speak. Lets get off of this Planes, Trains and Automobile mentality and deal with important issues. Infrastructure spending at the top of the list, better drought planning, help for the rice farmers(not handouts) pollution, garbage, and the list is endless. Things are slipping away.

Again please read the OP it has nothing to do with the government this is a group of private technical colleges.. " Adisorn Sinprasong, secretary of the Association of Private Technological and Vocational Education Colleges,"

It's amazing how few posters actually read past the title!

[ourmanflint]

I think this is a step in the right direction. If it discourages young kids from getting massive tattoos where everyone can see them, then I'm all for it. Personally I think tattoos are really ugly and make those that have them look unapproachable and unfriendly. There are other ways to show your individuality that are more subtle than a mahoosive celtic design running across half your body.

If places at colleges are at a premium why should they be wasted on individuals who are less likely to benefit from them. Employers have the absolute right to hire who they want, how someone looks is relevant to a company if they are representing that company to the public.

[ebonykap]

Back in the "good ol' days" when I was in management and had the responsibility of up to 300 staff, part of my job description was the hiring and firing of employees. I would NEVER employ staff with visible tattoos or body piercings. Why, you may ask? Well, besides being hideous to a large percentage of people (other staff and customers), it degraded the image of the organisation. Company policy was to allow body piercing, provided any visible would be removed during working hours. A maximum of 2 ear rings/studs was allowed. Initially, I hired 1 or 2 staff according to this policy to my regret. They continually "forgot" to remove the jewelry and it quickly became a nightmare to police at work. Subsequently, these people were subject to the 3 strikes rule and eventually had to find new employment elsewhere. Also, during their term of employment they had encouraged other staff members to get piercings, thus compounding the problem.

I still believe significant body piercings and tattoos limit employment opportunities. A neat appearance will appeal to almost 100% of employers, whereas someone who attends an interview with a nose ring, lip ring, a tongue stud and arms covered in tattoos is unlikely to get a second interview, regardless of their qualifications.