smutcakes Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time" It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted. But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it. I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with. Once or twice being challenged I've taken a post apart to the point even I felt sorry for the fellow who asked. It's too hard work and doesn't seem to give any impression in the poster of the post taken apart. So, may I suggest you just ask blind Freddy? Maybe it has no impression as you have taken nothing apart, just tying yourself in knots of inane mumblings which bores everyone to tears and makes or has no point..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time" It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted. But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it. I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with. Let the great uncle Rubl educate you its enough to make you cringe and skin crawl at the same time I know my limitation and in some cases I tend to favour a quick although somewhat drastic solution to those who harden in wrongdoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time" It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted. But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it. I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with. Once or twice being challenged I've taken a post apart to the point even I felt sorry for the fellow who asked. It's too hard work and doesn't seem to give any impression in the poster of the post taken apart. So, may I suggest you just ask blind Freddy? Maybe it has no impression as you have taken nothing apart, just tying yourself in knots of inane mumblings which bores everyone to tears and makes or has no point..... Blind Freddy could have seen what was happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time" It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted. But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it. I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with. What are you on about? Of course he can. He posts most of them... You seem to insinuate that I post obfuscation and half-truths, my dear Baboon. That's not nice and as you know totally incorrect. Till now it would seem that the NLA busy in an impeachment process is endangering the 'establishment' which some like to defend. Just like the "600 billion baht loss in RPPS" thread, a lot of nonsense trying to divert. A criminal fugitive being stripped of his police rank and never before we saw such diversions. No need to believe me, ask blind Freddy, Bodene's favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 No I am afraid it is you that is in error.In any event though all should have the right to speak it is a common error that one man's opinion is as good as another's.To believe otherwise would give equal ranking to the ignorant and the foolish.Talking to a few farmers means nothing even taking into account your limitations in communicating.Given the current repression it's not possible to have a credible opinion survey.But we do know the regime is terrified of free and fair elections.Not difficult to draw the relevant conclusions. While all voters want a better life for themselves and families, your analysis is wrong headed and old fashioned.Ordinary Thais are now generally very politicised and the weight you give to vote buying shows how badly informed and out of date you are. I don't blame you for your errors.These are common currency among some.If you can grasp that Thais have in the last decade become politically sophisticated that would be the first step to letting go of some of your naive misconceptions. They are not errors as they are people who I talk with on a daily and weekly basis. quote from you "In any event though all should have the right to speak it is a common error that one man's opinion is as good as another's.To believe otherwise would give equal ranking to the ignorant and the foolish." So who in your opinion has the right to decide which opinion is right, you, me, any other poster on TVF, Somchai down the road, politicians, the PM? Who! quote "While all voters want a better life for themselves and families, your analysis is wrong headed and old fashioned.Ordinary Thais are now generally very politicised and the weight you give to vote buying shows how badly informed and out of date you are." How many "ordinary Thais" do you speak with on a daily basis and how do YOU define who is ordinary or not? How do YOU know that "ordinary" Thais are politicised now? Have you done a survey, if so, where and when and across how many people? What were the questions? Have you published it. quote "I don't blame you for your errors.These are common currency among some.If you can grasp that Thais have in the last decade become politically sophisticated that would be the first step to letting go of some of your naive misconceptions." Thank you for not blaming me for my errors, but why are they errors? In your mind and opinion perhaps, but certainly not in mine. Can you show me anywhere where Thais have become more politically sophisticated? Perhaps in the cities but not that much in rural Thailand where the majority of Thais actually live. I don't have any naive misconceptions at least in my opinion, but then again I know myself a lot better than you do. It is your opinion against mine and as I said earlier my opinion and yours cxarry equal weight as does everybody else who posts their opinions here on TVF. The fact that most Thai people never read this forum and no Thai people care what we think should give you a clue as to what our collective opinions are worth in Thailand. In the politest possible way I would suggest your rambling and incoherent post is an excellent example of why opinions should not be given equal weight.You have the right to say what is on your mind even if as in this case it is not supported by evidence.You do not have the right to expect your musings will be taken seriously. The remarkable politicisation of ordinary Thais over the last 15 years or so is a matter of record,and accepted on all sides of the spectrum.The debate about populism recognises this.This phenomenon is associated with the demise of social deference, increasing prosperity and political exploitation - initially by Thaksin but increasingly by all parties. Whether Thais care very much or at all what expatriates ( or the sub sector TV represents ) is I agree debatable.However I don't understand why you think that is relevant to the discussion.Indeed your reference to it rather exemplifies the chaotic thought processes that lie behind your observations. You don't like the ramblings (your words) even though I was answering your post but you don't argue about it. Just blame me as if it is my fault. Why do I not have the right to expect my musings to be taken seriously? Just because YOU say so even though as usual you never answer my questions. quote "This phenomenon is associated with the demise of social deference, increasing prosperity and political exploitation - initially by Thaksin but increasingly by all parties." I disagree on inceasing properity though Thais can borrow far more money than before and are far deeper in personal debt than before. Thais have been exploited by ALL the political parties to my knowledge for at least 20 years and most probably long before that but I have no knowledge of that as it was before my time. quote "Whether Thais care very much or at all what expatriates ( or the sub sector TV represents ) is I agree debatable.However I don't understand why you think that is relevant to the discussion.Indeed your reference to it rather exemplifies the chaotic thought processes that lie behind your observations. How many Thai people do you personally know who read Thai visa? Among my family and friends I don't know of any who read it. When I have brought up the subject of Thai politics I have been gently and politely reminded that it is not really any of my business and I do agree with them 100%. Why do YOU think it is any of nyour business to assume that you know better and more than the Thai people who have lived here for many years and have far more rights here than you or I. You seem to feel that you have the right to tell me what I should or shouldn't do or believe in when in reality you have no rights at all. You persistently insult me though you have no real idea who I am or what I know and it is starting to annoy me. Keep personalities out of it and just answer the questions I ask, or is that too difficult? I have reponded to your posts several times asking for clarification and not once have you actually answered a single question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodene Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) "Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time" It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted. But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it. I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with. What are you on about? Of course he can. He posts most of them... Really? Where? But please don't ask me to interpret the usual rambling and meandering, it's not the easiest thing in the world to figure out what he means most of the time. Edited August 9, 2015 by Bodene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdoglover Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) How are the flame wars going? Just to remind everyone, the current draft charter, which should represent the pinnacle of thought on the roles and responsibilities of the National Assembly, makes no provision for impeachment or any other action by the House or Senate against a former MP. I suspect the previous charter, now nullified, makes no such provision either. There is good reason for limiting the legislature in this way. Imagine the vendettas. At any rate, the NLA is out of bounds. And dribbling for the goal. It's a farce. Edited August 9, 2015 by phoenixdoglover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 How are the flame wars going? Just to remind everyone, the current draft charter, which should represent the pinnacle of thought on the roles and responsibilities of the National Assembly, makes no provision for impeachment or any other action by the House or Senate against a former MP. I suspect the previous charter, now nullified, makes no such provision either. There is good reason for limiting the legislature in this way. Imagine the vendettas. At any rate, the NLA is out of bounds. And dribbling for the goal. It's a farce. The current draft charter has no relation with the current case. You suspect impeachment is not in the 2014 Interim Charter which might be correct, but the impeachments are related to possible offences under the 2008 charter. The 'at any rate' shows you let your opinion get in the way of reason. As such this is no flame, just an observation that the last few days a few posters have tried their utmost to prove to be experts on Thai law and failed somewhat miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time" It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted. But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it. I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with. What are you on about? Of course he can. He posts most of them... Really? Where? But please don't ask me to interpret the usual rambling and meandering, it's not the easiest thing in the world to figure out what he means most of the time. That'll be because he doesn't mean anything. All he does is browbeat with rhetorical questions regarding unimportant details about things that don't matter in the hope of boring the thread to a standstill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 How are the flame wars going? Just to remind everyone, the current draft charter, which should represent the pinnacle of thought on the roles and responsibilities of the National Assembly, makes no provision for impeachment or any other action by the House or Senate against a former MP. I suspect the previous charter, now nullified, makes no such provision either. There is good reason for limiting the legislature in this way. Imagine the vendettas. At any rate, the NLA is out of bounds. And dribbling for the goal. It's a farce. The current draft charter has no relation with the current case. You suspect impeachment is not in the 2014 Interim Charter which might be correct, but the impeachments are related to possible offences under the 2008 charter. The 'at any rate' shows you let your opinion get in the way of reason. As such this is no flame, just an observation that the last few days a few posters have tried their utmost to prove to be experts on Thai law and failed somewhat miserably. I have heard it all now, this coming from you of all people. Proof if anymore was needed that you are just trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodene Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) and that's why America has this hymn "God (please) bless America" ? It may surprise you, but we're discussing the Thai government here. What may seem nuts to you for whatever reasons is simply application of laws, even here in Thailand. it may surprise you that people refer to other countries from time to time while discussing politics in Thailand. As for laws in Thailand, ah, but that is the point, isn't it, under what law are these MPs to be impeached? Get real rubl, this isn't about 'application of laws'. There is no law that allows the current group to impeach the last group... As a side note, you should also figure out some time that when a court in Thailand says a law passed by the legislature is not constitutional, that does not mean that the legislature has committed a crime... The crime, as determined by the Constitution Court, was 'trying to overthrow the democratic system of government with the King as Head of State'. or words to that effect. All a bit contrived really, just one carefully considered step on the road to a coup d'etat. And I believe they knew it. Edited August 10, 2015 by Bodene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodene Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it. I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with. What are you on about? Of course he can. He posts most of them... Really? Where? But please don't ask me to interpret the usual rambling and meandering, it's not the easiest thing in the world to figure out what he means most of the time. That'll be because he doesn't mean anything. All he does is browbeat with rhetorical questions regarding unimportant details about things that don't matter in the hope of boring the thread to a standstill. That's a coincidence, that's what I have come to think as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 and that's why America has this hymn "God (please) bless America" ? It may surprise you, but we're discussing the Thai government here. What may seem nuts to you for whatever reasons is simply application of laws, even here in Thailand. it may surprise you that people refer to other countries from time to time while discussing politics in Thailand. As for laws in Thailand, ah, but that is the point, isn't it, under what law are these MPs to be impeached? Get real rubl, this isn't about 'application of laws'. There is no law that allows the current group to impeach the last group... As a side note, you should also figure out some time that when a court in Thailand says a law passed by the legislature is not constitutional, that does not mean that the legislature has committed a crime... The crime, as determined by the Constitution Court, was 'trying to overthrow the democratic system of government with the King as Head of State'. or words to that effect. All a bit contrived really, just one carefully considered step on the road to a coup d'etat. And I believe they knew it. That's a pretty serious charge but somehow seem heavy handed. What the 248 ex-MPs did was to amend the constitution to make the senate a fully elected chamber. That seem to be in line with the the democratic value of universal suffrage and in line with the 1997 constitution which the military shredded to pieces and force acceptance of appointed senators. So you mean the 1997 constitution was an attempt to overthrow the democratic system.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 and that's why America has this hymn "God (please) bless America" ? It may surprise you, but we're discussing the Thai government here. What may seem nuts to you for whatever reasons is simply application of laws, even here in Thailand. it may surprise you that people refer to other countries from time to time while discussing politics in Thailand. As for laws in Thailand, ah, but that is the point, isn't it, under what law are these MPs to be impeached? Get real rubl, this isn't about 'application of laws'. There is no law that allows the current group to impeach the last group... As a side note, you should also figure out some time that when a court in Thailand says a law passed by the legislature is not constitutional, that does not mean that the legislature has committed a crime... The crime, as determined by the Constitution Court, was 'trying to overthrow the democratic system of government with the King as Head of State'. or words to that effect. All a bit contrived really, just one carefully considered step on the road to a coup d'etat. And I believe they knew it. you are right about the contrived logic to support the ruling, on the other hand, the ruling was that the amendment was unconstitutional. the ruling was not that the MPs had broken the law. In fact, if anything, it was the opposite, as the same ruling refused the request by the opposition to dissolve the PTP party. So the posters claiming this to be about 'applying the law' are just making stuff up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Wow, the votes coming on Friday already... I'm so excited !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodene Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 and that's why America has this hymn "God (please) bless America" ? It may surprise you, but we're discussing the Thai government here. What may seem nuts to you for whatever reasons is simply application of laws, even here in Thailand. it may surprise you that people refer to other countries from time to time while discussing politics in Thailand. As for laws in Thailand, ah, but that is the point, isn't it, under what law are these MPs to be impeached? Get real rubl, this isn't about 'application of laws'. There is no law that allows the current group to impeach the last group... As a side note, you should also figure out some time that when a court in Thailand says a law passed by the legislature is not constitutional, that does not mean that the legislature has committed a crime... The crime, as determined by the Constitution Court, was 'trying to overthrow the democratic system of government with the King as Head of State'. or words to that effect. All a bit contrived really, just one carefully considered step on the road to a coup d'etat. And I believe they knew it. you are right about the contrived logic to support the ruling, on the other hand, the ruling was that the amendment was unconstitutional. the ruling was not that the MPs had broken the law. In fact, if anything, it was the opposite, as the same ruling refused the request by the opposition to dissolve the PTP party. So the posters claiming this to be about 'applying the law' are just making stuff up... As usual it seems, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodene Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 it may surprise you that people refer to other countries from time to time while discussing politics in Thailand. and that's why America has this hymn "God (please) bless America" ? It may surprise you, but we're discussing the Thai government here. What may seem nuts to you for whatever reasons is simply application of laws, even here in Thailand. As for laws in Thailand, ah, but that is the point, isn't it, under what law are these MPs to be impeached? Get real rubl, this isn't about 'application of laws'. There is no law that allows the current group to impeach the last group... As a side note, you should also figure out some time that when a court in Thailand says a law passed by the legislature is not constitutional, that does not mean that the legislature has committed a crime... The crime, as determined by the Constitution Court, was 'trying to overthrow the democratic system of government with the King as Head of State'. or words to that effect. All a bit contrived really, just one carefully considered step on the road to a coup d'etat. And I believe they knew it. That's a pretty serious charge but somehow seem heavy handed. What the 248 ex-MPs did was to amend the constitution to make the senate a fully elected chamber. That seem to be in line with the the democratic value of universal suffrage and in line with the 1997 constitution which the military shredded to pieces and force acceptance of appointed senators. So you mean the 1997 constitution was an attempt to overthrow the democratic system.....? The logic seems reasonable but when the 1997 Constitution was being built, nobody had orders to use the judiciary to foil the democratic working of an elected government. That's the difference, In my opinion there should be no doubt as to the extent of the organised treason. Nor who was ultimately responsible for it. The ignorati will disagree of course but the evidence seems very compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Anyway, on Friday the NLA will vote on whether or not to impeach 248 former MPs for a 'non-crime' of illegally modifying the constitution. At least some posters seem to think that an activity deemed illegal needs nothing more than a 'thank you, MPs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Anyway, on Friday the NLA will vote on whether or not to impeach 248 former MPs for a 'non-crime' of illegally modifying the constitution. At least some posters seem to think that an activity deemed illegal needs nothing more than a 'thank you, MPs'. I would have thanked them for making the senate 100% elected. The rest of your comment is just blatant mis-representation of other people's posts and of that which actually happened. Edited August 11, 2015 by tbthailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Anyway, on Friday the NLA will vote on whether or not to impeach 248 former MPs for a 'non-crime' of illegally modifying the constitution. At least some posters seem to think that an activity deemed illegal needs nothing more than a 'thank you, MPs'. I would have thanked them for making the senate 100% elected. The rest of your comment is just blatant mis-representation of other people's posts and of that which actually happened. 'blatant misrepresentation'? An illegal act is described by some as 'nothing serious', 'not prosecutable', 'nonsense' and you tell me I mis-represent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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