FangFerang Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) The far left and the far right are...far out. Trump's just pandering to the teabaggers who are still whimpering that McCain didn't "take it to him!" as one Rush Limbaugh drooled at a conference during the last clown show. Edited August 17, 2015 by Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Anchor babies are authorized by the US Supreme Court. Does Trump understand to undo that, he has to pass a constitutional amendment or get the US Supreme Court to reverse itself Yes, he has stated he wants to call a constitutional convention to alter the 14th Amendment. It's long past time that this jurisprudential nonsense be done away with, once and for all. The entire 14th Amendment should be scrapped, IMHO. a constitutional convention to alter the 14th Amendment. The rightwing has been calling for a constitutional convention for decades without success. The vast majority of Americans see no need of any such thing. Americans don't want a constitutional convention which is why no candidate for president has advocated it and congress has done nothing toward having any such thing. The wound up activist right would get its delegates elected to a constitutional convention to torch the Bill of Rights in no time at all. One outcome would be that immigration would be criminalised which is the opposite of the guarantees of the 14th Amendment. The farther Trump and the Republican party go into this election campaign, the farther both together race to the fringe and the deeper they go in to the abyss of defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 With issue of his Illegal Alien policy as posted Trump will be at 35% of the Poll share of all Republican Candidates within a week and the rest will be at single digit And it's going to put Bush and Fiorina right in the crosshairs, because both of them support amnesty. There is going to be a clear choice. Jeb Bush is already at 9% down from 14% only two weeks ago ... Fiorina has about 4% or so ... To be in the cross hairs one has to be in the view of the telescope and not by looking through the wrong end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Actually Trump could work with Congress to write and pass law defining the misused 14th amendment to end birthright citizenship, as a child of illegal immigrant parents aren't soverign to USA which lacks jurisdiction..So not a citizen. That would force SCOTUS to either overule law or let it stand. If the overruled that, then an Amendment, but as most other nations have done, no rights just for being across the line. You lack understanding of constitutional law. A new law would just be ruled unconstitutional. Show me one case where the Supreme Court has overturned a decision on interpretation of the Constitution that has stood for over 100 years. The only way to do this is a constitutional amendment, and that's not going to happen, particularly because the 14th amendment was enacted to protect the rights of African-Americans after the Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Anchor babies are authorized by the US Supreme Court. Does Trump understand to undo that, he has to pass a constitutional amendment or get the US Supreme Court to reverse itself Yes, he has stated he wants to call a constitutional convention to alter the 14th Amendment. It's long past time that this jurisprudential nonsense be done away with, once and for all. The entire 14th Amendment should be scrapped, IMHO. Some Republicans have called for this, but not Trump. Trump has no policies and no platform. Go to his website and show me where he has proposed a constitutional convention. Google it - I already did - and you come up with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Amazing how the teabaggers so fiercely defend the constitution - until there are bits of it that stop their inherent, rabid racism. Hypocrites one and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabruce Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 If all the illegal immigrants had been deported or turned away then America would be Canada... Which would make the world a much better place having America be Canada's twin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjunadawn Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In most of the posts above I see resentment against the illegal immigrants in US. Obviously most of these posters are Americans. Now, gentlemen, may I ask you to make a mental effort? Just imagine that all these illegal migrants are Muslims! With all due respect, those illegal migrants you are complaining about may well be a burden on your social structure. But I never heard of any 'Latinos' building Mosques, calling for Jihad, killing Americans, demanding Sharia Laws, raping any female without a burka, blowing anything up or just violently demonstrating against anything! Cutting it short - why not shut up because you have lesser problems than Europeans? As to Trump - I considered him an idiot from the start. Him saying anything will not change my view. My view is irrelevant since I'm not an American. Him being an idiot will not stop Americans voting him in. Congrats in advance! Of the things you never heard of certainly killing and raping are the most horrible problems; but on these two examples you are wrong. I actually believe your point is valid, but you are incorrect that many Americans are not being brutally raped and murdered by people invading from other countries. I did a quick check and the numbers of illegals in US compared to entire EU are in the tens of times more (a cursory glance at the graphs- difference between hundreds of thousands and millions). If I had to choose the destruction of my nation I would choose the Latino hoards over burkas and rusty blades; this is, after all, what you are proposing, and because all can agree one sucks so much more we thus have little right to bitch- right? Wrong! Its a false choice. Both suck! The real story in your above post and my response is why are these masses of people being enticed into our borders? The fundamental conditions of the remainder of the world have hardly changed enough since 2000 to warrant such redistribution of peoples. So, my conclusion: If you cant successfully redistribute the money redistribute the people. I am utterly convinced the massive movements are by design. Note:The 14 Amendment is a stalking horse. It was only ever intended for the African American population in the US. It is an abuse of intent to morph it into the caricature of a Right it has become. If one wants to have a valid legislation of this issue then debate the common law issue underpinning the deceit- of the blood or soil? Born of blood or born of soil. The 14th amendment did not yet envision this NWO Trojan horse. Our hoards would, by the standards of those days, be considered an invasion. Whereas our laws are derivative common law you do not see jus soli being applied in the EU today. Its some blend of jus soli and jus sanguinis- born of soil or blood, but with restrictions. The US 14 Amendment is then novel compared to our legal heritage, and thus suspect for inventing new common law. It is to this confusing circle of born to blood or born to soil that the enigma of the Requirement to the Office of the President takes place regarding natural birth, etc. Are we really to expect that this enigmatic or debatable prescription in the US constitution for our president is, for illegal aliens, quite clear- have a baby, its a citizen! But for the oath of office meaning still remains opaque? Nonsense. This is all sleight of hand, disingenuous argument. Jus soli arguments for illegals birthing on US soil intentionally married the 14th Amendment and co opted it. American blacks should be outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobb Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Well said Howard. That is why you might be are next President! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 deportation has a nasty smell to it mr Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 If all the illegal immigrants had been deported or turned away then America would be Canada... If there were a really spectacular, massive tectonic plate shift would we see the same effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli42 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I never thought of Trump as being a strong marketer. Maybe it's not him, maybe it's his campaign people. This really is wonderful stuff, the politically right leaning are eating up. It's unlikely he believes any of the nonsense he is spewing. He knows Hispanics will never vote Repubican so why bother catering to them. He comes across as a nut job but he is serving up a clear, unequivocal stand on things that matter to a significant segment of Republican voters. He is too extreme to ever be President. He also has the F*** Y** money to fund his own campaign so he can't be controlled by the likes of the anti christ Koch brothers. All reasons why he scares the crap out of the Repubican party. A great marketer with balls ... he is wasted in politics. He is the only reason the democrats will win the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I never thought of Trump as being a strong marketer. Maybe it's not him, maybe it's his campaign people. This really is wonderful stuff, the politically right leaning are eating up. It's unlikely he believes any of the nonsense he is spewing. He knows Hispanics will never vote Repubican so why bother catering to them. He comes across as a nut job but he is serving up a clear, unequivocal stand on things that matter to a significant segment of Republican voters. He is too extreme to ever be President. He also has the F*** Y** money to fund his own campaign so he can't be controlled by the likes of the anti christ Koch brothers. All reasons why he scares the crap out of the Repubican party. A great marketer with balls ... he is wasted in politics. He is the only reason the democrats will win the election. Trump is polling quite well with Hispanics -- if you go check the record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hard to believe that Trump could become the Republican nominee. The Republicans do need new blood after the Bush disasters and Jeb isn't new blood. However if you want to guarantee another disaster then Trump is your man. However it is very entertaining to see him strut his stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) In most of the posts above I see resentment against the illegal immigrants in US. Obviously most of these posters are Americans. Now, gentlemen, may I ask you to make a mental effort? Just imagine that all these illegal migrants are Muslims! With all due respect, those illegal migrants you are complaining about may well be a burden on your social structure. But I never heard of any 'Latinos' building Mosques, calling for Jihad, killing Americans, demanding Sharia Laws, raping any female without a burka, blowing anything up or just violently demonstrating against anything! Cutting it short - why not shut up because you have lesser problems than Europeans? As to Trump - I considered him an idiot from the start. Him saying anything will not change my view. My view is irrelevant since I'm not an American. Him being an idiot will not stop Americans voting him in. Congrats in advance! Of the things you never heard of certainly killing and raping are the most horrible problems; but on these two examples you are wrong. I actually believe your point is valid, but you are incorrect that many Americans are not being brutally raped and murdered by people invading from other countries. I did a quick check and the numbers of illegals in US compared to entire EU are in the tens of times more (a cursory glance at the graphs- difference between hundreds of thousands and millions). If I had to choose the destruction of my nation I would choose the Latino hoards over burkas and rusty blades; this is, after all, what you are proposing, and because all can agree one sucks so much more we thus have little right to bitch- right? Wrong! Its a false choice. Both suck! The real story in your above post and my response is why are these masses of people being enticed into our borders? The fundamental conditions of the remainder of the world have hardly changed enough since 2000 to warrant such redistribution of peoples. So, my conclusion: If you cant successfully redistribute the money redistribute the people. I am utterly convinced the massive movements are by design. Note:The 14 Amendment is a stalking horse. It was only ever intended for the African American population in the US. It is an abuse of intent to morph it into the caricature of a Right it has become. If one wants to have a valid legislation of this issue then debate the common law issue underpinning the deceit- of the blood or soil? Born of blood or born of soil. The 14th amendment did not yet envision this NWO Trojan horse. Our hoards would, by the standards of those days, be considered an invasion. Whereas our laws are derivative common law you do not see jus soli being applied in the EU today. Its some blend of jus soli and jus sanguinis- born of soil or blood, but with restrictions. The US 14 Amendment is then novel compared to our legal heritage, and thus suspect for inventing new common law. It is to this confusing circle of born to blood or born to soil that the enigma of the Requirement to the Office of the President takes place regarding natural birth, etc. Are we really to expect that this enigmatic or debatable prescription in the US constitution for our president is, for illegal aliens, quite clear- have a baby, its a citizen! But for the oath of office meaning still remains opaque? Nonsense. This is all sleight of hand, disingenuous argument. Jus soli arguments for illegals birthing on US soil intentionally married the 14th Amendment and co opted it. American blacks should be outraged. The US 14 Amendment is then novel compared to our legal heritage, and thus suspect for inventing new common law. The 14th Amendment is consistent with precepts of the European Enlightenment that are fundamental to the Constitution, which makes the provisions of the Amendment easily recognizable to Americans today. Indeed, SCOTUS has ruled the 14th Amendment applies the First Amendment to the states. This means the language, "Congress shall make no law" tells state governments they are also prohibited violating the First Amendment and its protections. Until then, this had not been the case. SCOTUS applying the First Amendment through the 14th is the very Western constitutional doctrine of incorporation and it expanded our liberties and freedoms. SCOTUS has recognized the 14th Amendment establishes each person residing in the United States as a legal person. Until the 14th Amemdment this had not been so. Now the Republicans and the right want to revert to the previous law. Nullification. The Republicans and the right want to remove the legal standing of certain immigrants they don't like so that the trains might roll. And then keep rolling because there are other people the rightwing does not like. The 14th Amendment provides equal protection of the laws to everyone residing in the United States, citizen or not. Anything less requires a new amendment to the Constitution. That would require 38 states, two-thirds of the congress, i.e., 2/3 of the 435 members of the US House and 2/3 of 100 members of the US Senate. The far out right are political light years away from a successful struggle in these respects. It is nonetheless Their Struggle as presented in their assorted writings. Edited August 17, 2015 by Publicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farangmick Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hey Yanks. You are the ones who asked for the world's huddled masses to come to the US. Don,t moan when they take you up on it. You're welcome to those in Calais as well, and the Greeks probably wouldn't mind you taking them from Kos and Lesbos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandtee Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Trump obviously doesn't realise that he is an illegal immigrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinot Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I never thought of Trump as being a strong marketer. Maybe it's not him, maybe it's his campaign people. This really is wonderful stuff, the politically right leaning are eating up. It's unlikely he believes any of the nonsense he is spewing. He knows Hispanics will never vote Repubican so why bother catering to them. He comes across as a nut job but he is serving up a clear, unequivocal stand on things that matter to a significant segment of Republican voters. He is too extreme to ever be President. He also has the F*** Y** money to fund his own campaign so he can't be controlled by the likes of the anti christ Koch brothers. All reasons why he scares the crap out of the Repubican party. A great marketer with balls ... he is wasted in politics. He is the only reason the democrats will win the election. The only reason the democrats will win, huh? No, this is a group effort. They're all terrible unelectable candidates. Trump stands for racism and misogyny, two of the cornerstones of the Republican party. He panders to the base which still loves that racist crap. All of the Republican candidates agree on those two points and that's what will do in the radical right the Republican party has become. No middle ground for these candidates. In fact, the base wants them further out there. It's the party of, "I got mine, screw you." Listening to these candidates and reading the posts here on TV, there is one thing you hear over and over again. Fear. Fear the rapists. Fear the country is being taken over by XXX (name one). Fear the Muslims. Fear the gays. Fear. Fear. Fear. That's why they love their guns. Shoot everything. IT'S CRAZYNESS. Paranoia runs deep in the Republican party and the thing they fear the most...change. That's why they're called conservative. The party is so radicalized at this point, no sane candidate can possibly emerge. This election is over. What remains to be seen is, can the Democrats take back both houses of Congress so that government can function again. Do something (anything) besides debate Obamacare and Roe v. Wade. It's a long time till the election and when you've got Huckabee and Trump opening their pie holes, saying ridiculous shit every few days, just sit back and enjoy the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCer Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In most of the posts above I see resentment against the illegal immigrants in US. Obviously most of these posters are Americans. Now, gentlemen, may I ask you to make a mental effort? Just imagine that all these illegal migrants are Muslims! With all due respect, those illegal migrants you are complaining about may well be a burden on your social structure. But I never heard of any 'Latinos' building Mosques, calling for Jihad, killing Americans, demanding Sharia Laws, raping any female without a burka, blowing anything up or just violently demonstrating against anything! Cutting it short - why not shut up because you have lesser problems than Europeans? As to Trump - I considered him an idiot from the start. Him saying anything will not change my view. My view is irrelevant since I'm not an American. Him being an idiot will not stop Americans voting him in. Congrats in advance! Of the things you never heard of certainly killing and raping are the most horrible problems; but on these two examples you are wrong. I actually believe your point is valid, but you are incorrect that many Americans are not being brutally raped and murdered by people invading from other countries. I did a quick check and the numbers of illegals in US compared to entire EU are in the tens of times more (a cursory glance at the graphs- difference between hundreds of thousands and millions). If I had to choose the destruction of my nation I would choose the Latino hoards over burkas and rusty blades; this is, after all, what you are proposing, and because all can agree one sucks so much more we thus have little right to bitch- right? Wrong! Its a false choice. Both suck! The real story in your above post and my response is why are these masses of people being enticed into our borders? The fundamental conditions of the remainder of the world have hardly changed enough since 2000 to warrant such redistribution of peoples. So, my conclusion: If you cant successfully redistribute the money redistribute the people. I am utterly convinced the massive movements are by design. Note:The 14 Amendment is a stalking horse. It was only ever intended for the African American population in the US. It is an abuse of intent to morph it into the caricature of a Right it has become. If one wants to have a valid legislation of this issue then debate the common law issue underpinning the deceit- of the blood or soil? Born of blood or born of soil. The 14th amendment did not yet envision this NWO Trojan horse. Our hoards would, by the standards of those days, be considered an invasion. Whereas our laws are derivative common law you do not see jus soli being applied in the EU today. Its some blend of jus soli and jus sanguinis- born of soil or blood, but with restrictions. The US 14 Amendment is then novel compared to our legal heritage, and thus suspect for inventing new common law. It is to this confusing circle of born to blood or born to soil that the enigma of the Requirement to the Office of the President takes place regarding natural birth, etc. Are we really to expect that this enigmatic or debatable prescription in the US constitution for our president is, for illegal aliens, quite clear- have a baby, its a citizen! But for the oath of office meaning still remains opaque? Nonsense. This is all sleight of hand, disingenuous argument. Jus soli arguments for illegals birthing on US soil intentionally married the 14th Amendment and co opted it. American blacks should be outraged. Thanks, arjunadawn, for a very detailed discourse. Any irony or sarcasm aside - it went well over my head. And it is not your fault. I really know very little of US, its history, its politics etc. About 10 years back I decided to visit US for the first time. Perhaps my choice was wrong - or I cared more about climate - but I decided to spend 3 weeks in Florida and 3 weeks in California. As mentioned my education in anything related to US was very limited. Therefore the impressions I brought out are very intuitive and may be wrong. Please, keep this in mind. Besides, my visit to US was cut short by my own decision. Since I didn't like what I saw I hopped off to Mexico to see in total Acapulco, Guadalajara and Cancun. In both California and Florida I observed many Mexicans, Blacks (Afro-Americans, Negroes - take your pick) and Whites. My impressions: Most Blacks in the streets of L-A and Miami (I did see smaller towns too) hate US. To the point of not even willing to speak American English. And this is after about 10 generations being Americans. And they are aggressively confrontational to Whites. Most Latinos I saw in the streets and shops of Florida and California are friendly! Many speak broken English, but their kids are well dressed, neat and speak better English than parents - go to school (?) and willing to learn (?). However most Mexicans I saw in Mexico are very negative about 'gringoes'. Most Whites I saw in the streets and shops of L-A or Miami are 'taking care'! Being outwardly friendly they are slapping you on the shoulder at the same time trying to gain something either selling you an idea, an unwanted item or a needed one at an inflated price. I did not like these White Americans off the street. BTW, I admit that most people I am talking about are not all Americans. Anyway, to come back to the topic - Trump as a candidate, what he says he will do, his personality etc. - I do not and can not know him. What I feel about him, my impression of him - I wouldn't trust this uncouth old pirate to walk my dog out. And I do trust my feelings, my impressions and intuition. But as I said before - I trust Americans to make the worst possible choice, as almost always they do. arjunadawn, reading your last paragraph about Requirements to the Office how come Obama actually became elected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 The lunatic right are so funny. The consitution is so precious. Until it's not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 If Trump objects to anchor babies who were born from illegal immigrants, I wonder if he disagrees with the acceptance of newborns as American citizens whose parents are legal foreign tourists? There is a whole cottage industry in America called maternity tourism that brings pregnant wealthy women foreigners who are largely Chinese to America to give birth to their babes. When they leave the US, the babies have an American passport and social security card. When the Chinese-Americans become adults, they can return to the USA as citizens and sponsor their Chinese parents to join them. This gives wealthy Chinese an escape route from China over any health, economic and political concerns. Currently, the only legal action the USA can take against such maternity programs is to deport pregnant foreign women in violation of their visa applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Anchor babies are authorized by the US Supreme Court. Does Trump understand to undo that, he has to pass a constitutional amendment or get the US Supreme Court to reverse itself Yes, he has stated he wants to call a constitutional convention to alter the 14th Amendment. It's long past time that this jurisprudential nonsense be done away with, once and for all. The entire 14th Amendment should be scrapped, IMHO. a constitutional convention to alter the 14th Amendment. The rightwing has been calling for a constitutional convention for decades without success. The vast majority of Americans see no need of any such thing. Americans don't want a constitutional convention which is why no candidate for president has advocated it and congress has done nothing toward having any such thing. The wound up activist right would get its delegates elected to a constitutional convention to torch the Bill of Rights in no time at all. One outcome would be that immigration would be criminalised which is the opposite of the guarantees of the 14th Amendment. The farther Trump and the Republican party go into this election campaign, the farther both together race to the fringe and the deeper they go in to the abyss of defeat. There is a strong move for a Convention of the States which is different than a Constitutional Conventions as is conventionally / classically known... Thirty four states in agreement by resolution of their Legislatures can call the Convention... And since Republicans and many Conservative Republicans control the greater majority of the states - this is entirely possible. And it circumvents a run away Convention because the ratification of any changes is also by the states and again Republicans and Conservatives predominate and would strike undesirable changes - thus netting only changes that Republicans and Conservatives want... 555 Plus as one poster already stated - states one after another can defy the rule -- there is already a state refusing to issue birth certificates to illegal aliens babies. - Texas. This States Rights 10th amendment issue would keep the courts running for years and no birth certificates issue if this caught on ... Oh yes I know - that the Master of the Universe resident here already knows better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Actually Trump could work with Congress to write and pass law defining the misused 14th amendment to end birthright citizenship, as a child of illegal immigrant parents aren't soverign to USA which lacks jurisdiction..So not a citizen. That would force SCOTUS to either overule law or let it stand. If the overruled that, then an Amendment, but as most other nations have done, no rights just for being across the line. You lack understanding of constitutional law. A new law would just be ruled unconstitutional. Show me one case where the Supreme Court has overturned a decision on interpretation of the Constitution that has stood for over 100 years. The only way to do this is a constitutional amendment, and that's not going to happen, particularly because the 14th amendment was enacted to protect the rights of African-Americans after the Civil War. But there could be 50 laws enacted to deny issuance of a birth certificate ... then there would be dozens of court fights ... asymmetric warfare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 The lunatic right are so funny. The consitution is so precious. Until it's not... Obama has made the new rules -- now everybody has to live with the consequences of that... Cheer Obama on -- have him issue Executive orders hither and yon... So will President Trump and / or Cruz ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In most of the posts above I see resentment against the illegal immigrants in US. Obviously most of these posters are Americans. Now, gentlemen, may I ask you to make a mental effort? Just imagine that all these illegal migrants are Muslims! With all due respect, those illegal migrants you are complaining about may well be a burden on your social structure. But I never heard of any 'Latinos' building Mosques, calling for Jihad, killing Americans, demanding Sharia Laws, raping any female without a burka, blowing anything up or just violently demonstrating against anything! Cutting it short - why not shut up because you have lesser problems than Europeans? As to Trump - I considered him an idiot from the start. Him saying anything will not change my view. My view is irrelevant since I'm not an American. Him being an idiot will not stop Americans voting him in. Congrats in advance! Of the things you never heard of certainly killing and raping are the most horrible problems; but on these two examples you are wrong. I actually believe your point is valid, but you are incorrect that many Americans are not being brutally raped and murdered by people invading from other countries. I did a quick check and the numbers of illegals in US compared to entire EU are in the tens of times more (a cursory glance at the graphs- difference between hundreds of thousands and millions). If I had to choose the destruction of my nation I would choose the Latino hoards over burkas and rusty blades; this is, after all, what you are proposing, and because all can agree one sucks so much more we thus have little right to bitch- right? Wrong! Its a false choice. Both suck! The real story in your above post and my response is why are these masses of people being enticed into our borders? The fundamental conditions of the remainder of the world have hardly changed enough since 2000 to warrant such redistribution of peoples. So, my conclusion: If you cant successfully redistribute the money redistribute the people. I am utterly convinced the massive movements are by design. Note:The 14 Amendment is a stalking horse. It was only ever intended for the African American population in the US. It is an abuse of intent to morph it into the caricature of a Right it has become. If one wants to have a valid legislation of this issue then debate the common law issue underpinning the deceit- of the blood or soil? Born of blood or born of soil. The 14th amendment did not yet envision this NWO Trojan horse. Our hoards would, by the standards of those days, be considered an invasion. Whereas our laws are derivative common law you do not see jus soli being applied in the EU today. Its some blend of jus soli and jus sanguinis- born of soil or blood, but with restrictions. The US 14 Amendment is then novel compared to our legal heritage, and thus suspect for inventing new common law. It is to this confusing circle of born to blood or born to soil that the enigma of the Requirement to the Office of the President takes place regarding natural birth, etc. Are we really to expect that this enigmatic or debatable prescription in the US constitution for our president is, for illegal aliens, quite clear- have a baby, its a citizen! But for the oath of office meaning still remains opaque? Nonsense. This is all sleight of hand, disingenuous argument. Jus soli arguments for illegals birthing on US soil intentionally married the 14th Amendment and co opted it. American blacks should be outraged. Thanks, arjunadawn, for a very detailed discourse. Any irony or sarcasm aside - it went well over my head. And it is not your fault. I really know very little of US, its history, its politics etc. About 10 years back I decided to visit US for the first time. Perhaps my choice was wrong - or I cared more about climate - but I decided to spend 3 weeks in Florida and 3 weeks in California. As mentioned my education in anything related to US was very limited. Therefore the impressions I brought out are very intuitive and may be wrong. Please, keep this in mind. Besides, my visit to US was cut short by my own decision. Since I didn't like what I saw I hopped off to Mexico to see in total Acapulco, Guadalajara and Cancun. In both California and Florida I observed many Mexicans, Blacks (Afro-Americans, Negroes - take your pick) and Whites. My impressions: Most Blacks in the streets of L-A and Miami (I did see smaller towns too) hate US. To the point of not even willing to speak American English. And this is after about 10 generations being Americans. And they are aggressively confrontational to Whites. Most Latinos I saw in the streets and shops of Florida and California are friendly! Many speak broken English, but their kids are well dressed, neat and speak better English than parents - go to school (?) and willing to learn (?). However most Mexicans I saw in Mexico are very negative about 'gringoes'. Most Whites I saw in the streets and shops of L-A or Miami are 'taking care'! Being outwardly friendly they are slapping you on the shoulder at the same time trying to gain something either selling you an idea, an unwanted item or a needed one at an inflated price. I did not like these White Americans off the street. BTW, I admit that most people I am talking about are not all Americans. Anyway, to come back to the topic - Trump as a candidate, what he says he will do, his personality etc. - I do not and can not know him. What I feel about him, my impression of him - I wouldn't trust this uncouth old pirate to walk my dog out. And I do trust my feelings, my impressions and intuition. But as I said before - I trust Americans to make the worst possible choice, as almost always they do. arjunadawn, reading your last paragraph about Requirements to the Office how come Obama actually became elected? Obama eligible because of outright lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattayasnowman Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) This is where those paranoid ideas lead to Edited August 17, 2015 by pattayasnowman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Anchor babies are authorized by the US Supreme Court. Does Trump understand to undo that, he has to pass a constitutional amendment or get the US Supreme Court to reverse itself Yes, he has stated he wants to call a constitutional convention to alter the 14th Amendment. It's long past time that this jurisprudential nonsense be done away with, once and for all. The entire 14th Amendment should be scrapped, IMHO. a constitutional convention to alter the 14th Amendment. The rightwing has been calling for a constitutional convention for decades without success. The vast majority of Americans see no need of any such thing. Americans don't want a constitutional convention which is why no candidate for president has advocated it and congress has done nothing toward having any such thing. The wound up activist right would get its delegates elected to a constitutional convention to torch the Bill of Rights in no time at all. One outcome would be that immigration would be criminalised which is the opposite of the guarantees of the 14th Amendment. The farther Trump and the Republican party go into this election campaign, the farther both together race to the fringe and the deeper they go in to the abyss of defeat. There is a strong move for a Convention of the States which is different than a Constitutional Conventions as is conventionally / classically known... Thirty four states in agreement by resolution of their Legislatures can call the Convention... And since Republicans and many Conservative Republicans control the greater majority of the states - this is entirely possible. And it circumvents a run away Convention because the ratification of any changes is also by the states and again Republicans and Conservatives predominate and would strike undesirable changes - thus netting only changes that Republicans and Conservatives want... 555 Plus as one poster already stated - states one after another can defy the rule -- there is already a state refusing to issue birth certificates to illegal aliens babies. - Texas. This States Rights 10th amendment issue would keep the courts running for years and no birth certificates issue if this caught on ... Oh yes I know - that the Master of the Universe resident here already knows better... The farther to the fringe and the faster besides until the right and the Republican party finally dash off the cliff hand in hand legs spinning in the air and smiling. The most youse guyz have got in respect of what the post is discussing are 24 of the required 34 states and the right is just about maxed out on this as the immigration lawsuit shows. Twenty-six states are participating in the suit against the president's immigration executive action of last year that is still before the 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals. Yet only 24 states are on board for a sub-constitutional Convention of the States mentioned in the post. And the right knows anything it might accomplish in a sub-constitutional Convention of the States called by (a minimum of) 34 states would continue to need 38 states to approve for it to become a part of the Constitution. So the right would still need a Second Constitutional Convention of all of the United States, called by (a minimum of) 38 states, which is even further beyond the reach of the lunar orbiters on the marginal right fringes of the society. States, counties or persons refusing for any reason to issue lawful and Constitutional certificates of birth, marriage, death, divorce, citizenship and the like, are in violation of law and of the Constitution. Counties that rebel against a state and/or the United States would be subject to appropriate state and federal action to cease or desist, enforcible in state and federal courts of law. Attempts at any armed insurrection by a county or any group against a state or federal authority will be shat upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slerickson Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Actually Trump could work with Congress to write and pass law defining the misused 14th amendment to end birthright citizenship, as a child of illegal immigrant parents aren't soverign to USA which lacks jurisdiction..So not a citizen. That would force SCOTUS to either overule law or let it stand. If the overruled that, then an Amendment, but as most other nations have done, no rights just for being across the line. You lack understanding of constitutional law. A new law would just be ruled unconstitutional. Show me one case where the Supreme Court has overturned a decision on interpretation of the Constitution that has stood for over 100 years. The only way to do this is a constitutional amendment, and that's not going to happen, particularly because the 14th amendment was enacted to protect the rights of African-Americans after the Civil War. But there could be 50 laws enacted to deny issuance of a birth certificate ... then there would be dozens of court fights ... asymmetric warfare... And GUARANTEED the states would lose that. States rights are what the civil war was fought over. Fed won. And yea tourist babies should not be given citizenship either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 The lunatic right are so funny. The consitution is so precious. Until it's not... Obama has made the new rules -- now everybody has to live with the consequences of that... Cheer Obama on -- have him issue Executive orders hither and yon... So will President Trump and / or Cruz ... What happened to the lawsuits Boehner filed against Obama's exec orders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Anchor babies are authorized by the US Supreme Court. Does Trump understand to undo that, he has to pass a constitutional amendment or get the US Supreme Court to reverse itself? Trump has just demonstrated that he has no knowledge about constitutional law and the limits of presidential power.If so I wonder where he learned all that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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