Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[thailandchilli]

Tony or who ever you are. You could be a Jane or a Joe but anyway I fail to see why you wish to assassinate Andy Hall's character.

As far as I can see he has only done good for the MWRN.. For the Rights of Migrant workers in many cases. He has helped to raise funds so as Hannah and David's family can get a better and just result in the effort to find the killers of their children. He has sought support for some fair justice along with Chris Harkins and his petition. The defence lawyers and their support staff. Heidi Anna and her help as well as the ladies who have taken the B2 Mothers under their wing.

If the B2 are guilty so be it and a fair trial will prove without doubt if they are guilty.

Trying generate some animosity towards a selfless man only goes to lower your place in the human race doesn't?

Comments Welcome Below:

Reading in the Daily mail today it seems the two Burmese have suddenly changed their story and are now saying that they thought the woman was being raped and beat off the man to help.

​It sort of now makes a mockery of all those claiming to be a stitch up

Link here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205844/Twist-British-backpacker-murder-trial-Two-accused-men-claim-thought-student-Hannah-Witheridge-raped-went-help-beach-Thailand.html

The Daily Mail article is wrong, this was reported first yesterday by Sky News:

Mr Kringkrai was released last December but, before that, he also acted as a translator during police interviews at the prison.

He said he heard both suspects confess to the rape and killing of Ms Witheridge, 23, and the murder of 24-year-old Mr Miller, when he was translating.

He said that they had told police they heard Ms Witheridge crying and saying repeatedly: "I'm sorry. I'm sorry".

They said they went over to see what was going on and saw Mr Miller on top of her.

Mr Kringkrai said Lin admitted picking up a garden hoe and hitting Mr Miller with it to get him off Ms Witheridge. Then Wei Phyo decided to rape her, Mr Kringkrai also said. http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body

[thailandchilli]

Immaturity at its best ^^^^ or should I say worst

[Darkknight666]

So the B2 went to save Hannah from rape, but after successfully defeating the "rapist" decide to rape and kill Hannah themselves? Wow, Ok.

[jdinasia]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

The first statement is a logical fallacy.

[StealthEnergiser]

Suspects in the Koh Tao Murder Trial Were Given Woefully Unqualified Interpreters

The accused claim they are scapegoats and face a possible death sentence if convicted

A Thai court has heard that the interpreters used to record the confessions of two Burmese men accused of murdering a pair of British backpackers last year were in fact flatbread hawkers who did not properly understand Thai or the suspects’ native Burmese dialect.

Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin, both 22, stand accused of the murder of David Miller, 24, and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the Thai Gulf island of Koh Tao. The victims’ bloodied corpses were discovered in the early hours of Sept. 15 on popular Sairee Beach just yards from their guesthouse.

The suspects, both ethnic Rakhine from Burma’s restive western Arakan state, were working on Koh Tao at the time, and admitted to the double murder during interrogation. However, they soon recanted and claimed they were tortured into confessing.

http://time.com/4005983/koh-tao-murder-trial-interpreters-backpackers/?xid=tcoshare

[thailandchilli]

TIME Article

On Thursday, Samui Central Court heard that two Rohingya Muslims — an ethnicity currently engaged in a bitter sectarian feud with the Rakhine — were employed as interpreters during their interrogation. However, they only had rudimentary understanding of Thai and the Rakhine language

Speaking to TIME in Koh Samui prison prior to the trial, Wai Phyo said the translator accused him of being party to mob violence against Rohingya in their homeland. “He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

http://time.com/4005983/koh-tao-murder-trial-interpreters-backpackers/?xid=tcoshare

u beat me to it Stealth

[Dogmatix]

Another mystery to do with this case has never been explained. That is what is the legal status in Thailand of the two Rohingya pancake sellers who double up as police translators. Being Rohingyas they presumably don't have Burmese nationality and may in fact be stateless. Even if they have genuine Burmese or Bangladeshi passports, they cannot possibly have work permits and NON-B visas to work as pancake sellers and translators. Retail jobs are banned for foreigners and work permits are not supposed to be issued unless the foreign worker is employed by a properly registered business that is also registered for VAT, has paid-up capital of 2 million baht and employs at least 4 Thais for every foreigner. On the Thai TV interview, it looked like one of the pancake sellers was self employed running a one man stall which is certainly impossible for foreigners. Since they are illiterate in both Thai and Burmese they couldn't possibly get work permits as Thai-Burmese translators, since they would have to show their qualifications for the job.

If they have Thai ID cards, these are likely to be fake or illegally issued by corrupt district office officials (the going rate for Burmese to buy illegally issued Thai ID cards is allegedly 200,000 baht, usually in the name of a deceased Thai person). There is no way a stateless person born outside Thailand can legally become a naturalised Thai citizen. Even if they had Burmese or Bangladeshi nationality, they would need to be earning 80,000 baht a month with notarised tax receipts and be working for a proper company. Even so, foreigners leaving in Surat Province, where Samui is located, have reported that local officials refused to process naturalisation applications which meant the only way for them to do it was to get a house registration in Bangkok.

The chances that the two pancake sellers are legally residing and working in Thailand seems less than a snowball's chance in hell. That's probably why police are happy to employ them, knowing that they are beholden to police to be allowed to continue their happy illegal existences in the Kingdom.

[jimmybkk]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

The first statement is a logical fallacy.

How about the kid that was hanged by cops that was made to look like a suicide - does that suggest that the RTP is corrupt to the core?

[jdinasia]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

The first statement is a logical fallacy.

How about the kid that was hanged by cops that was made to look like a suicide - does that suggest that the RTP is corrupt to the core?

Nope.

[boomerangutang]

Certainly the decision will not be based on the snippets of biased opinion provided by the defense that have been the basis of the reporting on the proceedings; I think some people are setting themselves up for disappointment by embracing this bias.

I've become inured to disappointments, because there have been so many in this case. Here are a few:

>>> RTP didn't secure the crime scene

>>> RTP didn't look for clues

>>> CCTV footage on island either destroyed, not looked at or refused to be handed over. 2/3 of cameras purportedly broken.

>>> RTP's first investigative team said they knew who the criminals were and arrests were imminent. No arrests ensued.

>>> Brit team of experts were told they could show up. Then, a day later, just before they arrived, they were told they can do zero investigative work.

>>> Brit coroner told she would release findings on Jan. 6. Just before Jan.6, she says, nope, but maybe will release some finding in October.

>>> In late April, the court said defense could re-examine DNA evidence right away. Days later, the court said they would make a decision on the first day of the trial. First day came and went. Second day came and went, still no decision. Third day, a decision was made to make a decision. Now, weeks later, we still don't know if any DNA has been re-tested.

>>> Even if/when DNA is reexamined, the court is putting restrictions on what can be re-tested. Rule #1, nothing can be looked at which relates to any of the Headman's staff, buddies or family members.

Disappointments? Naw, everything is peaches and cream. The PM hit the nail on the head when he said, "this is a perfect investigation."

[jimmybkk]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

The first statement is a logical fallacy.

How about the kid that was hanged by cops that was made to look like a suicide - does that suggest that the RTP is corrupt to the core?

Nope.

You make a strong argument as usual... I give you that

Blind faith wins the day once again.

[BritTim]

Time has another interesting article online. This is interesting, if unsurprising

Speaking to TIME in Koh Samui prison prior to the trial, Wai Phyo said the translator accused him of being party to mob violence against Rohingya in their homeland. “He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

Source: http://time.com/4005983/koh-tao-murder-trial-interpreters-backpackers/

[jimmybkk]

Good to see that the British Gov't are giving those thinking of visiting Koh Tao a bit of a heads up in terms of what to expect:

"Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago). In January 2013 a British national was killed in a shooting incident while at a beach party in Haad Rin on Koh Phanang and in September 2014, 2 British nationals were killed in Tao.

Violent sexual assaults and robberies against both men and women are reported regularly in the Koh Samui archipelago and Krabi province."

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

[Tony121]

TIME Article

On Thursday, Samui Central Court heard that two Rohingya Muslims — an ethnicity currently engaged in a bitter sectarian feud with the Rakhine — were employed as interpreters during their interrogation. However, they only had rudimentary understanding of Thai and the Rakhine language

Speaking to TIME in Koh Samui prison prior to the trial, Wai Phyo said the translator accused him of being party to mob violence against Rohingya in their homeland. “He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

http://time.com/4005983/koh-tao-murder-trial-interpreters-backpackers/?xid=tcoshare

u beat me to it Stealth

However, they only had rudimentary understanding of Thai and the Rakhine language

He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

Doesn't seem Wai has a problem understanding the Translator.

[Dogmatix]

tw9.jpg

http://www.heart.co.uk/eastanglia/news/local/heart-east-anglia-scribble-live/#HLuj6rrIYs4Uz2Tl.97

Well done Stealth! Thanks for that first bit of real news from the trial today. The prosecutions hole just gets deeper and deeper with this motley crew of idiots

A translator who cannot speak or read Thai and cannot understand the B2 dialect. Well that takes the biscuit. I'll revise my opinion that this trial is a Thai soap drama to a Thai soap comedy. You know, the ones where there's a lot of shouting by men and women dressed in funny clothes, and doing stupid things that has the audience in hysterics.

Correction

The translator cant read or write thai, so I take it that he can speak thai

He speaks Thai badly with a heavy Indian subcontinent accent, if you listen to the interview he did on Thai TV when he said the murder weapon was a large wine bottle.

[Tony121]

Tony or who ever you are. You could be a Jane or a Joe but anyway I fail to see why you wish to assassinate Andy Hall's character.

As far as I can see he has only done good for the MWRN.. For the Rights of Migrant workers in many cases. He has helped to raise funds so as Hannah and David's family can get a better and just result in the effort to find the killers of their children. He has sought support for some fair justice along with Chris Harkins and his petition. The defence lawyers and their support staff. Heidi Anna and her help as well as the ladies who have taken the B2 Mothers under their wing.

If the B2 are guilty so be it and a fair trial will prove without doubt if they are guilty.

Trying generate some animosity towards a selfless man only goes to lower your place in the human race doesn't?

Comments Welcome Below:

Reading in the Daily mail today it seems the two Burmese have suddenly changed their story and are now saying that they thought the woman was being raped and beat off the man to help.

​It sort of now makes a mockery of all those claiming to be a stitch up

Link here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205844/Twist-British-backpacker-murder-trial-Two-accused-men-claim-thought-student-Hannah-Witheridge-raped-went-help-beach-Thailand.html

The Daily Mail article is wrong, this was reported first yesterday by Sky News:

Mr Kringkrai was released last December but, before that, he also acted as a translator during police interviews at the prison.

He said he heard both suspects confess to the rape and killing of Ms Witheridge, 23, and the murder of 24-year-old Mr Miller, when he was translating.

He said that they had told police they heard Ms Witheridge crying and saying repeatedly: "I'm sorry. I'm sorry".

They said they went over to see what was going on and saw Mr Miller on top of her.

Mr Kringkrai said Lin admitted picking up a garden hoe and hitting Mr Miller with it to get him off Ms Witheridge. Then Wei Phyo decided to rape her, Mr Kringkrai also said. http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body

My apologies Andy did tweet this,just the part about the bruising on the chest though, he left out the confession part ! more Balanced reporting from the great Human rights defender.

[Dogmatix]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

The first statement is a logical fallacy.

How about the kid that was hanged by cops that was made to look like a suicide - does that suggest that the RTP is corrupt to the core?

That was a bunch of police colonels too and they got monetary awards for good service after being convicted but still out on bail. You forgot to mention that they burned the boy's testicles off before hanging him. Presumably burning off ones own testicles is considered normal in Thailand prior to committing suicide.

[jimmybkk]

TIME Article

On Thursday, Samui Central Court heard that two Rohingya Muslims — an ethnicity currently engaged in a bitter sectarian feud with the Rakhine — were employed as interpreters during their interrogation. However, they only had rudimentary understanding of Thai and the Rakhine language

Speaking to TIME in Koh Samui prison prior to the trial, Wai Phyo said the translator accused him of being party to mob violence against Rohingya in their homeland. “He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

http://time.com/4005983/koh-tao-murder-trial-interpreters-backpackers/?xid=tcoshare

u beat me to it Stealth

However, they only had rudimentary understanding of Thai and the Rakhine language

He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

Doesn't seem Wai has a problem understanding the Translator.

And the Time reporter can understand Wai...

That's a good point you made there Tony - maybe the flat-bread selling translators were totally superfluous and were only introduced to the investigation because the RTP knew they would be able to get close to the accused and could coerce them into confessing...

Damn! Guess it worked like a charm too...

[Darkknight666]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

The first statement is a logical fallacy.

How about the kid that was hanged by cops that was made to look like a suicide - does that suggest that the RTP is corrupt to the core?

That was a bunch of police colonels too and they got monetary awards for good service after being convicted but still out on bail. You forgot to mention that they burned the boy's testicles off before hanging him. Presumably burning off ones own testicles is considered normal in Thailand prior to committing suicide.

Missed that one, can I get a link or a name? Want to read that.

[loonodingle]

One of the Andy Hall propaganda machine have already said that Andy's words were taken out of context in the above news article keep up Einstein

Tony or who ever you are. You could be a Jane or a Joe but anyway I fail to see why you wish to assassinate Andy Hall's character.

As far as I can see he has only done good for the MWRN.. For the Rights of Migrant workers in many cases. He has helped to raise funds so as Hannah and David's family can get a better and just result in the effort to find the killers of their children. He has sought support for some fair justice along with Chris Harkins and his petition. The defence lawyers and their support staff. Heidi Anna and her help as well as the ladies who have taken the B2 Mothers under their wing.

If the B2 are guilty so be it and a fair trial will prove without doubt if they are guilty.

Trying generate some animosity towards a selfless man only goes to lower your place in the human race doesn't?

Comments Welcome Below:

Reading in the Daily mail today it seems the two Burmese have suddenly changed their story and are now saying that they thought the woman was being raped and beat off the man to help.

​It sort of now makes a mockery of all those claiming to be a stitch up

Link here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205844/Twist-British-backpacker-murder-trial-Two-accused-men-claim-thought-student-Hannah-Witheridge-raped-went-help-beach-Thailand.html

I think we are going to find that this is what the video confession had them claiming. If, instead, they gave this testimony themselves in court during the prosecution phase of the trial, I will be surprised. I agree, in that case, it would put a whole new complexion on things.

You know I think this video clip is very good. Its the defence lawyer saying if he thinks they did the crime he would tell them to confess. If there was evidence to suggest they did it. However the facts are they have uncovered crucial evidence from the UK to suggest the prosecutions case is flawed. To such an extent that they are pursuing a not guilty verdict. I think the lawyer is a straight forward guy. If he thought they did it he would tell them seek mercy and admit it. Watch the top video

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205844/Twist-British-backpacker-murder-trial-Two-accused-men-claim-thought-student-Hannah-Witheridge-raped-went-help-beach-Thailand.html#v-3929836688001

<iframe frameborder="0" width="698" height="573" scrolling="no" id="molvideoplayer" title="MailOnline Embed Player" src="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/embed/video/1142499.html"></iframe>

[jimmybkk]

Try searching: Kiattisak Thitboonkrong

In a nutshell - 17 year old kid, arrested for stealing a motorbike during the war on drugs murderthon in 2004. He was released after a few days and taken somewhere by the cops where they hanged him and made it look like a suicide, but the family (and all credit to them for this) wouldn't accept the suicide story and managed to get the case investigated and 5 cops ended up getting charged with his murder. I think all 5 were found guilty and 3 of the cops got the death sentence...

Amazing huh?

What's even more amazing though is that after being sentenced to death all 3 of them were released on bail...

And to add insult to injury, the police protection that was being provided to the family members who had given evidence against the cops and had fought to bring the case to trial was taken away as soon as the case was over and the cops got bailed out, because that is standard operating procedure here apparently. As soon as the case ends, so does any police protection of witnesses...

[jimmybkk]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

The first statement is a logical fallacy.

How about the kid that was hanged by cops that was made to look like a suicide - does that suggest that the RTP is corrupt to the core?

That was a bunch of police colonels too and they got monetary awards for good service after being convicted but still out on bail. You forgot to mention that they burned the boy's testicles off before hanging him. Presumably burning off ones own testicles is considered normal in Thailand prior to committing suicide.

Jeez! I didn't read that part about his testicles... That's nasty.

[Darkknight666]

Thank you, Jimmy and Loon... Hadn't seen those.

[BritTim]

<deleted>

[JLCrab]

Maybe try James Dunn.

By JAMES DUNN FOR MAILONLINE

[thailandchilli]

TIME Article

On Thursday, Samui Central Court heard that two Rohingya Muslims — an ethnicity currently engaged in a bitter sectarian feud with the Rakhine — were employed as interpreters during their interrogation. However, they only had rudimentary understanding of Thai and the Rakhine language

Speaking to TIME in Koh Samui prison prior to the trial, Wai Phyo said the translator accused him of being party to mob violence against Rohingya in their homeland. “He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

http://time.com/4005983/koh-tao-murder-trial-interpreters-backpackers/?xid=tcoshare

u beat me to it Stealth

However, they only had rudimentary understanding of Thai and the Rakhine language

He asked me: ‘When the riots started in Burma, where were you? Did you burn down my village?’” said Wai Phyo.

Doesn't seem Wai has a problem understanding the Translator.

And, whats thats that to do with the ability of the translators lack of skills in the translating dept?

[IslandLover]

The trial of two men accused of murdering University of Essex student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand is expected to be shown their video confessions today.

22 year-olds Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo had initially confessed to killing 23 year-old Hannah and fellow Brit, 24 year-old David Miller from Jersey, but later retracted the statements amid claims they had been tortured into making them.

Yesterday, a man who shared a cell with the pair claimed he saw injuries on the body of Zaw Lin following his interrogation. The man, known as Kringkrai, said Lin ad a wound and bruising clearly visible on his chest and he complained he was in pain.

Sarah McBride has been in court for Heart and gave this update.

Hannah Witheridge Murder Suspect Confessions To Be Shown

Read more at http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/hannah-witheridge-murder-confessions-to-be-shown/#RsLSftijSBBlp6iy.99

OK, so even more information in the Heart article about the Thai solicitor who "witnessed" the confessions. The Myanmar Times article also mentions him and indicates the confessions he "witnessed" were relayed to him via the roti sellers.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16101-thai-police-used-roti-vendors-as-translators.html

On August 19, Bangkok solicitor Pittaya Yaipetch claimed he was present during the confessions but did not make a report of the event, despite apparently being an observer for the Thai Lawyers Association.

and

Those confessions were allegedly obtained using the translation services of the roti sellers, but the confessions were later retracted.

[thailandchilli]

The Daily Mail article is wrong, this was reported first yesterday by Sky News:

Mr Kringkrai was released last December but, before that, he also acted as a translator during police interviews at the prison.

He said he heard both suspects confess to the rape and killing of Ms Witheridge, 23, and the murder of 24-year-old Mr Miller, when he was translating.

He said that they had told police they heard Ms Witheridge crying and saying repeatedly: "I'm sorry. I'm sorry".

They said they went over to see what was going on and saw Mr Miller on top of her.

Mr Kringkrai said Lin admitted picking up a garden hoe and hitting Mr Miller with it to get him off Ms Witheridge. Then Wei Phyo decided to rape her, Mr Kringkrai also said. http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body

My apologies Andy did tweet this,just the part about the bruising on the chest though, he left out the confession part ! more Balanced reporting from the great Human rights defender.

Andy's tweets are to advocate a fair and transparent trial, something you fail to aspire to and so will always disagree with the process and Andy Hall, carry on we all have you sussed, oh you live on Samui you stated in a previous post, why don't you talk to Andy yourself on the matter huh?

[loonodingle]

Thank you, Jimmy and Loon... Hadn't seen those.

Darkknight,

Having helped Andy Hall and Nakhon in the Uk in the first six months and been party to many emails that went between Reprieve and others I am absolutely sure 100% that if they knew the 2 where guilty they would tell them to plead for mercy.

It was mentioned many times and the whole theme of the defence is to get justice. Not only for the B2 but For David and Hannah and their family's.

Because of some agreements they had to sign I do not know what's in the bag. I have a good idea but I cant say.

But its going to light the light internet up I think. Having spoke to the case officer for Hannah i am sure a thorough detailed forensic autopsy was carried out. This will include X-rays along with and trace DNA they could recover. Technology is very advanced now in the UK. We don't hear to much but they achieve far more than the Thai's I think. Well they are more thorough.

[rockingrobin]

The trial of two men accused of murdering University of Essex student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand is expected to be shown their video confessions today.

22 year-olds Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo had initially confessed to killing 23 year-old Hannah and fellow Brit, 24 year-old David Miller from Jersey, but later retracted the statements amid claims they had been tortured into making them.

Yesterday, a man who shared a cell with the pair claimed he saw injuries on the body of Zaw Lin following his interrogation. The man, known as Kringkrai, said Lin ad a wound and bruising clearly visible on his chest and he complained he was in pain.

Sarah McBride has been in court for Heart and gave this update.

Hannah Witheridge Murder Suspect Confessions To Be Shown

Read more at http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/hannah-witheridge-murder-confessions-to-be-shown/#RsLSftijSBBlp6iy.99

OK, so even more information in the Heart article about the Thai solicitor who "witnessed" the confessions. The Myanmar Times article also mentions him and indicates the confessions he "witnessed" were relayed to him via the roti sellers.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16101-thai-police-used-roti-vendors-as-translators.html

On August 19, Bangkok solicitor Pittaya Yaipetch claimed he was present during the confessions but did not make a report of the event, despite apparently being an observer for the Thai Lawyers Association.

and

Those confessions were allegedly obtained using the translation services of the roti sellers, but the confessions were later retracted.

At the initial confession there was no independent /impartial or any lawyer , solicitor present