Considering Peugeot 405: however, weak air-con

[ClareQuilty]

I've been offered a very cheap early 1990s Peugeot 405, which is an interesting though naturally somewhat dubious car due to parts availability.

This one looks great, great condition in and out, engine runs very well (and stayed cool during very long middle-of-the-hot-afternoon test drive), and the car drives perfectly (straight down the road, no wandering or vibrations). Great handling, great brakes. Not a huge amount of power, but that's to be expected with 1.6 or 1.9 liters in a not-small car.

The only peccadilloes are 1) very weak air-con - the air is cool, but the volume of air blown out by the fan is very small. I've been told by friends who have previously owned Peugeots that this is 'just how Peugeots are, nothing can be done about it, its why nobody wants them in Thailand'. and 2) the five-speed manual transmission, though working perfectly, seems to have - to my mind - unnaturally long 'throws'. I don't know if that's how it is designed, and I'm used to 'short throw' manual shifters on Japanese cars, but it just seemed odd to me.

Has anyone had any experience about this model? Is it worth trying out for a mere 30k purchase price? Also, any ideas about doing something to rectify or supplement a badly designed air-con system?

[phetphet]

It might be worth getting the air con serviced. Check the refrigerant gas doesn't need topping up, and get filters changed.

[kartman]

Early 90's 1.6's have solid front discs don't know about 1.9's not a good spec for that size of car have you tried a moderately fast/emergency stop, had one sold it no confidence it would pull up that one time needed but for 30k maybe not a priority

[ClareQuilty]

Yeah not a high priority kartman, as I'm an extremely slow driver and never 'push the limits' of any car. I'm more concerned about the air and the general Peugeot reliability issue..

[fullcave]

Maybe also invest in a tow truck to follow behind...

[ClareQuilty]

Went back to check it out today, and they'd gotten the air-con working reasonably well ("new solenoid"). It wasn't super powerful like a Toyota or Honda, but it kept the car quite comfortable on a bright, sunny, 93 degree afternoon.

Took the car for another long (30 minute) test drive, engine stayed cool, no big problems. The extremely long-throw gearbox remains a concern - is that a sign of a worn-out gearbox?

Also, when a car has a very heavy 'on-center' feel or tendency on the high way, is that a sign of something wrong?

[nelson bunker]

The 405 is very reliable, it is still very sought after in France to be exported to Africa where they have very very long careers (like the 404, 504 and 505 before)...

What is the mileage on this one?

[nelson bunker]

The 405 is very reliable, it is still very sought after in France to be exported to Africa where they have very very long careers (like the 404, 504 and 505 before)...

What is the mileage on this one?

[nelson bunker]

The 405 is very reliable, it is still very sought after in France to be exported to Africa where they have very very long careers (like the 404, 504 and 505 before)...

What is the mileage on this one?

[ClareQuilty]

The 405 is very reliable, it is still very sought after in France to be exported to Africa where they have very very long careers (like the 404, 504 and 505 before)...

What is the mileage on this one?

Just at 201,000 kilometers if it is accurate (the odometer is working at present), so, about 125,000 miles. Not too bad for the age (a 1996). He did say that the previous, original owner had let it sit for about 5 years, so that mileage sounds believable.

Edited August 19, 2015 by ClareQuilty

[Pomthai]

If it has sat for 5 years, be very very cautious as to the condition of the tires. They could be well beyond their safe usable life.

[vogie]

I had one back in the UK, great car but found the air con put an immense strain on the engine, i.e. If going up an hill with the aircon on I had to use a lower gear than I would with it disconnected.

[ClareQuilty]

Nobody can address the gearbox issue? I mean the throws are ridiculously long.

[ClareQuilty]

I read up a bit about extremely loose manual transmissions, and talked to my mechanic about it, and both suggested it is likely to be a fairly cheap/easy fix. Will go in the next couple of days to try to "do the deal". BTW, I found out the engine is the 2 liter.

[WarpSpeed]

This is my second try lost my first posting just as I was going to post.

You going into the used car business Clare? Sounds like a good deal, the A/C fan speed as it seems you found out could be a multitude of things. Don't know much about Peugeot, ironically the 405 was the last offering here before they pulled back due to low sales numbers. I was just considering racing one in a pro class as they were offering an incredible contingency at the time $5000 for top Peugeot in class (could be in 10th place) and $3000 for second, $2000 for 3rd and $1000 4th through 10th, with a $20,000 dollar season end championship prize fund, that was great money of the time and amazingly they handled quite well too, even with the massive body roll they were contenders and seemed quite durable, they finished more often then not, unless some other mishap.

The "long throw" sounds like possibly worn linkage bushings, cheap easy fix for most cars, not sure about the Peugeot in Thailand, but if the clutch engages close to the floor, and the gears don't grind when changing up or down it's not likely to be much more serious then that.

[phil2]

The only peccadilloes are 1) very weak air-con - the air is cool, but the volume of air blown out by the fan is very small. I've been told by friends who have previously owned Peugeots that this is 'just how Peugeots are, nothing can be done about it,

Not true. I have one and I have a problem with the amount of air coming out of the A/C vents because of the blower fan. I changed the carbon brushes two years ago, and it started blowing fine, but it was noisy, and a few months ago, I used WD-40 to clean it, and the noise disappeared. I have another blower fan (used), bought overseas, that works well. The only problem with the new one is that it came inverted (the air blows downwards), and I've been trying to figure out how to revert it to its original state.

[phil2]

Went back to check it out today, and they'd gotten the air-con working reasonably well ("new solenoid"). It wasn't super powerful like a Toyota or Honda, but it kept the car quite comfortable on a bright, sunny, 93 degree afternoon.

Took the car for another long (30 minute) test drive, engine stayed cool, no big problems. The extremely long-throw gearbox remains a concern - is that a sign of a worn-out gearbox?

Also, when a car has a very heavy 'on-center' feel or tendency on the high way, is that a sign of something wrong?

If the fans are Ok, and the engine block isn't leaking, the engine will mostly hover around 80 degrees Celsius.

A note of advice if you decide to get the car is to avoid the mechanics that will want you to leave the car overnight. A lot of parts have been stolen from mine, and if you're told to change the gearbox (I fell for it), or the engine, go to a Japanese car mechanic to get a second opinion. Don't also fall for the mother of all lies that the parts are difficult to find, so they are very expensive.

[ClareQuilty]

If the fans are Ok, and the engine block isn't leaking, the engine will mostly hover around 80 degrees Celsius.

Yeah it stayed right at 70-75 degrees C the whole time I drove it in afternoon heat. The mechanic told me the car has no thermostat, as is commonplace in tropical Thailand, thus on the whole might run a little cooler than a car with a thermostat.

The seller is actually my mechanic, who got it in payment for repairs to another car. He's not a Peugeot mechanic, just an all-round old-car mechanic, and he's used to me limping along on the cheap for years with my old cars, so I think he could keep the car going reasonably cheaply. Anyway he claims he can. He suggests the car needs only 1) the gearbox linkage, bushing, whatever tightened up, and 2) he suggests a new timing belt mightn't be a bad idea as the car was sitting so much for years, and it is an 'interference engine'. So, maybe 5,000 baht in repairs/updates, and the car should be safely usable.

By the way, are you saying, phil2, that in fact the parts are neither difficult to find nor expensive on a Peugeot? If that is true it would be great news, but it isn't really what I've heard elsewhere..

[nelson bunker]

I dont see why you worry about the 405 overheating...

Peugeot has a long experience with tropical markets, (Africa, Argentina (in Buenos Aires, most taxis are restyled 504)).

The 405 is still manufactured in Iran where it is called the Pars.

The 405 turbo 16 won the Paris-Dakar rally in 1989 and 1990, no overheating...

It also won the Pikes Peak Hill climb in 1988 and 1989...

Have a look at this mythical clip, Climb Dance, Ari Vatanen's 1988 record-breaking run at the 1988 Pikes Peak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEuZG37gFdM

Do post pics of the car if you do the deal...

[kartman]

Paris-Dakar '405s' no overheating, so ClairQ should remount the engine behind the front seats i think the only thing in common with road 405's and PD ,PP prototypes is the grill and maybe the lights.

[Sviss Geez]

I dont see why you worry about the 405 overheating...

Peugeot has a long experience with tropical markets, (Africa, Argentina (in Buenos Aires, most taxis are restyled 504)).

The 405 is still manufactured in Iran where it is called the Pars.

The 405 turbo 16 won the Paris-Dakar rally in 1989 and 1990, no overheating...

It also won the Pikes Peak Hill climb in 1988 and 1989...

Have a look at this mythical clip, Climb Dance, Ari Vatanen's 1988 record-breaking run at the 1988 Pikes Peak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEuZG37gFdM

Do post pics of the car if you do the deal...

Climb Dance wasn't mythical, it really happened.

[phil2]

If the fans are Ok, and the engine block isn't leaking, the engine will mostly hover around 80 degrees Celsius.

Yeah it stayed right at 70-75 degrees C the whole time I drove it in afternoon heat. The mechanic told me the car has no thermostat, as is commonplace in tropical Thailand, thus on the whole might run a little cooler than a car with a thermostat.

The seller is actually my mechanic, who got it in payment for repairs to another car. He's not a Peugeot mechanic, just an all-round old-car mechanic, and he's used to me limping along on the cheap for years with my old cars, so I think he could keep the car going reasonably cheaply. Anyway he claims he can. He suggests the car needs only 1) the gearbox linkage, bushing, whatever tightened up, and 2) he suggests a new timing belt mightn't be a bad idea as the car was sitting so much for years, and it is an 'interference engine'. So, maybe 5,000 baht in repairs/updates, and the car should be safely usable.

By the way, are you saying, phil2, that in fact the parts are neither difficult to find nor expensive on a Peugeot? If that is true it would be great news, but it isn't really what I've heard elsewhere..

Sorry for replying late. Yes, the parts are very easy to find. I used to go to Worachak, but I've discovered that I could get them close to where I work, and the price difference isn't that much. You can also order online from a guy in Ayuthaya. He sells both old and new parts ( http://loohmun.blogspot.com/p/peugeot_11.html, http://loohmun.blogspot.com/p/peugeot.html). There are other people selling used parts in Bangkok, but they usually do not have the prices displayed.

He's right about the gear linkage because I had that problem a couple of months back, but I'm yet to change it because my mechanic (a Japanese car mechanic) told me it wasn't that necessary. He just added a couple of washers to it.

[stevenl]

Just buy it. If you don't hurry I'll come over to buy it for that price.

[ClareQuilty]

Just buy it. If you don't hurry I'll come over to buy it for that price.

Done! Well sort of - handshake agreement to finalise the sale early next week.

Happy to report the seller was already able to fix the loose shifter, with 650 baht worth of new parts delivered next day from Khon Kaen. He confirmed that most parts were still readily available and not too expensive.

[phil2]

Congrats

[JAS21]

So CQ ... this will be the end of lhe saga. You do seem to have had a little bad luck with cars. Have you got your Yellow Book or proof of sddress letter so that things will go smoothly at the Land Transport Office or where ever you will do the biz.

Anyway congrats also ...

[Lancashirelad]

Worn gear linkage = common problem on 405. Note the problem is now sorted, but generally this is what's required:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-405-GEAR-LINK-LINKAGE-LINKS-ROD-KIT-3PC-88-ALL-/370599975108

Edited August 23, 2015 by Lancashirelad

[ClareQuilty]

So CQ ... this will be the end of lhe saga. You do seem to have had a little bad luck with cars. Have you got your Yellow Book or proof of sddress letter so that things will go smoothly at the Land Transport Office or where ever you will do the biz.

Anyway congrats also ...

Thanks JAS21, actually I have had fantastic luck with cars... I have a great-driving Honda Civic that stays cool and has good air-con for about 65k, a mundane but reliable and comfortable Toyota Soluna for about 70k, and now, we'll see about the Peugeot. I think my little travails in getting to the point of having some reliable cars VERY cheap have been - not so bad really. And all the advice and help I've gotten on Thai visa has been a real assist. Thanks everyone.

Worn gear linkage = common problem on 405. Note the problem is now sorted, but generally this is what's required:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-405-GEAR-LINK-LINKAGE-LINKS-ROD-KIT-3PC-88-ALL-/370599975108

Yes! That's exactly it, Lanc. Though, for the 650 I think he replaced only one of those linkages, plus the 'bushing', whatever that is. Apparently some parts of the linkage were still OK. That's my mechanic - always parsimonious.

By the way all, speaking of costs, he's going to also change the timing belt before I buy it, but I did agree to pay for that upgrade - he quoted 1,800 baht for the complete job, parts and labor. Is that reasonable or unreasonable?

[nelson bunker]

I would say very reasonable...

[Lancashirelad]

Can't help re timing belt cost in LOS. 1800bht is about 30% of uk average cost. Just be sure he fits a brand name quality belt not some cheap chinese crap . Its always a very good idea to replace the belt (and tensioners!) if history is unknown.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Lancashirelad