Thai Bank Current Account, Getting On Thai Tax System, House Registration Book

[gdhm]

Hi,

I have today applied for my Retirement extension Visa (form a 90 day Non immigrant 'O" visa and had it accepted I now can stay here until August 2007.

1) I now wish to get on the Thai Taxation system which I assume I am obliged to do when I have been here over 185 days in the current year and intend to continue living here (my primary residence in Spain is up for Sale), but I do not know what to do OR what order OR how to go about it.

Additionally I wish to open a Thai Current bank account and get a THAI Visa card with a Thai billing address of course.

My UK bank will not accept a Thai address so ANY Visa orders have to be delivered to the UK address they HAVE accepted for me (crazy but they fear Frauds with Thai addresses).

On the Bangkok Bank website, Bangkok bank talks about producing a Work permit (of course I cannot I am not permitted to work having a Retirement Visa) for on-line baning they ask for the work permit OR for a Certificate of Residency. What exactly is a "Certificate of Residency.

IF I should have/ should get one how do I go about getting it and why doe I need it and is it mandatory?

2) Are foreigners not allowed to open any Thai Bank Current Accounts based on a Retirement Visa. What have other members of the Forum Had to produce if they live in Thailand on a Retirement Visa?

3) I live with my wife in her Aunt's house.

i) Am I allowed to be on their House registration document, or is that only when I on my own home (I know I cannot own the land its on) or if I am a Thai National?

ii) If answer to i) is YES.

Am I supposed to be on my Aunt's House register? or is it not mandatory?

If its not mandatory, but permissible, what are the benefits/problems by registering?

iii) If I should be on it, what do I need to do and what do I need to produce and where do I need to go?.

BOTTOM LINE with all 3 questions is that I wish to do the correct and legal thing, and as quickly as I should do so.

Any information, pointers or advice will be much appreciated.

I know about 90 reporting, but if there any other things a new Retirement Visa holder is obliged to please also advise. I would hate to do the wrong thing, or not do something due to ignorance.

My Thai family certainly have no idea what is required. I already suspect my wife's Aunt should have declared to "somebody' that I am living in her house and have been doing so for 4 months plus. I did mention this to her (read it somewhere) but no interest or concern was shown.

Regards

Dave

[wpcoe]

2) Are foreigners not allowed to open any Thai Bank Current Accounts based on a Retirement Visa. What have other members of the Forum Had to produce if they live in Thailand on a Retirement Visa?

I'm not a financial advisor (far from it, in fact), so I'm not sure what "Current Accounts" are, but you clearly can get a run-of-the-mill savings account. I have one at Siam Commercial Bank, and other friends have theirs at Bangkok Bank.

I know about 90 reporting, but if there any other things a new Retirement Visa holder is obliged to please also advise.

Please forgive me for stating what may be obvious, but you know about re-entry permits, don't you? You may not need one soon, or forever, but if you plan on leaving Thailand at any time and intend to re-enter, then you need one. Other than that if there's anything we Thai-Retirees need, it'll be a surprise to both of us.

[Maizefarmer]

Hi,

I have today applied for my Retirement extension Visa (form a 90 day Non immigrant 'O" visa and had it accepted I now can stay here until August 2007.

1) I now wish to get on the Thai Taxation system which I assume I am obliged to do when I have been here over 185 days in the current year and intend to continue living here (my primary residence in Spain is up for Sale), but I do not know what to do OR what order OR how to go about it.

I am not certain that that is correct - your retired and the capital you bring into Thailand to live off is nbot to the best of my knowlege subject to any tax.

Additionally I wish to open a Thai Current bank account and get a THAI Visa card with a Thai billing address of course.

My UK bank will not accept a Thai address so ANY Visa orders have to be delivered to the UK address they HAVE accepted for me (crazy but they fear Frauds with Thai addresses).

Yes - you can get a Visa card - somewher on the forum are some postings on just this subject and from what I have seen its a bit of a lottery procedure - each bank has their own policy and apply it somewhat haphazardly, but in summary: yes - you should be able to get one.

On the Bangkok Bank website, Bangkok bank talks about producing a Work permit (of course I cannot I am not permitted to work having a Retirement Visa) for on-line baning they ask for the work permit OR for a Certificate of Residency. What exactly is a "Certificate of Residency.

IF I should have/ should get one how do I go about getting it and why doe I need it and is it mandatory?

Certificate of residency is just that - as in been granted Permanent Residency - different to be here on a visa - PR's are not subject to any visa restrictions, and gain, no - you do not have to be a permanent resident to get a Visa card.

2) Are foreigners not allowed to open any Thai Bank Current Accounts based on a Retirement Visa. What have other members of the Forum Had to produce if they live in Thailand on a Retirement Visa?

Yes - you are allowed a current account - again, check different banks - they all have their own policies and they apply them somewhat haphazardly.

3) I live with my wife in her Aunt's house.

i) Am I allowed to be on their House registration document, or is that only when I on my own home (I know I cannot own the land its on) or if I am a Thai National?

Thats fine - you can register any residential address as your Thai home address - no prob's with wifes aunties address.

ii) If answer to i) is YES.

Am I supposed to be on my Aunt's House register? or is it not mandatory?

If its not mandatory, but permissible, what are the benefits/problems by registering?

Negative - its not mandatory.

iii) If I should be on it, what do I need to do and what do I need to produce and where do I need to go?.

BOTTOM LINE with all 3 questions is that I wish to do the correct and legal thing, and as quickly as I should do so.

Any information, pointers or advice will be much appreciated.

I know about 90 reporting, but if there any other things a new Retirement Visa holder is obliged to please also advise. I would hate to do the wrong thing, or not do something due to ignorance.

My Thai family certainly have no idea what is required. I already suspect my wife's Aunt should have declared to "somebody' that I am living in her house and have been doing so for 4 months plus. I did mention this to her (read it somewhere) but no interest or concern was shown.

I dont belive there is any obligation on her part to register/report you as stying in her house.

I see where you are coming from - this sounds as if its about been able to present paperwork to support banking arrangements. Its a bit of an odd situation as there are set rules by ther Bank of Thailand regards the issuance of credit, credit cards and certain accounts to foreigners - but that said, there are many postings on the forum which would suggest that differant people have had different experiances when dealing with banks.

Tim

Regards

Dave

[Noel]

Hi,

I have today applied for my Retirement extension Visa (form a 90 day Non immigrant 'O" visa and had it accepted I now can stay here until August 2007.

1) I now wish to get on the Thai Taxation system which I assume I am obliged to do when I have been here over 185 days in the current year and intend to continue living here (my primary residence in Spain is up for Sale), but I do not know what to do OR what order OR how to go about it.

Additionally I wish to open a Thai Current bank account and get a THAI Visa card with a Thai billing address of course.

My UK bank will not accept a Thai address so ANY Visa orders have to be delivered to the UK address they HAVE accepted for me (crazy but they fear Frauds with Thai addresses).

On the Bangkok Bank website, Bangkok bank talks about producing a Work permit (of course I cannot I am not permitted to work having a Retirement Visa) for on-line baning they ask for the work permit OR for a Certificate of Residency. What exactly is a "Certificate of Residency.

IF I should have/ should get one how do I go about getting it and why doe I need it and is it mandatory?

2) Are foreigners not allowed to open any Thai Bank Current Accounts based on a Retirement Visa. What have other members of the Forum Had to produce if they live in Thailand on a Retirement Visa?

3) I live with my wife in her Aunt's house.

i) Am I allowed to be on their House registration document, or is that only when I on my own home (I know I cannot own the land its on) or if I am a Thai National?

ii) If answer to i) is YES.

Am I supposed to be on my Aunt's House register? or is it not mandatory?

If its not mandatory, but permissible, what are the benefits/problems by registering?

iii) If I should be on it, what do I need to do and what do I need to produce and where do I need to go?.

BOTTOM LINE with all 3 questions is that I wish to do the correct and legal thing, and as quickly as I should do so.

Any information, pointers or advice will be much appreciated.

I know about 90 reporting, but if there any other things a new Retirement Visa holder is obliged to please also advise. I would hate to do the wrong thing, or not do something due to ignorance.

My Thai family certainly have no idea what is required. I already suspect my wife's Aunt should have declared to "somebody' that I am living in her house and have been doing so for 4 months plus. I did mention this to her (read it somewhere) but no interest or concern was shown.

Regards

Dave

My main advice to you is to stop worrying!

Forget about tax for a start; the only tax you will pay will be a 15% withholding deduction at source on bank interest. As you now have a ‘retirement visa’ you are prohibited from working, so paying income tax should not come into the equation.

As for a current account, the only account you are likely to get without a work permit (which de facto you cannot have) is of the savings deposit variety (no cheque book).

Do you not have a Thai bank account already?

Forget about being on your Aunt’s ‘house paper’. Having a ‘retirement visa’ will require you to report your intention to stay in the Kingdom for more than 90 days. The TM 47 form by which you do that also requires you to give your current address to the Immigration Bureau. That is all as you need do. A Certificate of Residence is only required should you want to apply for a Thai Driving Licence, buy a car in your own name etc. You can readily get one from the Immigration Bureau should the need arise.

Do not concern yourself any further; relax and enjoy your new home!

[wpcoe]

Am I reading the first quote wrong, or does there seems to be disagreement on what a "Certificate of Residence" is?

Certificate of residency is just that - as in been granted Permanent Residency - different to be here on a visa - PR's are not subject to any visa restrictions...

A Certificate of Residence is only required should you want to apply for a Thai Driving Licence, buy a car in your own name etc. You can readily get one from the Immigration Bureau should the need arise.

I read the first quote to mean only people granted Permanent Residency can get one, whereas the second quote says Dave (the OP, who does not have Permanent Residency) can get one.

[Tywais]

Am I reading the first quote wrong, or does there seems to be disagreement on what a "Certificate of Residence" is?

Certificate of residency is just that - as in been granted Permanent Residency - different to be here on a visa - PR's are not subject to any visa restrictions...

A Certificate of Residence is only required should you want to apply for a Thai Driving Licence, buy a car in your own name etc. You can readily get one from the Immigration Bureau should the need arise.

I read the first quote to mean only people granted Permanent Residency can get one, whereas the second quote says Dave (the OP, who does not have Permanent Residency) can get one.

The first quote is in error. You can get a certificate of residency at either immigration or at your embassy/consulate. Address verification certificate may be less confusing.

Edited September 25, 2006 by tywais

[gdhm]

My main advice to you is to stop worrying!

Forget about tax for a start; the only tax you will pay will be a 15% withholding deduction at source on bank interest. As you now have a ‘retirement visa’ you are prohibited from working, so paying income tax should not come into the equation.

As for a current account, the only account you are likely to get without a work permit (which de facto you cannot have) is of the savings deposit variety (no cheque book).

Do you not have a Thai bank account already?

Forget about being on your Aunt’s ‘house paper’. Having a ‘retirement visa’ will require you to report your intention to stay in the Kingdom for more than 90 days. The TM 47 form by which you do that also requires you to give your current address to the Immigration Bureau. That is all as you need do. A Certificate of Residence is only required should you want to apply for a Thai Driving Licence, buy a car in your own name etc. You can readily get one from the Immigration Bureau should the need arise.

Do not concern yourself any further; relax and enjoy your new home!

Hi,

I didn't worry too much about who taxed me when I lived in Spain, UK or Spain coz I WAS paying tax. Now I am selling my house in Spain I find that lack of worry is problematical and could cost me 4,000 Euros in extra tax EVEN though paying UK tax all along was more expensive than Spain's.

Spain feels it was entitled to the tax, NOT the UK as I was residing in Spain. I cannot argue with the logic. But I did listen to the wrong advice from people who said it was not important who I paid tax to provided I was paying tax to someone.

I feel Thailand may well rule the same as Spain and have similar rules that most countries seem to have (i.e. do you live more than half a year in one country then you must pay tax to THAT country). I am happy to pay tax that is due WHERE IT IS DUE.

1) My pension level falls within Taxable Income limits (and in fact Thailand's tax is a little lower than the UK's. I was under the impression that where you reside for the greater part of a year makes you taxable by THAT country and you do NOT have the option to pick and choose (especially if permanently resident with a Retirement Visa a year at a time. It also seems morally correct that Thailand get the tax and not the UK. I wouldn't wan to run into problems in the future IF (BIG IF but possible) Retirement Visa's renewal applications required the applicant to prove tax had been paid in Thailand during the previous year on their Pension Income (a very easy EXTRA requirement for Thailand TO introduce (especially if they wanted to catch those not paying tax who should be)

2) I do have a Savings Account but that is NO good for On-line Internet banking access (well not with Bangkok Bank anyway).

I will in the future wish to pay utility bills by Direct Debit where arrangements exist BUT I cannot with a Savings account.

I am not worried about a cheque book at all.

I consider Current Accounts much more flexible for moving money around (both internally and externally) AND usually Internet On-line banking (which I use extensively with my UK and Spanish bank accounts (from here in Thailand) are VERY MUCH geared to current accounts (not savings which are very restricted).

Regards

Dave

[Tywais]

I feel Thailand may well rule the same as Spain and have similar rules that most countries seem to have (i.e. do you live more than half a year in one country then you must pay tax to THAT country). I am happy to pay tax that is due WHERE IT IS DUE.

I believe the UK and Thailand have a dual taxation treaty (will let a Brit verify that) which will preclude you from having to pay tax here for funds generated in the UK. Perhaps Spain & the UK didn't have.

Edited September 25, 2006 by tywais

[Sophon]

I feel Thailand may well rule the same as Spain and have similar rules that most countries seem to have (i.e. do you live more than half a year in one country then you must pay tax to THAT country). I am happy to pay tax that is due WHERE IT IS DUE.

Generally Thailand will only tax income that are brought into Thailand the same year as it is earned. So just keep the income from your pension in England? until the year after you receive it, and you won't be taxed.

However, Thailand and England probably a double taxation agreement, which could possibly change the above general rule.

I will in the future wish to pay utility bills by Direct Debit where arrangements exist BUT I cannot with a Savings account.

AND usually Internet On-line banking (which I use extensively with my UK and Spanish bank accounts (from here in Thailand) are VERY MUCH geared to current accounts (not savings which are very restricted).

Not the case in Thailand. Savings accounts can be used without problems both for setting up Direct Debit agreements and for On-line banking. They use of them are not restricted.

Sophon

[Maestro]

Internet On-line banking

Thai banks in general, including Bangkok Bank, have a primitive and thus not very secure login procedure. Even if you were offered online access you would be better advised not to accept it. Mind you, the US banks I use have the same primitive system: just a username, fixed by the bank, and a password, changeable by me. However, I would feel less safe using online banking with a Thai bank.

--------------

Maestro

[johnnyk]

Internet On-line banking

Thai banks in general, including Bangkok Bank, have a primitive and thus not very secure login procedure. Even if you were offered online access you would be better advised not to accept it. Mind you, the US banks I use have the same primitive system: just a username, fixed by the bank, and a password, changeable by me. However, I would feel less safe using online banking with a Thai bank.

--------------

Maestro

Kasikorn Bank use a one-time only PW system

You log on with user name and PW.

When you want to do an online transaction you click the box and they text a single-use PW to your mobile. You have 6 minutes to enter the PW in the on-screen box after which the PW and your transaction expire and you have to start over again.

Seems pretty safe to me.

[Maestro]

Kasikorn Bank use a one-time only PW system

You log on with user name and PW.

When you want to do an online transaction you click the box and they text a single-use PW to your mobile. You have 6 minutes to enter the PW in the on-screen box after which the PW and your transaction expire and you have to start over again.

Seems pretty safe to me.

Yes, this is definitely an improvement from the system that Bangkok Bank is using.

---------------

Maestro

[dsfbrit]

Additionally I wish to open a Thai Current bank account and get a THAI Visa card with a Thai billing address of course.

My UK bank will not accept a Thai address so ANY Visa orders have to be delivered to the UK address they HAVE accepted for me (crazy but they fear Frauds with Thai addresses).

I am a Brit who was the victim of identity theft - a long story which I wont bother you with here. You are absolutely right to want to do everything by the book.

I am not a financial expert but have learnt the following.

If you have money in the UK you will want to access it online from Thailand and security is a high priority.

If you are with a bank in the UK that is not 'non resident' friendly I would change your bank in the UK now to one that is. For example, if you are the victim of fraud then you may have problems claiming if they deem the fraud to be your fault.

I am now with Halifax Bank Of Scotland - they are OK with non-residents, provide online internet access and good interest rates and have a no quibble guarantee if your money is stolen.

You do need to open an account before you give up your UK residency though.

Also HSBC has banks in the UK AND Thailand - I have an account with HSBC in Bangkok and the UK, which is a safe way to transfer money knowing that if it gets 'lost' I am dealing with just one bank, so they cannot blame the 'other' bank for problems!!

Also, if you have an address in the UK then you may have difficulty NOT paying UK tax. You can of course reclaim tax from the Inland Revenue online now.

Even many offshore accounts with a UK address now have to pay UK tax - a nice new law between

the offshore havens and the UK Inland Revenue.

good luck

[tim77]

My main advice to you is to stop worrying!

Forget about tax for a start; the only tax you will pay will be a 15% withholding deduction at source on bank interest. As you now have a ‘retirement visa’ you are prohibited from working, so paying income tax should not come into the equation.

As for a current account, the only account you are likely to get without a work permit (which de facto

Do not concern yourself any further; relax and enjoy your new home!

Be careful about forgetting tax . . . An individual who is present in Thailand for at least 180 days in any calendar year is treated as a resident of Thailand. As I understand it, tax residents are subject to Thai income tax on any income from foreign sources that they bring into Thailand. As I understand it, taxable income includes payment for services, dividends, interest, rental income, and most capital gain. You may wish to check with a Thai tax advisor.

[jerry921]

An individual who is present in Thailand for at least 180 days in any calendar year ...

Now that's a nice gotcha. Suppose two countries had that law and you stayed 182 days in one and 183 in the other...

Doing internet banking from a computer in an internet cafe is highly dangerous (no matter what country). The chances of a keylogger present on that computer are too high to ignore. Even using your own laptop and their internet connection is dangerous, since they could simply look over your shoulder using a security camera in the ceiling.

But assuming you use your own computer from your in-law's house, keep your virus protection and spyware checking current, use a non-trival password, and change it regularly, your biggest risk is probably not computer related.

[JonnieB]

Hi,

I have today applied for my Retirement extension Visa (form a 90 day Non immigrant 'O" visa and had it accepted I now can stay here until August 2007.

1) I now wish to get on the Thai Taxation system which I assume I am obliged to do when I have been here over 185 days in the current year and intend to continue living here (my primary residence in Spain is up for Sale), but I do not know what to do OR what order OR how to go about it.

I agree...chill-out man.

And by the way, you are already on the Thai tax rolls...have you ever looked at a bill for any good or service you have purchased in Thailand? Ever notice that little line at the bottom that says VAT 7%!!!

In addition, if you end up buying a car, besides that nice 7% to the government, you will also register it annually and pay a several thousand baht fee (i.e., road tax) at that time.

And don't forget, you get to pay all these taxes and of course still not qualify for B30 health care cards and you also get the priviledge of paying B400 to enter a national park (verses B40 for Thai nationals).

Some people get worried about the language about having to show tax payment receipts at the airport when leaving the country if you have stayed over 90 days at a time. Like mentioned by others, that is for foreigners working in Thailand (not for retirees, who are not supposed to be working).

So just sit back and enjoy your retirement.

[lopburi3]

In answer to OP:

1. (i)There is no requirement to be on the Thai tax rolls if you do not have income here on a retirement type visa - as long as the money you bring into the country to live on is savings from a previous tax year Thailand is not interested in taxing it. In many cases there are also dual taxation treaties that would prevent double tax in any case.

(ii)Current accounts are not normally held by anyone other that business/work permit holders. What you use here is called a passbook savings account and you access funds at bank or by ATM card. Checks are not used by many, or accepted by many, so it is no loss not to have them. Payment for most public services can be made by phone or ATM so even online access is not that important.

(iii)Believe certificate of residency can be issued by your Embassy. Immigration can also issue but this should be after doing 90 day report.

2. Work permit is required. There may be exceptions but they are few and far between.

3. It has happened but only after extensive trial and error. No reason for it and it is not expected. But the home owner should report your residence to the police but again very few outside of hotels/apartments are going to know about it and you are not likely to convince your aunt to do so.

[gdhm]

In answer to OP:

1. (i)There is no requirement to be on the Thai tax rolls if you do not have income here on a retirement type visa - as long as the money you bring into the country to live on is savings from a previous tax year Thailand is not interested in taxing it. In many cases there are also dual taxation treaties that would prevent double tax in any case.

(ii)Current accounts are not normally held by anyone other that business/work permit holders. What you use here is called a passbook savings account and you access funds at bank or by ATM card. Checks are not used by many, or accepted by many, so it is no loss not to have them. Payment for most public services can be made by phone or ATM so even online access is not that important.

(iii)Believe certificate of residency can be issued by your Embassy. Immigration can also issue but this should be after doing 90 day report.

2. Work permit is required. There may be exceptions but they are few and far between.

3. It has happened but only after extensive trial and error. No reason for it and it is not expected. But the home owner should report your residence to the police but again very few outside of hotels/apartments are going to know about it and you are not likely to convince your aunt to do so.

Hi Lopburi3, My Pension is paid monthly so it is not from a previous year or savings. I am not worried about THIS tax year to date BUT my belief and understanding is that if I am resident in Thailand 365 days of a year I come under Thailand for tax. There is a non double taxation agreement between the UK and Thailand AND MY Pension Company are perfectly happy and able to pay my pension Gross of UK Tax if they have been informed by the UK Inland Revenue I have completed the necessary double taxation forms and if Thailand has advised the UK that I have been accepted under the Thai tax system.

Taxation in Thailand is NOT only what I think I am legally obliged to arrange BUT its also cheaper for me I will have about 2,000 baht MORE a month than if I continue to be taxed by UK. I have during the last 4 years been a resident of Spain (not UK)

One thing I am certain about is that my income is high enough to have tax deducted either by UK or Thailand otherwise I would be "evading tax". I therefore think I am obliged to get on the Thailand tax system as I will be permanently resident here and pay the tax on my pension income to Thailand

**

OK I will not worry about the current account. I was NOT interested in a cheque book anyway. I only really wanted to monitor my account by Internet On-line and pay my bills by direct debit where companies have set up arrangements to be able to do so.

**

DSFBRIT, I am not resident in the UK so I cannot open another UK bank account (even with my current bank).

I will never leave Nationwide Building Society whilst they are the ONLY UK bank that allows me to use ATM current account debit cards all over the world without paying 1 penny commission or bank charges. Additionally, the exchange rate they use is very close the genuine inter bank exchange rates and NOT anywhere near tourist rates.

Regards to all for all the info.

Dave

[kudroz]

1) I now wish to get on the Thai Taxation system which I assume I am obliged to do when I have been here over 185 days in the current year and intend to continue living here (my primary residence in Spain is up for Sale)

Be very careful of these laid-back farangs who advise you not to worry. It is always better to go by the book and do everything legal. If your stay in Thailand aggreagates to more than 185 days in a calendar year, you are deemed resident in Thailand for tax purposes. This means, you are liable to pay tax on your Thai source of income (remitted in Thailand or abroad) and your worldwide income brought into Thailand the same year that such income is earned.

If let's say you receive passive income - you will be liable to pay tax on this income for the portion of that income you bring into Thailand.

(read here, "passive income").

If you live in Thailand and you manage a business operation while being in Thailand (like operating a website while in Thailand that earns foreign income deposited abroad) then your are liable to pay tax on such income. If you are managing a juristic entity while in Thailand, this juristic entity will be liable to pay taxes in Thailand for the income believed to be connected to the management in Thailand.

(read here, "manage a business operation while being in Thailand")

If you have capital gains in a jurisdiction where you are not a citizen nor a resident, you are not likely (depends on which jurisdiction) to be liable to pay taxes in such jurisdiction. In that case, you will be liable to pay taxes in Thailand if you bring such income in the country in the same year it was earned. If you do not bring that income in Thailand - I.e: You earn capital gains in USA. This income is remitted into a Singapore bank account. You wouldn't be liable for taxes in Thailand.

(read here, "where you are not a citizen nor a resident")

Notes: I don't know about Spain per se, but certain countries will force tax on its citizen if the income arised or derrived in the country of citizenship. You might want to check if Spain levy taxes on capital gains who are deemed non-resident for tax purposes. *the USA is completly different as well*

[...] but I do not know what to do OR what order OR how to go about it.

You need to get a Tax ID in Thailand. They are very reluctant or inexperienced to issue a Tax ID to a foreigner who do not posses a work permit. I would suggest you give a call to the Thai Revenue Department and ask them how to obtain such ID. They might tell you that you do not need one because you do not work in Thailand, but don't be affraid to push and educate them on their own tax laws. If you fail or they are being too difficult, I'd suggest you get the help of a law firm to obtain your Tax ID.

Additionally I wish to open a Thai Current bank account and get a THAI Visa card with a Thai billing address of course. My UK bank will not accept a Thai address so ANY Visa orders have to be delivered to the UK address they HAVE accepted for me (crazy but they fear Frauds with Thai addresses).

If you wish to have a current account along with a cheque book, it might be difficult to do without a work permit. Certain banks will only give a current account to sole-proprietorship and business. Although, with most banks you can have a saving account that you can access online, pay bills and that has a visa electron or mastercard electronic debit card. I would recommend Kasikorn Bank, they can open you a saving account and will issue you a Visa Electron debit card. Siam Commercial Bank offers the same as well with a Mastercard Electronic debit card.

But I'd go with Kasikorn Bank because they have a virtual Visa card called "Web Card" that allows you to use it for online purchases. (Visa Electron and Mastercard Electronic are not accepted online).

What exactly is a "Certificate of Residency. IF I should have/ should get one how do I go about getting it and why doe I need it and is it mandatory?

A "Certificate of Residency" is a document that is useful for a foreigner when you need to prove your residence in Thailand for opening Bank Accounts (offshore or sometimes in Thailand), Driver License, buying a vehicle, etc. The certificate is an alternative to the "Tabian Baan" (or house registration certificate). To obtain one you will need to fill this form and go to the immigration bureau of your district. Not every bureau asks for the same things, some will ask for a copy of the "Tabian Baan" of the house where you reside along with a letter indicating that you are living there (indicating your passport number). Sometimes they will require the owner to go at the bureau with you, etc. It would be better if you call the immigration bureau in your district and ask for the required documents along with your application for the certificate of residency.

2) Are foreigners not allowed to open any Thai Bank Current Accounts based on a Retirement Visa. What have other members of the Forum Had to produce if they live in Thailand on a Retirement Visa?

You can open a current account if you poses a work permit. A current account is the same as a saving accounts, but instead of having a "Bank Book" - you have the option of receiving statement by mail and have a cheque book. If you can provide a "Tabian Baan" or a "Certificate of Residency" certain branch/bank will let you open a current account.

i) Am I allowed to be on their House registration document, or is that only when I on my own home (I know I cannot own the land its on) or if I am a Thai National?

Yes you can be a dependant of the owner of the tabian baan (house registration book).

If answer to i) is YES. Am I supposed to be on my Aunt's House register? or is it not mandatory?

It is not mendatory.

If its not mandatory, but permissible, what are the benefits/problems by registering?

A certificate of residency (explained above) - do the same thing and is generaly easier to obtain (the certificate of residency deals with the immigration bureau, while the tabian baan is with your amphur).

iii) If I should be on it, what do I need to do and what do I need to produce and where do I need to go?.

If you wife is on the tabian baan (house registration book) as being a "dependant" of the owner (or your wife is the owner) - you can be included in the tabian baan. Although, I must stress that every Amphur seems to aproach this situation differently. Generaly because you are a foreigner, they will give you a yellow tabian baan book (instead of being blue like your wife's aunt) - which stipulates inside that you cannot buy/own land and you will be reffered as being a "dependant" of that other book. To obtain this, you'll need to go at the amphur in the district where your house is located along with the owner of the tabian baan.

[gdhm]

Hello kudroz,

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the wonderfully detailed, easy to follow and precise information you have given to me.

I greatly appreciate your time and effort and it will not go to waste.

I will do as you have suggested about the taxation as I feel sure it is the legal (and the Moral thing to do)

Kindest Regards

Dave

[Firefan]

Kudroz; thanks for the detailed answer.

Many here live here full time and live of their investments based in the US/EU/other places.

How do one go about figuring out with that $1 was "earned the same year" or not? Example: an investor have $150k and earns $15k/year and wires $12k to Thailand each year to live of. Some years he loses money but still wires $12k.

For tax purposes it only makes sense that first in/first out should be the principle, which means that almost all investors/retirees(exception being pension payments) will not be taxed on money wired in, as the $150k have been in the account for years, and the newly earned money stays in the account (at least for that year).

Cheers!

[kudroz]

Kudroz; thanks for the detailed answer.

Many here live here full time and live of their investments based in the US/EU/other places.

How do one go about figuring out with that $1 was "earned the same year" or not? Example: an investor have $150k and earns $15k/year and wires $12k to Thailand each year to live of. Some years he loses money but still wires $12k.

For tax purposes it only makes sense that first in/first out should be the principle, which means that almost all investors/retirees(exception being pension payments) will not be taxed on money wired in, as the $150k have been in the account for years, and the newly earned money stays in the account (at least for that year).

Cheers!

If you bring in Thailand earnings from a previous year, you are not liable for taxes in Thailand.

If you have invested your earnings from previous or current years and your invested earnings generates interest and dividend income (or other capital gains) - you will be liable for taxes if such income is brought into Thailand the same year that the interest and dividend income was earned.

I.e:

Fiscal year of 2006

You have $100,000 invested into a $5% saving account (income accumulated from previous years)

you have earned $5,000 from $100,000 invested.

you bring into Thailand $25,000

You will be liable to pay taxes in Thailand on $5,000.

It is my understanding that if you have earnings in a fiscal year, and you bring money in Thailand that same year - they will assume the money you bring in Thailand to be your earned income.

I am not a tax attorney, but for precise advice I would recommend talking with a law or accounting firm such as KPMG or Tilleke and Gibbins in Bangkok.

Edited September 26, 2006 by kudroz

[LoveDaBlues]

I think there is a lot of 'guessing' going on here concerning taxes. I am a US Citizen. I have income in the USA from various sources including a pension. I pay taxes to Uncle Sammy on this income. The USA and Thailand have a dual taxation treaty which basically means you aren't taxed twice by the respective countries.

If I'm wrong then every farang I know from the USA will be in trouble if the Thai Tax Man decides to crack down because none of us pays Thai income taxes.

[LoveDaBlues]

Kudroz; thanks for the detailed answer.

Many here live here full time and live of their investments based in the US/EU/other places.

How do one go about figuring out with that $1 was "earned the same year" or not? Example: an investor have $150k and earns $15k/year and wires $12k to Thailand each year to live of. Some years he loses money but still wires $12k.

For tax purposes it only makes sense that first in/first out should be the principle, which means that almost all investors/retirees(exception being pension payments) will not be taxed on money wired in, as the $150k have been in the account for years, and the newly earned money stays in the account (at least for that year).

Cheers!

Firefan, to take your logic even further pension payments are 'old money' too that has been paid into the pension system for many years (normally decades) on behalf of each pensioner. This pool of money is invested just as a single independant investor would do. So when the pensioner actually begins to draw in his later years he is drawing 'old money'.

IMO none of this really matters as I think the dual taxation treaty covers money earned/taxed.

[kudroz]

I think there is a lot of 'guessing' going on here concerning taxes. I am a US Citizen. I have income in the USA from various sources including a pension. I pay taxes to Uncle Sammy on this income. The USA and Thailand have a dual taxation treaty which basically means you aren't taxed twice by the respective countries.

If I'm wrong then every farang I know from the USA will be in trouble if the Thai Tax Man decides to crack down because none of us pays Thai income taxes.

The purpose of a double tax traty is to establish under which jurisdiction income will be taxed.

As an American citizen, you are liable to pay taxes on your worldwide income even though you are resident in Thailand for tax purposes. Although, you can claim a $80,000 deduction providing you did not sojourn in the US for more than 30 days in that fiscal year.

(read, worldwide income - not US source income).

US source income will be taxed in the US because you are an American citizen - thus why you do not have to pay taxes in Thailand. Although, technically you should still file a return in Thailand because you are a tax resident in Thailand and provide proof that you income has already been taxed in a country who has a double tax treaty with Thailand.

[LoveDaBlues]

I think there is a lot of 'guessing' going on here concerning taxes. I am a US Citizen. I have income in the USA from various sources including a pension. I pay taxes to Uncle Sammy on this income. The USA and Thailand have a dual taxation treaty which basically means you aren't taxed twice by the respective countries.

If I'm wrong then every farang I know from the USA will be in trouble if the Thai Tax Man decides to crack down because none of us pays Thai income taxes.

The purpose of a double tax traty is to establish under which jurisdiction income will be taxed.

As an American citizen, you are liable to pay taxes on your worldwide income even though you are resident in Thailand for tax purposes. Although, you can claim a $80,000 deduction providing you did not sojourn in the US for more than 30 days in that fiscal year.

(read, worldwide income - not US source income).

US source income will be taxed in the US because you are an American citizen - thus why you do not have to pay taxes in Thailand. Although, technically you should still file a return in Thailand because you are a tax resident in Thailand and provide proof that you income has already been taxed in a country who has a double tax treaty with Thailand.

kudroz quote:

If you have invested your earnings from previous or current years and your invested earnings generates interest and dividend income (or other capital gains) - you will be liable for taxes if such income is brought into Thailand the same year that the interest and dividend income was earned.

I fall into the above (in red). I pay taxes on this income in the US. So what is it.....I do or don't owe Thailand taxes?

[Naam]

Hi,

I have today applied for my Retirement extension Visa (form a 90 day Non immigrant 'O" visa and had it accepted I now can stay here until August 2007.

1) I now wish to get on the Thai Taxation system which I assume I am obliged to do when I have been here over 185 days in the current year and intend to continue living here (my primary residence in Spain is up for Sale), but I do not know what to do OR what order OR how to go about it.

Additionally I wish to open a Thai Current bank account and get a THAI Visa card with a Thai billing address of course.

My UK bank will not accept a Thai address so ANY Visa orders have to be delivered to the UK address they HAVE accepted for me (crazy but they fear Frauds with Thai addresses).

On the Bangkok Bank website, Bangkok bank talks about producing a Work permit (of course I cannot I am not permitted to work having a Retirement Visa) for on-line baning they ask for the work permit OR for a Certificate of Residency. What exactly is a "Certificate of Residency.

IF I should have/ should get one how do I go about getting it and why doe I need it and is it mandatory?

2) Are foreigners not allowed to open any Thai Bank Current Accounts based on a Retirement Visa. What have other members of the Forum Had to produce if they live in Thailand on a Retirement Visa?

3) I live with my wife in her Aunt's house.

i) Am I allowed to be on their House registration document, or is that only when I on my own home (I know I cannot own the land its on) or if I am a Thai National?

ii) If answer to i) is YES.

Am I supposed to be on my Aunt's House register? or is it not mandatory?

If its not mandatory, but permissible, what are the benefits/problems by registering?

iii) If I should be on it, what do I need to do and what do I need to produce and where do I need to go?.

BOTTOM LINE with all 3 questions is that I wish to do the correct and legal thing, and as quickly as I should do so.

Any information, pointers or advice will be much appreciated.

I know about 90 reporting, but if there any other things a new Retirement Visa holder is obliged to please also advise. I would hate to do the wrong thing, or not do something due to ignorance.

My Thai family certainly have no idea what is required. I already suspect my wife's Aunt should have declared to "somebody' that I am living in her house and have been doing so for 4 months plus. I did mention this to her (read it somewhere) but no interest or concern was shown.

Regards

Dave

My main advice to you is to stop worrying!

Forget about tax for a start; the only tax you will pay will be a 15% withholding deduction at source on bank interest. As you now have a ‘retirement visa’ you are prohibited from working, so paying income tax should not come into the equation.

As for a current account, the only account you are likely to get without a work permit (which de facto you cannot have) is of the savings deposit variety (no cheque book).

Do you not have a Thai bank account already?

Forget about being on your Aunt’s ‘house paper’. Having a ‘retirement visa’ will require you to report your intention to stay in the Kingdom for more than 90 days. The TM 47 form by which you do that also requires you to give your current address to the Immigration Bureau. That is all as you need do. A Certificate of Residence is only required should you want to apply for a Thai Driving Licence, buy a car in your own name etc. You can readily get one from the Immigration Bureau should the need arise.

Do not concern yourself any further; relax and enjoy your new home!

[Naam]

"Forget about tax for a start; the only tax you will pay will be a 15% withholding deduction at source on bank interest."

that's what everybody whom i ask keeps on telling me. the facts are different.

quote: Taxpayers are classified into "resident" and "non-resident". "Resident" means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand on a cash basis, regardless where the money is paid, as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

[kudroz]

kudroz quote:

If you have invested your earnings from previous or current years and your invested earnings generates interest and dividend income (or other capital gains) - you will be liable for taxes if such income is brought into Thailand the same year that the interest and dividend income was earned.

I fall into the above (in red). I pay taxes on this income in the US. So what is it.....I do or don't owe Thailand taxes?

Because you are a US citizen, your US source income is subject to tax at the source. Because you have paid taxes on your income already, the double tax treaty with Thailand says that such income should not be taxed in Thailand again.

Now, let's say your investments are held in Canada and not in the US. Your income would not be taxed in Canada (nor in the US if less than $80,000) and you would be liable to pay taxes only in Thailand on the part you bring into the country.

Note: American citizens are taxed on their worldwide income regardless of their tax residence. Although, you can apply for a $80,000 exclusion if you have not sojourned more than 30 days in the US for that fiscal year) *edited for clarity

Edited September 26, 2006 by kudroz

[LoveDaBlues]

kudroz quote:

If you have invested your earnings from previous or current years and your invested earnings generates interest and dividend income (or other capital gains) - you will be liable for taxes if such income is brought into Thailand the same year that the interest and dividend income was earned.

I fall into the above (in red). I pay taxes on this income in the US. So what is it.....I do or don't owe Thailand taxes?

Because you are a US citizen, your US source income is subject to tax at the source. Because you have paid taxes on your income already, the double tax treaty with Thailand says that such income should not be taxed in Thailand again.

Now, let's say your investments are held in Canada and not in the US. Your income would not be taxed in Canada (nor in the US if less than $80,000) and you would be liable to pay taxes only in Thailand on the part you bring into the country.

Note: American citizens are taxed on their worldwide income regardless of their tax residence. Although, you can apply for a $80,000 exclusion if you have not sojourned more than 30 days in the US for that fiscal year) *edited for clarity

Thanks for this explanation. NOW I understand.