Do they want farang retirees here?

[Gecko123]

OP:

Who is "they"? Are you talking about immigration, or Thais in general?

If you're talking about immigration, I would say most Westerners are held in relatively high esteem. Someone told me that they asked an immigration officer how they felt about retirees, and the response was they loved them because they never caused any problems for the police.

If you're talking about Thais in general, I'd say individual behavior has a lot to do with whether people enjoy your presence. Try smiling more.

[yellowboat]

No, you are not really all that welcomed. Thinking, reasonable people tend to upset the delicate nature of childish power structure of Thailand. My 85 year old pal moved to Cambodia and enjoys Thailand 4 months a year or so. If you play the game there way, you will be frustrated and unhappy.

[recycler]

The Thai government does not have a general feeling they are Generals and therefore have no feeling.

[superal]

You invite yourself. 'Nuff said.

I'm not complaining. I only wanted to know what the party line is..maybe there isn't one. And before any of the other "if u don't like it leave" people who generally don't have any facts, information or anything useful or positive to add jump in....I come from Australia...a country who spends a huge percentage of taxpayers (my) dollars on accommodating and appeasing immigrants and refugees including a large Thai population...to the point you probably have more rights being a foreigner. I'm not the type to go to another country to live and bitterly complain things not like home but there is another side to that story often forgotten here

Same applies for sure as the UK . The world is turning into a global melting pot and that's not natural .

But back to the post and things have changed a lot in Thailand over the last 10 or 20 years for the falang and other Asian countries are more receptive to retirees , inasmuch the cost of living , property/ land ownership and uncomplicated and often more generous visa systems .Thailand tourism is well promoted and valued with many visitors liking to be entertained by the ladies of Thailand . Now what we have is the army government clamping down on drinking establishments and whatever goes with them , to the disappointment of tourists and resident retirees alike . Reporting to the local immigration is now reintroduced on your arrival back into Thailand . There are many double standards where the falang pays more than a Thai , and so on etc . There is no doubt that foreign retirees make a significant contribution to the Thai economy but there seems to be little or no regards for this and there are no rights to be had here for the falang so you just have to be smart , street wise and one step ahead . We are tolerated and visa versa . However I agree with Jingthing and the world is changing and there are worse places to live . Rather be here than the UK but other Asian countries may tempt me to take a look .

[sawadee1947]

thet don't want us here. Otherwise they would allow us to buy house/land to have a secured and safe life up to the end. They are only looking how to get our money. The best would be for them we would leave our money here and dissapear or die!

[glasswort]

They don't want us here, they only tolerate us. If they could find a way of extracting our money from us whilst we lived in another country, they'd be over the moon.

The experience at Immigration really shows the contempt they have for us: elderly people forced to wait for hours to get an extension, pointless 90 day reporting (and the steep costs if one accidentally misses a report), reentry permits which are simply designed to extract more money from us, &c., &c.. Only those who fork out the big bucks for the Elite scheme get anything remotely approaching humane treatment, the impossibility for unmarried retirees to get PR (and it's hard enough for the young and married).

Heaven only knows where you go to do your ninety day reporting or your yearly extension of stay. My personal experience over the past five years at Jomtien, is that ninety day reporting takes around ten minutes and extension of stay based on retirement no more than an hour. I have never been treated with contempt and maybe that is because I dress smartly and treat the staff with respect. If you choose to live in a foreign country then either abide by the rules or go somewhere else. Your references to they, they, they just sums up your totally negative attitude.

[jcisco]

You invite yourself. 'Nuff said.

I'm not complaining. I only wanted to know what the party line is..maybe there isn't one. And before any of the other "if u don't like it leave" people who generally don't have any facts, information or anything useful or positive to add jump in....I come from Australia...a country who spends a huge percentage of taxpayers (my) dollars on accommodating and appeasing immigrants and refugees including a large Thai population...to the point you probably have more rights being a foreigner. I'm not the type to go to another country to live and bitterly complain things not like home but there is another side to that story often forgotten here

Same applies for sure as the UK . The world is turning into a global melting pot and that's not natural .

But back to the post and things have changed a lot in Thailand over the last 10 or 20 years for the falang and other Asian countries are more receptive to retirees , inasmuch the cost of living , property/ land ownership and uncomplicated and often more generous visa systems .Thailand tourism is well promoted and valued with many visitors liking to be entertained by the ladies of Thailand . Now what we have is the army government clamping down on drinking establishments and whatever goes with them , to the disappointment of tourists and resident retirees alike . Reporting to the local immigration is now reintroduced on your arrival back into Thailand . There are many double standards where the falang pays more than a Thai , and so on etc . There is no doubt that foreign retirees make a significant contribution to the Thai economy but there seems to be little or no regards for this and there are no rights to be had here for the falang so you just have to be smart , street wise and one step ahead . We are tolerated and visa versa . However I agree with Jingthing and the world is changing and there are worse places to live . Rather be here than the UK but other Asian countries may tempt me to take a look .

We are all human, so is it unnatural for s to mix with our own kind regardless of what particular culture one hails from. I have lived most of my adult life outside or m home country in various countries and cultures. Some of them rather alien, and I see now more than ever we are far more alike than we are different. The manner in which the values of each person are expressed can be vastly different, doesn't make it any less alike.

Unfortunately we also express our flaws as humans far more than anything else. So naturally saying it is unnatural for people to be mixing is right on the money for what I've heard bigots, racists and others looking to find division to say. No matter what culture or country they come from, same baseless arguments and fears.

[Doc46]

Nah ,only our money!

[SoiBiker]

I don't get it. They let you live here, what more do you want? A trail of rose petals at the airport? Free hand jobs at immigration?

[Kannikapor88]

I think Jomtien Immigration office must be one of, if not the most 'customer friendly' office in Thailand. I've never had an issue with them, but I still hate having to go there, because I know they could, at a whim, terminate my stay here in LOS. It's a bit like going to the dentist, and wondering when/whether they'll inflict pain by touching a sensitive nerve whilst probing around, even though you're only going for a check-up and clean.

Lucky that you dont live in Chiang Mai with the worst Immigration in Thailand, making their own rules and Laws as they go by ...

To visit CM Immigration is like having a root Canal treatment - just a pain in the a.. those people

[sitti]

Nah ,only our money!

Can you think of any reason why would any country want to allow foreigner without money to enter their country?

Edited September 5, 2015 by sitti

[Gecko123]

If you want to feel wanted, go rob a bank.

[mikiea]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

you are one lucky putz................

[bbbbooboo]

My impression over the years is they barely put up with us on any visa and extract as much money out of us as possible. On the positive side I get what I want (relatively cheaply)and from that perspective I don't give a fig about this attitude. Embellishment probably isn't necessary

[SantiSuk]

Lots of sensitive flowers on here thinking they are going to be kicked out on a whim at an immigration office. Must be hell in some of those big falang hangout sheds operated by immigration.

If it troubles you so much then why not move to a more gentle environment like Isaan. If you went to immigration in Sisaket you would probably (more than 50% chance IME) be the only one in the office, apart from the smiling female immigration police sergeant (plus a couple of juniors to do the coping etc) who would deal with you as a fellow human being and helpfully do anything you have trouble with for you.

[Muzarella]

Too much generalization here about the problem.

All depends where the immigration office is located, and specially if you do speak Thai or not, and your attitude. Government employees salaries are very low in many "3rd world countries" and depends of external "help". Thai people always give a "present" in same way... without asked about...and can be just a smile. a joke, or a gossip..no always money. Waiting time is the same for Thai people, the only exception are the "reps" from visa service offices. Anyway, I agree that offices in some very busy tourist and expat areas are not prepared for the transit.

Property ownership. work rights, and visas and citizenship limits, could be better regulated, but it is need it.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Muzarella

[mgjackson69]

thet don't want us here. Otherwise they would allow us to buy house/land to have a secured and safe life up to the end. They are only looking how to get our money. The best would be for them we would leave our money here and dissapear or die!

I am not sure why people get so hung up on the owning land/house thing.

If the Thai government decides that foreigners are not welcome, they are not going to give one tin shit about whether you own land or a house here. In fact, you would be out more, because now that investment you made would go to ???? when they ship you out.

On the flip side of this argument, I have never understood why people in other countries get so wound up when foreigners come in and buy up properties...what are they going to do, take it with them? The Japanese lost their asses buying up expensive properties in USA years ago when the real estate market subsequently regressed.

At the core, we do not own real estate, we rent it from the government...that is what our tax payments are, in effect.

[Saan]

They don't want us here, they only tolerate us. If they could find a way of extracting our money from us whilst we lived in another country, they'd be over the moon.

The experience at Immigration really shows the contempt they have for us: elderly people forced to wait for hours to get an extension, pointless 90 day reporting (and the steep costs if one accidentally misses a report), reentry permits which are simply designed to extract more money from us, &c., &c.. Only those who fork out the big bucks for the Elite scheme get anything remotely approaching humane treatment, the impossibility for unmarried retirees to get PR (and it's hard enough for the young and married).

Heaven only knows where you go to do your ninety day reporting or your yearly extension of stay. My personal experience over the past five years at Jomtien, is that ninety day reporting takes around ten minutes and extension of stay based on retirement no more than an hour. I have never been treated with contempt and maybe that is because I dress smartly and treat the staff with respect. If you choose to live in a foreign country then either abide by the rules or go somewhere else. Your references to they, they, they just sums up your totally negative attitude.

Things have changed for the worse at Chiang Mai immigration with day waits for retirement and many hours for 90 days. Expats are arriving at 5 am to gets one of the few tickets that are handed out for interviews. Many people are concerned about it because much of it is needless and it is hardship for many.

As far as the people who work in Immigration that I have come in contact with, they have been extraordinarily helpful and pleasant.

[billd766]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

duel pricing what's that?

I only hope you have enough money to keep you going should your wife die first.

Knew a farang on a married mans visa, had the 400k in the bank, his mrs died, he didnt have the 800k to apply for a ret't visa.

Dual pricing, wait till the visa rules are changed, oh ret't visa that will be 2 million please.

Married mans visa, oh that will be 1 million please.

And of course you know this for a fact and have the links and references to prove it?

Yes I know the farang concerned, he was gobsmacked, good manners and decorm prevent me from naming him.

Links to prove it, just check out the previous sums of money required for a visa, they have doubled at least, please feel free to point me in the direction of where they have come down.

I sure am glad I aint hoping for a "grandfather clause", never mind, up to you.

Actually I didn't make myself very clear in my post. I am sorry about that. I was referring to you saying that the sums for a visa will double.

The last time was about 10 years ago I think.

I know that they haven't gone down but at the same time the cost of living has risen a fair amount in that time and many (but not all) farangs income has risen also.

[Jonathon]

with all respect that may be more of a personal opinion rather than govt policy. Same as Ur treatment at immigration probably more a reflection of the individual or general work ethic of govt "service" depts. I have to say most at Khonkaen office brilliant and actually seem to enjoy their day.

The govt must have some policy or outlook towards retirees. It must boost the economy / modernise the locale in some areas and that seems to be what they want now.

Where I come from actions speak louder that words. Successive governments have done very little to get rid of the pointless bureaucracy and inefficient procedures that make life unpleasant for expats.

Sheryl in a recent post mentioned how it took her several days of travel and effort for each annual extension. Another poster said he was suddenly faced, after 10 years of married life here with loads of additional requirements for extension, including intrusive questioning into his sex life. When I did my last extension at Chaeng Wattana (which only took 7 hours of waiting), there was an elderly, very frail man in a wheelchair. He arrived after me, by which time the queue had built up even more. It's simply inhumane treatment and shows official contempt for the service users. If I had to point to improvements over the last ten years I can only think of a few that have benefited me: opening more provincial offices, appointment booking for extensions at Chaeng Wattana (which worked for less than a month before being scrapped), 90 day reporting online. No change in policy at all that I can bring to mind.

As for government policy, well they pour vast sums of money into the Tourist Authority of Thailand, which seems at best to be very ineffectual. They (the government) don't do anything to promote retirement in Thailand. (Compare with our neighbour next door with "Malaysia my second home", which includes a 10 year visa, allows property ownership, tax-free import of a car, a national ID card, part time working, tax free interest on bank accounts, and all required documentation can be provided in English.)

So, whilst retirees may well boost the economy, governmental xenophobia means that they don't want to promote long staying foreigners. In their minds the tourists who come for a fortnight and quickly dump all their cash here is what is wanted.

Whatever one thinks of the colonial past, Malaysia and many other places are better managed because of what they learnt from their past European colonisers, particularly in the area of democracy.

Thailand of course "has never been colonised" unless one counts the insidious invasion by the Chinese and the influence bought by the Japanese.

I have heard Malaysia mentioned before as a better place to retire, but I have family commitments here as do many of us.

[Ulic]

Do they want Farangs here.......not really but a necessary evil if you want there money.

What more needs to be said.

[pgrahmm]

If they really didn't the visas would not be made available to citizens of some/specified countries.....

Edited September 5, 2015 by pgrahmm

[Jingthing]

Welcome is about more than offering visas.

[pgrahmm]

Welcome is about more than offering visas.

That is correct, however, I think the OP's original question broached that question with concern to the government.....

[thaimlord]

Oh man, not again.

I'm at a loss as to what retirees think they should be entitled to here? You can't turn up on someone's doorstep and then criticise the hospitality they provide or the manner in which they provide it.

I'm not really one of the "if you don't like it, get lost" crowd but I really do think that more than a few people need to be booking flights elsewhere.

And before anyone rocks up with the classic "Oh I've put down roots/started a business/married a local/had kids" bullshit, remember that nobody FORCED you to do any of that so you can't expect the authorities to legislate in a way that absolves you of the consequences of your own life decisions.

Every last one of you - hell, every last one of us because non-retirees have to jump through the hoops too - was aware of the immigration rules governing our stay in the Kingdom when we arrived.

We elected to remain anyway.

Suck it up and stop bitching

I'm not one to easily give the useless post with simply a +1

But I have to say you have hit it right on the head, Cypress Hill. Suck it up OP, or piss off. The rest of us are just not interested in your whinging.

TL

[elviajero]

Do they want farang retirees here?

I think it's more that they don't not want retirees here. The government of every country has a duty to its citizens to have and control immigration policy, but other than the bureaucratic issues, which aren't specific to dealing with foreigners, if you're over 50 and can put 800k in the bank it's easy to stay here indefinitely.

Every now and then it hits me nothing more than a guest here and those rights can be taken away anytime. Will they ever make it easier and more permanent to live here aka visa requirements, land ownership etc

Has something changed since you first came here that prompts this epiphany, or when you decided to get your visa and set down roots did you know the immigration policy?

The immigration policy is such that you can stay here forever and all you need to do is spend a few hours once a year so that they can check you still qualify. Whats the big deal!

I doubt they'll ever give PR to retirees and not allowing foreigners to own land is the right thing for the country. If anything ​I think the rules will toughen up in years to come just because they will have to cull the numbers some how.

Immigration law is old and does need updating and not necessarily to our benefit. Keeping people on a short leash but at the same time giving the possibility of indefinite stay is fair enough. Why should retirees with no ties to the country other than a few quid in the bank expect anything more.

[bamukloy]

Im quite convinced that being able to complain bitterly about everything is what attracts the old fahrts here in the first place. Lol

seriously tho, do you really need to ask the question?

How many countries give you a no questions asked, open ended visa for over 50's.

they are not silly, they realise this group is a stable long term spender, who most probably will not cause to much trouble, like going around drunk with a loud mouth and getting beaten up, or letting of bombs and the like.

i know a few 80 y.olds back in my country, stuck in old peoples home waiting for a visit from either a long lost relative..or death.

I also know a few in Thailand approaching 80 y.old and being waited on hand and foot by a female half their age ( and a quater of their weight)

Which would you rather be?

By the way, the Thais realise a lot of money and assets gets left in Thailand after the old bluggers check out for good..so yes, i think they do want retirees here.

if they didnt they would scrap the visa wouldnt they?

[Cypress Hill]

Ah the love it or leave it crowd are out in full force again. Missed you for a while. Duck folks. It really boils down to treating the elderly with dignity not contempt. I am to old to jump through hoops but thanks for the bullshit comment using your words. Come out of the closet your really are one of the "if you don't like it, get lost" crowd. Your just in denial.

Classic whinging old man who thinks the few shekels he gets sent every month from the "old country" entitles him to preferential treatment.

The Thais don't owe you shit. They set the rules and you knew them going in but now it's become slightly laborious, you feel that the rules should change to make your life easier because you're "too old".

Tough!

Stay or go - up to you - but for God's sake, do it quietly, will you?

There is no doubt that foreign retirees make a significant contribution to the Thai economy

Yes, there is

[fang37]

I have been here 13 years. I have not observed any dislike from anyone. Wifey suggests that foreigners are welcome but quality please.

As previously posted by a member, an upgrade from a retirement visa would be most welcome - 10 years continuous living here.

2nd class citizens, 2 tier pricing - never seen. Bargaining - adjust to it - an Asian way.

If I considered it not to be a fair deal, I would have departed years ago.

[Benmart]

I'm not Thai.

Thailand didn't ask me to move here and so far, has not asked me to depart.

I try to treat everyone with courtesy and respect. I usually get the same in return.

When I am treated indifferently or unkindly, I avoid the business, people or other entity, if at all possible.

I am not a special person and don't expect to be treated as such.

I have more than I need and share what I have, when I can and with whom I choose.

I have given up the me, me, me, I, I, I way of life and I'm happier for it.

I try not to ask why me, why this, why that. I am not in charge and the "why" is often a moot point.

I respect people's choice to be unhappy and negative. When they do or are, I give them space and move to happier surroundings.

I am blessed to be alive, in good health and better off than most.

When I depart this world, I hope my legacy is a short... "He was a good person".

Peace