UK academic Wyn Ellis released from Thai detention

[optad]

The sad thing we learn from this is that, even if a foreigner cares enough about Thailand to go through the hoops and become a citizen, he/she will still be treated as "second class" and doesn't seem to have any more rights than a tourist. Can someone please explain how a person who is a citizen of a country and holds a passport be "blacklisted" without some sort of court process and revocation of the passport? Only in Thailand !!!

Can someone please explain how a person who is a citizen of a country and holds a passport be "blacklisted" without some sort of court process and revocation of the passport?

Because when you live in a brothel, you're gonna get f'd

I am guessing, guessing!, that they blacklist his UK passport not his Thai passport nad therein was his problem. THat would make sense but i stand corrected if someone knows more.

[Caitrin]

Optad,

I, of course, am limited by my own experience with dual nationality which is:

However, once you are a Japanese national, you must enter and leave Japan using a Japanese Passport, even if you have a valid foreign passport.

and

Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States.

[optad]

Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States.

Sure. But the problem arises, when, for example there is a visa exemption for Canadians say who hold dual passport. Only they can turn around and drive home

It seems to me Wyn tried to enter on an 30 day entry permit as some countries can into Thailand, [not having with him his Thai passport] and unwittingly discovered his UK passport was flagged. He had to sort it out from he transit lounge with his phone over the weekend.

[Dap]

Finally. Go home, mate. You are not safe here.

I read in a previous article that Mr. Ellis has

resided in Thailand for the last 30 years with

his wife. He also has Thai citizenship with a

Thai passport. This may actually be home.

[Dogmatix]

The story is quite strange because he is Thai and cannot be denied entry to the Kingdom. Maybe he wanted to clear the old slur from Immigration's books.

[Arkady]

The sad thing we learn from this is that, even if a foreigner cares enough about Thailand to go through the hoops and become a citizen, he/she will still be treated as "second class" and doesn't seem to have any more rights than a tourist. Can someone please explain how a person who is a citizen of a country and holds a passport be "blacklisted" without some sort of court process and revocation of the passport? Only in Thailand !!!

Exactly!!

This guy is a dual citizen. It says so in the Bangkok Post article I read.

Yet he is still being treated as a tourist?!!

OK, so his mistake was to enter Thailand as a British citizen, but what kind of country even allows a citizen to enter on a foreign passport? No civilized country does, but hey well Thailand and civilized obviously don't belong in the same sentence.

So let's start deporting fake Thais with US and Australian passports. See how they would like that given how legitimate Thai citizens are being deported for the "crime" of being white with a Thai passport and a little bit of mild criticism of a cheat.

The UK is one of those 'uncivilised' countries that allows its citizens to enter the country on a foreign passport. They will no longer issue a UK visa in the foreign passport but you can use the passport of a country that doesn't need a visa for the UK.

Thailand has no specific law against it but it can lead to complications, as Dr Ellis found out. Not sure, if he lost his Thai passport or wanted to bring matters to a head. Anyway it is extremely inadvisable for a Thai citizen to enter on a foreign passport.

I am also a 'white Thai' and there is absolutely no discrimination at Immigration. However, Dr Ellis apparently showed his British passport which means Immigration have no choice but to treat him as British.

[nithisa78]

The foundation of friendship is equality; both sides relate on the same level.

[majhiggins]

One childhood lesson they definitely don't teach in Thailand, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me.". In fact, you're less likely to be jailed for assault and battery than for saying something defamatory against a Thai govt. employee.

[user82374298374]

>I am also still awaiting a grovelling official apology.

This guy is trying to commit suicide by Thai.

He ought to declare victory and leave, never to return. The locals play rough when 'face' comes into the picture.

[Tonawatchee]

Once again, elites being themselves.

[tomacht8]

Recently in Korea the elite are being held accountable for their actions.

There needs to be the same pressure applied to this man, whose alleged

actions are for more deplorable than the ranting airline woman.

Who asked for his name put on the Blacklist?

What is the correct procedure for being put on the Blacklist?

Who put him on the Blacklist?

Was the correct procedure followed in revoking his passport?

Was there an arrest warrant for him?

Why and on whose order was he detained?

Are the Police being used like a private force for the Hi-So elite?

All the allegations against this man must be investigated fully, and if guilty

prosecuted to expediently and to the fullest extent of the Law.

I hope that the unelected Junta who seized power on the back of fighting

against corruption are serious in their pledge to wiping it out and is not a

case of Thaksin corruption is unacceptable but corruption by the traditional

elite is fine.

Are the Police being used like a private force for the Hi-So elite?

Definitely yes, if you have the right connections and/or enough money and/or friends in the right power positions.

[jcisco]

Recently in Korea the elite are being held accountable for their actions.

There needs to be the same pressure applied to this man, whose alleged

actions are for more deplorable than the ranting airline woman.

Who asked for his name put on the Blacklist?

What is the correct procedure for being put on the Blacklist?

Who put him on the Blacklist?

Was the correct procedure followed in revoking his passport?

Was there an arrest warrant for him?

Why and on whose order was he detained?

Are the Police being used like a private force for the Hi-So elite?

All the allegations against this man must be investigated fully, and if guilty

prosecuted to expediently and to the fullest extent of the Law.

I hope that the unelected Junta who seized power on the back of fighting

against corruption are serious in their pledge to wiping it out and is not a

case of Thaksin corruption is unacceptable but corruption by the traditional

elite is fine.

Are the Police being used like a private force for the Hi-So elite?

Definitely yes, if you have the right connections and/or enough money and/or friends in the right power positions.

Likely a situation not unique to just Thailand, so real substance really required to qualify the assertion of the police serving the hiso.

[JohnnyHK]

John Rambo-" Live for nothing, or die for something". But in this case I feel ending up dead would accomplish nothing.

"I fought the law but the law won" ring a bell? Winning in court does not mean that you are safe.

I really wanted to retire to Thailand but maybe it's time to look at Vietnam, Cambodia, and the Philippines.

[Dumbastheycome]

What defines these" elite" people refer to? Is it the same as the High Soc... Low Soc bs that is used in village hierachy? I know several Low Soc. who have many millions of bht. I am feeling confused I is!

[fish fingers]

Glad this good man is out, his story is nuts .. on one video he talks of 400 death threats but I'm sure its risen since then.

PS I'd love to be his chauffeur

[fish fingers]

Supachai Lorlowhakarn

This name should be kept in the press

until his face is so lost that it doesn't exist.

Talk about a cheat and a poor loser.

I wonder if this scumbag is on twitter.

I'd love to tweet him to remind him he lost (again)

He's got a youtube account with a promo video

[Maestro]

No, you are wrong. He lost his Thai passport so he used his UK passport, the one where he was blacklisted. He did not have his Thai passport or any proof of Thai citizenship with him.

...

A foreigner who acquires Thai nationality through naturalisation should be extra careful to always use his Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand.

From the Nationality Act:

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who

acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

...

(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

...

If he loses his Thai passport, he should not use the passport of his other nationality to enter Thailand. He should get a new Thai passport or an Emergency Travel Document from the Thai embassy in the country where he lost his Thai passport.

[Maestro]

The university should be revoking his/her degree.

From the news article cited in the OP:

Mr Supachai had his doctorate revoked in June 2012 and, shortly after, he was convicted of forgery.

[MaxLee]

Now watch out for the henchmen's assassins, Professor

[Maestro]

...

I know there have been a lot of social media criticism of the Immigration Dept over this case, but this is somewhat misplaced. it was entirely my choice to stay to clear the situation locally. So, I want to make it clear I was never kept locked up by the Immigration Dept; this was my choice to remain so I could clear my name from the blacklist. So please give the guys a break!

The Immigration Dept staff have treated me extremely well, offering every convenience they could offer. While the holding room is not endowed with lava lamps and creature comforts, it is fairly clean and the Thai food is always excellent. I spent most of today working in the office of an Immigration official, and was brought food and REAL coffee.

...

SOURCE: https://www.facebook.com/wyn.ellis/posts/10206456555785768?pnref=story

The above is quite the opposite of what the BBC article cited in the OP said:

Dr Ellis, who has been working with the UN on sustainable rice production, had believed he would be deported on Thursday after enduring what he called "obnoxious" conditions in an airport holding cell.

[Richard W]

K, so his mistake was to enter Thailand as a British citizen, but what kind of country even allows a citizen to enter on a foreign passport? No civilized country does, but hey well Thailand and civilized obviously don't belong in the same sentence.

Allow this British barbarian to remind you that it is far from unknown for immigration officers to insist that dual nationals arriving by air use their foreign passport when entering Thailand.

[Caitrin]

Thailand has no specific law against it but it can lead to complications, as Dr Ellis found out. Not sure, if he lost his Thai passport or wanted to bring matters to a head. Anyway it is extremely inadvisable for a Thai citizen to enter on a foreign passport.

I believe, and I would need to go digging through the various posted reports, that at least some articles say he lost his Thai passport and didn't want to bother waiting for another one to arrive. Even outside of my own context, I think I had always heard that it was inadvisable to travel through immigration without your passport for that country, if you are a national.

I did not realise that the UK allowed entering on a foreign passport. Interesting. I wonder if Japan and the U.S. are in the majority or minority of nations here, or if it's mixed, or if it's opposite. Even if Thailand has no law against it, it just seems like a bad idea.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Caitrin

[tigermoth]

And the cheat was originally allowed to graduate on a plagiarised paper, which really helps boost the country, and Chulalongkorn's image. No wonder Thai universities struglle to reach world rankings.

Anyone who has been involved in teaching here will confirm plagiarism is rampant and accepted. There are many, many people with degrees, holding office, including in schools and unis, that never achieved the ' qualifications ' they claim.

I once worked at a rural uni and a colleague had an assignment handed in that was copied word for word from a reference book but when he took the student to task the answer was to the effect " at least i handed something in ".

Yup, I spent 10 years teaching elementary full time and adults part time, and often times teachers at my elementary school would approach me to help their sons/daughters with their Uni assignments. And when I say help, I mean do.

I told them politely what I thought of that, and became very unpopular in the eyes of those that sought my help, to which I didn't give a rat's ass.

Thankfully I no longer teach.

It's not just Thailand where degrees etc at a higher school of learning are never earnt honestly. I have a good friend who is a professor at an Australian University and he has resigned because students who never come remotely within passing and he fails has his decision constantly overturned by the higher ups. This is simply to ensure thr income they earn from foreign students doesn't dry up.

[Ajahnski]

This story resonates and has legs because everyone, retiree, employee, business owner, knows that 'there but for the grace of God go I'....everyone is only one vindictive or litigious complianant away from being in similar circumstances..

Most foreigners in Thailand want certainty: assurances that there is safety, tenure, freedom from harassment. Sadly, from the perspective of the individuals ( as well as for Thailand itself), there is a vulnerability , not only from vindictive whack-jobs but also government policy which can change at any whim or fancy.

This is a really bad news story for Dr Wym but also for Thailand

Bad news for Thailand? He was removed from immigration blacklist he was put on in 2009. Imo this is good news for Thailand and the current government.

99.99% of all foreigners visiting Thailand have no reason to feel uncertain here. Especially when they don't get involved in local affairs.

...he has been jailed for some days before he has been released...

That doesn't make me feel particularly safe. But oh well, if that's your feeling.

I can't judge your personal situation but I feel very safe when going through immigration. I know for sure they have no reason to block my entry into Thailand.

If you feel safe around immigration, then you aren't paying attention. I see legitimate teachers harassed all the time by our local immigration officials, unless they work for an agency as the agents pay tea money.

[balo]

errrmmm

12002314_594561967348227_1849225193180423829_n.jpg

He has been threated well by the Thai immigration , he is a Thai citizen and he has been removed from the black list.

That should satisfy most of the Thai bashers on TV.

[Tomtomtom69]

No, you are wrong. He lost his Thai passport so he used his UK passport, the one where he was blacklisted. He did not have his Thai passport or any proof of Thai citizenship with him.

...

A foreigner who acquires Thai nationality through naturalisation should be extra careful to always use his Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand.

From the Nationality Act:

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who

acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

...

(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

...

If he loses his Thai passport, he should not use the passport of his other nationality to enter Thailand. He should get a new Thai passport or an Emergency Travel Document from the Thai embassy in the country where he lost his Thai passport.

Of course that's what he should have done.

With no record of him being a Thai resident made in his British passport, how did he even get on the plane? Did he possess a return ticket? Because if not, he should have been denied boarding in Norway. Of course I am well aware it is possible to fly from Europe to Thailand with no visa on a one way ticket if you choose an airline that does not strictly check, but officially, the airline is breaking the rules by doing so.

If he lives in Thailand and was returning home, his first mistake was that he didn't declare his Thai passport lost. There is a Thai embassy in Oslo, Norway. He should have spent an extra day or few days there sorting this out and getting a new passport made. There is no excuse good enough for why he didn't do so. As you say, he could have even been issued an emergency travel document in lieu of a normal passport.

He's a good guy and I watched his Youtube speech at the foreign correspondent's club, but this was one mistake he should never ever make again.

ALWAYS enter your own country with a passport issued by that country. Especially as a resident.

[Dogmatix]

Duplicate deleted.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Dogmatix

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post post.

[Dogmatix]

John Rambo-" Live for nothing, or die for something". But in this case I feel ending up dead would accomplish nothing.

"I fought the law but the law won" ring a bell? Winning in court does not mean that you are safe.

I really wanted to retire to Thailand but maybe it's time to look at Vietnam, Cambodia, and the Philippines.

Wrong answer. Cambodia is much worse in terms of face and Hun Sen cronies being above the law. The Phils are not much better than a Thailand and have a lot of crazy nutcases with guns. Vietnam has an arbitrary communist legal system.

The right answer was retirement in Norway, Holland or Sweden.

[Dogmatix]

Deleted by Dog

Edited September 10, 2015 by Dogmatix