Migrants' long and winding road to Europe turns cold, muddy

[micmichd]

@ Mudcrab:

Your insight into world-wide migration is tremendous.

Do you hhappen to be an emigrant who came to Thailand?

Thank you...yes..sort of..I was invited here by my wife....but I came here legally without the ideology of murdering, subduing and forcing my beliefs upon the native population on pain of death.

And you?

My girlfriend invited me to stay with her when I retire.

Everything was legal, no problems with Thais, but all kinds of hassle with Germans - even when I was not in Germany anymore.

[ableguy]

Just an example:

When I worked in Frankfurt, Germany, there were thousands of bankers rushing through heavy rain and storm every evening - without any shelter. I often wondered why none of all these unemployed simply sold umbrellas to them. I would have bought such an umbrella, even if I would have had to pay three times as much as in a convenient store, and many of my colleagues would have done the same.

So, the demand was there, why was there no supply?

I can relate to this , you should see New York when it rains especially downtown Manhatten, crawling with people selling Brollies.

[uksomchai]

Those refugees do have to go, otherwise they and their families face death in the war.

I'm sorry but that is the Lefty propaganda that is conning the people of Europe. The little boy dead on the beach wasn't trying to flee ISIS but had been living in Turkey for the last 3 years. My mate has just come back from taking his family there for their 2 weeks holiday so Turkey isn't exactly a war zone now is it ? It is also funny that both his children and his wife died on the crossing they were forced to make with no lifejackets even though they were perfectly safe and most fathers I know would have saved at least one of their children or died trying.

it now appears that not only was he not trying to escape death he has been outed in the UK papers as the driver of the boat that sank and was working for the smugglers yet we have every Lefty politician and Lefty Luvvie actors calling for them all to be let in just because of that one picture.

I also have just noticed that it is the 14th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Funny again how there has been very little in the papers here or on the TV regarding this. I wonder why that is now ???????????????????

It wouldn't be that they don't want to remind people of what Muslims did to start this all off 14 years ago would it ?

This whole thing is being stage managed and the stupid people of the EU are taking it all in

[pbay]

Those refugees do have to go, otherwise they and their families face death in the war.

YES...... they have to go home..... we in Europe have faced death in war many times BUT we all stayed home and fought for our heritage.... we did not run away..!!!!

These are Moslem people heading for our shores.... send them to Saudi Arabia or Jordan or Egypt....... or maybe Bob Geldorf will house them all... that guy could not help Paula Yates nor their daughter Peaches... but he wants to save the world.... Give us all a break Sir Bob....... and all the rest of you do-gooders...

Absolute rubbish and coming from a person who has not got a clue about history. Refugees were running around the whole of Europe for most of the second world war, so no they did not stay home as you stupidly claim.

[pbay]

Those refugees do have to go, otherwise they and their families face death in the war.

I'm sorry but that is the Lefty propaganda that is conning the people of Europe. The little boy dead on the beach wasn't trying to flee ISIS but had been living in Turkey for the last 3 years. My mate has just come back from taking his family there for their 2 weeks holiday so Turkey isn't exactly a war zone now is it ? It is also funny that both his children and his wife died on the crossing they were forced to make with no lifejackets even though they were perfectly safe and most fathers I know would have saved at least one of their children or died trying.

it now appears that not only was he not trying to escape death he has been outed in the UK papers as the driver of the boat that sank and was working for the smugglers yet we have every Lefty politician and Lefty Luvvie actors calling for them all to be let in just because of that one picture.

I also have just noticed that it is the 14th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Funny again how there has been very little in the papers here or on the TV regarding this. I wonder why that is now ???????????????????

It wouldn't be that they don't want to remind people of what Muslims did to start this all off 14 years ago would it ?

This whole thing is being stage managed and the stupid people of the EU are taking it all in

300,000 Syrians have been killed in a 4 year war so obviously they do need to flee their country as milions have already done so, not lefty propaganda at all, whatever that BS line means.Your claim that Muslims started all this is typical of a Daily Mail reader who knows nothing about history. The CIA were ramping up a war against the Russians in Afghanistan more than 30 years ago,which obviously pre dates 9/11.They and the Pakistani ISI were blatantly recruiting Islamic nutters to fight again the Russians in Afghanistan, that led to the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The illegal invasion of Iraq led directly to the rise of ISIS. I suggest you do some research that does not include rigthwingnutters r us websites for some factual information and then you can post from a factual knowledge base instead of rightwing clownery.

[thaibeachlovers]

Now the so called refugees have forced the Danes to allow them to pass, unregistered, through Denmark to Sweden. Seems the Swedes have better "rights" for refugees than Denmark.

Since when did the beggar become the master?

However, if Sweden can get it's act together, seems that a lot of these illegal economic migrants will be getting sent home.

[thaibeachlovers]

Those refugees do have to go, otherwise they and their families face death in the war.

I'm sorry but that is the Lefty propaganda that is conning the people of Europe. The little boy dead on the beach wasn't trying to flee ISIS but had been living in Turkey for the last 3 years. My mate has just come back from taking his family there for their 2 weeks holiday so Turkey isn't exactly a war zone now is it ? It is also funny that both his children and his wife died on the crossing they were forced to make with no lifejackets even though they were perfectly safe and most fathers I know would have saved at least one of their children or died trying.

it now appears that not only was he not trying to escape death he has been outed in the UK papers as the driver of the boat that sank and was working for the smugglers yet we have every Lefty politician and Lefty Luvvie actors calling for them all to be let in just because of that one picture.

I also have just noticed that it is the 14th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Funny again how there has been very little in the papers here or on the TV regarding this. I wonder why that is now ???????????????????

It wouldn't be that they don't want to remind people of what Muslims did to start this all off 14 years ago would it ?

This whole thing is being stage managed and the stupid people of the EU are taking it all in

300,000 Syrians have been killed in a 4 year war so obviously they do need to flee their country as milions have already done so, not lefty propaganda at all, whatever that BS line means.Your claim that Muslims started all this is typical of a Daily Mail reader who knows nothing about history. The CIA were ramping up a war against the Russians in Afghanistan more than 30 years ago,which obviously pre dates 9/11.They and the Pakistani ISI were blatantly recruiting Islamic nutters to fight again the Russians in Afghanistan, that led to the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The illegal invasion of Iraq led directly to the rise of ISIS. I suggest you do some research that does not include rigthwingnutters r us websites for some factual information and then you can post from a factual knowledge base instead of rightwing clownery.

While you are correct about Afghanistan, the fact is that no western power was ( openly- who knows what the CIA gets up to ) involved in Syria. The refugees are a product of THEIR rebellion against THEIR government. This is not a product of the west, so there is no reason for the west to be giving them special consideration, other than supporting them through the UN in camps in the middle east on humanitarian grounds.

[thaibeachlovers]

Winter stopped the Nazis in Russia...hopefully it will be the same with this invasion.

As an aside....anyone noticed how clean shaven most of the young me appear? It will be interesting to see the same young men in two months when the reach the land of milk and honey.

Very media savvy this mob, and will play the bleeding hearts like fiddle.

What will 50 years look like when there are very few taxpayers compared to the bludgers? Third world Europe?

You need to keep up with technological developments. In 50 years robots will be doing all the menial tasks, including looking after old people.

[micmichd]

Winter stopped the Nazis in Russia...hopefully it will be the same with this invasion.

As an aside....anyone noticed how clean shaven most of the young me appear? It will be interesting to see the same young men in two months when the reach the land of milk and honey.

Very media savvy this mob, and will play the bleeding hearts like fiddle.

What will 50 years look like when there are very few taxpayers compared to the bludgers? Third world Europe?

You need to keep up with technological developments. In 50 years robots will be doing all the menial tasks, including looking after old people.

including sex?

certainly not making babies.

Edited September 12, 2015 by micmichd

[micmichd]

Technological development is one thing, social development is another thing.

Certainly there is a trend to leave everything up to computers and robots, not only the "menial tasks" but also decision-making (maybe even law-making)

A computer might decide that a country needs variety in the gene pool. Would you accept migration then?

[thaibeachlovers]

Technological development is one thing, social development is another thing.

Certainly there is a trend to leave everything up to computers and robots, not only the "menial tasks" but also decision-making (maybe even law-making)

A computer might decide that a country needs variety in the gene pool. Would you accept migration then?

I have NEVER been against migration ( everyone in the whole world is the product of migration ) and I am a migrant. I am only against ILLEGAL migration.

[micmichd]

Totally agree.

Laws can be adjusted to economic, biological or social requirements.

It's one of the saddest phenomena that in the Middle East wars and war refugees have to keep migration going. So, the political main task at the moment should be to stop these wars, and stop using human populations as (military or para-military) hostages.

[simple1]

Those refugees do have to go, otherwise they and their families face death in the war.

I'm sorry but that is the Lefty propaganda that is conning the people of Europe. The little boy dead on the beach wasn't trying to flee ISIS but had been living in Turkey for the last 3 years. My mate has just come back from taking his family there for their 2 weeks holiday so Turkey isn't exactly a war zone now is it ? It is also funny that both his children and his wife died on the crossing they were forced to make with no lifejackets even though they were perfectly safe and most fathers I know would have saved at least one of their children or died trying.

it now appears that not only was he not trying to escape death he has been outed in the UK papers as the driver of the boat that sank and was working for the smugglers yet we have every Lefty politician and Lefty Luvvie actors calling for them all to be let in just because of that one picture.

I also have just noticed that it is the 14th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Funny again how there has been very little in the papers here or on the TV regarding this. I wonder why that is now ???????????????????

It wouldn't be that they don't want to remind people of what Muslims did to start this all off 14 years ago would it ?

This whole thing is being stage managed and the stupid people of the EU are taking it all in

300,000 Syrians have been killed in a 4 year war so obviously they do need to flee their country as milions have already done so, not lefty propaganda at all, whatever that BS line means.Your claim that Muslims started all this is typical of a Daily Mail reader who knows nothing about history. The CIA were ramping up a war against the Russians in Afghanistan more than 30 years ago,which obviously pre dates 9/11.They and the Pakistani ISI were blatantly recruiting Islamic nutters to fight again the Russians in Afghanistan, that led to the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The illegal invasion of Iraq led directly to the rise of ISIS. I suggest you do some research that does not include rigthwingnutters r us websites for some factual information and then you can post from a factual knowledge base instead of rightwing clownery.

While you are correct about Afghanistan, the fact is that no western power was ( openly- who knows what the CIA gets up to ) involved in Syria. The refugees are a product of THEIR rebellion against THEIR government. This is not a product of the west, so there is no reason for the west to be giving them special consideration, other than supporting them through the UN in camps in the middle east on humanitarian grounds.

I do agree that UNHCR, IOM & NGOs should be appropriately funded to support the refugees in countries bordering Syria. The sad fact is that very few countries lived up to their financial pledges of support. The issue of insufficient funding was raised 2/3 years ago & the scenario now taking place would possibly occur.

As to the rights & wrongs It's all hindsight now, but some Western political leaders did encourage the Arab Spring and promised support for the protest movements which never materialised in a realistic manner.

Edited September 12, 2015 by simple1

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm sorry but that is the Lefty propaganda that is conning the people of Europe. The little boy dead on the beach wasn't trying to flee ISIS but had been living in Turkey for the last 3 years. My mate has just come back from taking his family there for their 2 weeks holiday so Turkey isn't exactly a war zone now is it ? It is also funny that both his children and his wife died on the crossing they were forced to make with no lifejackets even though they were perfectly safe and most fathers I know would have saved at least one of their children or died trying.

it now appears that not only was he not trying to escape death he has been outed in the UK papers as the driver of the boat that sank and was working for the smugglers yet we have every Lefty politician and Lefty Luvvie actors calling for them all to be let in just because of that one picture.

I also have just noticed that it is the 14th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Funny again how there has been very little in the papers here or on the TV regarding this. I wonder why that is now ???????????????????

It wouldn't be that they don't want to remind people of what Muslims did to start this all off 14 years ago would it ?

This whole thing is being stage managed and the stupid people of the EU are taking it all in

300,000 Syrians have been killed in a 4 year war so obviously they do need to flee their country as milions have already done so, not lefty propaganda at all, whatever that BS line means.Your claim that Muslims started all this is typical of a Daily Mail reader who knows nothing about history. The CIA were ramping up a war against the Russians in Afghanistan more than 30 years ago,which obviously pre dates 9/11.They and the Pakistani ISI were blatantly recruiting Islamic nutters to fight again the Russians in Afghanistan, that led to the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The illegal invasion of Iraq led directly to the rise of ISIS. I suggest you do some research that does not include rigthwingnutters r us websites for some factual information and then you can post from a factual knowledge base instead of rightwing clownery.

While you are correct about Afghanistan, the fact is that no western power was ( openly- who knows what the CIA gets up to ) involved in Syria. The refugees are a product of THEIR rebellion against THEIR government. This is not a product of the west, so there is no reason for the west to be giving them special consideration, other than supporting them through the UN in camps in the middle east on humanitarian grounds.

I do agree that UNHCR, IOM & NGOs should be appropriately funded to support the refugees in countries bordering Syria. The sad fact is that very few countries lived up to their financial pledges of support. The issue of insufficient funding was raised 2/3 years ago & the scenario now taking place would possibly occur.

As to the rights & wrongs It's all hindsight now, but some Western political leaders did encourage the Arab Spring and promised support for the protest movements which never materialised in a realistic manner.

some Western political leaders did encourage the Arab Spring and promised support for the protest movements which never materialised in a realistic manner.

Any potential rebels should have realised that western leaders pledging support are just liars after Bush the first pledged to support Iraqis that rebelled against Saddam and then did nothing when they did so.

[micmichd]

The Bush administration showed absolutely no empathy for Middle East countries and all the ethnic minorities that live there, neither in Arabian countries nor in Afghanistan. Not that they didn't know about the situation, CIA has all kinds of political advisors.

Those self-proclaimed "masters of the universe" simply did not care of anything else than their geopolitical interests.

[pbay]

Those refugees do have to go, otherwise they and their families face death in the war.

I'm sorry but that is the Lefty propaganda that is conning the people of Europe. The little boy dead on the beach wasn't trying to flee ISIS but had been living in Turkey for the last 3 years. My mate has just come back from taking his family there for their 2 weeks holiday so Turkey isn't exactly a war zone now is it ? It is also funny that both his children and his wife died on the crossing they were forced to make with no lifejackets even though they were perfectly safe and most fathers I know would have saved at least one of their children or died trying.

it now appears that not only was he not trying to escape death he has been outed in the UK papers as the driver of the boat that sank and was working for the smugglers yet we have every Lefty politician and Lefty Luvvie actors calling for them all to be let in just because of that one picture.

I also have just noticed that it is the 14th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Funny again how there has been very little in the papers here or on the TV regarding this. I wonder why that is now ???????????????????

It wouldn't be that they don't want to remind people of what Muslims did to start this all off 14 years ago would it ?

This whole thing is being stage managed and the stupid people of the EU are taking it all in

300,000 Syrians have been killed in a 4 year war so obviously they do need to flee their country as milions have already done so, not lefty propaganda at all, whatever that BS line means.Your claim that Muslims started all this is typical of a Daily Mail reader who knows nothing about history. The CIA were ramping up a war against the Russians in Afghanistan more than 30 years ago,which obviously pre dates 9/11.They and the Pakistani ISI were blatantly recruiting Islamic nutters to fight again the Russians in Afghanistan, that led to the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The illegal invasion of Iraq led directly to the rise of ISIS. I suggest you do some research that does not include rigthwingnutters r us websites for some factual information and then you can post from a factual knowledge base instead of rightwing clownery.

While you are correct about Afghanistan, the fact is that no western power was ( openly- who knows what the CIA gets up to ) involved in Syria. The refugees are a product of THEIR rebellion against THEIR government. This is not a product of the west, so there is no reason for the west to be giving them special consideration, other than supporting them through the UN in camps in the middle east on humanitarian grounds.

I think you will find you are wrong. Although a civil war did start in Syria the west has been fueling it very much since the start by training rebels in Jordan and Turkey and then sending them into Syria. The west has also been using their proxies from Saudi and Qatar to fund the war as well.I see you totally ignored my point about Iraq and the rise of ISIS, ISIS are in Syria now but did not even exist before the US/west illegal invasion of Iraq, the west is to blame for the current refugee crisis in Syria.

The Americans have had a plan to overthrow Assad going back over a decade, well before the civil war even started.Gen. Wesley Clark told us about that fact. They have been traning rebels in Jordan for at least 2.5 years that we know of and that is just what has come out, gods knows what else they have been doing behind the scenes as usual and for how long..Also UN camps have had their funding cut,so no hope there for the millions of refugees.

Edited September 12, 2015 by pbay