Palestine flag to be raised over UN

[Steely Dan]

"A blatant attempt to hijack UN" - in your dream. This organisation has been hijacked decades ago. And nobody has noticed its practical absence.

UN has outlived its use, its purpose and its principles. A bunch of corrupt greedy travelers in time from the past.

United Nations by definition must be a body representing Nations whose impact on the World is substantial.

Irrespective of whether Palestine is a Nation(?) or a country(?) - what is its contribution to the World? Terrorism, dependency, cowardice, corruption... just about all.

The designation of Palestine as a non-member observer state statute is driven by vote of UN member states, and not the UN as an institution itself.

Blaming the UN as an institution in this topic isn't correct.

Which part of my post is not clear to you?

When I say UN has been hijacked I do not mean Martians or green creatures - I mean over 100 UN member states you distinguish from UN with such a reverie.

The very same UN member states that would still eat their enemies or sell them into slavery if there were buyers. Since when the majority was right instead of being stupid?

Sorry for not sharing your reverie, but USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, Israel and GB do not share your position either. Not that I need their view on the matter.

It's called the bandwagon fallacy, you see it a lot here.

[ABCer]

Steely Dan, don't be silly.

A poodle can not judge his master. He is going to love him good or bad. Besides, a poodle doesn't even know he is a dog.

I also have seen some poodles converting...

[Seastallion]

How stupid. The Nazis attacked the Jews for no reason besides their religion. They were mostly pacifists who did not even fight back.

On the other hand. the Palestinians were the ones who started the violence in the first place and when they lost the wars they started, they switched over to terrorism against innocent civilians. The Palestinians caused most of their own problems. There is no legitimate comparison between the two.

You continue to be wilfully blind to the fact that Zionist terrorists were active before Israel came into being. Stop trying to imply that Israeli hands were clean at the start.

Yeah, it's like I walk into UG's house, sit in his chair at his table and start eating his grits......understandably, he hits me over the head.

I fight back, with considerable force, and I cry "HE STARTED THE VIOLENCE! I'm justified in pummeling him to the ground...and just for good measure, I'll raid his pantry"!

"Serves him right...gosh, he hit me! The nerve of him."

[Ulysses G.]

Don't worry. I would NEVER invite someone like you into my house. That is not even a possibility.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[stevenl]

Don't worry. I would NEVER invite someone like you into my house. That is not even a possibility.

That's the issue, no invitation was issued.

[Ulysses G.]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

[Jingthing]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

Exactly. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. Always was and always will be.

[Thorgal]

How stupid. The Nazis attacked the Jews for no reason besides their religion. They were mostly pacifists who did not even fight back.

On the other hand. the Palestinians were the ones who started the violence in the first place and when they lost the wars they started, they switched over to terrorism against innocent civilians. The Palestinians caused most of their own problems. There is no legitimate comparison between the two.

You continue to be wilfully blind to the fact that Zionist terrorists were active before Israel came into being. Stop trying to imply that Israeli hands were clean at the start.

As usual you are just making up things from thin air. You have proved many times that you have no grasp of the history there at all. The Jews did not start fighting back in an organized way for almost 20 years after the Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities in the first place.

Here is a chart of killings and massacres committed in Mandate Palestine and anyone can see that for almost 20 years, the Arabs were the responsible party. The first anti-Jewish riots were in about 1920. Eventually Irgun was formed and the Jews started striking back in about 1938.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

This is a list of killings and massacres committed in Mandatory Palestine. It is restricted to incidents in which at least three people were deliberately killed. This list does not include unlawful deaths due to criminal activity. It includes all casualties that resulted from the initial attack on civilians or non-combat military personnel.

Note: The designation "responsible party" below refers to those believed to be the principle instigators of the violence.

You won’t find any UNSC condemnation on the Arab League invasion of Palestine, simply because there is none.

Under the UN Charter Article 52 it was their right and as representatives of Palestine at the time, their duty to protect it from the aggression the Sovereign state of Israel had inherited from Plan Dalet, from the moment Israel declared.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Plan_Dalet.html

You're referring to what had been a civil war, before Declaration of Independence of Israel, and became a war waged by a "state" on Palestine outside Israeli territory...

Edited September 15, 2015 by Thorgal

[DeaconJohn]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

Exactly. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. Always was and always will be.

In every part of British Mandate Palestine Jews were massively outnumbered by the indigenous Palestinians until terrorism and ethnic cleansing reduced their numbers in what is now Israel.

[up-country_sinclair]

Don't worry. I would NEVER invite someone like you into my house. That is not even a possibility.

That's the issue, no invitation was issued.

[Seastallion]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

Exactly. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. Always was and always will be.

In every part of British Mandate Palestine Jews were massively outnumbered by the indigenous Palestinians until terrorism and ethnic cleansing reduced their numbers in what is now Israel.

Ahhh, but John, the fact that there were a handful of indigenous Jews "maintaining a continuous presence" somehow means that hordes of migrants from Europe, who have lived in Europe for generation upon generation and with no tie to Israel except their religion, can usurp the Arabs that HAVE ALSO BEEN THERE FOR 3000 YEARS.

That is the logic, or lack thereof.

Perhaps the entire group of Pacific Island nations should move into Thailand, because there have been, and still are the "khon pah" or jungle people maintaining a continuous presence here since time immemorial. There is a genetic connection. It's the Pacific Islander's penultimate homeland. (Go back even further and the connection is to Taiwan's black jungle people). Same reasoning.

[Ulysses G.]

You won’t find any UNSC condemnation on the Arab League invasion of Palestine, simply because there is none.

Who cares? Yet another Trivial Pursuit post from Thorgal.

[Ulysses G.]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

Exactly. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. Always was and always will be.

In every part of British Mandate Palestine Jews were massively outnumbered by the indigenous Palestinians until terrorism and ethnic cleansing reduced their numbers in what is now Israel.

You mean war? The war that the Palestinians started and LOST.

[DeaconJohn]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

The international recognition of Palestine, symbolized by its flag at the UN headquarters in New York, is one of the first steps toward a two state solution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

The alternative - a one state solution - would mean the eventual end of the Jewish state as it exists now.

Incidentally, if you think that the Jews have been a significant presence in Judea/Palestine continuously for 3000 years, you need some remedial education in Middle Eastern history.

The Kingdom of Judea lost its sovereignty in 63 BC when it was incorporated into the Roman Empire as Roman Judea.

In 135 AD the Jews were expelled following a series of revolts. The Romans never did things by half-measure. The Jews were dispersed throughout the Empire and beyond; some ending up as far away as India and China.

What had been Roman Judea became Syria Palaestina, and remained Palestine - in one form or another - until the UN created Israel in 1948. Since then there has been a continual state of war.

[Seastallion]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

The international recognition of Palestine, symbolized by its flag at the UN headquarters in New York, is one of the first steps toward a two state solution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

The alternative - a one state solution - would mean the eventual end of the Jewish state as it exists now.

Incidentally, if you think that the Jews have been a significant presence in Judea/Palestine continuously for 3000 years, you need some remedial education in Middle Eastern history.

The Kingdom of Judea lost its sovereignty in 63 BC when it was incorporated into the Roman Empire as Roman Judea.

In 135 AD the Jews were expelled following a series of revolts. The Romans never did things by half-measure. The Jews were dispersed throughout the Empire and beyond; some ending up as far away as India and China.

What had been Roman Judea became Syria Palaestina, and remained Palestine - in one form or another - until the UN created Israel in 1948. Since then there has been a continual state of war.

India and China??? That means if there are some descendants still living there, European Jews can take over China and India....Because, "The Jews were there continuously for over " 2000 years!!!

[Jingthing]

Israel demonizers / anti Zionists / Judeophobes would be happier if the Jews had no nation state and were still very weak and could be easy victims of pogroms etc. again. Tough luck. The obsessed Israel demonizers don't like Jews when they are weak or strong. Strong is better.

You really can't get away from the Jewish connection to the land of Israel. Jews are a tiny tiny people relative to global population. A people that has been persecuted for thousands of years in the Diaspora. Establishing the modern nation state of Israel made sense as a survival tactic for the Jewish people.

The diaspora of the Jewish people was from where? Boca Raton? No. Israel.

Also the line that Jewish is only a religion is totally wrong. Jews are also a people in the sense of an ethnoreligious group. Following the religion is not required to be a Jew.

"Palestinian" Arabs can resist the existence of Israel all they like. Israel isn't going anywhere.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

The Jews were there continuously for over 3,000 years. They are not the ones who needed an invitation.

Incidentally, if you think that the Jews have been a significant presence in Judea/Palestine continuously for 3000 years, you need some remedial education in Middle Eastern history.

The Jewish people have maintained a well-documented, unbroken presence in Israel for well over 3,000 years, beginning in the 2nd millennium B.C.E., continuing under a long series of Jewish kingdoms and foreign rulers, and through to the modern State of Israel. Conquerors, diplomats, pilgrims and visitors throughout the millennia have left an abundance of references to the Jewish communities living there. Israel is filled with archaeological and historical sites, many of which testify to Jewish life over the centuries. Even the Muslim Qur’an refers to the Jewish people as the “Children of Israel”.

http://arabisraeliconflict.info/arab-israel-facts/fact-1-jewish-history-israel

[thaibeachlovers]

Israel demonizers / anti Zionists / Judeophobes would be happier if the Jews had no nation state and were still very weak and could be easy victims of pogroms etc. again. Tough luck. The obsessed Israel demonizers don't like Jews when they are weak or strong. Strong is better.

You really can't get away from the Jewish connection to the land of Israel. Jews are a tiny tiny people relative to global population. A people that has been persecuted for thousands of years in the Diaspora. Establishing the modern nation state of Israel made sense as a survival tactic for the Jewish people.

The diaspora of the Jewish people was from where? Boca Raton? No. Israel.

Also the line that Jewish is only a religion is totally wrong. Jews are also a people in the sense of an ethnoreligious group. Following the religion is not required to be a Jew.

"Palestinian" Arabs can resist the existence of Israel all they like. Israel isn't going anywhere.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

And the Israeli Arabs aren't going away either. They'll still be there in 300 or 3000 years, and they'll outnumber the Jews massively- so what you gonna do? Do you have a plan?

[Steely Dan]

Israel demonizers / anti Zionists / Judeophobes would be happier if the Jews had no nation state and were still very weak and could be easy victims of pogroms etc. again. Tough luck. The obsessed Israel demonizers don't like Jews when they are weak or strong. Strong is better.

You really can't get away from the Jewish connection to the land of Israel. Jews are a tiny tiny people relative to global population. A people that has been persecuted for thousands of years in the Diaspora. Establishing the modern nation state of Israel made sense as a survival tactic for the Jewish people.

The diaspora of the Jewish people was from where? Boca Raton? No. Israel.

Also the line that Jewish is only a religion is totally wrong. Jews are also a people in the sense of an ethnoreligious group. Following the religion is not required to be a Jew.

"Palestinian" Arabs can resist the existence of Israel all they like. Israel isn't going anywhere.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

And the Israeli Arabs aren't going away either. They'll still be there in 300 or 3000 years, and they'll outnumber the Jews massively- so what you gonna do? Do you have a plan?

It's quite ironic that some who are against mass Muslim immigration to Europe for reasons of demographics seem to relish the same happening to Israel. The demographic question only applies due to the premeditated deliberate decision not to settle Palestinian refugees in order to preserve their so called 'right of return', hence the UN has set up an agency unique to Palestinian refugees and another for all the rest of the refugees on earth. Well the right of return is an equal fiction to the borderless pseudo state of Palestine.

[Jingthing]

So true. The Arab / Muslim world could have solved the "Palestinian" "refugee" problem decades ago but that's the last thing they want to do as their goal is to end Israel. The western so called progressives who don't get this share the same goals whether they admit it openly or not.

[dexterm]

Israel demonizers / anti Zionists / Judeophobes would be happier if the Jews had no nation state and were still very weak and could be easy victims of pogroms etc. again. Tough luck. The obsessed Israel demonizers don't like Jews when they are weak or strong. Strong is better.

You really can't get away from the Jewish connection to the land of Israel. Jews are a tiny tiny people relative to global population. A people that has been persecuted for thousands of years in the Diaspora. Establishing the modern nation state of Israel made sense as a survival tactic for the Jewish people.

The diaspora of the Jewish people was from where? Boca Raton? No. Israel.

Also the line that Jewish is only a religion is totally wrong. Jews are also a people in the sense of an ethnoreligious group. Following the religion is not required to be a Jew.

"Palestinian" Arabs can resist the existence of Israel all they like. Israel isn't going anywhere.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

And the Israeli Arabs aren't going away either. They'll still be there in 300 or 3000 years, and they'll outnumber the Jews massively- so what you gonna do? Do you have a plan?

It's quite ironic that some who are against mass Muslim immigration to Europe for reasons of demographics seem to relish the same happening to Israel. The demographic question only applies due to the premeditated deliberate decision not to settle Palestinian refugees in order to preserve their so called 'right of return', hence the UN has set up an agency unique to Palestinian refugees and another for all the rest of the refugees on earth. Well the right of return is an equal fiction to the borderless pseudo state of Palestine.

Except it was Zionist Jews in their hundreds of thousands who illegally entered Palestine with the intention of taking over the land from the resident Palestinian population, which they have unjustly succeeded in doing.

Muslims and Christians refugees fleeing the wars in Syria, Iraq and Libya number 3-4 million max in a sea of 503 million EU population. Many will want to return to their homeland later when the fighting ceases.

Thanks for your post. Ironically, you have just demonstrated how catastrophic the Zionist invasion of Palestine was. If Europeans feel uncomfortable with a relative drop in the ocean of refugees arriving compared to their entire population, imagine how Palestinians felt when waves upon waves of illegal Jewish immigrants arrived not as invited guests but to ethnically cleanse the resident Palestinians and to steal their land.

...and it's still happening today!

Edited September 18, 2015 by dexterm

[Seastallion]

So true. The Arab / Muslim world could have solved the "Palestinian" "refugee" problem decades ago but that's the last thing they want to do as their goal is to end Israel. The western so called progressives who don't get this share the same goals whether they admit it openly or not.

The "Western so-called progressives" get something a lot bigger: That the SOURCE of the problem should be addressed, not the aftermath.

And if you don't know what that source is, it's the expansion of Israel outside the 1947 borders that it agreed to but reneged on by military force, and continues to expand on indigenous peoples land, taking over the most fertile areas and commandeering the water sources to drive the Palestinians out...ethnic cleansing by stealth instead of bullets.

[Pakboong]

Really? Maybe you haven't noticed but Israel has been kicking their butts for almost 70 years and Israel keeps getting better and better, while the Arabs descend into chaos. .

The English kicked Irish butt for 600 years and had to make peace in the end. Are you thinking that the Arabs will come to love being oppressed? Good luck with that.

Try not to make the mistake that many of our one issue activists here make, namely seeing Palestine and Israel in isolation. If Israel makes peace with her neighbors the rug will be pulled out from under the feet of the Palestinians, who will no longer be able to get away behaving like petulant children. Aside from tilting at windmills with the UN or BDS campaigns Palestinians should be honest with themselves and realize how counter productive their behavior is.

Egypt and the Gulf states are currently clearing Iran's proxy out of Yemen, this will be followed by Iran being neutralized itself, just as Abbas tries to enlist Iranian help. The Palestinian leadership has a rare gift for putting itself in the wrong camp when the dust finally settles.

Shia countries all see themselves as tribal allies much as Jews in the Diaspora see themselves. It is pretty obvious that the Jews who defend Israel on this forum are not Israelis. It is not really a proxy war, it simply is Shias defending their tribe. It is foolish to expect a country like Iran to not have tribal allies. It is certainly appropriate for Israel to be the Ally of the other country in the would with over 5 million Jews. All talk of proxies and terrorism is boring. Terror is simply a method mostly used by countries who have no standing army or one that is ineffective. Israel was basically founded by the Haganah, Irgun, and Stern Gang. Making any reference to terrorism seem seriously silly too me when mentioned regarding the Palestinians. I do love it when the Jews refer to those terrorists as gentlemen because they took the time to notify the British before an attack. A special category of terrorists but terrorists none the less.The Palestinians have the same choices primarily due to limited resources.. They are pissed off and the only way they can express it is through terrorism. They can't win and they are not very smart about it but, they are pissed.

It is certainly not anti-semetic to be on the side of the under dog in this or in any case. Most of us were on the side of the Texans at the Alamo but they were in fact terrorists.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Pakboong

[Ulysses G.]

They can't win and they are not very smart about it but, they are pissed.

You got this part right. The not smart part is what keeps the Palestinians attacking a vastly superior foe and is why they are in the pickle that they are in.

[Ulysses G.]

So true. The Arab / Muslim world could have solved the "Palestinian" "refugee" problem decades ago but that's the last thing they want to do as their goal is to end Israel. The western so called progressives who don't get this share the same goals whether they admit it openly or not.

Indeed and they do everything possible to deny the truth.

[Jingthing]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

[Seastallion]

They can't win and they are not very smart about it but, they are pissed.

You got this part right. The not smart part is what keeps the Palestinians attacking a vastly superior foe and is why they are in the pickle that they are in.

He got everything right.

They are in the pickle they are in because the Zionists keep trying to expand their holdings. There is no argument that Israel is militarily superior. But why should the Palestinians not fight for what is theirs even if it is against a superior force? This is one of the "unnatural justices" that you and your fellow apologists excuse. The US condones and supports this imbalance.

You always make out that "might is right". Israel won, etc blah blah.

When YOU are faced with a physically superior thug, will you fight, call the police, or run? By your rationale, you should lie down, pull down your pants, hand over all your money, and take it like a man.

Somehow, I don't think you would,

[Seastallion]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

In your Zionist dreams it won't, but in reality it will. The state of Palestine is in the offing, and when it comes about, things on the ground will have to change.

Sorry Israel. You need to get with the times. No choices left. Your river to the sea aspirations will NEVER come about.

It's time to face reality.

[Thorgal]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

In your Zionist dreams it won't, but in reality it will. The state of Palestine is in the offing, and when it comes about, things on the ground will have to change.

Sorry Israel. You need to get with the times. No choices left. Your river to the sea aspirations will NEVER come about.

It's time to face reality.

Aged 56, Israeli UN ambassador Ron Prosor made his "last speech" at the UN after the UN Palestinian flag debacle 'hijacked' and 'sponged' his career.

Age of retirement in Israel should be 67...and euh...Tel Aviv was not pleased with the outcome from OP and the unfamous quotes from their Un ambassador.

So, after his unfamous quote that the UN ‘Would Vote to Declare That the Earth is Flat, if the Palestinians Proposed it’...and with a long lasting and strong relationship with his loyal UN partners, he should logically be permanently assigned and keep office and provide advanced international geopolitical consultancy training somewhere between Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Tuvalu and Palau...and of course to boost those partners their local shallow sponge aquaculture...

Edited September 18, 2015 by Thorgal

[dexterm]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

However insignificant you think the raising of the Palestinian flag is, the Israeli government is clearly paranoid about it.

The flag, now flying outside the UN, has come a long way since 1967....

In 1967, immediately following the Six Day War, the State of Israel banned the Palestinian flag in the occupied Gaza Strip and West Bank. A 1980 law forbidding artwork of "political significance" banned artwork composed of its four colours, and Palestinians were arrested for displaying such artwork.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_flag#Ban

The ban was revoked in 1993, but Netanyahu's racist cabinet now wants to reimpose it.

Israel plans to reintroduce ban on Palestinian flag

Israeli academic Ilan Pappé, author of more than a dozen books on Palestinian and Israeli history, explained that an ongoing wave of discriminatory bills is part of a racist trend of anti-Palestinian legislation in Israel’s Knesset.

Until recent years, Israel “was uncomfortable with the contradiction between racism and democracy” and insisted that it was possible to be an exclusively Jewish state and democratic at the same time.

Israel “hesitated to legislate in [an outright] racist manner since it was possible, in its leaders’ eyes, to practice a de facto apartheid state with laws that were democratic in discourse but discriminatory in nature when implemented,” Pappé added.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/israel-plans-reintroduce-ban-palestinian-flag

You've got to ask yourself: Does a civilized democratic country behave this way? I would love to see Israel face reality. end the occupation of 4.5 million Palestinians, make a just peace with its neighbors, join the family of civilized nations, and fly their two countries' flags side by side.

Edited September 18, 2015 by dexterm