Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[Transporter]

ORDER IN THE HOUSE PLEASE FELLOW MEMBERS..

You all seem to have missed one of the most important turning points of this case today.

I quote:

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration"

What has happened today is the defence has provided significant evidence to the court without Public disclosure. Such is the gravity of the information that Norfolk Coroner Jacqueline Lake decided it was her duty to allow this information to be provided to the court. Its been washed over and no real weight given in this thread but it is significant.

Andy Hall told us he had "Fantastic" information from the UK. Is this what he was referring to and how could the Coroner provide evidence that is significantly different.

What could that mean?

We know the victim is deceased so no conflicting story's there.

She couldn't have ascertained the time of death so no difference there either.

We know the victim is the person on her passport so no difference there.

It wouldn't relate to her blood samples I doubt as that's not an issue if she had drink or drugs inside her.

No she has released the report for consideration by the Thai Court because she has found a significant discrepancy in the Thai pathologist report.

What does that tell us?? well I suggest the cause of Death could be one of the Main differences she could have found.

Was Hannah Witheridge Shot?? Its been rumoured she had.

Ref: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ask yourselves Ladies and Gentlemen and anyone in-between as I am a fully inclusive person, why has a UK Coroner decided to send her report to Thailand in rebuttal of the Thai Police Pathologist report.

Its different... It has conflicting findings... What are they... ??? I would love to know.

My hunch is that the UK Coroner has found DNA evidence from under the fingernails of the victim which is crucial and conflicting. No prizes for guessing who's it is though because its far too obvious.

[boomerangutang]

There are now "significant" enough reasons to call a complete halt to the trial and carry out the basic but very serious investigations that should have been carried out before. This should be done before the trial resumes again.

Torture

DNA Evidence report tampering

New DNA evidence to be compared to other possible suspects

For those defenders who like to play with words, I do not chose the word "significant" lightly, in a context such as this it implies that unless these concerns are fully investigated then it would be deemed as negligent. Hardly a premise for a fair verdict on this case.

This is not media hype, this is not media marketing, this is a reality that some fail to recognize and are happy to convict without the above taking place first.

You're looking at all this with farang perspective of reason and justice. .....doesn't fit with Thai style.

I am pretty dam old but didn't trials take place before the wizardry of DNA? Do we walk around dripping this stuff?

Well if you are that dam old you probably do...

witty retort of the day! ha ha chortle ha.

[Bakseeda]

Hope these guys sue the police for false imprisonment,

Conspiracy to falsely convict them, false arrest, deformation,

And any other charges their lawyers can find. Should

Be compensated ...B20,000000 each.

Unluckily the two scapegoats were in Thailand illegally.... now they are in Thailand legally. If found to be innocent they will be given each , one plastic container with fried rice inside and a bus ticket , one way to Ranong.

Let all hope this trial gets the results it should have and these two lads can return home to their families...

[Transporter]

ORDER IN THE HOUSE PLEASE FELLOW MEMBERS..

You all seem to have missed one of the most important turning points of this case today.

I quote:

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration"

What has happened today is the defence has provided significant evidence to the court without Public disclosure. Such is the gravity of the information that Norfolk Coroner Jacqueline Lake decided it was her duty to allow this information to be provided to the court. Its been washed over and no real weight given in this thread but it is significant.

Andy Hall told us he had "Fantastic" information from the UK. Is this what he was referring to and how could the Coroner provide evidence that is significantly different.

What could that mean?

We know the victim is deceased so no conflicting story's there.

She couldn't have ascertained the time of death so no difference there either.

We know the victim is the person on her passport so no difference there.

It wouldn't relate to her blood samples I doubt as that's not an issue if she had drink or drugs inside her.

No she has released the report for consideration by the Thai Court because she has found a significant discrepancy in the Thai pathologist report.

What does that tell us?? well I suggest the cause of Death could be one of the Main differences she could have found.

Was Hannah Witheridge Shot?? Its been rumoured she had.

Ref: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ask yourselves Ladies and Gentlemen and anyone in-between as I am a fully inclusive person, why has a UK Coroner decided to send her report to Thailand in rebuttal of the Thai Police Pathologist report.

Its different... It has conflicting findings... What are they... ??? I would love to know.

Differences in the reports and conflicting findings are not the same thing, the families of the victims would certainly be aware of the results of the coroner inquest and if it had uncover something like a gunshot or a anything that conclusively disproves the case against the two Burmese they wouldn't have said things like the two defendants having a difficult case to answer for.

The defense has made it very clear that they want the case to be judged in the "Court of public opinion", and never been shy about parading whatever findings they could use to undermine the prosecution case, so I wouldn't put my hopes up for any earth shattering revelations on that report.

The UK Prime Minister and the Thai government have certainly been unnecessarily busy discussing that evidence reaching the defence if it has nothing relevant in it then.

[tominbkk]

Weren't there early allegations that the son of a prominent islander might have been involved? His DNA 'supposedly' tested....and 'verified' he wasn't involved.

If so, perhaps the good Dr. Pornthip would want to reexamine that DNA sample

Important for her as well to personally get the DNA from that guy.

[Acharn]

So the only thing that makes the b2 suspects is they that they were at the beach that night/morning ?

No, it's that they were there on that night, that they said they just happened to find a phone identical to one of the one taken from one of the victims and that there are DNA results, that so far have not been contested, that link them to the crime.

Their explanations of what they did on that night leave a lot to be desired, from what they've said so far it sounds like a string of very convenient coincidences.

As for the bottles, I don't remember any mention of bottles being found at the place were they had been sitting, on the other hand cigarette butts were found and checked for DNA and that's one of the clues that led to their arrest; according to their account they drank three bottles of beer and one of wine on that spot.

Seems to me the DNA "results" that supposedly link them to the crime are only the word of the investigating officer, who admits he doesn't know what was tested, what the results were, and where the evidence is now. DNA is not magic. They might get DNA from a cigaret butt, for example, which would prove that the person was where the cigaret butt was found at some time in the past, but it wouldn't tell you when. It might have been a day or a week before the time of the crime. Well, not a week, the DNA would have broken down to the point it was not identifiable in a week outdoors (I think). Were the cigaret butts found with the bodies? If they were some distance away the B2 could have been there and not seen the bodies, or been there before the murder was committed. Why they are talking about the DNA on the hoe I don't understand. That's roughly like getting DNA or fingerprints from a 20 baht note. Ain't gonna happen in real life.

One of the real problems here is that police officers buy their office, much like the British Army before the Crimean War. As a result the high ranking officers are people who know how to exploit their position to make money. Some of them are probably excellent managers, too -- that's really the important part of being a high-ranking officer, in the Army as well. However, they all are ignorant of science and the Thai legal system developed a great dependence on eyewitness testimony, rather than physical evidence. One result is that the RTP now have far too few qualified forensic investigators and detectives (and common street cops) don't know anything about preserving crime scenes or investigating them. Oh, and Dr. Porntip seems to love tweaking their noses, so they hate her and despise anybody who knows anything about forensic science. There was a case in Chiang Mai a few years ago where a farang woman was strangled. I think the body was moved to the morgue before photographers arrived and the police escorted dozens of media reporters people through the crime scene before any forensic specialists arrived.

This case should simply be thrown out with prejudice for lack of relevant evidence.

[stephenterry]

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

correct.

They are basing the case on coerced confessions.

Plus the re-enactment video in court showing with a dustpan substituting for the alleged murder weapon, i.e. the hoe - as confirmed by the police presenter.

Oh, yes, the other DNA evidence was slipped into court at the last minute. You know, from the RTP's perspective, the most important DNA obtained from the female victim that is said (but not substantiated) it matches the B2.

Probably not that important to provide that documentation in open court - everyone would believe the fine upstanding senior police officer. Some still do -except there is zero verifiable evidence to support a statement that is (as at now) merely hearsay.

[boomerangutang]

Andy Hall tweets that Hannah's skirt and blouse were not found. The defense (and others concerned about finding the real killers) are concerned. RTP says essentially;, "we don't know nuttin' about Hannah's clothes. Why should investigators be concerned about a couple pieces of clothing at a crime scene?" RTP would rather spend days talking about a phone which may or may not have belonged to David, and which may or may not have been stolen. Bloody clothing? Yuk! Get it laundered or throw it away, it's a bad omen with ghosts swirling around.

[Srikcir]

Didn't police originally say they have a fingerprint match on the hoe from one of the accused?

Now along with the lack of matching DNA, the prints don't match either accused.

Will Prayut get his reward back from the police if the accused are ruled not guilty?

[realenglish1]

This is what happens when politicians put pressure on the Thai police Politicians should have no influence on the police as far as investigations are concerned.

Now you know why no one trusts the police They do not know how to do their jobs

Its that simple. This lies squarely in the hands of the commander

[lannarebirth]

So the only thing that makes the b2 suspects is they that they were at the beach that night/morning ?

No, it's that they were there on that night, that they said they just happened to find a phone identical to one of the one taken from one of the victims and that there are DNA results, that so far have not been contested, that link them to the crime.

Their explanations of what they did on that night leave a lot to be desired, from what they've said so far it sounds like a string of very convenient coincidences.

As for the bottles, I don't remember any mention of bottles being found at the place were they had been sitting, on the other hand cigarette butts were found and checked for DNA and that's one of the clues that led to their arrest; according to their account they drank three bottles of beer and one of wine on that spot.

Seems to me the DNA "results" that supposedly link them to the crime are only the word of the investigating officer, who admits he doesn't know what was tested, what the results were, and where the evidence is now. DNA is not magic. They might get DNA from a cigaret butt, for example, which would prove that the person was where the cigaret butt was found at some time in the past, but it wouldn't tell you when. It might have been a day or a week before the time of the crime. Well, not a week, the DNA would have broken down to the point it was not identifiable in a week outdoors (I think). Were the cigaret butts found with the bodies? If they were some distance away the B2 could have been there and not seen the bodies, or been there before the murder was committed. Why they are talking about the DNA on the hoe I don't understand. That's roughly like getting DNA or fingerprints from a 20 baht note. Ain't gonna happen in real life.

One of the real problems here is that police officers buy their office, much like the British Army before the Crimean War. As a result the high ranking officers are people who know how to exploit their position to make money. Some of them are probably excellent managers, too -- that's really the important part of being a high-ranking officer, in the Army as well. However, they all are ignorant of science and the Thai legal system developed a great dependence on eyewitness testimony, rather than physical evidence. One result is that the RTP now have far too few qualified forensic investigators and detectives (and common street cops) don't know anything about preserving crime scenes or investigating them. Oh, and Dr. Porntip seems to love tweaking their noses, so they hate her and despise anybody who knows anything about forensic science. There was a case in Chiang Mai a few years ago where a farang woman was strangled. I think the body was moved to the morgue before photographers arrived and the police escorted dozens of media reporters people through the crime scene before any forensic specialists arrived.

This case should simply be thrown out with prejudice for lack of relevant evidence.

There have also been cases where the RTP has tried to get prisoners to jack off so they can provide semen samples. In the hopes they can then plant those semen samples where it does the prosecution the most good. Dr. Pornthip has spoken to the fact that the Chain Of Custody of DNA samples has been broken If the CoC is broken it is just as easy to find innocent men guilty as innocent.

[spidermike007]

Has Toscano and others on a similar tack not been following this? It's the chain of custody that's in question as Rykbanlor has stated. The RTP have not been able to provide evidence that a proper chain of custody was complied with, hence the so-called B2's 'sperm' could have been planted at several stages be4 it was tested and as he also says the samples weren't collected by a forensic pathologist in the 1st place!

"The RTP have not been able to provide evidence that a proper chain of custody was complied with"

Haven't them or is it just something people say, the often quoted "everybody knows"?

As for your theories regarding the DNA evidence it is dead simple to validate them, get documentation showing the DNA typing as used during the first days of the investigation, compare it with the DNA typing from the defendants and if it doesn't match then there's grounds to dismiss the evidence as being altered to frame the accused after their arrest.

My guess is that the defense will not do that; because while having such theories bouncing around the media (social or otherwise) may be good from a marketing point of view, they have already shown not to be interested in directly refuting the inculpatory DNA evidence.

Your condescending tone and allusions to "marketing" on the part of the defence display the kind of disregard you obviously have for this whole trial.

And how could any reasonable mind have high regard for this trial? Do you honestly believe they found "the honest and objective judge" that is not influenced by politics?

[canuckamuck]

Slowly the defense is building what will be seen as an avalanche of evidence of a cover up. But I have serious doubts that any new investigation will begin after this trial.

[Rykbanlor]

Slowly the defense is building what will be seen as an avalanche of evidence of a cover up. But I have serious doubts that any new investigation will begin after this trial.

I suspect that even if the accused are acquitted, the prosecution will try to appeal the verdict resulting in a long drawn out affair that will serve no other purpose than to deflect attention from the pursual of the actual culprits.

As it stands the the Police have been asked to determine whose DNA was on the hoe, let's see if that happens and it should be good indicator of whether there is a chance of a proper investigation being done. My money is on NOT.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Rykbanlor

[Oziex1]

This is what happens when politicians put pressure on the Thai police Politicians should have no influence on the police as far as investigations are concerned.

Now you know why no one trusts the police They do not know how to do their jobs

Its that simple. This lies squarely in the hands of the commander

I believe it goes above that and it is what happens when the well connected and very corrupt, call in favors from the PM who responds by making sure the guilty are protected.

[stephenterry]

Worthwhile repeating this news extract, as it is verifiable evidence that differs significantly from that of the Thai pathologist's report.

During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration.

“I want to show up every mistake one at a time,” said Mr Chomphuchat (defence lawyer). “I want to let the judges see everything and judge it well.”

----------------------------------------------------

One poster mentioned it could be a set of DNA found under fingernails, and considering Hannah had a blond hair clutched in her hand, this is plausible. However, it doesn't answer the question of what was different because the Norfolk coroner wouldn't have any suspects DNA to compare with. It could be a non-asian DNA, though.

It could be possible that the cause of death (the simplest explanation provided by the Norwich coroner) differed significantly. Speculation by the Sunday Times suggested that gunshot residue was found. Or perhaps knife wounds as well as the alleged hoe.

There could be more, because she used the plural word 'differences' and not the singular 'significant difference'. I could speculate that Hannah was NOT raped, as alleged to date, although I think that unlikely. There must be more, maybe drug chemicals in her bloodstream? That is plausible.

In her words, natural justice for the accused, who have been accused of rape and murder - motivation of attack - lust, not drugging the victim.

Edited September 12, 2015 by stephenterry

[saminoz]

Oh dear look who's here!

I reckon the RTP have given up so somebodies got to bat for them I suppose

Earning his salary perhaps? What's the going rate for a shill? No hassle from the local constabulary for a period?

[saminoz]

<<<It shows the world how bad the RTP are. But more importantly it shows the corruption that controls Thai society.>>>

Release the B2 and ensure they are properly compensated and, restart the investigation and apprehend the 2 or 3

pretty well-known ​perpetrators who may still be on Death Island!!!!

What we need right now is a watch put on the "2 or 3 well known" to give notice if they suddenly start planning trips abroad!! Chickens coming home to roost!

[arrowsdawdle]

Then why does this charade have to continue? Doesn't the justice system have anyone with conscience to do the honorable thing. I wonder if in the system there are provisions for bringing charges to anyone who engages in coverup, purgery and making attempts to pin evidence on innocent subjects. Is there any provision to bring and lay charges in the event such acts deemed to have taken place?

Not possible, otherwise the coup generals and cronies that set up Mr. T would have plenty of answering to do.

[stephenterry]

Slowly the defense is building what will be seen as an avalanche of evidence of a cover up. But I have serious doubts that any new investigation will begin after this trial.

I suspect that even if the accused are acquitted, the prosecution will try to appeal the verdict resulting in a long drawn out affair that will serve no other purpose than to deflect attention from the pursual of the actual culprits.

As it stands the the Police have been asked to determine whose DNA was on the hoe, let's see if that happens and it should be good indicator of whether there is a chance of a proper investigation being done. My money is on NOT.

This is possible. However, I also think it's a long-shot that if the defence dismantles the prosecution's case piece by piece, and the B2 are found not-guilty, that any appeal made by the prosecution might not be accepted by the court of appeal (owing to lack of any substantiated evidence).

Whether the RTP would re-open the investigation is moot, however I can bet my house that the DNA trail will prove to be lost, mislaid, cremated, or would be identified as the gardener and ANO who won't be connected to the Headman's family, and has left Thailand anyway. A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out.

[MaxLee]

Now lets see what treacherous tricks the Koh Tao mafia is gonna pull off now.

I wouldn't be surprised if they go over dead bodies behind closed door

[sweatalot]

i imagine there are some very bewildered old thai officials that can't comprehend how all of their tried and true methods of getting the results they want are now failing.

the lying, payoffs, scapegoats, stall tactics, methods have worked for years, and the thai public has always played their part by shrugginh their shoulders and rolling their eyes, and just getting on with their lives knowing that the corruption problems were too big to fix.

then facebook, twitter, chatroom discussions, smart phone video feeds come along and screw evrything up by shining a spotlight on the lies and corruption.

damn those foreigners and young thais and their social media relentlessness!

it will be interesting too see how the thai officials will try to weasel their way out from under this international scrutiny. some very clever lies and desperate finger pointing will be popping up soon i imagine.

but most important they hopefully learn to leave their old corrupt methods and know that they are under observation now.

[lucaswallachia]

No, it's that they were there on that night, that they said they just happened to find a phone identical to one of the one taken from one of the victims and that there are DNA results, that so far have not been contested, that link them to the crime.

Their explanations of what they did on that night leave a lot to be desired, from what they've said so far it sounds like a string of very convenient coincidences.

As for the bottles, I don't remember any mention of bottles being found at the place were they had been sitting, on the other hand cigarette butts were found and checked for DNA and that's one of the clues that led to their arrest; according to their account they drank three bottles of beer and one of wine on that spot.

Ok, so what do you think of what they said they did that night are a coincidence?

They claim they just happened to find a phone identical to the one that was missing from one of the victims near the scene of the murders (without otherwise noticing anything else), also that the clothes they were wearing on that night were stolen when they went for a swim. So the first coincidence is that of all of the people on the island the police would have picked these two "scapegoats" that just happened to have found that phone on that night at that place, and the second that when, presumably, asked about the clothes they were wearing on that night, that if they took part in the murders would probably be bloodstained, they just happened to had been stolen when they went for a swim on that night.

Ok, good points. If their clothes got stolen then i wonder if they would of had wallets, phones, scooter/bike keys etc in the pockets that would of been stolen along with them?

[sweatalot]

Ok, so what do you think of what they said they did that night are a coincidence?

They claim they just happened to find a phone identical to the one that was missing from one of the victims near the scene of the murders (without otherwise noticing anything else), also that the clothes they were wearing on that night were stolen when they went for a swim. So the first coincidence is that of all of the people on the island the police would have picked these two "scapegoats" that just happened to have found that phone on that night at that place, and the second that when, presumably, asked about the clothes they were wearing on that night, that if they took part in the murders would probably be bloodstained, they just happened to had been stolen when they went for a swim on that night.

why hasnt this clown [aleG] been banned already,? what a lowlife scumbag,

And why doesn't he explain where the clothes are from Hannah that seem to be missing then if he's worried about clothes missing!. Or what about the blond hair that's missing from the police DNA. Or how about who does the phone/phones belong too as that hasn't been proven. Or how about the mysterious un hoe like marks on David! Or the missing DNA ,used or degraded etc on cigarette butt. Or the failure to find DNA on the hoe belonging to anybody that now suddenly has two peoples DNA on but surprisingly not the B2. Or the missing or not produced CCTV from all around the crime scene vicinity. Or failing to recognize the possibility that the perps left the island on the ferry that morning and didnt think it's was a good idea to check CCTV. Or where the so called DNA taken from Nomsad has gone as none of his RTP seem to know. Or why bodies or body where moved at the crime scene allegedly to protect the scene from tides when it was clear that the tide was on the way out after the murders and wouldn't be back in for at least 6 hours. Or why clothes on the crime scene were collected before any DNA was obtained. Or failure to follow up,on running man and the people seen close to him on that night. Or why no rights were given to the accused,no recordings of interviews taken and no credible translator employed. Or why they were tortured !. Or ,Or Or, yes I could go on and on and when the supporters of the RTP answer these questions sensibly and with credibility I maybe listen to them. I could mention the silence coming out from Koh Tao but I won't !!

thank you Nige, that sums it up very nicely

[sweatalot]

ORDER IN THE HOUSE PLEASE FELLOW MEMBERS..

You all seem to have missed one of the most important turning points of this case today.

I quote:

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration"

What has happened today is the defence has provided significant evidence to the court without Public disclosure. Such is the gravity of the information that Norfolk Coroner Jacqueline Lake decided it was her duty to allow this information to be provided to the court. Its been washed over and no real weight given in this thread but it is significant.

Andy Hall told us he had "Fantastic" information from the UK. Is this what he was referring to and how could the Coroner provide evidence that is significantly different.

What could that mean?

We know the victim is deceased so no conflicting story's there.

She couldn't have ascertained the time of death so no difference there either.

We know the victim is the person on her passport so no difference there.

It wouldn't relate to her blood samples I doubt as that's not an issue if she had drink or drugs inside her.

No she has released the report for consideration by the Thai Court because she has found a significant discrepancy in the Thai pathologist report.

What does that tell us?? well I suggest the cause of Death could be one of the Main differences she could have found.

Was Hannah Witheridge Shot?? Its been rumoured she had.

Ref: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ask yourselves Ladies and Gentlemen and anyone in-between as I am a fully inclusive person, why has a UK Coroner decided to send her report to Thailand in rebuttal of the Thai Police Pathologist report.

Its different... It has conflicting findings... What are they... ??? I would love to know.

Thank you for this post Madaussie.

Now, if the B2 are convicted the report has to be made public.

And if it says what we guess every effort possible effort has to be applied to arrest and convict the murderers and their accomplices.

[spidermike007]

This is what happens when politicians put pressure on the Thai police Politicians should have no influence on the police as far as investigations are concerned.

Now you know why no one trusts the police They do not know how to do their jobs

Its that simple. This lies squarely in the hands of the commander

I believe it goes above that and it is what happens when the well connected and very corrupt, call in favors from the PM who responds by making sure the guilty are protected.

Frankly, I doubt the PM is involved. Certainly the local police, and the state police are involved in a massive cover up. I think it is the lack of involvement of the PM, that is more worrisome, especially in the current climate of "moving the nation forward".

[sweatalot]

No, it came more than two months after the autopsy.

The British Inquest didn't start until Jan 2015. The family made their 'difficult case to answer' comments beginning of December 2014 so how can they be basing it from information from a British Coroner's report?

January was an adjournment hearing until Oct. There has been NO inquest yet. The family doesn't have the findings until the inquest. So this highlights the fact that AleG doesn't understand UK procedure. Don't take it personally AleG as it isn't meant to belittle you I am just making the point your incorrect in your assumptions.

"this highlights the fact that AleG doesn't understand UK procedure."

May be he knows very well, but hopes we instead do not know

[ronwparker]

I want to know when they are going to release them-they will probably deport them to save face!

[Darkknight666]

You guys just gotta let what Happy Joe et al says roll off your backs.. Just don't engage them or if you must, just discuss the trial and not who they are or why they're here.. I'm posting carefully in hopes the thread stays open... The less work mods have to do the better chances are they will keep it open.

[sweatalot]

Hope these guys sue the police for false imprisonment,

Conspiracy to falsely convict them, false arrest, deformation,

And any other charges their lawyers can find. Should

Be compensated ...B20,000000 each.

Unluckily the two scapegoats were in Thailand illegally.... now they are in Thailand legally. If found to be innocent they will be given each , one plastic container with fried rice inside and a bus ticket , one way to Ranong.

Let all hope this trial gets the results it should have and these two lads can return home to their families...

that's not enough