Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[sweatalot]

This is what happens when politicians put pressure on the Thai police Politicians should have no influence on the police as far as investigations are concerned.

Now you know why no one trusts the police They do not know how to do their jobs

Its that simple. This lies squarely in the hands of the commander

Do you really believe it happens only " when politicians put pressure on the Thai police"

[Rykbanlor]

You guys just gotta let what Happy Joe et al says roll off your backs.. Just don't engage them or if you must, just discuss the trial and not who they are or why they're here.. I'm posting carefully in hopes the thread stays open... The less work mods have to do the better chances are they will keep it open.

Word. It's a busy day and I'm all out of likes. This is good advice. Less interaction leaves less chance for tempers to fray and keeps us on topic.

[sweatalot]

Slowly the defense is building what will be seen as an avalanche of evidence of a cover up. But I have serious doubts that any new investigation will begin after this trial.

I suspect that even if the accused are acquitted, the prosecution will try to appeal the verdict resulting in a long drawn out affair that will serve no other purpose than to deflect attention from the pursual of the actual culprits.

As it stands the the Police have been asked to determine whose DNA was on the hoe, let's see if that happens and it should be good indicator of whether there is a chance of a proper investigation being done. My money is on NOT.

This is possible. However, I also think it's a long-shot that if the defence dismantles the prosecution's case piece by piece, and the B2 are found not-guilty, that any appeal made by the prosecution might not be accepted by the court of appeal (owing to lack of any substantiated evidence).

Whether the RTP would re-open the investigation is moot, however I can bet my house that the DNA trail will prove to be lost, mislaid, cremated, or would be identified as the gardener and ANO who won't be connected to the Headman's family, and has left Thailand anyway. A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out.

" A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out."

May be you are right unfortunately.

BUT IT IS THEIR DARN DUTY TO DO THIS

[saminoz]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

DNA matches from the hoe were never part of the prosecution case against the Burmese, the principal evidence is DNA evidence recovered from inside the body of the rape victim.

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

"{DNA matches from the hoe were never part of the prosecution case against the Burmese" - Simply because they couldn't make a case with that.

"the principal evidence is DNA evidence recovered from inside the body of the rape victim". - Should really read "allegedly recovered from the body of the rape victim". RTP have shown themselves to be generally incompetent when handling DNA (remember the RTP Forensic Colonel who claimed under oath that there was no DNA evidence on the hoe?), this is even more so true of those on the island that supposedly collected the samples. Moreover, proper procedures were never followed and no chain of custody provided to the defence, largely rendering the RTP's DNA evidence unreliable or possibly false.

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence. - Agreed!! Do you, or do you not, think that all stops should now be pulled out to find out who, exactly, that DNA belongs to? Would you be willing to be typed? I would.

[Gweiloman]

A point about "differences" and "conflicting evidence" vis a vis the Norfolk coroner's report.

Let's say the Thai report states that DNA sample A belongs to individual X and DNA sample B belongs to individual Y.

Norfolk coroner finds that DNA sample A belonged to individual Y and DNA sample B belongs to individual X.

This would be conflicting.

However, if the Norfolk coroner finds that neither DNA sample A nor B belongs to either individuals, that would be a "difference" in findings. So I'm tempted to believe that there were semen samples found in which the DNA does not match either of the two accused

[Gweiloman]

DNA matches from the hoe were never part of the prosecution case against the Burmese, the principal evidence is DNA evidence recovered from inside the body of the rape victim.

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

"{DNA matches from the hoe were never part of the prosecution case against the Burmese" - Simply because they couldn't make a case with that.

"the principal evidence is DNA evidence recovered from inside the body of the rape victim". - Should really read "allegedly recovered from the body of the rape victim". RTP have shown themselves to be generally incompetent when handling DNA (remember the RTP Forensic Colonel who claimed under oath that there was no DNA evidence on the hoe?), this is even more so true of those on the island that supposedly collected the samples. Moreover, proper procedures were never followed and no chain of custody provided to the defence, largely rendering the RTP's DNA evidence unreliable or possibly false.

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence. - Agreed!! Do you, or do you not, think that all stops should now be pulled out to find out who, exactly, that DNA belongs to? Would you be willing to be typed? I would.

First of all, the phone was damning evidence. Since it could not be conclusively proven that it belonged to one of the victims, it gets drop (not by the prosecution mind you, but by THE shill on TV) as not being part of the case.

The hoe, which was a further piece of damning evidence has suffered the same fate.

I would venture that semen samples may well go the way of the first two pieces of damning evidence.

All that would be left is senior RTP officials pointing fingers at the B2 saying, "They did it". The whole world would be scratching their heads in disbelief while 2 or 3 TV posters would be applauding saying, "there! we told you so"

[KunMatt]

This is what happens when politicians put pressure on the Thai police Politicians should have no influence on the police as far as investigations are concerned.

Now you know why no one trusts the police They do not know how to do their jobs

Its that simple. This lies squarely in the hands of the commander

I believe it goes above that and it is what happens when the well connected and very corrupt, call in favors from the PM who responds by making sure the guilty are protected.

Frankly, I doubt the PM is involved. Certainly the local police, and the state police are involved in a massive cover up. I think it is the lack of involvement of the PM, that is more worrisome, especially in the current climate of "moving the nation forward".

We'll never know the real reason why the PM said the case was perfect or how involved he was with it but if the police chief came to him and said "we have a DNA match with the victims and the B2, we have witnesses, a re-enactment and they have both confessed to the crime" then I'm sure the PM would believe the case was solid.

[Just1Voice]

Mistake after mistake,

Blunder after blunder,

Lie after lie,

"I don't know" after "I don't know"

"Didn't think it was important", after "Didn't think it was important."

Chain of custody completely ignored.

Ignorant statement on top of ignorant statement.

Excuse after excuse.

All this, blatantly and obviously "in your face" proof of a total screw up, and yet there are still "shills" (and you know who you are), who cling desperately to the lie that the RTP have a "perfect"case and the B2 are obviously guilty. How do you people sleep at night?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Alas in light of all of this evidence clearly demonstrating that B2 are innocent, it is really going to sting when the guilty verdict is handed down.

The Thai elite know that the wrong people are on trial and that the west will be infuriated by a guilty verdict.

But, guess what, they don't care.

[catsanddogs]

“I want to show up every mistake one at a time,” said Mr Chomphuchat. “I want to let the judges see everything and judge it well.”

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

[catsanddogs]

“The documents have been edited. The dates are not right,” Dr Pornthip, who has decades of experience in forensic science, told the three sitting judges.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Felt this needed re-posting. Her statement reminded me of the discussions concerning the possible editing and date discrepancies related to the CCTV in Bangkok (original suspect).

[fireplay]

This request for the police to find the owners of the dna...who is it coming from? The article sarah wrote says Mr. Chomphuchat was surprised. Are the judges requesting the police re eximine and identify the new dna profiles found on the hoe? Or is it Dr. Pornthip and the defense asking the judges to ask the police?

[stephenterry]

A point about "differences" and "conflicting evidence" vis a vis the Norfolk coroner's report.

Let's say the Thai report states that DNA sample A belongs to individual X and DNA sample B belongs to individual Y.

Norfolk coroner finds that DNA sample A belonged to individual Y and DNA sample B belongs to individual X.

This would be conflicting.

However, if the Norfolk coroner finds that neither DNA sample A nor B belongs to either individuals, that would be a "difference" in findings. So I'm tempted to believe that there were semen samples found in which the DNA does not match either of the two accused

Remember, an autopsy is performed primarily to establish cause of death. Vital organs are examined and tissue samples taken. Most likely scenario is that there were substantial differences in determining death. Thai postmortem reports do tend to avoid mentioning drugs, including alcohol, in respect of victims' families but that is pure conjecture here.

Now, assuming the Thai report also took DNA from sperm samples (owing to crime investigation) and that task was able to be (and needed to be) duplicated by the Norfolk coroner, there could be a profile discrepancy there, but I think it is less likely to do with who the samples came from, unless one such sample was non-Asian.

Whatever, clearly the UK coroner felt it was 'natural justice' to release this information that clearly benefited the accused. Good on her.

[Neeranam]

Alas in light of all of this evidence clearly demonstrating that B2 are innocent, it is really going to sting when the guilty verdict is handed down.

The Thai elite know that the wrong people are on trial and that the west will be infuriated by a guilty verdict.

But, guess what, they don't care.

There are a lot ore important things on their agendas than the deaths of two farang and two Burmese scapegoats.

[stephenterry]

snip

Whether the RTP would re-open the investigation is moot, however I can bet my house that the DNA trail will prove to be lost, mislaid, cremated, or would be identified as the gardener and ANO who won't be connected to the Headman's family, and has left Thailand anyway. A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out.

" A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out."

May be you are right unfortunately.

BUT IT IS THEIR DARN DUTY TO DO THIS

And like I said, even if they could be cajoled into carrying out their duty, could anyone trust them to find the right suspects, or even want to? I wouldn't.

[Darkknight666]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

[stephenterry]

Alas in light of all of this evidence clearly demonstrating that B2 are innocent, it is really going to sting when the guilty verdict is handed down.

The Thai elite know that the wrong people are on trial and that the west will be infuriated by a guilty verdict.

But, guess what, they don't care.

There are a lot ore important things on their agendas than the deaths of two farang and two Burmese scapegoats.

Such as........?

Well, if we're talking crime, capture the BKK bombers for starters.

[Gweiloman]

“The documents have been edited. The dates are not right,” Dr Pornthip, who has decades of experience in forensic science, told the three sitting judges.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Felt this needed re-posting. Her statement reminded me of the discussions concerning the possible editing and date discrepancies related to the CCTV in Bangkok (original suspect).

It's a shame we don't know more about what exactly was edited. Just the dates? What sort of significance would have? Because, ultimately, the key is the DNA sample. Altering a date on a document would not affect the test results (unless the samples were switched).

I believe the CCTV in Bangkok is genuine. But it proves nothing other than that the individual in question was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was in his room from the previous midnight. Videos of him entering his apartment would have been conclusive but does that exist????

[stephenterry]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Now that the defence is starting to unravel the prosecution's case (and there are more expert witnesses yet to testify) I am more optimistic that the judges will reason that the prosecution has not proven their case beyond reasonable doubt. That is a diplomatic way of stating it's so full of holes as to be ludicrous. Thus they could use this reasoning to pronounce the B2 not guilty of rape and murder, and possibly also dismiss the minor charges.

What is beneficial to the defence is that there are three judges who will probably find a common ground to agree upon, so it's less likely to be a whitewash.

[catsanddogs]

“The documents have been edited. The dates are not right,” Dr Pornthip, who has decades of experience in forensic science, told the three sitting judges.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Felt this needed re-posting. Her statement reminded me of the discussions concerning the possible editing and date discrepancies related to the CCTV in Bangkok (original suspect).

It's a shame we don't know more about what exactly was edited. Just the dates? What sort of significance would have? Because, ultimately, the key is the DNA sample. Altering a date on a document would not affect the test results (unless the samples were switched).

I believe the CCTV in Bangkok is genuine. But it proves nothing other than that the individual in question was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was in his room from the previous midnight. Videos of him entering his apartment would have been conclusive but does that exist????

Sample switching'relabelling top of the list for me. Also remember that the B2 were photographed in the queue to give DNA earlier on in the investigation, but all those tests came up as negatives. Then they were later arrested and hey presto their DNA miraculously matched. Some will dispute that they had their DNA taken the first time round then but I think it unlikely they were queuing for chips or ice cream. That could have something to do with the dates maybe, or maybe not.

[catsanddogs]

snip

Whether the RTP would re-open the investigation is moot, however I can bet my house that the DNA trail will prove to be lost, mislaid, cremated, or would be identified as the gardener and ANO who won't be connected to the Headman's family, and has left Thailand anyway. A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out.

" A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out."

May be you are right unfortunately.

BUT IT IS THEIR DARN DUTY TO DO THIS

And like I said, even if they could be cajoled into carrying out their duty, could anyone trust them to find the right suspects, or even want to? I wouldn't.

Well they could certainly be trusted to find and have the original suspects re-tested (independently of course). If the RTP have lost the paperwork/names/information of the original suspects there are plenty on here who could help them out.

[dunroaming]

I think one big mistake made by the RTP was to use the wrong people to stitch up. If they had picked a couple of Burmese men who looked thuggish and hard nosed then maybe they could have made a better job of it. To pick a couple of boys who look like everyone's favourite nephew was a big error.

[Darkknight666]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Now that the defence is starting to unravel the prosecution's case (and there are more expert witnesses yet to testify) I am more optimistic that the judges will reason that the prosecution has not proven their case beyond reasonable doubt. That is a diplomatic way of stating it's so full of holes as to be ludicrous. Thus they could use this reasoning to pronounce the B2 not guilty of rape and murder, and possibly also dismiss the minor charges.

What is beneficial to the defence is that there are three judges who will probably find a common ground to agree upon, so it's less likely to be a whitewash.

We just can't be too sure either way, can we? I would expect that this case would be thrown out at the very first opportunity by the Judges and that they would demand the police rework the leads and evidence to the best of their abilities. Alas, TIT and they can dish out whatever they feel like. I really hope, for the sake of the nation and its people, that the people overseeing this case will take advantage of the media attention and show the world justice matters in Thailand.

[stephenterry]

I think one big mistake made by the RTP was to use the wrong people to stitch up. If they had picked a couple of Burmese men who looked thuggish and hard nosed then maybe they could have made a better job of it. To pick a couple of boys who look like everyone's favourite nephew was a big error.

Laugh of the day. The RTP made a big error.

[Madaussie]

ORDER IN THE HOUSE PLEASE FELLOW MEMBERS..

You all seem to have missed one of the most important turning points of this case today.

I quote:

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration"

What has happened today is the defence has provided significant evidence to the court without Public disclosure. Such is the gravity of the information that Norfolk Coroner Jacqueline Lake decided it was her duty to allow this information to be provided to the court. Its been washed over and no real weight given in this thread but it is significant.

Andy Hall told us he had "Fantastic" information from the UK. Is this what he was referring to and how could the Coroner provide evidence that is significantly different.

What could that mean?

We know the victim is deceased so no conflicting story's there.

She couldn't have ascertained the time of death so no difference there either.

We know the victim is the person on her passport so no difference there.

It wouldn't relate to her blood samples I doubt as that's not an issue if she had drink or drugs inside her.

No she has released the report for consideration by the Thai Court because she has found a significant discrepancy in the Thai pathologist report.

What does that tell us?? well I suggest the cause of Death could be one of the Main differences she could have found.

Was Hannah Witheridge Shot?? Its been rumoured she had.

Ref: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ask yourselves Ladies and Gentlemen and anyone in-between as I am a fully inclusive person, why has a UK Coroner decided to send her report to Thailand in rebuttal of the Thai Police Pathologist report.

Its different... It has conflicting findings... What are they... ??? I would love to know.

My hunch is that the UK Coroner has found DNA evidence from under the fingernails of the victim which is crucial and conflicting. No prizes for guessing who's it is though because its far too obvious.

Transporter, Fair Dinkum M8..........I thought the same..

Then my Sheila said to me how did the UK coroner that the DNA was conflicting with the B2 DNA....She didn't have it. She had a Royal Thai Police Pathologist Report as to the cause of death detailing the injury's of the deceased.

Phew......yep M8... I see where ya coming from.. the significant differences will be based around the 2 different Forensic autopsy reports. This will include the injury's and cause of death. So theres a difference so great she had to rub the RTP pathologist face in the sand and bring this up.

Now she may of retrieved DNA as well. and I think that's a highly probably possibility but she wouldn't of known of a conflict. She will have it available and maybe defence has recovered it for testing but you watch and see. Theres going to be a slap in the face coming. I had information this morning giving me an idea what it is but it was in confidence so ya'll goner have to wait and see for ya selfs.. ..

[aslimversgwm]

ORDER IN THE HOUSE PLEASE FELLOW MEMBERS..

You all seem to have missed one of the most important turning points of this case today.

I quote:

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration"

What has happened today is the defence has provided significant evidence to the court without Public disclosure. Such is the gravity of the information that Norfolk Coroner Jacqueline Lake decided it was her duty to allow this information to be provided to the court. Its been washed over and no real weight given in this thread but it is significant.

Andy Hall told us he had "Fantastic" information from the UK. Is this what he was referring to and how could the Coroner provide evidence that is significantly different.

What could that mean?

We know the victim is deceased so no conflicting story's there.

She couldn't have ascertained the time of death so no difference there either.

We know the victim is the person on her passport so no difference there.

It wouldn't relate to her blood samples I doubt as that's not an issue if she had drink or drugs inside her.

No she has released the report for consideration by the Thai Court because she has found a significant discrepancy in the Thai pathologist report.

What does that tell us?? well I suggest the cause of Death could be one of the Main differences she could have found.

Was Hannah Witheridge Shot?? Its been rumoured she had.

Ref: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ask yourselves Ladies and Gentlemen and anyone in-between as I am a fully inclusive person, why has a UK Coroner decided to send her report to Thailand in rebuttal of the Thai Police Pathologist report.

Its different... It has conflicting findings... What are they... ??? I would love to know.

Differences in the reports and conflicting findings are not the same thing, the families of the victims would certainly be aware of the results of the coroner inquest and if it had uncover something like a gunshot or a anything that conclusively disproves the case against the two Burmese they wouldn't have said things like the two defendants having a difficult case to answer for.

The defense has made it very clear that they want the case to be judged in the "Court of public opinion", and never been shy about parading whatever findings they could use to undermine the prosecution case, so I wouldn't put my hopes up for any earth shattering revelations on that report.

Oh Mr AleG..

I am happy to debate this with you.

" It has conflicting findings" is my words

"significant differences" is the reported words.... however they mean one and the same to me.

Your understanding of the English language is perhaps somewhat limited so I will make allowances however your understanding of English coroners procedure falls far short for you to be able to make these comments.

And let me explain why.

The Coroner works independently of the FCO and the police. They do not report to the familys or seek permission when they make decisions on what evidence they will provide to another jurisdiction.

The Inquest has not even taken place just preliminary hearings to arrange adjournments. The family will be invited to attend the hearing later on in the year.

There is NO link between the familys statements and the coroner. None what so ever. The family statements are linked to the MPS and the FCO who have not supplied ANY information to the court. In fact last December a report went out on how the thought their was inconsistences in the case and this has been proven many times by other posters.

I find your attitude and some what hopefulness somewhat strange in the way you seem to desire them to be found guilty come what ever. Even if there is evidence?.

The UK coroner hasn't sent her findings to the court just to upset the Thai Pathologist she has done it because she believes in Natural Justice. She has information she knows will help the B2 prove their innocence. Because the UK inquest hasn't taken place it may be the case that she has asked for non disclosure prior to her case hearing in order to protect the family's back in the UK. Whatever it is she has felt the need to inform the court of evidence that will make sure justice is served in this case.

Your Party's nearly over my friend. Justice could well be seen to be served up here.

And remember this the UK coroner doesn't have the B2 DNA profiles either does she. So her revelations are possibly something else so important she has had to disclose it.

Fantastic response to Mr. AleG - let's see him riggle out of that one!

[Madaussie]

So the only thing that makes the b2 suspects is they that they were at the beach that night/morning ?

No, it's that they were there on that night, that they said they just happened to find a phone identical to one of the one taken from one of the victims and that there are DNA results, that so far have not been contested, that link them to the crime.

Their explanations of what they did on that night leave a lot to be desired, from what they've said so far it sounds like a string of very convenient coincidences.

As for the bottles, I don't remember any mention of bottles being found at the place were they had been sitting, on the other hand cigarette butts were found and checked for DNA and that's one of the clues that led to their arrest; according to their account they drank three bottles of beer and one of wine on that spot.

Seems to me the DNA "results" that supposedly link them to the crime are only the word of the investigating officer, who admits he doesn't know what was tested, what the results were, and where the evidence is now. DNA is not magic. They might get DNA from a cigaret butt, for example, which would prove that the person was where the cigaret butt was found at some time in the past, but it wouldn't tell you when. It might have been a day or a week before the time of the crime. Well, not a week, the DNA would have broken down to the point it was not identifiable in a week outdoors (I think). Were the cigaret butts found with the bodies? If they were some distance away the B2 could have been there and not seen the bodies, or been there before the murder was committed. Why they are talking about the DNA on the hoe I don't understand. That's roughly like getting DNA or fingerprints from a 20 baht note. Ain't gonna happen in real life.

One of the real problems here is that police officers buy their office, much like the British Army before the Crimean War. As a result the high ranking officers are people who know how to exploit their position to make money. Some of them are probably excellent managers, too -- that's really the important part of being a high-ranking officer, in the Army as well. However, they all are ignorant of science and the Thai legal system developed a great dependence on eyewitness testimony, rather than physical evidence. One result is that the RTP now have far too few qualified forensic investigators and detectives (and common street cops) don't know anything about preserving crime scenes or investigating them. Oh, and Dr. Porntip seems to love tweaking their noses, so they hate her and despise anybody who knows anything about forensic science. There was a case in Chiang Mai a few years ago where a farang woman was strangled. I think the body was moved to the morgue before photographers arrived and the police escorted dozens of media reporters people through the crime scene before any forensic specialists arrived.

This case should simply be thrown out with prejudice for lack of relevant evidence.

There have also been cases where the RTP has tried to get prisoners to jack off so they can provide semen samples. In the hopes they can then plant those semen samples where it does the prosecution the most good. Dr. Pornthip has spoken to the fact that the Chain Of Custody of DNA samples has been broken If the CoC is broken it is just as easy to find innocent men guilty as innocent.

Even more so if you store the Samples in the fridge belonging to the family of one of the initial suspects....

[Madaussie]

ORDER IN THE HOUSE PLEASE FELLOW MEMBERS..

You all seem to have missed one of the most important turning points of this case today.

I quote:

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration"

What has happened today is the defence has provided significant evidence to the court without Public disclosure. Such is the gravity of the information that Norfolk Coroner Jacqueline Lake decided it was her duty to allow this information to be provided to the court. Its been washed over and no real weight given in this thread but it is significant.

Andy Hall told us he had "Fantastic" information from the UK. Is this what he was referring to and how could the Coroner provide evidence that is significantly different.

What could that mean?

We know the victim is deceased so no conflicting story's there.

She couldn't have ascertained the time of death so no difference there either.

We know the victim is the person on her passport so no difference there.

It wouldn't relate to her blood samples I doubt as that's not an issue if she had drink or drugs inside her.

No she has released the report for consideration by the Thai Court because she has found a significant discrepancy in the Thai pathologist report.

What does that tell us?? well I suggest the cause of Death could be one of the Main differences she could have found.

Was Hannah Witheridge Shot?? Its been rumoured she had.

Ref: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ask yourselves Ladies and Gentlemen and anyone in-between as I am a fully inclusive person, why has a UK Coroner decided to send her report to Thailand in rebuttal of the Thai Police Pathologist report.

Its different... It has conflicting findings... What are they... ??? I would love to know.

Thank you for this post Madaussie.

Now, if the B2 are convicted the report has to be made public.

And if it says what we guess every effort possible effort has to be applied to arrest and convict the murderers and their accomplices.

Oh My friend it will be... the real sweatalot is the RTP pathologist that is going to be due some gardening leave very soon for bringing the RTP procedures into disrepute. Now they are just tippy toeing around this and how to publicise it but its coming. You'll see.

[xenophon]

Given the current and potential loss of face in this case I am surprised these two poor guys are still alive. Still time for an accident, attempt to escape, etc.

[spidermike007]

“The documents have been edited. The dates are not right,” Dr Pornthip, who has decades of experience in forensic science, told the three sitting judges.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Felt this needed re-posting. Her statement reminded me of the discussions concerning the possible editing and date discrepancies related to the CCTV in Bangkok (original suspect).

This experts indictment of the procedures used, the shoddy gathering of evidence, the poor handling of evidence, and the lack of quality DNA testing by the illustrious RTP (ridiculously terrible policemen) is a real problem. Unless the judge was instructed to ignore all evidence contrary to the hoped for conclusion.