Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[Darkknight666]

The thing about Nomsod - if he was on the island leading up to the murder, he would have been in plain site. We know the pier CCTV footage that morning 'disappeared' but I'm just surprised that there are not more witnesses (apart form one burmese guy)

It is unlikely that a casual tourist would know NS from any other young Thai lad. The only people on KT that knows (and recognises) him would be the locals, expat residents etc.

I would imagine that they would then keep silent for obvious reasons.

Unless they were in AC bar that night and saw Warot with their own eyes pestering Hannah... Or Ekkachai... Whoever the bar altercation may have been with I'm

Sure anyone who witnesses it would recall the men's faces.

[aslimversgwm]

Washington Post

Finally, police appeared to have found their footing when they arrested two Burmese migrants who, cops claimed, had confessed to the crime.

Yet, that case has also been disintegrating from the get-go, like a courthouse made of sand.

With no DNA evidence and a contested confession, the case appears to be collapsing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/15/rape-murder-and-a-deepening-mystery-on-a-tiny-tropical-island/?postshare=5391442327496335

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 29m29 minutes ago

Washington Post - Rape, murder and a deepening mystery on a tiny tropical island http://wpo.st/BMp_0

Much of that report is garbled, and it contains some inaccuracies. However, it reminds me of one point that is interesting. Early on, it appeared the police were trying to deny the presence of semen samples. Both the claims for a while that there was no rape, and then the claim that condoms were used, point to that. Then, when semen samples were acknowledged, rather than send them to the Central Institute for Forensic Science (the body set up to ensure objective and professional analysis of forensic evidence) they carried out an improperly documented and easily falsified analysis in-house.

Agreed that the report has some inaccuracies and clearly written by someone without the benefit of a year's worth of exposure to the farce of an investigation. However, the very fact that the Washington Post is reporting it is significant as they are famous for "smelling" stories and scandals, remember Watergate?

That this travesty is now being reported in the 'states by a major media outlet is a good thing.

absolutely and I hope they continue to follow it and get their future reports 100% accurate

[Gweiloman]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

For once, a factual statement from you. They have absolutely no "more" reason to go after him. A million baht here and there is quite persuasive.

I'm hoping that somewhere in a safe place, there is indisputable evidence of the real culprit's guilt and that this evidence will surface time and again when the keeper needs a new car, a new condo, so on and so forth. After all, criminals do not have a sense of honor short of a court conviction, this would be some sort of recompense.

[Gweiloman]

A question about NS's publicly staged DNA collection. Does anyone remember what test was actually done? I remember reading that some said it was merely to prove paternity and not matched to the DNA found on Hannah.

[Darkknight666]

A question about NS's publicly staged DNA collection. Does anyone remember what test was actually done? I remember reading that some said it was merely to prove paternity and not matched to the DNA found on Hannah.

That entire press conference was run by Warot and his dad... They had full discretion what could/would happen and what could/would be released. In other words, it was horse shit.

[fritzzz25]

Oh all of a sudden you ARE educated in Thai Law, how many years have you lived here and been practicing it to be able to ridicule others ? What the flying F do you know about the Thai Justice system? If there was ever such a condescending comment made .. your post clearly takes #1 position.

Sorry for not replying to you sooner Fat Haggis but I was sure you had me confused with someone who you think cares about what you think about me personally.

As to the High Ranking Police Officer forgetting what took place a year ago, you make it sound like this is the only case he has to handle. The fact remains he probably handles several different cases a month let alone how many he would handle in a year, and in many cases dealing with the same Pathologist. You may go to one or two meetings a week and take notes for the next same meeting. Or continues daily on the same subject.

As to writing everything down and keeping a list,...Hell, I can't even remember where I put my Grocery Shopping List from last week let alone some list I made a year ago. I can't even remember how many times you personally attacked me just this month, because you take it personal and don't agree with me. But let me tell you what I do remember for sure over this past year.

I have never made claim, or even suggested, "how supper efficient the RTP have been", and as you said I did in a later post. Of course if you can prove this, which you can't, it would be nice to see a refreshing change form you, and other than attacking every poster here you do not agree with.

I am sure he has a tough time keeping track of tea money each month too. I will bet that he could tell you who paid what, and how many notes were in 1000's, 500's or 50's from each place of business. Sure hope you don't sneeze, wouldn't want your last thought to escape you.....

[tajtom]

Once upon a time they used to try to burn witches and often burned the innocent

It came back in the after life to get them

Temple will not protect the sinners

[Oziex1]

The thing about Nomsod - if he was on the island leading up to the murder, he would have been in plain site. We know the pier CCTV footage that morning 'disappeared' but I'm just surprised that there are not more witnesses (apart form one burmese guy)

I believe the consensus is that any witnesses are silenced by fear.

[glenmohr]

RIP Hannah and David, the world is a better place after your short visit.

I am impressed and encouraged by the decency and respect generated over the last 24 hours on this site. Everywhere there is always 2% who do not wish to fit in with the rest of humanity. We should leave them alone in their fantasy make believe world.

Let us all hope that justice true prevails in the current case and that Karma comes into play immediately afterwards.

[MockingJay]

The RTP officers in charge of the Koh Tao investigation are nothing but a pile of incompetent and corrupt pig manure! After the rapid fire of cockups during the investigation, the victims' families stated that they were "satisfied with the investigation led by the RTP", what to me was the biggest insult to the victims in the whole case - carried out by the people who should care the most.

All my sympathies for the parents faded back then and haven't been reinstored ever since. The whole case and the legal prodeedings in court show how low the country has sunken, a signal to the rest of the world, reassuring each and everyone that money in LOS can buy anything.

For the sake of Hannah and David I prey every day that the case is blown wide open by some proceedings error, a CCTV video of the pier that pops up magically, or a former coward eye witness (Sean?) changing his mind and stating in public under oath who the true murderers and rapists are... Unless a miracle happens, I see no chance for the B2, since the ulcer of corruption spreads from bottom to top, obviously.

Forgot to mention: Shame also on any of David's and Hannah's "friends" who witnessed what happened back at AC bar but didn't tell. I hope you will receive ample punishment for that by simple Karma. May god have mercy on your souls!

Edited September 16, 2015 by MockingJay

[JLCrab]

Fabrice Burtin ‏@Fabriceburtin 22 hours ago

@Atomicalandy @Saksith it's been a year since the 5 friends that were with them didn't come up to say what happened at the bar that evening

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 21 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin @Saksith how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 19 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin people who didn't come forward are on Koh Tao. Always cite same reason not worth it as 'businesses/families would be at risk'

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 18 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin that includes Thais, migrants (but) also lots of business owning/managing foreigners who said its not in their interests 2 speak

I like this one "how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?"

Well I guess they have about 4 more Court days to tell the world, don't they?

[GOLDBUGGY]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

For once, a factual statement from you. They have absolutely no "more" reason to go after him. A million baht here and there is quite persuasive.

I'm hoping that somewhere in a safe place, there is indisputable evidence of the real culprit's guilt and that this evidence will surface time and again when the keeper needs a new car, a new condo, so on and so forth. After all, criminals do not have a sense of honor short of a court conviction, this would be some sort of recompense.

Since you are so sure of this 1 Million Baht bribe why don't you step forward. The Defense has asked for witnesses. It is not to late to do so. Can't wait to catch you on the news.

[Wifflewaffle]

What a disgusting and poor piece of reporting by the washington post. with quotes like this

"A rusty hoe, its blade broken and caked in gore, lay nearby."

Its not gore its Hannah's Blood !

I wonder were they get such Rubbish from ?

“The second roti seller has been on the stand today, and it’s become very clear that he does not have much of grasp of Thai at all, so we don’t understand how he could have translated for police,” Andy Hall, a British migrant-rights advocate who is assisting the defense, told the newspaper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/15/rape-murder-and-a-deepening-mystery-on-a-tiny-tropical-island/?postshare=5391442327496335

[Darkknight666]

What a disgusting and poor piece of reporting by the washington post. with quotes like this

"A rusty hoe, its blade broken and caked in gore, lay nearby."

Its not gore its Hannah's Blood !

I wonder were they get such Rubbish from ?

The second roti seller has been on the stand today, and its become very clear that he does not have much of grasp of Thai at all, so we dont understand how he could have translated for police, Andy Hall, a British migrant-rights advocate who is assisting the defense, told the newspaper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/15/rape-murder-and-a-deepening-mystery-on-a-tiny-tropical-island/?postshare=5391442327496335

I've messaged the reporter to tell him exactly what you just said.... Will update when I hear back from him.

[stephenterry]

The thing about Nomsod - if he was on the island leading up to the murder, he would have been in plain site. We know the pier CCTV footage that morning 'disappeared' but I'm just surprised that there are not more witnesses (apart form one burmese guy)

I believe the consensus is that any witnesses are silenced by fear.

It is also feasible that the only witnesses were the murderers and their thugs. Probably a lot of hearsay by others on the peripherals, but no independent eye-witnesses to the crimes. Or if there happened to be the odd-bod, he/she would not want to risk his/her family or his/her business by making a statement, that at best would only be collateral evidence.

I understand that two UK 'witnesses' are due to give evidence next week. Maybe they will be able to shed more light on what happened that night.

[Darkknight666]

What kind of A-hole puts up a "reward" for someone to implicate his family in a crime? Most people would offer condolences and reassure the public they want justice as well. Seemed like more of a threat to me.. "I have money, mess with me and I can retaliate any way necessary". What a clown.

[stephenterry]

Fabrice Burtin ‏@Fabriceburtin 22 hours ago

@Atomicalandy @Saksith it's been a year since the 5 friends that were with them didn't come up to say what happened at the bar that evening

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 21 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin @Saksith how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 19 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin people who didn't come forward are on Koh Tao. Always cite same reason not worth it as 'businesses/families would be at risk'

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 18 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin that includes Thais, migrants (but) also lots of business owning/managing foreigners who said its not in their interests 2 speak

I like this one "how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?"

Well I guess they have about 4 more Court days to tell the world, don't they?

At which point their testimony would have the maximum impact. Seems a sensible ploy to me.

[JLCrab]

Fabrice Burtin ‏@Fabriceburtin 22 hours ago

@Atomicalandy @Saksith it's been a year since the 5 friends that were with them didn't come up to say what happened at the bar that evening

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 21 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin @Saksith how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 19 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin people who didn't come forward are on Koh Tao. Always cite same reason not worth it as 'businesses/families would be at risk'

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 18 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin that includes Thais, migrants (but) also lots of business owning/managing foreigners who said its not in their interests 2 speak

I like this one "how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?"

Well I guess they have about 4 more Court days to tell the world, don't they?

At which point their testimony would have the maximum impact. Seems a sensible ploy to me.

Sure ... as long as the clock doesn't run out on them.

[stephenterry]

What kind of A-hole puts up a "reward" for someone to implicate his family in a crime? Most people would offer condolences and reassure the public they want justice as well. Seemed like more of a threat to me.. "I have money, mess with me and I can retaliate any way necessary". What a clown.

The headman did.

The following is speculation. Once the spotlight centred upon his family members, he activated his political connections which went right to the top (factual), to get his nearest and dearest off the hook. I remember reading Mon was DNA tested, and he showed 70% match, which indicates that possibly Nomsod would be a 100% match. Whether this has been followed up, or was just inaccurate, or hearsay, I've no idea.

Once this crime became a political 'hot potato' there was little alternative to provide scapegoats, manufacture 'evidence' and hope that 'normal' conviction processes would suffice. In the past, it has been enough for a procession of police officers to extract a confession, and state that the accused did it, to get a court conviction.

In this case, however, the world-wide media interest hasn't faded away, and it is becoming more and more difficult for the prosecution to prove their assertions. I think, at best, they will persuade the Thai populace that their case was robust, and if they lost it, it wasn't their fault. Their DNA evidence was sound, but it was ruled inadmissible owing to a technicality (chain of custody) or some other obtuse reason. Anyway, they will appeal to ensure the accused continue to be incarcerated (without bail) and are not a threat to Thai tourism.

Sadly, I think that is what would happen, what must happen to save face.

Edited September 16, 2015 by stephenterry

[BritTim]

Michael Miller's Washington Post article has had some corrections (now being closer to an accurate summary) and has been reprinted in a number of other locations. It is actually pretty good now. See http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/rape-murder-and-a-deepening-mystery-on-a-tiny-tropical-island-1217914

[HUH]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

I had to bookmark this post for future entertainment, I split my sides laughing, got me going when Goldbuggy ventured to guess that Thailand had spent more in manpower and resources on this case than they normally do. The shopping trolley wheeled into court and the lack of budget for detailed crime scene photos skipped his assessment when making that guess

But then it got hysterical when he said this

"For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up."

Here's a pic of Nomsods Lawyer for you GoldBuggy

[Aj Mick]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

Do you agree that if the B2 are found guilty it will not bring closure for the families……..?

The families must surely know, along with most others, Thai and non Thai alike, that to find a pair of Burmese scapegoats guilty would be a miscarriage of justice almost as horrendous as the crime they currently stand accused of.

The only people it would bring closure to are the real culprits who have wriggled out of the frame in diverse corrupt ways (but have certainly not been cleared), their clan and cohorts, and RTP and a few big shots who have backed them.

The RTP manpower per 100,000 of population is on the high side of average (@344 in 2012 according to wikipeadia). They should certainly not be short of resources, and have access to the resources of other countries if only they would use them. They have acted totally unprofessionally throughout, and lost, "used up" or otherwise made unavailable key pieces of forensic material so they are not available for independent testing. If that does not suggest a cover up, then the attempts by the powers that be to limit press coverage, surely must.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Aj Mick

[smedly]

Also from this post the Defense Team doesn't seem to have a problem running "Duplicated Samples" so I was surprised, like most, why they refused to run tests on the DNA from Hannah.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

because there was no way to prove its authenticity and the whole dna trail is corrupted and lost, I suspect on purpose for the very reason of making authentic retests impossible, all that is left is a cop saying the dna matched which is completely unacceptable in any court or very basic international standard that I am aware of - it is blatantly obvious that the police did not want this evidence retested so it was gotten rid of and therefore is inadmissible as evidence - anything with a brain the size of a meat ball could work that out.

and how many times do you have to be told this - I know from me it is at least 20 times now

[PaPiPuPePo]

It's time for people think seriously about replying to two certain posters and in my opinion one has certainly shown his true colours .

He even questioned another poster by pm when asked to drop the subject yesterday for one day out of respect .

Thats the type of request no one should question.

Respect is a big thing and the kind words yesterday that were expressed by many posters shows there true feelings and emotions.

The posters that have just been here to defend every RTP posts really shows now their agenda is just one sided.

They have no other interest other that getting these threads closed down.

So many posters have been given holidays due to these people simply because that can't sit back and accept the insults the certain RTP defenders are throwing.

This is only my personal opinion, everybody has a right to post but don't let them get to you because going on past history on this thread and others the respectful posters have been given holidays and the RTP defenders remain.

It is time to completely ignore them and keep these threads open they are important .

99.9 percent of posters want the complete truth to come out it appears others don't .

I am sure many times info that has arisen on these threads has been very useful to the case.

The concept of a forum is a great one--a place for free and open debate.

I personally don't want to see anyone muzzled, banned, otherwise shut down, or even called a troll or shill if they are just expressing their honest opinion, even if it's abhorrent to others. In this case, if someone strongly believes the B2 did this crime, then I think that should be respected no matter how strongly one disagrees with it.

It's my personal opinion (FWIW, not much I know) that at least a couple of the members who appear to be sure the B2 are guilty are truly that, they believe what they write. If one or more is resistant to changing that opinion, it could well be due to their really believing it. There's a large segment of society that is constitutionally disposed to accepting whatever the authorities tell them, and they can't be blamed for that no matter how misguided they are.

Apologies if I seem patronising, sometimes it's worth spelling out the obvious.

So, that said.....to me it's become obvious with various members that they are NOT engaging in an honest debate, i.e. they don't believe what they write but are doing it to serve an ulterior agenda (or maybe just sow discord i.e. classic trolling). This becomes very clear when they are engaged in sincere debate by other members, but don't respond (because they can't) to the points raised, but instead obfuscate, misdirect, get ad hominem, etc.

I've long advocated the "ignore" function for such folks, as is being seconded (thirded, fourthed?) above. It's really the best solution for all IMO.

[sweatalot]

In the meanwhile, despicable influential southern families sleep soundly.

Even the PM is afraid of these people.

Carma will still come around knocking on the front door high up on the hill. This one will not go away soon even if these two innocent are released....

This is a spell on them

may they be tortured and haunted by ghosts until they confess kicking and shouting

and suffer their deserved punishment for everybody to see

an those who helped them and those evil posters, too

[PaPiPuPePo]

Also from this post the Defense Team doesn't seem to have a problem running "Duplicated Samples" so I was surprised, like most, why they refused to run tests on the DNA from Hannah.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

because there was no way to prove its authenticity and the whole dna trail is corrupted and lost, I suspect on purpose for the very reason of making authentic retests impossible, all that is left is a cop saying the dna matched which is completely unacceptable in any court or very basic international standard that I am aware of - it is blatantly obvious that the police did not want this evidence retested so it was gotten rid of and therefore is inadmissible as evidence - anything with a brain the size of a meat ball could work that out.

and how many times do you have to be told this - I know from me it is at least 20 times now

Hi Smed, appreciate your input on this case and think you're wasting your time with this member as I wrote just above. Just my 2¢.....

[BritTim]

The concept of a forum is a great one--a place for free and open debate.

I personally don't want to see anyone muzzled, banned, otherwise shut down, or even called a troll or shill if they are just expressing their honest opinion, even if it's abhorrent to others. In this case, if someone strongly believes the B2 did this crime, then I think that should be respected no matter how strongly one disagrees with it.

It's my personal opinion (FWIW, not much I know) that at least a couple of the members who appear to be sure the B2 are guilty are truly that, they believe what they write. If one or more is resistant to changing that opinion, it could well be due to their really believing it. There's a large segment of society that is constitutionally disposed to accepting whatever the authorities tell them, and they can't be blamed for that no matter how misguided they are.

Apologies if I seem patronising, sometimes it's worth spelling out the obvious.

So, that said.....to me it's become obvious with various members that they are NOT engaging in an honest debate, i.e. they don't believe what they write but are doing it to serve an ulterior agenda (or maybe just sow discord i.e. classic trolling). This becomes very clear when they are engaged in sincere debate by other members, but don't respond (because they can't) to the points raised, but instead obfuscate, misdirect, get ad hominem, etc.

I've long advocated the "ignore" function for such folks, as is being seconded (thirded, fourthed?) above. It's really the best solution for all IMO.

I am very much in sympathy with everything you write, with one caveat. Sometimes, messages like "the defense turned down the opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA", while just a cynical attempt to suggest doubt about the Burmese kids' innocence, can be convincing to those who do not follow the case closely. It is important in such cases to ensure such messages are put in proper context. The court of public opinion, while often flawed, is an important tool here for those who want justice for the scapegoats.

[PaPiPuPePo]

I am very much in sympathy with everything you write, with one caveat. Sometimes, messages like "the defense turned down the opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA", while just a cynical attempt to suggest doubt about the Burmese kids' innocence, can be convincing to those who do not follow the case closely. It is important in such cases to ensure such messages are put in proper context. The court of public opinion, while often flawed, is an important tool here for those who want justice for the scapegoats.

True, when misinformation is drummed out by "certain folks" it does pay to correct it, and even when it doesn't pay it can be hard to resist, indeed!

My own numerous slapping-downs of the misinformational "conspiracy theory/theorists" meme comes to mind.

Maybe I'm being selfish, shirking my duty to help with combating the BS shovelers, but there are only so many minutes and so much aggravation one can handle in a single day.

[phuketandsee]

Anybody hazard a guess why Dr. Pornthip didn't test the hoe for Hannah and David's DNA or did I miss that? Or maybe it will be presented at the upcoming sessions

[Wifflewaffle]

The RTP officers in charge of the Koh Tao investigation are nothing but a pile of incompetent and corrupt pig manure! After the rapid fire of cockups during the investigation, the victims' families stated that they were "satisfied with the investigation led by the RTP", what to me was the biggest insult to the victims in the whole case - carried out by the people who should care the most.

All my sympathies for the parents faded back then and haven't been reinstored ever since. The whole case and the legal prodeedings in court show how low the country has sunken, a signal to the rest of the world, reassuring each and everyone that money in LOS can buy anything.

For the sake of Hannah and David I prey every day that the case is blown wide open by some proceedings error, a CCTV video of the pier that pops up magically, or a former coward eye witness (Sean?) changing his mind and stating in public under oath who the true murderers and rapists are... Unless a miracle happens, I see no chance for the B2, since the ulcer of corruption spreads from bottom to top, obviously.

Forgot to mention: Shame also on any of David's and Hannah's "friends" who witnessed what happened back at AC bar but didn't tell. I hope you will receive ample punishment for that by simple Karma. May god have mercy on your souls!

Shame on Davids and Hannah's friends ? how do you know what they told the police ? they don't have to answer to you or social media you don't own them. the parents read the report and are entitled to there opinion, they also don't have to answer to you or anyone else.

David and Hannah's friends should receive ample punishment for what ? and these are the people who claim they have Hannah and davids best interest at heart what a joke.

to the people who like this post it just shows how low you are, yesterday you were all claiming to care for the victims families. time you all took a long hard look in the mirror.

lets see if this stays up then we can see who really is reporting people posts !